ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi everyone! I currently have a BeoSound 2 Mk 2 which I'm going to sell as I've had one too many issues with software updates on the platform ruining my bass. After the latest update once again the bass output on the speaker is significantly worse, and a factory reset hasn't helped at all. This is the third time I'm having this exact issue with this speaker and I've posted about it before. The funny thing is my BeoSound 1 Mk 1 never has any issues with software updates affecting sound quality.
Suffice to say my patience has run out and I'll be getting rid of the speaker. Now that the Balance comes in a relatively nice aluminum finish I'll pick one up and hope for the best.
Is the Balance really a downgrade from the BeoSound 2 though? Also, where I'm located I'm only able to get the version with GVA. I understand there's a switch underneath the speaker to disable the microphone, can someone please help me to check whether or not this is a soft or hard switch? I'm quite paranoid about having a microphone in my bedroom so I'll need to know whether or not the "microphone mute" switch will survive a reboot and even factory reset.
As much as I'd love to audition the Balance that's not currently possible due to COVID-related issues, thus any assistance and advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanksies!~
It would be interesting for me to have others’ experience too since I am considering buying one. I assume it is not a main rule that all Beosound 2 speakers would have a ruined bass at a particular software update, but only some. I have not had such issues with the Beosound 1 mark 2 or the Balance - yet. Do keep in mind though that you may have one issue with one speaker, and another issue with another speaker. So ditching the Beosound 2 and getting a Balance might not be the solution. B&O should investigate why this is even an issue with your Beosound 2. Honestly I am also a bit surprised how a mature product such as Beosound 2 may still be impacted by not only software issues but also a downgrade in bass performance. On the one hand it gets me thinking if I should rather go for a Level as my next addition, however I have read another thread about swapped stereo channels. I don’t know what B&O changes so that it is not caught before a new software update is released but too many people report sound degration issues. I don’t like that too much.
For a year or more I was holding on to buying a Balance for several reasons, and one of them was if I should get a Beosound 2 instead. I went to my local dealer in order to audition a range of new and old speakers, and while I found the Level okay, I did get an instant impression of the Beosound 2 that it was bigger, in my view more precise and there was this magic about it that you can only feel but not describe. Soundwise that’s the speaker I wanted to go for. Then immediately I continued with the Balance. To my ears it sounded very close to the Beosound 2. More so than to other speakers, and they are commonly compared. I and my dealer agreed that the Beosound 2 sounded slightly more pleasing while the Balance had a slightly bigger sound. I have now got two Balances (a Nordic Ice with an in my view gorgeous aluminium base, depending on the light(!) with some subtle sandy/grainy texture and a walnut Bespoke version), and I love them both but I still keep thinking of the sound of the BS2 :).
Another thing in terms of sound is that while the BS2 has got a tiny edge in how sonorous it is, you have more options to tune the Balance. For example you have no Active Room Compensation with the BS2. These two speakers were not placed next to each other at my dealer’s, so acoustics may have impacted my first impressions. But when playing the Balance in omni mode, it has got a much greater embrace in the room than when it plays forward-facing towards you.
Last but not least what I have experienced with the Balance is that they are awesome with Beolink, not a hick-up, but when set up in stereo wirelessly, then no matter which one I place on the right and set up as the right channel, this speaker would keep dropping off, so the playback keeps coming and going. Wired through Ethernet it is perfect. Usually I’d have no speed issues with my internet and I have a meshed setup of several access points. So I’m kind of suspecting a software issue here. Primarily because - as mentioned - they play perfectly via Beolink multiroom, and they play perfectly as stand-alone speakers too.
Just wanted to share what I have experienced before you really get rid of your BS2 :). I’d still prefer its sound a lot over the Level and a tiny bit over the Balance, and it seems like no speaker is an exception when it comes to sound issues. Sadly!!! But B&O needs to fix it instead of you getting another one.
Hey thank you for your detailed and lengthy reply :D yeah I’ve also heard about the issues with the Level lol. Joke. How that could even get past any sort of QC is beyond me; even when setting up my speakers on Windows one of the very first things I do is a Left/Right channel test because crap just sounds WAY weird when your stereo channels are swapped.
Yeah my issues with the BeoSound 2 are unfortunate because it’s seriously the best sounding Bluetooth speaker I’ve ever owned… when it works. I actually firewalled my speakers so that they can’t automatically update for precisely this reason, but I went ahead to update them anyway since I was hoping that Bluetooth would be a little more stable (which I’m happy to report I haven’t had any Bluetooth crashes yet requiring a full speaker reboot ever since the latest update). My previous update was about a year and a half ago which was the last time an update wrecked the bass performance on my BeoSound 2; I can’t even remember how I fixed it the last time round (numerous factory resets and another update I think).
