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Hi I'm looking for some advice. I want to recap my speakers. I just got them and I love them, but the caps are 40ish years old. Does anyone know which capacitors I should buy? Any recommendations for particular brands/models? Thanks in advance.
Here:https://www.beoparts-shop.com/product/capacitor-kit-beovox-s45-s45-2/
Martin
I’ve done successful modifications to Beolab 4000, 6000 MK2 and Beolab 1. In the current audiophile hifi world; here are the most prestigious ‘electrolytic capacitors’ numbered in order below (best ones first)…
1) BLACK GATE (discontinued but old stock still available)
2) AUDIO NOTE KAISEI ((second best))
3) ELNA SILMIC II ((third best))
4) NICHICON MUSE NON POLAR
5) NICHICON KZ
6) NICHICON FINE GOLD
Thanks for your input, but none of those would be any good in Beovox S45-2.Tougher components are needed here, in order to handle the power from the amplifier output.The ones I link to above are custom produced for Beoparts-shop by one of the worlds largest component manufacturers, specificallyto match the specs of the original components (when they were new) as close as possible. Not available elsewhere.
Ok I did not realise that the capacitors required were FILM CAPACITORS. By mistake I listed the best ELECTROLYTIC CAPACITORS. The capacitor manufacturer shown in your link are ‘Film Capacitors’ manufactured by ROE which is an average sounding brand.
The World’s finest film capacitors are listed in order below (extremely durable)…
1) DUELUND CAST COPPER/SILVER ((state of the art in audiophile circles))
2) MUNDORF SUPREME SILVER OIL
3) V-CAP
4) JUPITER COPPER
5) SONICAP
Below is a good supplier…
https://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/capacitors.html
If you want I can point you to an online audio forum which compares most of the film caps on the market (grading them for performance).
Wingnut, my suggestion for you would be to buy the new circuit boards provided in Dillon’s link. Then swap the all the gold colour ROE film capacitors for equivalent value Sonicaps or Mundorf Supreme/Mcap.
Del16: Ok I did not realise that the capacitors required were FILM CAPACITORS. By mistake I listed the best ELECTROLYTIC CAPACITORS. The capacitor manufacturer shown in your link are ‘Film Capacitors’ manufactured by ROE which is an average sounding brand. The World’s finest film capacitors are listed in order below (extremely durable)… 1) DUELUND CAST COPPER/SILVER ((state of the art in audiophile circles)) 2) MUNDORF SUPREME SILVER OIL 3) V-CAP 4) JUPITER COPPER 5) SONICAP Below is a good supplier… https://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/capacitors.html If you want I can point you to an online audio forum which compares most of the film caps on the market (grading them for performance).
Sorry - what?The link I provided are for electrolytics. That's what the filters (and speaker drivers) were constructed for.And they are certainly neither Roederstein nor average.They are custom produced for this exact purpose.Not available anywhere else.
Yes, you can buy capacitors costing a fortune.But please only do it if you think, it will make you sleep better at night.You could also glue a photo of Einstein under your speakers.Neither would make any sense in Beovox S45-2, really.- Or in most other Beovox models for that matter.
And it's not a question of film capacitors or electrolytics.It's a question of understanding, that Beovox S45-2 is not an active speaker.All filtering is done AFTER the power amplifier.- Not before, as in the active (Beolab) models you list.
Del16: Wingnut, my suggestion for you would be to buy the new circuit boards provided in Dillon’s link. Then swap the all the gold colour ROE film capacitors for equivalent value Sonicaps or Mundorf Supreme/Mcap.
Which boards?Did you read the description at all?
Sorry, but the content of your replies and the fact that you verified your own reply as being the answer (which it certainly isn't, so I've removed it) makes me wonder.
Hi Dillen. I apologise for not being clearer with my words. Here is the answer to all of your questions and statements:-
1) The photo of the circuit board in your link to the beopart store contains 9 gold colour Film Capacitors (NO ELECTROLYTICS ARE VISIBLE ON THAT BOARD).
2) Three of the gold caps have a Roederstein (ROE) badge on them. Therefore I assumed that the rest of them are also Roederstein.
3) It is a fact that a ‘film capacitor’ has a single tinned lead protruding from each end (just like the ones shown in the photo).
4) An Electrolytic Capacitor has two leads protruding from the same end (none are visible on that board).
5) A good value replacement would be SoniCCap Platinum film caps (CHEAP at around $3 to $6 each).
6) Upgrading the caps to a better model like the SONICAP or even a Mundorf Mcap will result in a definite sound quality improvement, ((regardless of whether the B&O speaker is an ACTIVE or PASSIVE model.))
