ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi everyone,
Edited and deleted.
If possible please delete the whole thread.
GreetingsLucas
It looks like this (without the black background):
*** EDIT by DIllen
I edited your post to keep you and Beoworld out of trouble.
Don't - and I repeat: "DON'T" (as in never ever do), print or otherwise put Bang & Olufsens registered trademark logo on to anything without the legal department of the companys written permission.You should also refrain from encouraging others to use B&Os logo as they wish.
Just words of advice.
Martin
Hi Martin,
Thanks for letting me know and deleting it.
Didnt think it was still an issue since the product is more then 40 Years old.That kind of stuff is sad for the DIY community but I guess there is nothing to do about it.
I removed all of it.
Mellops: Hi Martin, Thanks for letting me know and deleting it. Didnt think it was still an issue since the product is more then 40 Years old.That kind of stuff is sad for the DIY community but I guess there is nothing to do about it. I removed all of it.
Bang & Olufsens registered trademark logo is much older.And still registered.
Do you think it's sad that registered trademarks logos are protected?Put yourself in the manufacturers place and think of others using your logo on their own DIY-stuff, whatever it may look like.Give it a little thought.
Well I would differentiate between people using the logo to print it on stuff and make money of that and a community of people that put their time, work and money into products that otherwise would go to the trash, use the logo to restore them and thereby promoting a brand and usually becoming the biggest brand ambassador.
That's a kind of branding that you can't buy and is absolutely resistant to short term trends.
But I know this is an issue in all DIY communities.
Lucas
Mellops: Well I would differentiate between people using the logo to print it on stuff and make money of that and a community of people that put their time, work and money into products that otherwise would go to the trash, use the logo to restore them and thereby promoting a brand and usually becoming the biggest brand ambassador. That's a kind of branding that you can't buy and is absolutely resistant to short term trends. But I know this is an issue in all DIY communities. Lucas
How would you differentiate?That would mean, you would never be allowed to sell your Beogram again. Who's to check that?Not really sure, I would call it an issue either.It's the law.
To put it into perspective, f.e. see this Beomaster 1400M.Its DIY-owner wasn't happy with the way it looked, so instead of throwing it away, he decided to refinish it.He painted over the B&O logo on top of the frame.Do you think B&O would mind, if the owner had put a nice B&O logo back on it, indicating it was a finish they had approved?
It may come across as being somewhat in the way for skilled restorers, but I actually think the law is quite fair.
Dillen:Don't - and I repeat: "DON'T" (as in never ever do), print or otherwise put Bang & Olufsens registered trademark logo on to anything without the legal department of the companys written permission.You should also refrain from encouraging others to use B&Os logo as they wish.
I hope you believe me when I write I do respect your knowledge, your will to help and wisdom here on that forum.But I don't understand you when you provide answers like that one and the similar one on a recent thread on a beogram dust cover badge.
I do understand the generic legal aspect of your answer and I believe everybody do, but as the original poster explained it's not a matter or becoming rich by counterfeiting a trademark but more something like bringing back a faded or erased leterring on something original, loved and that people want to save from the trash. You, somewhere in the old forum, wrote once something like "i will always respect anyone trying to save old vintage B&O". The key word is "trying", we all don't have the save skills, budget or knowledge to making it the right way but we all try to. Of course the example you posted with the hand painted item screams that some people really must not try, but for all of us, it's a minority whatever how skilled they are (I know not for, you who have seen more freaking stuff than all of us together…). Anyway, if i understand well that poor OP just want his lettering back and share his solution or another one a tiny badge on his cover back. And the only answer they got is "It's against the law"!Come on Martin, Beoworld is more than that.
If that's really that "against the law", should I remove all the post with recreated B&O papers? Should all the threads showing catalogs or brochure pages be as well? Should the "B&O cover art" thread be deleted?Should all the DIY mods be also removed, because if I'm not too much mistaken it's even worse than copying the logo trademark, it's reverse engeniering or enginering piracy or something like that, no? Talking about that, are we sure that the galaxy of people providing paid services for B&O enthusiasts have the right permission from the brand to offer their products?
We are all enthusiasts here, 95% of the members here have nothing to sell, they just have a lot to share after they came once to ask for something.I myself have received a lot from people I don't even know and don't even knows me. I try to forward the elevator as much as I can and often with what I can do, copies of labels, manuals, letterings, catalogs. Am I a bandit for that and are the (few) people who ask me to recreate any of them for their private use, thieves?Did you see any of the multiples website providing service manuals being closed by B&O, including the paying ones?
I dont beleive B&O cares much about some fellow collector's printing his logo on inkjet stickers to refurbish items long ago abandoned.They have more to care about those who counterfeit their product at industrial scale.