Either way my hope is that with the Balance being on the latest software platform they’d hopefully pay more attention to it. I only have so much energy to deal with a speaker’s sound profile changing every single time I update the damn thing. Even if the Balance is “only” 90% of the BS2 I’d happily take this sacrifice if it means that I don’t have to deal with software update headaches anymore.
Oh and also my patience with B&O’s support has run out an extremely long time ago. I’d rather take the hit of selling my BS2 and buying a Balance than tearing my hair out dealing with their customer service. The last time I emailed them about my BS2 they gave me the firmware download link for the MP3 player by the same god damn name despite me mentioning a gazillion times that I’m talking about the BS2 Speaker and not the darn MP3 player from an eternity and a half ago. Also my BS2 was already exchanged once also due to software screwups and I know I’m not the only one with the sound profile changing post-update although we do seem to be in the minority.
Having said that I typically listen to my BS2 daily so I’m extremely accustomed to its sound and I’ll notice even minor changes very quick.
Hi BeoAnna
I agree with you regarding B&O online support. It's atrocious.
What I don't understand, is why you put up with this and continue purchasing B&O products. I, for sure, will stop buying their products. I have been a regular customer for 25 years but now I have had it with B&O.
Sorry, did not want to hijack your thread, just wanted to express my astonishment.
I think it depends a lot on the room where the speaker will be positioned as well as personal preference. The Balance is more powerful and more accurate, the Beosound 2 has more personality. It's somehow similar to Beolab 50 vs Beolab 5.
In a bigger room the Balance will do better. Also, the Balance can do room compensation while the Beosound 2 cannot. That being said, under the right circumstances, to me the Beosound 2 sounds more pleasing than the Balance.
schatzoy:Hi BeoAnna I agree with you regarding B&O online support. It's atrocious. What I don't understand, is why you put up with this and continue purchasing B&O products. I, for sure, will stop buying their products. I have been a regular customer for 25 years but now I have had it with B&O. Sorry, did not want to hijack your thread, just wanted to express my astonishment.
Haha don’t worry, not a hijack; ultimately it’s an important question and B&O does need to get their crap together unless they fancy losing more customers. While I do entertain their “lower end” — albeit still very expensive — products I no longer bother with BeoLabs et al. Just isn’t worth the risk. And the only reason I even tolerate their BeoSound series is because it’s not easy finding a good speaker with decent lower frequency performance which is also compact and doesn’t eat up too much horizontal real estate. Right now I’m living in a small apartment so I place a huge emphasis on how much performance I can get with minimum space, and while I’m quite a bass junkie I do like my bass to be extremely punchy and tight.
I have a friend with a Devialet and their software and support is amazingly even worse than B&O.
There really aren’t that many wireless speakers out there that can give you the sheer bass performance you get from the BS2/BSB in a 20cm diameter; and being the huge interior design nutter that I am I do like my stuff to not be an eyesore as well, so I really do appreciate B&O’s design philosophy a lot and unfortunately you just don’t get much of this from anywhere else.
So for me I guess I only continue buying some of their crap because the pro’s still kinda outweigh the con’s? If anyone has any idea what other speakers I can look at I’ll definitely peek around, but again space is my number one priority followed by design and bass performance.
Again thanks to everyone who has replied to this thread :D
thank you for your response. Your argumentation makes sense, there are no real alternatives, that look good and perform well. It's a catch 22, can't live with and can't live without.
I hope you will find a satisfying replacement for the BS2. Oops...I said BS :-)
Bloody hell my problems keep getting worse.
Got myself a Balance in Nordic Ice, lovely finish, and damn does it sound good. I find the room compensation a bit crap but I guess this is one of those big “YMMV” subjects especially since the Balance calibrates based on its own position and not yours. Anyway, as mentioned in my original thread I had to opt for the GVA version because my dealer refuses to carry non-GVA models (they basically told me that since they’re the same price everyone here wants the GVA one just in case). I originally thought this wouldn’t be a big deal since there’s a nice big clicky “MIC OFF” switch at the bottom; so I bought the speaker and went on to set it up via the iOS Settings App as an AirPlay speaker thus fully bypassing any Google shenanigans.
All good. Except… WHY does Bluetooth get disabled if you don’t use GVA?!? WHAT? If I tap on the Bluetooth pairing button I am greeted with a “nice” voice telling me that I cannot pair any Bluetooth devices until I complete the Google Home App portion of the setup. Really??? I don’t know about you guys but this sounds like something that would’ve been nice to know on such an expensive product.
While I don’t have an issue with AirPlay I do require Bluetooth to be working and this puts a huge spanner in my plans.
Anyone have any idea what I should do about this?
