ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Curly: If for some reason the dealer won't order you what you want, then I'd imagine the response would be "I can buy this off B&O's website, but I'd prefer to give you my business." See what he says. :)
If for some reason the dealer won't order you what you want, then I'd imagine the response would be "I can buy this off B&O's website, but I'd prefer to give you my business." See what he says. :)
That's what I did.
I recently ordered a Balance, wanted a non GVA, but the dealer said that they were only sold in certain area's.
I said that they were offered on B&O's website, and now he ordered a non GVA for me.
Beosound 5 Encore, Beolab 3, Beolab 11, Beosound Balance Non GVA, H9i
moxxey:As for 'privacy issues'. I won't go in to detail, but I'm sure I've mentioned I run a software business? We're employed to work on the software that powers these devices - I can assure you it doesn't record terrabytes of audio for Google or anyone else to listen and/or try and sell you products. It does make mistakes though, granted. It might overhear something it thinks you said, but don't mistake that for paranoia over what it's doing. Your device doesn't have storage. It's not recording your audio. It's not uploading your content either. If it was, any half-reasonable techie would see GBs of data being uploaded to servers, especially if you have many GVA devices like I have here.
And any half-reasonable "techie" would also know that it doesn't take "GB's of data" to make a very precise profile of an individual. There's about 8 billion people on this planet, all you need is a string a couple of bytes long to assign a unique identifier to every single living person. Then there's the audio recording bit: even if you assume Google is stupid -- which they aren't -- and is recording 24/7, once you've gotten the audio quality down to telephone levels (mono, 8KHz, 8bit; heck you could go even lower) you're still only talking about several dozen MB's compressed per day of 24/7 recording (which wouldn't ever happen; once you've gotten rid of all the idle periods you're likely talking KB's worth of data at most per day), which is extremely easy to sneak out in disguised chunks of telemetry data. That's not what Google or anyone sane is doing though: what they're doing is they're making very clever use of metadata and signatures of a vast database of predetermined keywords of interests. They *don't need* GB's to find out more about you, and you're definitely not going to notice any data that's used for profiling/advertising alongside all the expected communications of your device (such as telemetry, updates, regular communications to ensure you're signed in, and so on).
If you're really in software you should know this. Even if we were to wireshark the speaker the fact is most people will not be able to make up most of the data. Firstly I'd expect all communications to be over SSL, and while there's simple ways around this (MITM deep packet inspection (i.e. we decrypt the packet and then re-encrypt it with our own certificate)) many devices do force certificate checks and some even have hard-coded certificates or even encrypt data before the SSL layer. And even *if* we can decrypt the payload, that still doesn't change the fact that Google et al are going to have their own way of encoding data to the point where unless we have access to the source code and commit thousands of man-hours to audit it, we're not going to understand what's being transmitted anyway.
Some random and innocuous base64 encoded string could be carrying data about what voice commands you've issued, what keywords are of interests to profiling for advertising or other reasons, what music you're listening to, what your listening habits are, and so on. Data is the new gold of the 21st Century and beyond and Google is in the direct business of data collection and individual profiling.
And speaking of random and innocuous data, all it takes is one byte to alter the behavior of the product to do even more (or in some cases even less, as has been done all the way back in the 90's when Microsoft tried to limit what versions of DOS Windows 3.1 would install on top).
Let's be real here: we all know Google's business model. I'll use YouTube as an example because this is where it's the most blatant: Google's number one priority is to keep you engaged because keeping you engaged increases the likelihood they'll land an ad that you'll click on. The ad doesn't even need to be targeted; if someone's engaged long enough even the 69th random ad might strike a click. How do they keep you engaged? By predicting what you'll want to view next. Google subsequently puts everyone in their own little "echo chamber" of the internet by profiling you and making predictions of what will keep you hooked on YouTube.
Sometimes things are not always as blatant or innocuous as they seem though, but what Google is doing is a lot more sinister than what most people think. Facebook is equally as guilty of this, and we've seen all of the political problems this creates as it frequently pushes people into deeper and deeper political extremes on both ends of the spectrum all in the name of profits.
Your device doesn't need storage to do any of this either. RAM is so ridiculously cheap these days and I've already demonstrated that KB's to low MB's of data is more than sufficient. Even if the device is rebooted it doesn't matter, since unique identifiers will ensure that there always exists a strong level of persistence. And again, you should know that with software anything can be changed; either directly via an update, or indirectly by having the device phone home at a predetermined interval to check whether or not it should alter its behavior in any way. This can all be done with payloads under a KB, and outbound data can easily be disguised.