7) I have upgraded the gold Roederstein caps inside my passive BEOVOX CX50 and BEOVOX CX100 to Sonicap and heard an immediate increase in transparency, with less brightness in the treble, along with improved 3D soundstage. Here is a link to my build… https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=161358.0
8) In my earlier post, I recommended that Wingnut purchase the Beoparts circuit board which you recommended to him. But then upgrade all the gold caps to Sonicap. This would result in him having a brand new BEOVOX S45 board, along with upgraded capacitors.
9) BELOW IS A LINK TO AN TRUSTED AUDIOPHILE FORUM, WHERE THEY TEST AND COMPARE THE TOP ELECTROLYTIC AND FILM CAPACITORS CURRENTLY AVAILABLE. HE GIVES THEM EACH A RATING FOR SOUND QUALITY …
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html
Del16: Hi Dillen. I apologise for not being clearer with my words. Here is the answer to all of your questions and statements:- 1) The photo of the circuit board in your link to the beopart store contains 9 gold colour Film Capacitors (NO ELECTROLYTICS ARE VISIBLE ON THAT BOARD). - Fact 1; The same photo is used for several kits. The photo doesn't necessarily show the components in the actual kit. It says so in the kits description. You would know if you read it.- Fact 2; You don't know anything about capacitors. Read on. 2) Three of the gold caps have a Roederstein (ROE) badge on them. Therefore I assumed that the rest of them are also Roederstein. - (Irrelevant, because it's not that speaker model which filter is pictured). 3) It is a fact that a ‘film capacitor’ has a single tinned lead protruding from each end (just like the ones shown in the photo). - Eh... no!- One lead out each end makes it an axial component, usually for being mounted "lying down".- Rather than a radial, which has both leads out at the same end and typically mounts "standing up".- Film capacitors are made using different dielectric materials in the form of thin films, polyester, paper etc.- Electrolytic capacitors are made using a liquid (an electrolyte). This is what dries out with age and heat (but also what makes electrolytics better for some positions). It's often - but not always - some form of boric acid. 4) An Electrolytic Capacitor has two leads protruding from the same end (none are visible on that board). - (No. See above).5) A good value replacement would be SoniCCap Platinum film caps (CHEAP at around $3 to $6 each). - The kit is less than EUR 4 per cap. (even incl. 25% danish VAT). I can assure you it's very good value for money. Not least because there is no supplier or other "middle-man" between the manufacturer and the shop. You could easily triple the price, had there been one. 6) Upgrading the caps to a better model like the SONICAP or even a Mundorf Mcap will result in a definite sound quality improvement, ((regardless of whether the B&O speaker is an ACTIVE or PASSIVE model.)) - That's not given. It all depends on the rest of the circuit, the speaker drivers and even the cabinet. And not least the listener. The latter certainly is true for the so-called audiophiles.- I don't believe you would fit a Mundorf capacitor in an active filter. On the other hand, you may, but I wouldn't. I would use film caps here, if possible, or perhaps tantalum. 7) I have upgraded the gold Roederstein caps inside my passive BEOVOX CX50 and BEOVOX CX100 to Sonicap and heard an immediate increase in transparency, with less brightness in the treble, along with improved 3D soundstage. Here is a link to my build… https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=161358.0 - The Roederstein electrolytics used extensively by B&O were actually quite good quality components when new. I remember looking around for a place to buy them for my own projects. You would be hard pressed finding anything better back then (and film capacitors were certainly available and also found in selected positions in some speaker models). - What you hear is an improvement from 30+ years old and dried out to factory fresh. - And you removed the "OBSTRUCTIVE SHIELD COVER (DETRIMENTAL TO PERFORMANCE)" - which was in fact there for a very good reason! And you took away the angled composite backing and put screws through the alu cabinet. I'm baffled. 8) In my earlier post, I recommended that Wingnut purchase the Beoparts circuit board which you recommended to him. But then upgrade all the gold caps to Sonicap. This would result in him having a brand new BEOVOX S45 board, along with upgraded capacitors. - So apparently you didn't bother to read my previous reply.- It's still not boards sold there. It's a capacitor kit! 9) BELOW IS A LINK TO AN TRUSTED AUDIOPHILE FORUM, WHERE THEY TEST AND COMPARE THE TOP ELECTROLYTIC AND FILM CAPACITORS CURRENTLY AVAILABLE. HE GIVES THEM EACH A RATING FOR SOUND QUALITY … http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html - A trusted audiophile forum?
- Fact 1; The same photo is used for several kits. The photo doesn't necessarily show the components in the actual kit. It says so in the kits description. You would know if you read it.- Fact 2; You don't know anything about capacitors. Read on.
- (Irrelevant, because it's not that speaker model which filter is pictured).