Sigh.
I think there are people more knowledgeable than me here regarding Google but to me this sounds more like something Google is to blame for rather than B&O. Previously I heard line-in could not be shared in a multiroom setup, exactly because it was kind of prevented by Google, whereas you could do that in the non-GA version. I have gone non-GA all the way. On the one hand I do not understand why they are not selling non-GA where you live, on the other hand I do agree that there are important notes that should be shared with customers on the B&O webpage so that everyone can find the type of speaker that works for their use case. I still do not know in what way they differ from each other but as long as I can, I would never get a GA-enabled speaker. It is not only voice-contol that you get with your purchase.
Csaba:I would never get a GA-enabled speaker. It is not only voice-contol that you get with your purchase.
Yeah I hear ya there. Problem is I’m not sure if the non-GVA speakers are much better in a sense that they’re still equipped with Google Home. For a long time the B&O App would always redirect you and force you to setup your non-GVA speaker with Google Home regardless even if it didn’t have Google Voice; I would know since I have a BeoSound 2 Mk2 without GVA. It took me a lot of digging around many years ago to find out that you could bypass the Google Home portion of the setup by setting the speaker up as an AirPlay speaker first, and Bluetooth continued to work. So I assumed that I’d be able to do the same thing with the GVA Balance and still be able to retain all functionality. Apparently not.
At the end of the day I have all my speakers firewalled since I don’t trust that nothing is being transmitted knowing that Google Home functionality exists even within the non-GVA speakers. Also B&O *NEVER* honours my Privacy Settings on my BeoSound 1 & 2. Every time I click “Decline” to share usage data it always gets changed to say I accepted it a day later even though I didn’t; even on the latest update.
Pretty depressed about all this because I otherwise like the Balance.
Since you have a Beosound 2, not sure if you’ve seen it on the forum but there was news about the Beosound 1 & 2 where you would not be forced to auto-redirect to the Google app in order to set up your speaker. Not sure if it was an update to the B&O app or the speakers themselves, and I am not sure if it has released or it is still in beta, but I’d test it out if I were you, or keep an eye out for the update. In any case I too hope for this to be impkemented for the Balance. Don’t give up on the Balance just yet ;).
BeoAnna: Anyone have any idea what I should do about this? Sigh.
I have an idea, not sure you'll like it, but it's what I would personally do: return the speaker to the seller for a refund.
It doesn't matter if it's out of the 30-day return window some sellers have, the product was advertised as being also a Bluetooth speaker and - based on comparison with industry-standard competitor products - it doesn't work as such unless you set-it-up with Google Home, which is a non-standard requirement not mentioned on the product page nor in marketing collateral.
In other words, you have the legal right to get this fixed. One option is having B&O amending this behaviour with a software update (unlikely to happen, if it's Google's requirement that's keeping their hands tied), another way is giving you a refund (or exchange for the non-GVA variant).
(assuming you reside in EU/UK - I am not aware of US/CA legislation)
Anna, can you return the Balance and have your dealer ORDER you a non-GVA? Who cares what he carries--if you buy it, buy it as you want it. Alternatively, can you buy it straight from the B&O website?
I haven't had a single set-up issue with my non-GVA Level. None of that Google nonsense.
Currently: BeoLab 17, BeoLab 18, BeoSound Core, Beosound Level, Beosound A1 2nd Gen, BeoPlay S8 Connection Hub, Halo, Essence Remote
Previously: BeoSound 1 non-GVA
BeoAnna: Bloody hell my problems keep getting worse. Got myself a Balance in Nordic Ice, lovely finish, and damn does it sound good. I find the room compensation a bit crap but I guess this is one of those big “YMMV” subjects especially since the Balance calibrates based on its own position and not yours. Anyway, as mentioned in my original thread I had to opt for the GVA version because my dealer refuses to carry non-GVA models (they basically told me that since they’re the same price everyone here wants the GVA one just in case). I originally thought this wouldn’t be a big deal since there’s a nice big clicky “MIC OFF” switch at the bottom; so I bought the speaker and went on to set it up via the iOS Settings App as an AirPlay speaker thus fully bypassing any Google shenanigans. All good. Except… WHY does Bluetooth get disabled if you don’t use GVA?!? WHAT? If I tap on the Bluetooth pairing button I am greeted with a “nice” voice telling me that I cannot pair any Bluetooth devices until I complete the Google Home App portion of the setup. Really??? I don’t know about you guys but this sounds like something that would’ve been nice to know on such an expensive product. While I don’t have an issue with AirPlay I do require Bluetooth to be working and this puts a huge spanner in my plans. Anyone have any idea what I should do about this? Sigh.
