ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hello Beoworld
I am wondering if it would be possible to find a newer motherboard to install the BM5/BS5 on. In the end it is just a modified embedded Windows XP SP2, updated to SP3?
The challenge is with the modified bios and bios serial, but maybe we can find a newer, faster and more reliable Via or another board with a similar bios structure?
Another challenge is to find a board with the same input/output connectors, or to make/find adapters that fit the inputs/outputs on the ML-PL-module.
Isn't i mostly build on standard components and software?
Have a nice day.
Rendboell
You could even dream about loading the embedded Windows XP into a virtual machine on a small, fast, reliable and energy efficient modern PC.
Then you will have an all in one media centre, nas server and high quality audio system, which could be the engine behind a range of future B&O products.
This would bring B&O back to the vision from the last century with an all compassing multiroom system with a multiple of hardware configurations.
From middle of the road but high quality products to all consumers to very high quality and complex AV systems for the more wanting consumers.
I am certainly not a computer expert, but maybe we have PC/Windows experts in the Beoworld forum, who are willing to take up the challenge?
It could even be interesting for B&O to support such an "open source" project to engage the community in developing a more viable digital B&O system?
Maybe I am just a dreamer, but I would like to see B&O being the frontrunner of the audio industry as it was in the 70's, 80's and 90's.
Actually it should not be difficult to engage a very loyal Beoworld community.
Jens Rendboell:I am wondering if it would be possible to find a newer motherboard to install the BM5/BS5 on. In the end it is just a modified embedded Windows XP SP2, updated to SP3?
But wouldn't it be much nicer if a new Core like device (with newest platform) would be developed with connection options to the BS5/BS5e UI unit (and of course the UI unit would be made available again). I think, despite the original BS5 problems, the look and feel and operation of this devices are still some of the best within streaming/digital media.
just an idea
or just develop a BS5 like new streamer.......
I have thought about this also, something like a Raspberry Pi inside a BS5/BS5E.
The Beocreate project could be reactivated for this. (beocreate.bang-olufsen.com hifiberry.com)
Raspberry's are supported for many years to come
Beosound 5 Encore, Beolab 3, Beolab 11, Beosound Balance Non GVA, H9i
I asked Beocreate on twitter and I got the following answer;
Hi Gerard, thanks for your interest in a remastered Beosound 5! We’ve experimented with this and it’s definitely in the realm of possibility, however, there are currently no plans in place. We’ll let let you know if/when that changes! // Tuomas/B&O
I would buy one
Gaea: I asked Beocreate on twitter and I got the following answer; Hi Gerard, thanks for your interest in a remastered Beosound 5! We’ve experimented with this and it’s definitely in the realm of possibility, however, there are currently no plans in place. We’ll let let you know if/when that changes! // Tuomas/B&O
It's me who replied to you. Hello!
I'll just elaborate a bit on what I said there. Last year I purchased a BM5 + BS5 combo with the intention of connecting it to a Raspberry Pi and recreating/reimagining the original user interface on top of the Beocreate platform. It turns out to be totally possible, and I made a fair bit of progress on it – however, it was in the end a personal side project for which I was unable to devote all the time and effort I would've wanted. Some day I will resurrect it one way or another, because Beosound 5 is such a unique piece of hardware that deserves to be carried forward.
— Tuomas | Bang & Olufsen | Bang & Olufsen Create
Hi Tuomas,
Thanks for the answer
It disturbs me a lot an internet connected device that had its last update in 2011, that's 10 years.
Although my BS5 encore works fine, it brings the rest of my network in jepardy lacking security updates.
It would be a great project to make the BS5 modern and sustainable, it deserves it.
A port of the old interface to a new (and reliable!) hard- and softwareplatform would be great! That way it would be save to have the Beomaster 5 connected to the internet for internet radio streaming.
A highly commercial available like the Raspberry Pi would secure spare part availability. Did somebody try to extract the B&O software from the Beomaster and install it to a more modern Windows embedded system? Does it run on Windows 8.1 or 10? Hopefully the embedded version of Windows 10 (if it exists) doesn't force you with automatic updates and restarts all over the time :)
As posted on my previous thread:
https://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/49818.aspx
I've been looking into the feasibility of producing a fully open source hardware/software solution for the Beomaster/Beosound 5... My Beosound 5 is faulty...
For me, I'd be very interested in designing/building custom hardware to replace the original hardware in the Beosound 5, as well as the Beomaster. I've lots of experience with designing and building Arduino-based hardware and firmware.