- Eh... no!- One lead out each end makes it an axial component, usually for being mounted "lying down".- Rather than a radial, which has both leads out at the same end and typically mounts "standing up".- Film capacitors are made using different dielectric materials in the form of thin films, polyester, paper etc.- Electrolytic capacitors are made using a liquid (an electrolyte). This is what dries out with age and heat (but also what makes electrolytics better for some positions). It's often - but not always - some form of boric acid.
- (No. See above).5) A good value replacement would be SoniCCap Platinum film caps (CHEAP at around $3 to $6 each).
- The kit is less than EUR 4 per cap. (even incl. 25% danish VAT). I can assure you it's very good value for money. Not least because there is no supplier or other "middle-man" between the manufacturer and the shop. You could easily triple the price, had there been one.
- That's not given. It all depends on the rest of the circuit, the speaker drivers and even the cabinet. And not least the listener. The latter certainly is true for the so-called audiophiles.- I don't believe you would fit a Mundorf capacitor in an active filter. On the other hand, you may, but I wouldn't. I would use film caps here, if possible, or perhaps tantalum.
- The Roederstein electrolytics used extensively by B&O were actually quite good quality components when new. I remember looking around for a place to buy them for my own projects. You would be hard pressed finding anything better back then (and film capacitors were certainly available and also found in selected positions in some speaker models).
- What you hear is an improvement from 30+ years old and dried out to factory fresh.
- And you removed the "OBSTRUCTIVE SHIELD COVER (DETRIMENTAL TO PERFORMANCE)" - which was in fact there for a very good reason! And you took away the angled composite backing and put screws through the alu cabinet. I'm baffled.
- So apparently you didn't bother to read my previous reply.- It's still not boards sold there. It's a capacitor kit!
- A trusted audiophile forum?
Please find my comments in the quote above.
Throwing some "fancy" brand names around does not impress anyone here. Take that to the so-called audiophiles (who BTW surely wouldn't listen to Beovox CX50 or CX100).
I have also experimented with the brands you mention, - and countless more.Both in smaller speaker models (like this) and larger. Thanks to my collecting genes I have owned the whole passive Beovox range (in all available finishes).I have spent more than 45 years with electronics and more than 40 years specifically and intensively with B&O audio pre-2000.I know something about this subject - I know what is good value for money (you cannot buy better than what I linked to - certainly not for this speaker model and certainly not at that price)- hence my advice and the custom made capacitors.I spec'ed them.
If the above really is your answer to all of my questions, I must keep on wondering.
All opinions are welcome, but please give advice based on knowledge.
Dillen why do you have to try to mock and humiliate someone who has a different opinion to you? Why can’t you tolerate people who have different views?
I’ve also done modifications to B&O for years. 20 years experience in audiophile hifi.
I’ve also modified Beolab 4000, Beolab 6000, and my latest project which is the Beolab 1’s. Big improvements can be heard. You’re welcome to come hear them anytime. Unlike yourself I’m not rude, but instead friendly and approachable.
All my mods/builds are documented in detail on the net.
I’ve used plenty of high end equipment in my time… Martin Logan full range electrostats, Quad electrostats, Wilson Audio, Castle, Tannoy Westminster, Beolab 1, Odyssey Kismet power amps, Tact amplifiers, Mark Levinson amplifiers, Krell etc ((that qualifies as experience)).
My dad’s friend used to own ABSOLUTE SOUNDS hifi shop in London UK where I’ve spent hours there listening to thousands of pounds of audio equipment. Wilson audio speakers worth £10,000 etc etc.
I’ve build Lowther, Audio Nirvana and Fostex speakers.
It is a fact that the capacitors that I have listed are all very respected in the hifi modification world. Just Google them. The following well known/top suppliers will happily confirm this to be true…
www.partsconnexion.com
www.Sonicraft.com
www.vhaudiocom
www.hificollective.com
You said that I don’t know anything about capacitors, even though you couldn’t tell the difference between a film capacitor and and electrolytic capacitor.
You didn’t even know that the discontinued Black Gates are regarded by the majority as the finest ELECTROLYTICS in the world. Just Google it.
It is a fact that the gold capacitors in the photo are FILM types. (I was simply going by the photo in your link)
It is a fact that the original main caps on the S45 board are film type.
By the way I’m not saying that Roederstein’s are bad. I am simply saying that they can be improved upon with better caps.
By the way, a user on here modified the S45’s with some nice Auricap film capacitors. He confirmed a big improvement in the sound quality. Here is the archived link to it on this forum…
https://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/5584.aspx
By the way the mods done to my BEOVOX CX50 made a big improvement. Look at the very last photo showing the finished item in Gold finish with ‘solid aluminium’ backed cover to replace the cheap plastic one. By the way, removing the plastic cap over the tweeter removes the slightly ‘cupped sound’.