Try this…
1. Turn Mic on2. Say, “Hey Google, enable Bluetooth”3. Pair device4. Switch off mic5. Paired device should now work perfectly
Cheers, Simon.
B&O products are V1-32, BS2, H95, E8 and an Essence remote.11-46 now replaced with Sony A90J 65”, Sony HT-A9, Sony UBP-X800M2 and Sony SRS-NS7.
Doesn’t work, the speaker keeps telling me that the “First Time Setup” (of Google Home, not the B&O App) needs to be done first. I’m going to call my dealer once they’re open and ask them what options they can give me because as it stands my BeoLit 17 is more useful than this speaker. I don’t even have a Google account (don’t use gmail et al) and am not intending to give them my mobile number to register one just to enable Bluetooth.
If I'm okay with having a microphone always on, are there any other downsides to having a GVA BS2? As I understand, if you start music playing with google, you can't JOIN that in other rooms via beolink. However, can you still use Deezer and all of the other sources via the B&O app?
I understand that many people don't like the idea of always having a mic listening, but I don't mind it. I'm trying to decide between the GVA and non-GVA version.
Yes, you can JOIN on other devices if you start playing sources via the B&O app (or via remote). Only when you start playing via a voice command the join function will not work. Also the line-in seems to be an exception where for some reason you can join with the non-GVA but not with the GVA version.
Frederik: Also the line-in seems to be an exception where for some reason you can join with the non-GVA but not with the GVA version.
Also the line-in seems to be an exception where for some reason you can join with the non-GVA but not with the GVA version.
And exactly this - in times where many want to have a turntable - could be a deal breaker.
They would not be able to listen to that throughout their (NL) setup.
So best think about what you need and which version you buy, before ordering.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen: Frederik: Also the line-in seems to be an exception where for some reason you can join with the non-GVA but not with the GVA version. And exactly this - in times where many want to have a turntable - could be a deal breaker. They would not be able to listen to that throughout their (NL) setup. So best think about what you need and which version you buy, before ordering. MM
All of my turntables are in NL via NL/ML converters with BeoMasters, so I'm fine without the line-in. I've been wanting to upgrade the natural BeoSound 1 in my kitchen with a bronze BeoSound 2 to perhaps look better with all of the copper in my kitchen. I hear a lot of people very much against the GVA versions, and I just wanted to be sure that the big reason is just a concern of privacy.
Millemissen: And exactly this - in times where many want to have a turntable - could be a deal breaker. They would not be able to listen to that throughout their (NL) setup. So best think about what you need and which version you buy, before ordering.
I agree. And even where you think the voice commands would come in handy there are serious limitations. For example, you start a B&O radio station and ask something trivial like "Can you stop playing in 1 hour", it just cannot do that, only if you started playing via Google Voice.
I got a Level with GVA, it was the only version my dealer had in stock, but I actually see mostly disadvantages compared to the non-GVA version. As others have said before, I think B&O should better advertise these differences because most customers think they get more for the same price, while in practice it is not as simple.
Frederik: Millemissen: And exactly this - in times where many want to have a turntable - could be a deal breaker. They would not be able to listen to that throughout their (NL) setup. So best think about what you need and which version you buy, before ordering. I agree. And even where you think the voice commands would come in handy there are serious limitations. For example, you start a B&O radio station and ask something trivial like "Can you stop playing in 1 hour", it just cannot do that, only if you started playing via Google Voice. I got a Level with GVA, it was the only version my dealer had in stock, but I actually see mostly disadvantages compared to the non-GVA version. As others have said before, I think B&O should better advertise these differences because most customers think they get more for the same price, while in practice it is not as simple.
Could you please elaborate on the disadvantages (other than the issue of privacy) of the GVA version?
beojeff:Could you please elaborate on the disadvantages (other than the issue of privacy) of the GVA version?
It's basically what has been discussed here before:
I guess that's more or less it. Admittedly, whether these are disadvantages or not probably depends on how you plan to use it. On the positive side, you also have som extra's like using the my buttons to turn of the light etc.
Frederik: beojeff:Could you please elaborate on the disadvantages (other than the issue of privacy) of the GVA version? It's basically what has been discussed here before: No multiroom for line-in No multiroom for sources activated via voice No Bluetooth connectivity if not activated via Google Home Set-up via Google Home app Trivial voice commands not working with native sources (e.g. sleep function) For some devices no my button radio station shortcuts (this does not apply to Level and Balance) Software dependence on Google, see recent Sonos patent case Google specific bugs, e.g. it happened to me that Google thought I wanted to turn volume to 100% which I can assure is not fun :-) Hardware switch does not turn it into non-GVA (I think it would be ideal if it was), Google will yell at you to turn the mic back up To make a stereo pair you have to be aware that both versions need to be the same I guess that's more or less it. Admittedly, whether these are disadvantages or not probably depends on how you plan to use it. On the positive side, you also have som extra's like using the my buttons to turn of the light etc.
