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This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hello Everyone.
I am decorating my new home and am thinking to get a pair of speaker....
I am chooseing between the beolab 20 + core or beolab 28. and the beolab 28 is about 20% more expensive then the Beolab 20+ core set.
I will put it in a room which is only 14sqm with a sofa and tv in it.
I will watch movie, play game and listen music in this room.
A friend of mine told me 20 has a better sound quality than 28, but i also heard from others that 28 is better than 20, so I am really confused.
Can anyone give me a suggestion which is a better choice?
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
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Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
Many claim the 28’s bass performance is on par with the 20’s.
if Geoff were to read this, I’d love for him to explain how he managed that, given the area of the 20’s 10” driver is significantly greater than the area of the 28’s 6.5” driver. :)
Cheers!
Currently: BeoLab 17, BeoLab 18, BeoSound Core, Beosound Level, Beosound A1 2nd Gen, BeoPlay S8 Connection Hub, Halo, Essence Remote
Previously: BeoSound 1 non-GVA
First of all the price difference seem small.
Beolab 20 goes for 50.000DKK for dealer demo units incl. 2 year warranty. And less if you bargain with them.
Beolab 28 starts at 80.000DK before discounts or wooden front covers.
So it sounds like your deal on the Beolab 20s is bad or that you have a really good deal on the Beolab 28s.
If those prices stand I would probably go with the Beolab 28s regardless of what my reasonings below.
The Beolab 20 will make your sofa vibrate which won't happen with the Beolab 28. So if you consider movies very important then you should consider the Beolab 20, as there bass driver is capable of moving much more air. With the Beolab 28 it will sound good, but with the Beolab 20 it will sound and feel good. For some people that is an important part of movie watching. The 20s will also outperform the 28s on bass if you play very loud bass heavy music.
Many people prefer the sound signature of the 28s compared to the 20. There is a very nicely integrated balance between the highs, mids and lows. They just sound good out of the box, or with very little tuning in the app. And if you don't max out the volume on the 28s they do sound very good, and more balanced than the 20s. Furthermore the technology is newer, they have more B&O moving magic, and they work without any external boxes or TV. For everything else than serious movie watching I would choose the Beolab 28s over the Beolab 20s.
Beovision Eclipse gen2 (GX) w/ floorstand, Beolab 14.2, 4 speaker Shape and ATV4/Chromecast.
Beoplay A9mk4 GVA, Beosound 1 GVA, H2, H3, H8, E6, Beoplay EQ
Hi Mikael,
From speakers to TV:s. I saw that You have an beovision eclipse 2nd generation with LG:s GX-screen.
I ordered an Eclipse last week 2nd generation with G1-screen.
Are You happy with your Eclipse and does it work flawless without any software bugs?
Best RegardsMartin
Sweden
NEW! Beovision Eclipse 65 2nd generation (G1) with floorstand (from STB Brackets), Beolab 50 front, Beolab 3 rear, 2 x Beoplay A6 linkrooms, 2xBeoremote one BT, Beosound 9000 Mark III (sw 3.4), Beosound 5 (for DLNA only), Philips Hue (all lights in the home), Oppo UDP-203, Apple TV 4K (2021 model). Beoremote HALO, 3xBeoplay Charging pad, Beoplay M5
Thank you Michael.
I think i will just go wiz the Beolab 28.
I have a question, I am really confused. If i don't buy a B&O TV, how do I connect beolab 28 to a Samsung TV, the info I got from the dealer here is different to what I hear from Friend.
Can i just connect it direct with the power link line? any suggestion?
Thank you~!
You can use specific cables from Steve and SoundsHeavenly, a forum sponsor--he can help you. Alternatively, you can use an S8 Connection Hub. And you can also get a third-party WISA box.
Those are three ways to connect the speakers to a Samsung TV. I hope that helps.
Thank you for your quick reply.
Is the S8 Connection Hub same as the beosound core?
Thx for your help~!
Curly: Many claim the 28’s bass performance is on par with the 20’s. if Geoff were to read this, I’d love for him to explain how he managed that, given the area of the 20’s 10” driver is significantly greater than the area of the 28’s 6.5” driver. :) Cheers!
Hi,
This is an easy one to explain.
First, the analogy:
Consider two cars, driving side-by-side on the highway. Both are going 100 km/h. One is a 2011 Honda Civic (my car) and the other is a 2021 Bugatti Chiron (not my car). These two cars have very different capabilities, but, at this moment in the example, they're both going exactly the same speed.
Of course, if both drivers put their foot down at the same time, the two cars will respond differently - one will accelerate faster than the other, and will reach a higher top speed.