The finished CX50 with mods now has…
1) HOLOGRAPHIC 3D SOUNDSTAGE.
2) SUPER LOW COLORATION.
3) IMPROVED BASS.
4) MORE OPEN AND NATURAL TREBLE.
5) PROPER BINDING POSTS
Del16: Dillen why do you have to try to mock and humiliate someone who has a different opinion to you? Why can’t you tolerate people who have different views? I’ve also done modifications to B&O for years. 20 years experience in audiophile hifi. I’ve also modified Beolab 4000, Beolab 6000, and my latest project which is the Beolab 1’s. Big improvements can be heard. You’re welcome to come hear them anytime. Unlike yourself I’m not rude, but instead friendly and approachable. All my mods/builds are documented in detail on the net. I’ve used plenty of high end equipment in my time… Martin Logan full range electrostats, Quad electrostats, Wilson Audio, Castle, Tannoy Westminster, Beolab 1, Odyssey Kismet power amps, Tact amplifiers, Mark Levinson amplifiers, Krell etc ((that qualifies as experience)). My dad’s friend used to own ABSOLUTE SOUNDS hifi shop in London UK where I’ve spent hours there listening to thousands of pounds of audio equipment. Wilson audio speakers worth £10,000 etc etc. I’ve build Lowther, Audio Nirvana and Fostex speakers. It is a fact that the capacitors that I have listed are all very respected in the hifi modification world. Just Google them. The following well known/top suppliers will happily confirm this to be true… www.partsconnexion.com www.Sonicraft.com www.vhaudiocom www.hificollective.com You said that I don’t know anything about capacitors, even though you couldn’t tell the difference between a film capacitor and and electrolytic capacitor. You didn’t even know that the discontinued Black Gates are regarded by the majority as the finest ELECTROLYTICS in the world. Just Google it. It is a fact that the gold capacitors in the photo are FILM types. (I was simply going by the photo in your link) It is a fact that the original main caps on the S45 board are film type.
Eh....
Can't I tell the difference from film to electrolytics?I am beginning to think, you are a troll.You are most welcome to have your opinions (though we do not accept trolling), and I have no doubts that you've bought and fitted even very fine and expensive capacitors, and I'm sure you have listened to expensive speakers. Not sure where you saw me questioning that.My main aim here is not to discuss opinions, and as long as we stick to facts, there will not be any "audiophile" discussions.And I'm talking about facts exactly.The golden Roederstein (ROE) capacitors visible in the kits picture are electrolytics.You can still buy ROE caps - but I don't find the modern types quite as good as the originals were (hence the need for custom manufacturing).https://www.radio741.com/42254-470uf-63v-electrolytic-capacitor-roe.html
They are electrolytics. That's why we need to replace them. - Because they deteriorate with age (decades) from drying out - though some will still be performing surprisingly fine.
The capacitors in question in this thread about Beovox S45-2 are also electrolytics.In some Beovox S45-2 they are a golden type similar to the one shown in the link above, in others you will find an "alu-"colored type. They are all bipolar electrolytic capacitors.
They all have one pin out each end, making them axial types.There are no film capacitors in Beovox S45-2. If still in doubt, I suggest you check the schematics.The symbols for electrolytics and "conventional" capacitors (read: film-types etc.) are different. (Because they are in fact and in many ways different components).
EDIT: Yes, replacing old and dried electrolytic capacitors with factory fresh will give an improvement.I already stated that above. That's the whole point in replacing them.Film capacitors typically age better and usually never need replacement, - but they won't necessarily be quite as good as electrolytics in all positions as I've also mentioned already.
The screws I put through the rear of the cabinet are irrelevant because I filled and painted over the imperfections.
The screws that I put through the cabinet are irrelevant because I filled and painted over the top of it.
Ok thanks for the input, I appreciate it. I couldn’t find a decent photo of the S45 circuit boards to see the caps. I will look for the schematic on Google.
https://picclick.co.uk/Bang-Olufsen-BeoVox-S45-2-BO-crossover-273087704832.html#&gid=1&pid=1
And here the alu-colored types (S45 rather than S45-2, but the difference is minor and irrelevant in this case as it's not related to the capacitor types).https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/qYwAAOSwhtJgA3uM/s-l400.jpg
Thanks for that link. OK now we’re getting somewhere. Nice simple layout and design. I initially thought it would be a lot more complicated than that.
The following link from Danny Richie at GR RESEARCH forum is useful because it shows how to arrange the coils for minimal interference.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=83325.280
It's been a tough week at work so far and I needed a bit of light relief to cheer me up and make me laugh.
This thread was doing well for that, until I clicked on the link for the modifications to the CX-50s, and now I'm more depressed than ever.
Don't worry Adam, my CX50's are doing fine. I agree that I could have found a better way to attach the rear panels.