Even though those issues have been discussed before, that really helps that you've listed them together in one place. I'm okay with using GVA and not having multi-room with the line-in. My big concern is if there are features lost by having the GVA version. Otherwise, many of the disadvantages just seem to be general dissatisfaction with Google.
BeoAnna: Is the Balance really a downgrade from the BeoSound 2 though? Also, where I'm located I'm only able to get the version with GVA. I understand there's a switch underneath the speaker to disable the microphone, can someone please help me to check whether or not this is a soft or hard switch? I'm quite paranoid about having a microphone in my bedroom so I'll need to know whether or not the "microphone mute" switch will survive a reboot and even factory reset.
I have both. Indeed, I also have a Level, Edge and Stage, too.
The Balance is fantastic, but I'd put the BeoSound 2 slightly above it. It just seems a little brighter, with enough bass. Slightly more of an all-round sound, whereas the Balance is a little more focussed on mid/low-range for me.
However, it's relatively marginal. Here's the order of sound with my ears from my devices:
1) BeoSound 22) Balance3) Level (love this as it's so portable)4) Stage (better suited for TV audio)5) BeoSound 1 (portable but weak for me)6) EdgeI've never got used to the Edge sound. It's just weird.
moxxey: BeoAnna: Is the Balance really a downgrade from the BeoSound 2 though? Also, where I'm located I'm only able to get the version with GVA. I understand there's a switch underneath the speaker to disable the microphone, can someone please help me to check whether or not this is a soft or hard switch? I'm quite paranoid about having a microphone in my bedroom so I'll need to know whether or not the "microphone mute" switch will survive a reboot and even factory reset. I have both. Indeed, I also have a Level, Edge and Stage, too. The Balance is fantastic, but I'd put the BeoSound 2 slightly above it. It just seems a little brighter, with enough bass. Slightly more of an all-round sound, whereas the Balance is a little more focussed on mid/low-range for me. However, it's relatively marginal. Here's the order of sound with my ears from my devices: 1) BeoSound 22) Balance3) Level (love this as it's so portable)4) Stage (better suited for TV audio)5) BeoSound 1 (portable but weak for me)6) EdgeI've never got used to the Edge sound. It's just weird.
I am surprised about the Edge. I have had a listen to it once but I cannot remember I would have placed it that low. But you are not the only one that says it sounds weird.
I dropped by my local B&O store for an audition shortly after Oslo had reopened in late August-early September I think, with the aim to listen to some of my test tracks on the Emerge, Level, Balance and Beosound 2, since I had not heard them since the launch. But I was really trying to see if I should buy the Balance or the Beosound 2.
I first tried the Emerge. It sounded pleasing to me but clearly pretty weak already around 50% volume. I might still get one later though. Somehow the sound of the Level did not come across equally pleasant to me but it was obviously a big step-up from the Emerge. I somehow expected something slightly bigger. It is perhaps just tuned more towards the mids, so I would probably adjust its sound settings if (or rather WHEN) I got myself one. I still love the Level as a whole.
Next up was the Beosound 2. Weirdly I had never had a listen to itbut I was curious based on my Beosound 1 (which I love by the way, but it is about the performance of an M3 only). The moment I heard the Beosound 2 I was blown away. There was some immediate magic about it that I find hard to describe. It really spoke to me.
When I then auditioned the Balance, I felt it was super close to the Beosound 2. Maybe more punch, but a slightly different tuning. I would really have loved to have the sound of the Beosound 2 in the design of the Balance, including the sound tech of the Balance really (such as room compensation, choice of direction, etc.). The latter argument, the possibility of a Bespoke edition and the Beolink multiroom feature in beta testing was what in the end lead me to buying the Balance. BUT, I still keep thinking about that "wow"-factor I experienced at my dealer's when I heard the Beosound 2. Really close, the Balance and the BS2, but I do agree that the BS2 has a hint of magic to it that places it slightly ahead of the Balance for me. That said though, every time I listen to the Balance (or both of them for that matter) at home, I still absolutely love it. Both in multiroom and in stereo, now that the latter works :).
And what I find even more interesting is that I have thought much more about the Beosound 2 since Beolink was launched for Mozart products. I have played around with different placements of my Beosound 1 and the two Balances, and multiroom is already fantastic as is, but I know how incredible it would be with a Beosound 2 placed between two rooms with a Balance in each. It would feel like all-embracing on a higher volume. Which the Level might not fit into since it is not omni-directional.
It hurts a bit that they have increased the price so much on the BS2.