Now to loudspeakers:
Any loudspeaker of any size can produce any frequency in the audio range. However, the LEVEL at which they can produce that frequency changes with the driver dimensions and excursion.
For example, a 1" tweeter can move in and out 20 times per second, therefore it can produce audio at 20 Hz. However, it can't move very far, so it won't be very loud. Similarly, a large woofer can (in theory) move 20,000 times per second - but if you push it too hard, then the mass of the woofer will be hard to vibrate, and all you'll do is to heat up the voice coil.
So, generally speaking, with the right filtering and enough amplifier power: any loudspeaker can produce any frequency range (for a little while), depending on the level.
This also means that, at a low-enough listening level (which might mean "a normal listening level"), a 6.5" woofer and a 10" woofer will both produce the same output (just like the two cars both going 100 km/h). It's only when you start turning up the volume* that a difference starts occurring - the 10" woofer can play low frequencies louder than the 6.5" woofer.
This question has occurred before - some people were confused looking at the "frequency range" specifications that the Beolab 12-1 (with 1 woofer) goes lower than the 12-2 (with 2 woofers). This is true because of the level at which the measurement is done. Turn up the level, and you'll get a different answer.
For a more detailed explanation of this question, check out this posting:
https://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/2013/12/13/bo-tech-what-are-subwoofers-really-for/
Cheers
-Geoff
* "turning up the volume" is not really enough information in that sentence. You also have to be playing music with low-frequency content that was mastered at a high-enough level. If you're listening to a quiet recording of solo flute, then "turning up the volume" won't do much to reveal differences in two woofers...
Hi Again,
I just had a look at the specifications of both the Beolab 20 and the Beolab 28 on the Bang & Olufsen website. The numbers there tell you the same thing as what I just wrote in "longhand"
The maximum sound pressure outputs of both loudspeakers are almost identical:
This is because this number is largely the result of the midrange output - and loudspeakers with roughly the same midrange and roughly the same peak power will result in the same maximum output level.
The Frequency Ranges of the two loudspeakers show the lower roll-off of the Beolab 20:
For all practical purposes, 23.6 kHz and 23 kHz are the same (a difference of about 0.45 of a semitone, if you're a musician). However, 19.5 Hz is considerably lower than 27 Hz (between 5 and 6 semitones lower). On the other hand, those numbers are specified to be where the magnitude response crosses a line 10 dB below the average level between 200 Hz and 2 kHz - so it's already very quiet relative to the mids. (See this posting where I explain the details of how B&O does Frequency Range measurements)
The Bass Capability is the one that really highlights the difference:
This tells you that, in the very low end, the Beolab 20 can play 9 dB louder than the Beolab 28 (this is a lot... 2.8 times louder, actually.). This does not mean that it is always 9 dB louder - it isn't... That would be dumb. It means that if you're playing a signal that has low-end, and it's mastered to be loud, and you turn up the volume to maximum, the Beolab 28 will not play the signal as loudly as the Beolab 20. However, as I said in the previous entry, this might happen at a frequency lower than or a level higher than anything you find to be normal / useful...
Cheers-geoff
Martin: Are You happy with your Eclipse and does it work flawless without any software bugs?
We are very happy with our Eclipse 2. gen. It's about 1 year old now, and the bugs have been few and minor.
I've had a few times where the motor stand for some reason bangs into the wall. Very time in in connection with a update for the LG tv. So now I'm just aware when a power up the TV after an update. Haven't been an issue lately, but the floor stand has also gotten updates since so it might be fixed.
This week I had the volume go up and down by it self a few times during a movie. Apparently that is connected to the lastest LG update, and should be fixed soon. But that is only 1 time during many hours of use since the last update.
In day to day use we are more than happy, and haven't for a single second regretted buying the TV.
The G1 would had some extra brightness to the display, but otherwise there is not much difference.
Thank you for being so generous with your time and knowledge, Geoff. It’s such a cool thing to have you on the forum!
Thank you for answering my question.
Curly:Thank you for being so generous with your time and knowledge, Geoff. It’s such a cool thing to have you on the forum! Thank you for answering my question. Currently: BeoLab 17, BeoLab 18, BeoSound Core, Beosound Level, Beosound A1 2nd Gen, BeoPlay S8 Connection Hub, Essence Remote Previously: BeoSound 1 non-GVA
Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5
I listened to both once at a visit of my dealer.
To me the Beolab 20 is much better.
I think it has to do with the fact that it is an closed 3 way system so that the bass is much more controlled.
The mid range is more detailed.
More depth in the complex
For tv sound the Beolab 28 is fine but for music the Beolab 20 beats the 28 by far.