At the end of the day though none of this matters because this is the fact: if you're in software as you've claimed, you should know that there is absolutely zero technical reason for why a GVA speaker needs to have its Bluetooth functionality disabled unless you've paired the speaker with your Google Account to Google Home. The simple fact that Google has intentionally severely restricted -- or in this case outright eliminated -- the functionality of a key advertised component of the product unless you've linked your product with their Google Account should be enough reason to raise suspicion with respect to Google's greater motives.
And as I've said prior: all of this would be even somewhat okay if B&O would be open and transparent about all this.
Ultimately everyone has a choice to make and that choice is theirs and theirs alone. There's definitely a lot you know which I don't, and there's definitely a lot I know which you don't. All we can do is make the best decision for ourselves based on our personal experiences and technical knowledge. And because everyone's usage patterns and expectations are different you cannot assume that just because your experiences are the same as mine. Again, I do not even have a Google account. So having to sign up for one just to enable Bluetooth is a major annoyance at the very least all for a limitation that shouldn't even exist.
At the end of the day I like to keep unnecessary online accounts to a bare minimum; it's basic security practice. And it doesn't matter how anyone wants to spin this, but needing an online account solely for Bluetooth is completely asinine. Again it makes me question what Google wants, because it's definitely not a technical limitation, absolutely no way in hell.
Anyway that's all I want to add, I've got my non-GVA speaker now and it's working like a charm. It could've always been this way :)
Frederik:I don't know where you are based, but in Belgium the Nordic Ice non-GVA is still in stock on the B&O website for delivery next day.
Curly:Balance Nordic Ice non-GVA is also available on USA website. :)
Curly:If for some reason the dealer won't order you what you want, then I'd imagine the response would be "I can buy this off B&O's website, but I'd prefer to give you my business." See what he says. :)
I did tell them that I saw the product available online but they were adamant that Denmark wouldn't let them order anymore; whether or not that's BS is a separate matter altogether but I've been having an extremely busy month and I just wanted to get this crap over and dealt with.
Honestly though the Gold Tone is gorgeous, I'm mostly just concerned about the longevity of the marble finish and how it'll age; also the Nordic Ice fits my interior decor a lot better but I guess the Gold Tone does stand out more as a statement piece, which I don't actually mind that much. There doesn't seem to be much in terms of protective coating over the marble surface (unlike my floor) though but I guess I'll just hope for the best and anyway I suspect that the electronics of the speaker will KO long before the marble finish starts to annoy me lol.
Just a small update: I've had my Balance for about a week now, and I definitely prefer it over the BeoSound 2. While I do somewhat get what people mean when the say the BS2 has more personality or is livelier, the Balance is a more accurate speaker (and this is with room compensation turned off (doesn't really work well in my environment, but I'm aware of the technical limitations of its implementation in the Balance)).
I'm also slowly getting used to the marble finish in my environment, I changed my lights in my room to be much MUCH warmer such that the gold highlights blends in really nicely now, definitely much happier with the non-GVA version.
Ultimately this is going to be a matter of preference for a lot of people though, but I'm happy with the Balance. That said the aluminum on the BS2 really is something, but having moved these two speakers around side-by-side the Balance is an absolute tank and the marble finish and the extra drivers definitely don't help here but damn it's insanely heavy.
The marble Balance is easily twice the weight.
All that extra heft does make the Balance have a much better grip with the surface its on though, my BS2 would noticeably vibrate when the volume went up but the Balance just sits there while it's everything else around the room that begins to vibrate haha.
All-in-all these are two excellent products and if you're in the market for either one you really have to listen to them in person, preferably at home. I was skeptical at first because it does seem that the general consensus here is that the BS2 is ever so slightly better, but I know that there are a few around here who actually prefer the Balance and that's the side I'm going to be on.
And finally thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread!
Good to hear you're happy with the choice. You are absolutely right that it is not as simple as one is better than the other. It's a matter of personal preference, but also of the environment where it is placed.
In general, it is almost like the Beosound 2 gives it own interpretation of the music it plays, like it is singing along, but in a very warm, pleasing way. The Balance is indeed more accurate and more precise and for sure more capable in larger rooms.
I had an opportunity last week to hear two Balances as a stereo pair and have to stay this sounded very impressive.
It's been interesting to follow your journey, BeoAnna, and that you've found a good compromise in the end. I am also very impressed with the sound and listening to it is almost an occasion for me. I like to sit down in front of it and just listen to good music. Sometimes also in stereo and multiroom.