Csaba: I am surprised about the Edge. I have had a listen to it once but I cannot remember I would have placed it that low. But you are not the only one that says it sounds weird.
When I bought it - which was really cheap at the time, at only £1450 as it was ex demo - the dealer told me that it "has a unique sound, we say it has an American sound" and I bought it off the internet without testing it, but I had heard the Edge in the Berlin store. Wasn't as good as an A9, but sounded decent.
I think with the Edge, it depends on the location of the speaker, size of room and type of audio. The Berlin store has theirs mounted on the wall and it's a big space, so the sound was 'big'.
The Edge in an apartment is a different beast and the sound is just a little odd. I think if you only owned an Edge, you probably wouldn't notice, but compared to a BeoSound 2 or Balance, it sounds like something I can't even explain properly. Never have. Just 'odd'. And I wouldn't buy it above even a Level, which is why I can't recommend it too highly.
moxxey: Csaba: I am surprised about the Edge. I have had a listen to it once but I cannot remember I would have placed it that low. But you are not the only one that says it sounds weird. When I bought it - which was really cheap at the time, at only £1450 as it was ex demo - the dealer told me that it "has a unique sound, we say it has an American sound" and I bought it off the internet without testing it, but I had heard the Edge in the Berlin store. Wasn't as good as an A9, but sounded decent. I think with the Edge, it depends on the location of the speaker, size of room and type of audio. The Berlin store has theirs mounted on the wall and it's a big space, so the sound was 'big'. The Edge in an apartment is a different beast and the sound is just a little odd. I think if you only owned an Edge, you probably wouldn't notice, but compared to a BeoSound 2 or Balance, it sounds like something I can't even explain properly. Never have. Just 'odd'. And I wouldn't buy it above even a Level, which is why I can't recommend it too highly.
Yes, that's the thing. You do get an idea when auditioning speakers at your dealer's, but they might sound completely different in your home.
Placement clearly has a role to play regardless of where you try the speaker out. For example if you are at your dealer's and the Balance is placed in a completely different spot compared to the Beosound 2 and it's those two you'd like to have a fair comparison of, then you might get a misleading impression unless they are actually placed side by side.
The Level for example was in the middle of the room on a table, opposite of the headphones, stood horizontal. I suppose you'd have a better bass response too if it stood right next to a wall.
Then you bring it home, only to realize that in the acoustics of your home it is completely different. So it is also very much about improving the acoustics of your space. I still have some to improve on that front.
I also agree that it is really in your own environment that you can have a real test, especially when comparing different speakers and learning about their character. At your dealer's you might get an impression of how else it might also sound, at home you might be pulled back down to earth or might have an even better experience of the speaker.
I have seen a video from Henrik @ BOTF where B&O was talking about the Level (among other products) in a space that looked like somebody's home. It started a conversation about how B&O should have stores that replicate people's homes in order to showcase a more realistic application of their speakers. As opposed to just a store with speakers in it. But of course it is a cost issue.
Frederik:It's basically what has been discussed here before: No multiroom for line-in No multiroom for sources activated via voice No Bluetooth connectivity if not activated via Google Home Set-up via Google Home app Trivial voice commands not working with native sources (e.g. sleep function) For some devices no my button radio station shortcuts (this does not apply to Level and Balance) Software dependence on Google, see recent Sonos patent case Google specific bugs, e.g. it happened to me that Google thought I wanted to turn volume to 100% which I can assure is not fun :-) Hardware switch does not turn it into non-GVA (I think it would be ideal if it was), Google will yell at you to turn the mic back up To make a stereo pair you have to be aware that both versions need to be the same I guess that's more or less it. Admittedly, whether these are disadvantages or not probably depends on how you plan to use it. On the positive side, you also have som extra's like using the my buttons to turn of the light etc.
Thank you very much Frederik for this. There seriously needs to be a thread just for this list, but ultimately it’s B&O’s job to make sure that customers are able to make an informed purchasing decision and this is where they have unfortunately failed. It shouldn’t take a customer to wonder “WTF?” after purchasing a gimped product to only find out online post-purchase of some ridiculously unreasonable and unforeseeable limitation(s).
I do have an update though:
After getting in touch with my dealer they admitted that this specific limitation of the GVA model is an issue (one which they did provide feedback to B&O in Denmark about) and they originally offered for me to drag this rather hefty chunk of aluminium all the way back to the showroom just to have them do the initial Google setup for me; lol. I told them that I wasn’t comfortable with my speaker being tied to a Google account I wasn’t in control of, and I also said that I’m not inclined to have to bring the speaker down every single time I need to Factory Reset the damn thing — like I’ve done a combined dozen times already on my BS1 & BS2 — when things inevitably break after some random update. Eventually they conceded and allowed me to exchange my Balance for the one remaining non-GVA model which they apparently had left.