Thus far - I've looked at the hardware that reads the positions of the dials on the Beosound. It's just a set of optical sensors. I think it would be relatively easy to design the hardware to work with them. The LCD display just needs an LVDS signal and an inverter. It may even be possible to drive the original inverter. I'd really like to design everything from scratch so it can be supported for the future.
Then the Beomaster could be replaced by a Raspberry Pi or similar. As far as the B&O MOTS functionality, I also have experience with AI and machine learning. The possibilities are endless! Suggest tracks based on my previous listening history, play whole symphonies/albums rather than single tracks (if I seem to prefer that), etc., etc.
How about it? Would anyone be willing to join me on an open source project?
You'd need PCB/electronics design and/or Arduino programming experience...
Thanks!
Andrew
I would also like to work on a new software and eventually a new hardware setup to feed the BM5 DSP/DAC ML-PL-module to make the BS5/BM5 future proof.
Can we feed the ML-PL-Module and DSP/DAC with a cleaner signal by installing Windows XP SP3/4 with a high quality Windows XP audio driver or maybe even a higher quality soundcard with optical out to feed the BM5 ML-PL-module and DSP/DAC? Windows XP SP4: https://msfn.org/board/topic/171171-introducing-unofficial-windows-xp-sp4/
I believe this is possible, because I think the BS5 and media controller software is independent of the Windows XP audio engine and MOTS is making its calculations on the ML-PL-module.
Today, I actually managed to download the latest Beomaster 5 MK1 Update version 07.04.01.1945 from the B&O download page for the Beomaster 5 software update: http://cdn.portal.beo.com/ftp/BeoMaster5/Mk1/Prod/SWService/BeoMaster5_704011945.exe
Would it be possible to install the BM5 software on a Windows 10 compatible motherboard with LVDS output to the BS5 and DVI/HDMI output to a LCD panel?
Or even a Rasperry Pi setup with Windows 10 like this: https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/windows-10-on-arm-is-running-on-raspberry-pi-4-and-so-much-faster-than-pi-3
Sample / bit rate specifications of the BM5 DSP / DAC:
(1) Micronas MAS3530H DSP: Outputs 32, 44.1, 48 kHz. Can't find bit or sample rate supported, but the specs says S/PDIF PCM output or loop-through for all inputs. Do the BM5 Beolab 5 setup allow/provide 24/192 spdif audio output to the Beolab 5?
(2) Analog Devices AD1852 DAC: Accepts 16, 18, 20 and 24-bit, as well as 32, 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96 and 192 kHz.
So if we could bypass the Windows XP Audio Engine or install a 24/192 audio driver, then maybe the DSP/DAC supports 24/192 loop-/pass-through to the AD1852 24/192 DAC?
One of these days, I will make a try to use my old Hercules 1612FW 24/96 to feed the BM5 DSP/DAC.
Best regards,
Hi Carolpa & Andrew,
Yes, the Beosound 5 (BS5) is very nice, like having a modern jukebox right at hand and a nice user interface with the wheel and cover flow. In my opinion much better than various pc / mobile phone / ipad implementations. And not to forget, very stylish :-)
I also like the Beomaster 5 (BM5), which I rate as a high quality audio interface with a pretty good DSP/DAC and pre-amp. In many respects better than my RME Fireface 800 (FF800), but unfortunately with terrible sample rate conversion done by Windows XP for samples rates higher than 44.1.
I can make this comparison, because in my BM5 I have replaced a failed motherboard with a standard Via Epia Ex 1500 MHz board with optical output. In the original implementation the optical out audio line is only feeding the ML-PL-module. In my implementation the optical out audio line is feeding both the optical spdif output and the ML-PL-module (DSP/DAC).
This is also why I know that Windows XP is doing the conversion and feeding the ML-PL-module and DSP/DAC, as the optical out signal I get to the FF800 is converted to 44.1.
I clearly hear distortion with sample rates higher than 44.1, when I compare the optical out from the BM5 with the optical out from my computer to the FF800.
Don't let XP do the conversion, but always convert higher sampled (48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192) audio to 44.1 kHz with Adobe Audition for best practice audio conversion: https://helpx.adobe.com/in/audition/using/converting-sample-types.html.
The BM5 DSP/DAC has a tendency to sound metallic / shrill with bad mastered audio, whereas the FF800 sounds softer with identical audio inputs from Windows XP (optical out).
