ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
So it happend again, big price raises.
Not surprising in the climate we are in now.
Beolab 90 is now 100.000€
Funny thing the special edition A1 Cloth are now cheaper in Denmark than the normal version. In € it is now the same price.
Beovision Harmony 77" 2nd Gen, Beolab 5, Beolab 17, Beosound 1, Beoplay M3, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay Earset, Beoliving Intelligence
Emil Jensen: So it happend again, big price raises. Not surprising in the climate we are in now. Beolab 90 is now 100.000€ Funny thing the special edition A1 Cloth are now cheaper in Denmark than the normal version. In € it is now the same price.
Yeah, same in Norway of course. Beosound 2 shocked me a bit, increased from 22990 NOK, which was already 2000 more than the Balance, to 27990. The Balance has not increased this much. And of course past a ceetain price it doesn’t matter so much any more how much you need to pay. Maybe the more the merrier - for some :).
BS2 in the US is now $3000. This makes me laugh. Value is relative but... that thing is not a $3k speaker, IMHO.
BL28 has not changed in US. That's good. But big increase in Norway. From 120,000 to 137,500.
Currently: BeoLab 17, BeoLab 18, BeoSound Core, Beosound Level, Beosound A1 2nd Gen, BeoPlay S8 Connection Hub, Halo, Essence Remote
Previously: BeoSound 1 non-GVA
Yikes - stuff getting a bit silly price wise (or more silly!)
Just had.a look at my A9 MK2.
A9 MK1 release price (late 2012) =. 1700 GBP
A9 MK2 bought mine in 2014/15 =. 1750 GBP (anniversary edition)
A9 MK4 now on &O website = 2700 GBP (regular edition, rose gold etc are more)
Lets call that 50% more expensive in last 5 years.
Ouch.
Curly: BS2 in the US is now $3000. This makes me laugh. Value is relative but... that thing is not a $3k speaker, IMHO. BL28 has not changed in US. That's good. But big increase in Norway. From 120,000 to 137,500.
Curly:BS2 in the US is now $3000. This makes me laugh. Value is relative but... that thing is not a $3k speaker, IMHO. BL28 has not changed in US. That's good. But big increase in Norway. From 120,000 to 137,500. Currently: BeoLab 17, BeoLab 18, BeoSound Core, Beosound Level, Beosound A1 2nd Gen, BeoPlay S8 Connection Hub, Halo, Essence Remote Previously: BeoSound 1 non-GVA
I absolutely love 90's but I am not sure I would class them as 100,000 euro speakers...
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
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Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
Lets do another comparison (of something I own).
BS2 (regular, brushed aluminium), bought on release in late 2016 =. 1350 GBP
BS2 (regular, brushed aluminium) now = 1900 GBP.
40% price rise in 5 years.
Guess circa 10% per year is not news - that said, not sure I'd ever have bought my A9 and BS2 if they were a (now) combined 4600 GBP, as opposed to the (combined) 3100 GBP I spent on them.
Mikipidia: I absolutely love 90's but I am not sure I would class them as 100,000 euro speakers...
It’s not.
it’s a €40k loudspeaker set with €40k amp/pre-amp inside
I remember the days when they were 65 of 70 grand, which was steep but made some kind of sense. Even 75 was like, ok, I get it, then 85 which was a bit of a head scratcher. But now we've arrived at 100 grand...
Mikipidia: I remember the days when they were 65 of 70 grand, which was steep but made some kind of sense. Even 75 was like, ok, I get it, then 85 which was a bit of a head scratcher. But now we've arrived at 100 grand...
Aging well like a fine wine too? ;)
Some of these price increases are just nuts, especially if you know that most products have increased in price several times over the last years.
I love my A9 and BS2, but these are now priced at 3299 and 2799 euro (or even 2999 for BS2 natural with google voice). I am not sure if I would have pulled the trigger for these prices, and that probably applies to many others. At some point the increased margin will be undone by a decrease in sales numbers. This feels like a dangerous bet.