I think you've been to harsh on that one, and I wanted to tell this to you.
Respectfully and sincerely,
M.
matador43: Dillen:Don't - and I repeat: "DON'T" (as in never ever do), print or otherwise put Bang & Olufsens registered trademark logo on to anything without the legal department of the companys written permission.You should also refrain from encouraging others to use B&Os logo as they wish. Hi Martin, I hope you believe me when I write I do respect your knowledge, your will to help and wisdom here on that forum.But I don't understand you when you provide answers like that one and the similar one on a recent thread on a beogram dust cover badge. I do understand the generic legal aspect of your answer and I believe everybody do, but as the original poster explained it's not a matter or becoming rich by counterfeiting a trademark but more something like bringing back a faded or erased leterring on something original, loved and that people want to save from the trash. You, somewhere in the old forum, wrote once something like "i will always respect anyone trying to save old vintage B&O". The key word is "trying", we all don't have the save skills, budget or knowledge to making it the right way but we all try to. Of course the example you posted with the hand painted item screams that some people really must not try, but for all of us, it's a minority whatever how skilled they are (I know not for, you who have seen more freaking stuff than all of us together…). Anyway, if i understand well that poor OP just want his lettering back and share his solution or another one a tiny badge on his cover back. And the only answer they got is "It's against the law"!Come on Martin, Beoworld is more than that. If that's really that "against the law", should I remove all the post with recreated B&O papers? Should all the threads showing catalogs or brochure pages be as well? Should the "B&O cover art" thread be deleted?Should all the DIY mods be also removed, because if I'm not too much mistaken it's even worse than copying the logo trademark, it's reverse engeniering or enginering piracy or something like that, no? Talking about that, are we sure that the galaxy of people providing paid services for B&O enthusiasts have the right permission from the brand to offer their products? We are all enthusiasts here, 95% of the members here have nothing to sell, they just have a lot to share after they came once to ask for something.I myself have received a lot from people I don't even know and don't even knows me. I try to forward the elevator as much as I can and often with what I can do, copies of labels, manuals, letterings, catalogs. Am I a bandit for that and are the (few) people who ask me to recreate any of them for their private use, thieves?Did you see any of the multiples website providing service manuals being closed by B&O, including the paying ones? I dont beleive B&O cares much about some fellow collector's printing his logo on inkjet stickers to refurbish items long ago abandoned.They have more to care about those who counterfeit their product at industrial scale. I think you've been to harsh on that one, and I wanted to tell this to you. Respectfully and sincerely, M.
Harsh, perhaps.But for a reason.I am simply giving my best advice, - with this as I have done with many other things.I have read the trademark laws, and I saw and heard others run into problems.
matador43: "Come on Martin, Beoworld is more than that."
"Come on Martin, Beoworld is more than that."
Beoworld is a lot of things, but it's not above the law, and as a moderator of this Bang & Olufsen enthusiast forum, Ishall be the last to tell you not to abide by the law, particularly when it comes to a possible trademark infringement.Just as I warn people against shorting speaker outputs, messing with high voltages etc.
A highly regarded Beoworld member once decided to have his Beovox 2500 cubes refurbished.They were taken apart, innards serviced, cabinets cleaned, sanded and painted back the original dark grey color.They looked fantastic.The owner then asked B&O if he could put the small white B&O logo back on to the cabinets.The answer from B&O was a clear "NO!""- Only B&O puts B&Os logo on things".
Selling homemade items bearing someone elses registered trademark logo can effectively put you out of business.
I have seen and heard this happen and I, for one, would be disappointed if I bought something carrying a B&O logo only to find out it was homepainted, or even entirely homemade.
Of course, you are free to take photos of catalogues and products, present the items for sale etc., and youcan glue printed photos of everything where you like, just don't attempt to make it look authentic and don't list it for sale as the real thing if it isn't.(And don't ever use the insignia of the royal danish family (the crown) - that's one thing you don't want to mess with, trust me).
If you are in doubt whether the manuals you are reproducing are protected, I suggest you look for copyright notices,and it's always a good idea to ask B&O if it's OK to make them and sell them.The older service manuals had clear markings on the front page, indicating that they were Bang & Olufsens property, - to be returned to B&O when no longer needed.
I wouldn't want to be messing with anything trademark or copyright wise.The law protects the designers and manufaturers etc. and it is fairly clear.If you feel it's open for interpretation, be my guest.
What you choose to do, and what rules and laws you feel are important enough for you to abide with and which are not, is entirely up to you.I am merely sharing experience and knowledge.Consider it if you care.Don't if you don't.But don't expect a trademark owner not to care, just because you or others don't.Just saying.
All right,
We both made our point.
Thanks for answering.