I also believe I hear some distortion with sample rates at 44.1, clearly not as much as with higher sample rates, but still noticeable, especially on (bad) recordings with high pitched audio. Again I think the Windows XP audio driver is the issue.
By the way, remember to ground the BM5 to earth, otherwise you will most likely get distortion / shrill sound. Put a thick wire (AWG 16, 1.5 mm2) from the BM5 chassis to earth and to the chassis of all your equipment (pc, amps, beolabs, etc.). I don't know, but I think you can connect to the shield of the master link / power link. Therefore, always buy cables with a thick shield, so you don't have to run ground wires to all your equipment.
Hi All,
An update! I've been exploring things for a bit more. I've managed to produce a single working Beosound 5 from two broken ones, so now I can see how the system works as designed by B&O!
As I dig more into it I can see some of the cleverness that B&O built into the system. I'm intrigued by the separate DSP, etc., on board. I'm now less inclined to redesign the Beosound 5, at least in the first instance!
I replaced the motherboard on the BM5 with a VIA EPX15000G - after replacing some dodgy capacitors on the board and modifying the SPDIF.
I'll continue to think about it, but my premise would be to use Linux as the OS and redevelop the software using QT, which I have experience with.
In the meantime, I'm after more BS 5s to play with! I'm actually planning to use one as the in-car interface in my classic car...
I can't understand why the BM5 is not grounded from the factory. I've just got a small electric shock from the BS5, while touching my grounded Mac. Even my Beolab 5's are not grounded... I guess I don't understand enough about the decision-making processes at B&O. I'm also surprised that it's not grounded as the BM5 is a metal case...
I learnt this week that the guys from opus.org (worst website I have seen lately...) are working on a new "Master" and wrote code etc.
Here is a teaser that was sent to me...
24-BIT sound, new GUI, new Beomaster/Hardware.
Cannot answer any questions, sorry.
Ralf
Living Room: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-2 (Center), Beolab 9 (Fronts), Beolab 8000 (Rears), no Subwoofer. Screen: Sony KD-85XH9096Dining Room: Beosound Essence MK II with Beolab 4000 on stands, fed by Amazon Echo Show 8Home Cinema: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-4 (Center), Beolab 1 (Fronts), Beolab 4000 (Rears). Projector: Sony VPL-HW55Home Office: Beosystem 3, Beolab 7-4, Beolab 5000, Screen: Sony KD-55XH9005 on Beovision 7-40 stand, ML to Beosound 9000 MK3 and Beosound 5/Beomaster 5 (1 TB SSD version)Bedroom: Sony KD-65XH9077, Beosound Essence MK II with Beolab 6002 and Beolab 11 (all white, wall-mounted)
In storage: Beolab 5000/Beomaster 5000 (1960s).
Wow! Interesting... Thanks for the info. I agree. Their website tells you nothing and the zooming thing is, um... indescribable.
From that screenshot, it's difficult to see how things will work, but it doesn't look like they're planning to use the "laser-pointer" functionality of the mode selector on the Beosound. In my opinion, that's one of the funkiest/best parts of the user interface and it would be a shame not to have it any more.
The Beosound is an interesting fusion of square and circular. Its user-experience design was so innovative in many areas, but lacking in others. If I get some time, I'd like to prototype something that takes the best from B&O's UI, but moves it on significantly.
A new Beomaster or a Beomaster upgrade maybe on a more secure operating system than windows is good news. With the rise of ransomware encrypting whole company IT infracstructures to blackmail them, there shouldn't be an old windows system connected to the internet... I strongly hope OPUS gets some serious designers for the user interface, too... the current form looks very "simple" to be polite. It doesn't fit the Beosound 5 design and looks misplaced. Hopefully it's just because of prototyping and they overhall it as soon as the technological part works 101% :-)
Gaea: Hi Tuomas, Thanks for the answer It disturbs me a lot an internet connected device that had its last update in 2011, that's 10 years. Although my BS5 encore works fine, it brings the rest of my network in jepardy lacking security updates. It would be a great project to make the BS5 modern and sustainable, it deserves it.
You could always mitigate possible security issues by using VLANs and Firewall Rules to segregate it.
Bw789: You could always mitigate possible security issues by using VLANs and Firewall Rules to segregate it.
That's exactly what I did, it is via wifi connected to my guest-network.
Just my NAS isn't reachable for the BS5E anymore, until I plug the lan cable again for the purpose of DNLA music.