Let's see how sales goes at 100 vs 75K. Maybe B&O sells it like hot cakes, or perhaps they sell zero. Either way, I wish B&O all the best with that price policy.
Sad story is: my dealer always asks why I buy things online and at (strong) discount? Well, because I buy things at their meaningful price. Either you (B&O) will offer it to me or I will go to someone who does.
...and there is one more thing related to a price increase: not everyone who wants to buy a highend product will happily entertain it (out of a principle, I guess) 😎👍🏻
AnalogPlanet: Let's see how sales goes at 100 vs 75K. Maybe B&O sells it like hot cakes, or perhaps they sell zero. Either way, I wish B&O all the best with that price policy. Sad story is: my dealer always asks why I buy things online and at (strong) discount? Well, because I buy things at their meaningful price. Either you (B&O) will offer it to me or I will go to someone who does.
Im not 100% certain but I believe the BL90s are made to order only?
Perhaps B&O products are considered Veblen goods, if the price rises people want them even more! (Some high end Swiss watch brands are maximizing this economical effect…)
Beosound Balance is now £2099 on the UK B&O site... wasn't it £1750 or so afew weeks ago?
Same for Level, £1149 the black and £1399 the wood/golden one.. I believe they used to be slightly more than 1000 the black and definitely less than 1300 the gold.
Annoying 😑
Oh, Beoplay H95 went from 700 to £779. The only heaphones to have had a price increase, as of now.
Also Beolit 20 (449 to 549), Beosound A1 2nd Gen (199 to 239), and basically everything else in the speaker category except Emerge (which I'm sure will get its price raised once it returns to production).
So sad.
EDIT: in mainland Europe, Beosound A1 is now €300 and a gold Emerge is €750. LOL. Those are just crazy.
H95 from 800 to 899€.
I also don't like that, after a period where they had "luxury" prices with round numbers (1750, 450, etc), now they've gone back to 899, 2099, 549, etc. Very pathetic. Do B&O really need to use these cheap mind tricks to sell? If so, I'll have to re-evaluate their situation.
The price rise comes in the face of:
These are all the critical components of a good business model and with the erosion of these facets any business slowly but steadily approaches its end. Their speaker division is still strong but once the gems like Geoff and colleagues leave, retire or move on, then what...sad state of affairs.
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Present: BL90, Core, BL6000, CD7000, Beogram 7000, Essence Remote.
Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, BC2, BS5, BV5, BV4-50, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4, Moment.
The Beosound Stage was a promising soundbar for new customers.
1500€ was a good price for newcomers. In the middle off 2021 the price went up to 1599€.
Now the price is starting at 1799€. 300€ in one year.
Well, the new customers will go to Sennheiser, B&W, Sonos or Bose.
I don’t think it’s still attractive for non-B&O customers and with the old customers more and more complaining about the brand’s quality and customer service I don’t see a bright future…..
Quite - hard to argue with any of that, which I'd summarise as "stuff that justifies a steep price premium, if provided"
Living in London, I can still get good service, but appreciate that many dont have that luxury and convenience.
They still can occasionally produce pretty decent designs and products - be that the recent Level and 28s, and the 50s / 90s remain exceptional products, albeit out of reach of many. But, and this is a point I have made previously, your list above highlights how much they need to produce strong designs, otherwise the steep / rising price premium gets harder to justify.
Very little of their recent stuff could be described as classic B&O design - the last classic being the A9 and BL18s, both close to 10 years old.
Since then, we've had some pretty decent designs (Level, 28s, 90s), some nice enough (50s, Avants) and plenty of the downright odd (Eclipse, Harmony, Balance, Emerge), but nothing that sits alongside their design classics.