Unfortunately it wasn’t in Nordic Ice as I had originally wanted, it’s really such a gorgeous finish, but the marble on the Gold Tone is not too shabby.
I am happy to report that the non-GVA Balance is working as intended and Bluetooth is functional without having to muck around with any of the Google Home setup nonsense; I do already miss the Nordic Ice though. Oh well. I did ask if they could order one but apparently Denmark is out of stock already, must be selling really well especially considering the Gold Tone is still easy to get.
My dealer did warn me though that the speaker may still pester me — via voice prompts — to complete the first time setup though. Is this actually an issue? I haven’t heard a single voice since powering the speaker up. Time will tell I guess.
Sound-wise I can definitely see why some prefer the BS2. For me it depends on positioning honestly; the midrange drivers pointing sideways on the BS2 have always bothered me and you can kinda tell when standing in front of the speaker that the midrange is a little muted. You don’t get that on the Balance since it has a gazillion drivers. I also prefer the bass on the Balance.
So a happy ending for me at last but I did kinda get the impression that my dealer wasn’t too keen on an exchange but that’s an issue they need to bring up with Denmark heh. I do feel for them though and it sucks that they got stuck in the middle of this mess.
And sure this issue might be entirely Google’s doing but that’s what B&O gets for selling their soul to the devil. Screw Google.
Oh and I also noticed that the non-GVA Balance starts up and updates WAY faster than the GVA model. There must seriously be a colossal amount of bloat and spyware packaged in the GVA speakers for them to take 2-3X longer to boot and update.
@Moxxey-
I seem to recall that you're a GVA user. Perhaps you'd like to contribute your opinions regarding the features, advantages, and disadvantages of the GVA vs. non-GVA versions.
Yesterday, I made the purchase of the GVA Beosound 2 in bronze. Having it tied in to my Google account doesn't bother me.
BeoAnna:Oh well. I did ask if they could order one but apparently Denmark is out of stock already, must be selling really well especially considering the Gold Tone is still easy to get.
I don't know where you are based, but in Belgium the Nordic Ice non-GVA is still in stock on the B&O website for delivery next day.
Balance Nordic Ice non-GVA is also available on USA website. :)
beojeff: @Moxxey- I seem to recall that you're a GVA user. Perhaps you'd like to contribute your opinions regarding the features, advantages, and disadvantages of the GVA vs. non-GVA versions.
I have GVA and non-GVA, including two BeoSound 2's with both options. All I'd say is, I don't see the point of getting one without GVA. If you don't want it, just don't use it. My BeoSound 2 without GVA seems outdated now.With GVA, I don't use it for much. I just shout a the speaker to play something I want to listen, get it to change channels, often alter the volume with just a voice and so on. Just easier.
Of course, you can get up, go over, control yourself or pickup an iPad and find what you want, but you can do that with the GVA version too, plus have some voice control - just handy.
It's posted it twice - shame you can't delete a post.
moxxey:I have GVA and non-GVA, including two BeoSound 2's with both options. All I'd say is, I don't see the point of getting one without GVA. If you don't want it, just don't use it. My BeoSound 2 without GVA seems outdated now. With GVA, I don't use it for much. I just shout a the speaker to play something I want to listen, get it to change channels, often alter the volume with just a voice and so on. Just easier. Of course, you can get up, go over, control yourself or pickup an iPad and find what you want, but you can do that with the GVA version too, plus have some voice control - just handy.
Sandeep outlines exactly my impression of the whole GVA or non-GVA question:
If your intention is to NOT use Google Voice functions, then I think it's important to get a non-GVA device as opposed to getting a GVA device and switching off the mic. We all know the software bugs you to turn the mic back on all the time.
GVA devices are intended to be used with GVA implemented, it seems. And can be irritating if used otherwise.
So if privacy concerns are not relevant to you, then I'd say get the GVA if you intend to use Google Voice functionality; and if you intend NOT to use Google Voice functionality, it pays to stay away from the GVA version.
Curly:Sandeep outlines exactly my impression of the whole GVA or non-GVA question: If your intention is to NOT use Google Voice functions, then I think it's important to get a non-GVA device as opposed to getting a GVA device and switching off the mic. We all know the software bugs you to turn the mic back on all the time. GVA devices are intended to be used with GVA implemented, it seems. And can be irritating if used otherwise. So if privacy concerns are not relevant to you, then I'd say get the GVA if you intend to use Google Voice functionality; and if you intend NOT to use Google Voice functionality, it pays to stay away from the GVA version. Currently: BeoLab 17, BeoLab 18, BeoSound Core, Beosound Level, Beosound A1 2nd Gen, BeoPlay S8 Connection Hub, Halo, Essence Remote Previously: BeoSound 1 non-GVA
Sandyb: I had a Level GVA, used with the microphone switched off
I had a Level GVA, used with the microphone switched off
Still don't get why you wouldn't use GVA? I have no negative experiences at all, rarely picks up things it shouldn't (to be fair, sometimes the Balance can hear me ask the Level to do something) and it's far easier when it's on the wall and you just want to play or when you're outside on a sunbed enjoying your downtime and you want the volume up.