I think Frederik has described the difference in sound quite well, in that the BS2 almost sings along warmly while the Balance seems more precise (after all, tech helps it more) with a hint more performance. I do miss the sound of the BS2 in the end so I am still hoping to get my hands on one later this year.
As for the Gold Tone Balance, I have found that in certain pictures it looked too harsh-looking to me, but whenever I have seen it here in the Oslo center store in soft light, it looks very special - of course in a good way. I almost wanted to buy one when it released, but I would have preferred to have silver aluminium disks on it. That would have made its presence come across more like a (stone) sculpture.
Marble does require some care, and for either my Walnut or Nordic Ice Balance I am also considering buying a marble pedestal. But I think that if you only intend to touch it with clean hands, then it should not be affected. Did you by the way have any instructions in the box for treating the marble? As you may know B&O usually includes instructions for how to look after the wood in their products that contain any wood.
I should also add that neither the aluminium on the Nordic Ice nor the walnut on my Bespoke are unimpacted.
For example, as I was about to reposition the Nordic Ice and I lifted up the Balance, the metal part of the plug at the end of its own power supply cable rubbed against the base, leaving a very subtle mark on the aluminium. I think it sucks because it is something that any customer would potentially do by accident. It is such a small and natural thing to happen and I cannot even recall having like REALLY scratched the end of the cable to the base. I always treat my B&O products with the most care :). It is not a visible scratch unless you look at it from a really close distance and from different angles so that light starts to play on it, but you would prefer not to have those "scratches".
Another example is that we use a dining table with a walnut top, and usually eating gets very messy with a 1.5-year-old :). Every time I go around thinking how all the sticky stuff needs to be wiped with a wet cloth, at which point the moisture will leave its mark on the walnut. We also have chairs with a sitting surface of oak and walnut, and both will become a bit shiny with use. We are talking about a long time of use, but you do notice it becoming slightly shiny on the edges especially. It is the wood aging :).
So as for my Bespoke with walnut, I think that too would be slightly impacted towards the bottom edges if I keep putting it from one place to the other - which I do for a different musical experience or different scenarios (stereo or multiroom or just standalone in a different spot for acoustics). But I do not see it as a problem comparable to the table situation :). I also wonder if this wood base would age even if I didn't touch it, such as the wood reacting to the temperature of the room and the moisture level over a longer time. In any case not in a very large way.
What I do find impressive is how the design of the Balance can be varied so well and where you could have different materials for different parts of it. Aluminium, wood, marble, not a problem. I wouldn't be surprised if it came one day with a limestone, sandstone or some other kind of stone base.
Last but not least I was wondering about how the aluminium surface of your BS2 has changed over time. I suppose it also gets some patina after a while if tiny "accidents" happen to it. It must stay quite fresh-looking if you do not cause any harm to it. At least I haven't noticed anything with my Beosound 1 Anthracite.
Haha an interesting journey it’s been indeed!
I actually think I was extremely lucky with my specific example of the marble on my Balance, it is very nicely textured and has lots of personality. It’s even rather imperfect at places, but that’s what I love about marble. My floor at home is marble as well! In many of the press photos the marble on the Balance looks too plain, whereas mine has a lot of texture. I’ll upload a photo or two later!
There was no care booklet that came with my Balance, was kinda half-expecting one lol but oh well. I’m pretty much never touching mine, I like to have all my belongings in mint condition for the entire time they’re under my care. My BeoSound 2 still looks fresh out of the box, but I also have my entire home solar filmed to reject over 99% of IR & UV such that nothing at home ever gets affected by sunlight. My environment is quite clinical, a lot of white, grey and little highlights of contrasting colour. If I didn’t solar film my windows things would start to get yellow after about 5-10 years, but everything still looks the same as the day I moved in. It also helps prevent sun damage to various polymers and so on.
I’m probably in the top 0.1% of extremely anal people on this planet, I’m extremely strict and careful with how I handle my belongings, especially anything with a decent price tag attached to it. I almost never touch my B&O other than a weekly gentle wipe with a mild detergent using a cloth that is dedicated for my B&O so that I don’t accidentally scratch the surface with any debris caught up in the cloth. This drives my partner nuts haha.
Sorry to hear about the scratch on your Balance though :( that would annoy me to no end as well. I’ve had little clumsy accidents happen as well to other products, so these days I always make sure my table is as clear as can be before handling anything, cables off as well.