But thats just me - I'll forgive certain shortcomings if the designs are amazing, but they havent been for quite a while now.
seethroughyou: The price rise comes in the face of: poor to non-existent customer care - when I called them before Xmas they were polite but useless. deteriorating build quality selling or abandoning of core B&O skills like their TV laboratory and vision department use of cheap parts wrapped in fancy packing (my Moment tablet has died less than 2 years since purchase) outsourcing and manufacturing outside of Denmark closing of B&O stores absence of servicing and timely repairs of products These are all the critical components of a good business model and with the erosion of these facets any business slowly but steadily approaches its end. Their speaker division is still strong but once the gems like Geoff and colleagues leave, retire or move on, then what...sad state of affairs.
seethroughyou:selling or abandoning of core B&O skills like their TV laboratory and vision department
Mr 10Percent: Im not 100% certain but I believe the BL90s are made to order only?
I think you are right for 90s, and most certainly they are not available as an online buy. I was more thinking about products in the range up to a couple of K EUR.
Now back to the original topic: as much as we are all unhappy and disappointed with this price hike, it is fair to say that global supply shortage of electronic components is a certain catalyst - not that B&O wasn't regularly rising their prices even before it, but still. I would just wish that my income is following that trend.
Curly: BS2 in the US is now $3000. This makes me laugh. Value is relative but... that thing is not a $3k speaker, IMHO.
Not when I bought my two BS2's for £900 (Green, non-GA) and £1250 (Natural, with GA) in early 2020. There were deals galore then, if you got in quickly. Both were brand new. The same BS2 with GA in Natural is...£2299 today. wow.
I guess this is inventory due to the chip shortages and demand. ie. if B&O can only produce small numbers, but they are selling out, then simply put the price up so you many more money from your limited stock.
pentalex: The Beosound Stage was a promising soundbar for new customers. 1500€ was a good price for newcomers. In the middle off 2021 the price went up to 1599€. Now the price is starting at 1799€.
Now the price is starting at 1799€.
Yes, but demand outstrips supply and, as I said above, B&O is probably making a calculated guess that the demand will allow them to sell (a limited) supply with a price increase.
Also, on top, I bet it costs B&O far more money to ship these from China, too. Lots of things we overlook.
Are there any other shortages than chip shortage? In addition, last year I heard that wood was becoming quite expensive too. Not sure about aluminium.
I can imagine there are additional factors impacting this price increase. Regular price increase adjusted according to irregular circumstances.
If that’s the case, why is it for other brands doable to keep the price increase limited? They also need chips and a lot if their products or parts are produced in China too.
Prices for the LG oled tv’s didn’t went up with 300€….
This forum is very knowledgeable. I was purely asking you guys with more insight than what I have :). I have no overview of «other brands». I love Leica camera too and their prices also keep climbing every time they make something new that is predictably better. But we are also talking about luxury brands, so who knows where the borderline goes between necessary price increase and the increase caused by what they think they can set knowing/assuming people will buy their products anyway. «Increasing because we must» vs. «… because we can».
Csaba: This forum is very knowledgeable. I was purely asking you guys with more insight than what I have :). I have no overview of «other brands». I love Leica camera too and their prices also keep climbing every time they make something new that is predictably better. But we are also talking about luxury brands, so who knows where the borderline goes between necessary price increase and the increase caused by what they think they can set knowing/assuming people will buy their products anyway. «Increasing because we must» vs. «… because we can».
Back to economics 101, I watch several what we would call luxury brands. As you say, Leica, Rolex, Omega, B&O...and a few others.
Commenting on a watch forum yesterday, a forum member was complaining over the increases on an Omega Seamaster. something along the lines of....."2003, Omega was £1000, now its £4000" and if it followed the CPI and Swiss Franc etc....it should only be something around £1600.
That is correct of course but the CPI is there to make us little people feel as if we, the people are the cause of inflation. The CPI is a "select" basket of goods (all the ones getting cheaper and nothing important like power and housing).
The reality is if one was to look at M1 or M2 money supply (BoE, ECB or the Fed), between 2003 and 2021, M2 money has increase 350%. This explains a good deal of that Omega watch price rise.
In another context, I heard anecdotally, that 40% of all the US Dollars ever made were printed in 2021.