Off course this is just a matter of opinoin
My beosound 2 has a 6in woofer just like the 28. So i suppose at low volumes they will sound similar- that ok I like the sound very much.
My conclusion on having lab 20 and having 28 on trial is that the 20s were are far better speaker, more detailed, more cabinet volume, bigger drivers- to me it was no contest.
Just to clarify one small point--the BeoSound 2 has the "old gen" 5.25" driver while the BL28 has the "new gen", ultra-long-throw 6.5" driver. Just like the BL18 has the "old gen" 4" drivers while the Stage has the "new gen", ULT 4" drivers.
I haven't heard either Stage of BL28 but there is probably a significant difference in comparing those drivers to the previous gen--from what everyone says about the sound performance of the new products.
Sorry - but I have to break in again with a couple of points...
Beolab "X" and Beolab "Y" are different loudspeakers that sound different at different listening levels for many reasons.
If you like one more than the other (or the other more than the one), it can be for many individual aspects, or some interaction between those things. Jumping to conclusions about specifics of hardware (e.g. woofer diameters, or 2-way vs 3-way, or wires made of unobtanium, or power amplifier specs, or anything else) makes for an busy discussion, but is probably incorrect, since it leaves out more important things like room placement, setup, the particular song that you listened to, and what kind of mood you were in when you did the comparison - and the interaction of all of those things and more.
It would be like comparing two bottles of wine, and jumping to the conclusion that you prefer one more than the other because it's shiraz instead of merlot, or Italian instead of French, or served at 17º instead of 18º, or in a specific shape of glass instead of another specific shape of glass - and not realising that it's because of all of those things, and/or possibly something else instead / as well.
A second important note:There was a really good listening test done (and independently repeated by other researchers) where the subjects (professionals and neophytes) were asked to rate various aspects of two different competing sound systems, including their preference (I know this, because I was one of the subjects). After analysis, it was proven that the answers had an over 99% correlation with the brand name on the systems - and that this swamped all other differences. (Both systems were identical in all controllable aspects other than the brand name - and the brands were randomised from subject to subject.)
In other words, if you know what you're listening to, you can't even trust your own opinion. This is why we hide things behind curtains when we're evaluating them - if one of my colleagues wants to have my opinion about a loudspeaker or any audio device, the main rule is that I CANNOT know anything about that device, because my eyes tell my ears what they hear.
Finally:Don't confuse "I like this more than I like that" with "this is better than that". For example, it would be silly to say "my cup of coffee is much better than my wife's cup of coffee; she doesn't put nearly enough sugar in it." Just because I think my coffee's better doesn't mean that it is better for anyone other than me.
This is why I don't trust online reviews of anything - especially from random "customers" (translation: bots).
I am luthier making mainly lutes but also guitars and violins, and what Geoff has written is pretty much the same for musical instruments and players responses. I have had customers who are convinced the instrument is better after playing it for just ten minutes, no doubt their ability to play it has improved in ten minutes, but who knows whether the instrument has improved in that time (I don't think so), it may be I put just the right number of sugars in their coffee ! However, the experience the player is having is the most important thing actually, so I try to respond to that the best I can. A violin maker - Joseph Curtin has done extensive blind fold tests with top players and audiences in concert halls comparing Stradivari violins with modern violins next to each other and often the new instrument is preferred though it is sometimes the Strad.
Even though I am aware of all this I am still very capable of being fooled. I love my Beolab 9's but I keep thinking about the 28's, I will go listen to them sometime and go with how I experience them personally !
Thanks for that excellent explanation, Geoff. I think that's one of the reasons I like B&O equipment - all the products work well, and have a distinctive look while doing it, within their design limits. It seems to be part of the design DNA for some time because I feel confident in my purchases as long as my expectations are reasonable for my use case. I have not been disappointed, and I try to ensure I don't try to overdrive anything beyond it's limits. I am just as satisfied with my C75 speakers in my bathroom as my Beloab Pentas, and my P2. They all sound great in their expected usage environment.
So the choice of Beolab 20 or Beolab 28 can be based on the intended use and the design, trust in the design, and listen in the showroom to verify, then make the purchase that suits your desires. Thanks for your part in all that.
Dom
2x BeoSystem 3, BeoSystem 5000, BeoSystem 6500, 2x BeoMaster 7000, 2 pair of BeoLab Penta mk2, AV 7000, Beolab 4000, BeoSound 4000, Playmaker, BeoLab 2500, S-45, S-45.2, RL-140, CX-50, C-75, 3x CX-100, 3x MCL2 link rooms, 3x Beolab 2000, M3, P2, Earset, A8 earphones, A3, 2x 4001 relay, H3, H3 ANC, H6, 2014 Audi S5 with B&O sound, and ambio