The marble Balance is definitely not an easy match for most homes, but when it fits, it fits really well!
BeoAnna: Haha an interesting journey it’s been indeed! I actually think I was extremely lucky with my specific example of the marble on my Balance, it is very nicely textured and has lots of personality. It’s even rather imperfect at places, but that’s what I love about marble. My floor at home is marble as well! In many of the press photos the marble on the Balance looks too plain, whereas mine has a lot of texture. I’ll upload a photo or two later! There was no care booklet that came with my Balance, was kinda half-expecting one lol but oh well. I’m pretty much never touching mine, I like to have all my belongings in mint condition for the entire time they’re under my care. My BeoSound 2 still looks fresh out of the box, but I also have my entire home solar filmed to reject over 99% of IR & UV such that nothing at home ever gets affected by sunlight. My environment is quite clinical, a lot of white, grey and little highlights of contrasting colour. If I didn’t solar film my windows things would start to get yellow after about 5-10 years, but everything still looks the same as the day I moved in. It also helps prevent sun damage to various polymers and so on. I’m probably in the top 0.1% of extremely anal people on this planet, I’m extremely strict and careful with how I handle my belongings, especially anything with a decent price tag attached to it. I almost never touch my B&O other than a weekly gentle wipe with a mild detergent using a cloth that is dedicated for my B&O so that I don’t accidentally scratch the surface with any debris caught up in the cloth. This drives my partner nuts haha. Sorry to hear about the scratch on your Balance though :( that would annoy me to no end as well. I’ve had little clumsy accidents happen as well to other products, so these days I always make sure my table is as clear as can be before handling anything, cables off as well. The marble Balance is definitely not an easy match for most homes, but when it fits, it fits really well!
One thing that is interesting about the finish is that while it is a joy for the eyes, you do kind of want to just touch and feel the marble or the wood. For me especially the walnut because it is such a warm sensation. It's like food. Your brain gets stimulated by the memory of a taste, your eyes by the presentation of the dish, then you just want to dig in :). But it is similar to the aluminium finish of the Beosound 1/2 or the Nordic Ice Balance as well. You want to sometimes feel its cool to the touch just for the sheer sensation, no? Not like I do so much but, you know, every now and then you want to be a bit more physical and appreciate the craftsmanship.
Do please upload some photos, both close-ups and a wider perspective with the environment it sits in. You don't see the Gold Tone Balance so much photographed. I have also previously shared photos of my Bespoke walnut Balance here on the forum.
I thought I was a bit too particular about the finish of the base :). I could even see myself as someone asking for another Balance if I didn't like the pattern on the wood or marble :D. The process of making my walnut Bespoke version was very involving thanks to my dealer. Denmark shared a picture of the base with them that they were preparing for my Balance, while it was still just a walnut ring not attached to any other part. I loved the pattern on it and it could have been just a practice sample but it was the actual piece I got. When seeing it on the finish product, I couldn't have been happier.
I have also seen different aesthetic results on the standard oak Balance. I mean all of them look good but it is a personal preference what pattern you like more, and to me some of the finishes are fantastic while others are just very odd. There must be a psychological explanation to it, such as how different patterns describe your personality :). So it is very much the case with the marble. Maybe especially with the marble. I have been looking at buying a marble pedestal for my Balance and it is hard to pull the trigger on something as expensive as that that is only made to order, and you don't really know if you're going to like the finish. But chances are that you are going to like it.
Thanks, but the scratch is really nothing on my Nordic Ice. I might even be able to polish it away with a cloth. I just haven't tried yet. Even if I cannot, the plug on the cable almost didn't touch the surface, so it never looked like a repair case to me. If it cannot take "that" much handling, then you would never be able to touch your speaker. So this is a calculated wear or patina. It will be mine much more :).
Csaba:One thing that is interesting about the finish is that while it is a joy for the eyes, you do kind of want to just touch and feel the marble or the wood. For me especially the walnut because it is such a warm sensation. It's like food. Your brain gets stimulated by the memory of a taste, your eyes by the presentation of the dish, then you just want to dig in :). But it is similar to the aluminium finish of the Beosound 1/2 or the Nordic Ice Balance as well. You want to sometimes feel its cool to the touch just for the sheer sensation, no? Not like I do so much but, you know, every now and then you want to be a bit more physical and appreciate the craftsmanship.
Haha, happy to learn I am not the only one petting my Beosound 2
Frederik: Haha, happy to learn I am not the only one petting my Beosound 2
It is probably something that everybody does but nobody talks about . I chose to be open about it!