Wanna know why the price increases? Your GBP/EUR/USD etc....has been seriously deflated with excess and unbacked money printing. It not that the value of these (B&O) depreciating assets are increasing/inflating....its because your national currency is now worth chicken sh... and you need so much more of them to buy the same hard assets (whether a depreciating asset or the hard value material that was used to make them i.e. Aluminium, copper, oil, power, silicon etc...).
It is only a matter of time before more mainstream and larger brands start similar price hikes. Welkom Weimar2!
That’s a good point! Price increase ‘because we must’ is a worldwide problem due to shortcomings.
But B&O’s quality isn’t that good anymore and give your brand a huge price increase ‘because we can’ is in my opinion not the right way.
Since 1987 i only bought B&O hifi and video products. At the beginning i was very happy with the quality and price.
Looking now at other high end brands, i see their quality / price is much better than B&O.
McIntosh products are now in some cases cheaper than B&O! Why? Because they produce in the USA and not China?
I really love the B&O brand for years, but i don’t suffer brand blindness and really think my next hifi system will not be B&O, but something like Linn, McIntosh or Accuphase.
Stereophile article on this very subject
https://www.stereophile.com/content/retales-16-prices-and-patience
moxxey: pentalex: The Beosound Stage was a promising soundbar for new customers. 1500€ was a good price for newcomers. In the middle off 2021 the price went up to 1599€. Now the price is starting at 1799€. Yes, but demand outstrips supply and, as I said above, B&O is probably making a calculated guess that the demand will allow them to sell (a limited) supply with a price increase. Also, on top, I bet it costs B&O far more money to ship these from China, too. Lots of things we overlook.
Are the Beosound speakers no longer produced in Czech Republic by Tymphany?
matteventu: moxxey: pentalex: The Beosound Stage was a promising soundbar for new customers. 1500€ was a good price for newcomers. In the middle off 2021 the price went up to 1599€. Now the price is starting at 1799€. Yes, but demand outstrips supply and, as I said above, B&O is probably making a calculated guess that the demand will allow them to sell (a limited) supply with a price increase. Also, on top, I bet it costs B&O far more money to ship these from China, too. Lots of things we overlook. Are the Beosound speakers no longer produced in Czech Republic by Tymphany?
All of them? I'd imagine some models are made in Europe while others in China. I might be wrong. Two of my Balances was made in China according to its tag, but my Bespoke one was made in Denmark as I was told by my dealer. But even that gets me thinking.
Cause what is "made" anyway? Assembled? Made entirely? I doubt it is the latter. Kvadrat fabric? Possibly not only designed in Denmark but also made. Wood? Not sure about all the models but probably it is not only Beolab speakers and Beovisions that get their wood components from B&O's long-time Danish supplier. Other Beosound speakers I am not sure about is the Beosound 1 and 2. The aluminium has got to be made in Denmark at least. Then of course we also have the electronics.
So the term "made in" is a bit of an odd one. For me, as an ordinary mortal customer :). More accurately it would be Designed in, Assembled in, With materials from... Or something like that :).
BV Harmony 65 / Eclipse 55 / BL 50 / 19 / 18 / BS 2 all brass
BV Horizon 48 / V1 40 / BL 17 / Beoplay S3 all black
V1 / BL 3 / BS Essence MKII / Beoplay A3 all white
BS Moment / BS 3000 / BS 3200 / BL 400 all silver
Headphones / bluetooth speakers / BLC NL-ML / BLGateway
I know…B&O virus has grown on me !
People here in the Netherlands who are renovating or redecorating their house are suffering from the prices that rise like crazy.
A stupid simple wooden plank that tripled the price, not to mention plastic drain pipes that are simply hard to get. And if they are availlable at all, don't mention the price...
So it is not odd that B&O has to raise their prices.
On the other hand I don't think that materials for the BL90 became so much expensive that a 15000 price rise for a set is feasabl
Shipping costs for a 40" container from China to UK is between $12000 and $18000.
A 360% rise aparently.
Beosound 5 Encore, Beolab 3, Beolab 11, Beosound Balance Non GVA, H9i