What's the point of getting up and/or fannying around when you can just tell it to do something? Makes no sense to me.
As for 'privacy issues'. I won't go in to detail, but I'm sure I've mentioned I run a software business? We're employed to work on the software that powers these devices - I can assure you it doesn't record terrabytes of audio for Google or anyone else to listen and/or try and sell you products. It does make mistakes though, granted. It might overhear something it thinks you said, but don't mistake that for paranoia over what it's doing. Your device doesn't have storage. It's not recording your audio. It's not uploading your content either. If it was, any half-reasonable techie would see GBs of data being uploaded to servers, especially if you have many GVA devices like I have here.
moxxey: Still don't get why you wouldn't use GVA? I have no negative experiences at all,
Still don't get why you wouldn't use GVA? I have no negative experiences at all,
The negative effect of GVA you won't notice directly, it is about collecting data about the people using it.
Data that will be collected , analysed sold for adtech and used against you in a way you won't notice. (Cambridge Analytica scandal)
That certain 3 letter agencies could listen along through your GVA speaker is maybe unlikely but surely possible.
As we know by now since the Pegasus software is there.
But you know that already running a software business, but others maybe not.
The idea that devices as speakers are listening 24/7 is just too much for many people.
And I don't mind to take a few steps and stretch my arm to turn on/off the light.
Using the wheels and lever of my Beosound 5 for putting on some music or setting volume is a more pleasant experience than tapping around on my smartphone wich I'm doing already too much...
There used to be a commercial on Dutch tv of a man who operated everything in his house with his voice; coffeemachine agenda, music(a BS 9000 !)
and door lock.
When he comes back from the dentist still sedated, the smart doorlock won't let him in because he doesn't recognise the voice from his sedated mouth anymore.
He's standing outside in the pouring rain...
Beosound 5 Encore, Beolab 3, Beolab 11, Beosound Balance Non GVA, H9i
2 reasons.
I find talking instructions out loud into the ether an odd thing, and one I'm unlikely to get used to.
Voice control is not sophisticated enough for me to use it and get over the oddness described above.
And when it comes to having a Google presence in my home, I'm happy to limit it to my browser searching and no more. Apple are by no means perfect in this arena, but I trust them by factors more than Google. Thats before you get to the myriad other hardware partners who use Google software and rely on monetising as much of your data as they can. Just one read of the Verge editor Nilay Patels experience with his parents Vizio TV is instructive enough - it was broadcasting large amounts of data back to Vizio, something which he confirmed with Vizio's CEO on a podcast interview. Myriad other examples too.
But anyway, I get that there is no perfect privacy at all, but there are shades of grey in how one lives online and how much of this stuff one invites into ones home.
I'd suggest a less declaratory tone - more than happy for people to buy GVA devices, but I try to not to exclaim that"I just dont get it".
moxxey: Sandyb: I had a Level GVA, used with the microphone switched off Still don't get why you wouldn't use GVA? I have no negative experiences at all, rarely picks up things it shouldn't (to be fair, sometimes the Balance can hear me ask the Level to do something) and it's far easier when it's on the wall and you just want to play or when you're outside on a sunbed enjoying your downtime and you want the volume up. What's the point of getting up and/or fannying around when you can just tell it to do something? Makes no sense to me. As for 'privacy issues'. I won't go in to detail, but I'm sure I've mentioned I run a software business? We're employed to work on the software that powers these devices - I can assure you it doesn't record terrabytes of audio for Google or anyone else to listen and/or try and sell you products. It does make mistakes though, granted. It might overhear something it thinks you said, but don't mistake that for paranoia over what it's doing. Your device doesn't have storage. It's not recording your audio. It's not uploading your content either. If it was, any half-reasonable techie would see GBs of data being uploaded to servers, especially if you have many GVA devices like I have here.
I imagine your dealer will order you whatever you want? I realize he may tend to purchase GVA versions as his stock; but if you want a non-GVA Balance, he can order it for you in the same way he can order you a Gold BL28 if he doesn't have one in stock or a Bespoke Balance to your liking.
If for some reason the dealer won't order you what you want, then I'd imagine the response would be "I can buy this off B&O's website, but I'd prefer to give you my business." See what he says. :)