ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Chris:I recognize myself in the previous words.One month ago my Jukebox finally give up (again) and I'm not planning to replace it for a third time.This is the worst buy I did from this company and I'm not planning to buy further goods from them. I was one of the first Moment buyers and helped B&O Denmark endlessly to get this audio component working as it should. Never get any thank you or note to thank me from them.I was used as a beta tester... Bye Bye, B&O."Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
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Present: BL90, Core, BL6000, CD7000, Beogram 7000, Essence Remote.
Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, BC2, BS5, BV5, BV4-50, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4, Moment.
Ask for spare parts and a service manual.That'll tell you.
Martin
100% agree.
B&O was once known for top quality products, unrivalled customer service and high prices. All that is left are high prices, the rest is gone. I seriously doubt that this is a sustainable business model. Good luck B&O, you will not be getting any more money out of me.
After 25 years of being a loyal customer, I am cutting the ties.
Interesting to see this thread and I'm surprised it hasn't had more discussion to be honest.
Do most people feel exactly the same and are actually past caring to the point they can't even be bothered to join in the discussion, or do people disagree and dismiss this as not being the case at all?
Could you say, if you feel this is true, that B&O simply have to do what they have to do to survive? If they become profitable again will they then focus on high quality items to keep for many years - or has the pace of technology simply outdated that romantic notion?
We saw B&O go totally 'tinpot' the last time they were in real trouble. Look at the BeoCenter 2100 and a pair of X25's.. Absolute crap turned out by a company in severe trouble riding their reputation and their loyal customers... but it worked. After that, boom times of the BeoSound 9000, Avant, BeoLab 8000's and so on. People forgot about the junk then.
However, if B&O has indeed switched to mass-market, unreliable, disposable garbage with a few flagship products to act as the braces to hold up the trousers - then what next? What does the future hold for Bang & Olufsen as a company, and more importantly as a brand?
Lee
‘If you can't stand the heat, just get out of the kitchen' - it is as simple as that!
Do we really need another thread where the same person(s) complain about what B&O currently is doing?
If you don’t find anything that suits you, stick to the/your old stuff or go looking somewhere else.
Be happy with whatever you choose.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen:Be happy with whatever you choose.
I'm sure he'd like to choose B&O, hence the frustration and comments on here.
Isn't a forum about discussing the good things as well as the bad things rather than just blindly worship?
I am on a football forum. When we lose, people complain about the performance of the players or the tactics of the manager. Therefore, if we lose - should I just go and support another team?!
@9 LEE
You asked for a contribution to the thread….there you got it.
Let’s see, if others agree/disagree.
Millemissen: ‘If you can't stand the heat, just get out of the kitchen' - it is as simple as that!
That my Cat is why B&O are up a creek without a paddle.
Make good products >> keep arrogantly to your own standards >> price yourself out of the market >> come back to industry standards (behind the 8 ball).
Lose/Haemorrhage cash >> stop servicing equipment >> Die a slow death.
As a quick side note. I am for now, very fortunate and in a financially comfortable place. I suspect better placed than many. I can and have afforded many of the flagship products over the last 20-30 years. I don't believe in changing a TV every two minutes to be the latest and greatest in disposable electronics because some marketing team got shoved to invent something nobody wanted but needed to sell. I purchased B&O because of longevity of product and because it sounded good.
1. B&O is generally not serviceable. It is a disposable product.
2. It (with one or two exceptions) does not sound particularly good or cutting edge (source and loudspeaker) either.
So why am I buying again?
Simply put, B&O is focussing on making boom-boxes with Bluetooth that sound good to Millennials i.e. better than the completion but it is not HiFi anymore and it is only a matter of time before the Competition figures out how to make their own gear better at half the price before that revenue stream finally dries up as well.
It is coming and it shocks me how much in denial a lot of people in this forum (and at B&O) are to this.
Millemissen: ‘If you can't stand the heat, just get out of the kitchen' - it is as simple as that! Do we really need another thread where the same person(s) complain about what B&O currently is doing? If you don’t find anything that suits you, stick to the/your old stuff or go looking somewhere else. Be happy with whatever you choose. MM
The worst thing that can happen to a product and a person alike is indifference. Customers who complain have an emotional relationship with the brand and the product. So, they can be positively influenced with the proper action taken by customer service.
Indifferent customers, however, are lost customers, because they simply don't care anymore.
And mind you...behind every dissatisfied customer that voices his/her discontent there are between 5 and 20 more unhappy customers who don't bother complaining.
Of course, you are entitled to keep wearing your rose-tinted glasses. I don't think you do a good service to B&O with that attitude. But hey, I may be wrong. To each his own.
schatzoy: Millemissen: ‘If you can't stand the heat, just get out of the kitchen' - it is as simple as that! Do we really need another thread where the same person(s) complain about what B&O currently is doing? If you don’t find anything that suits you, stick to the/your old stuff or go looking somewhere else. Be happy with whatever you choose. MM The worst thing that can happen to a product and a person alike is indifference. Customers who complain have an emotional relationship with the brand and the product. So, they can be positively influenced with the proper action taken by customer service. Indifferent customers, however, are lost customers, because they simply don't care anymore. And mind you...behind every dissatisfied customer that voices his/her discontent there are between 5 and 20 more unhappy customers who don't bother complaining. Of course, you are entitled to keep wearing your rose-tinted glasses. I don't think you do a good service to B&O with that attitude. But hey, I may be wrong. To each his own.
Complaints are worth nothing (apart from letting steam off, of course).
I want to see (read) some positive critisism….with profound suggestions how to do things better.
According to your previous posts, you ditched B&O long ago, so why worry?
By the way - we might just as well never hear from the happy costumers - mostly people only come around to complain (on Beoworld more than ever, it seems).
Yes, you are wrong - each to his own.
I (still) find options with the B&O gear, that I could never find with products from other companies…..be it because of a sw update or just because I did not think of the possibilities yet.
They recently released a new software that makes the new Mozart platform work pretty seamless with the older NL/ASE platform.
Just as they made a converter, that made it possible to integrate older ML products with the then new NL products…..just as the did when the products moved from MCL to ML.
Lots of things going on behind the scenes - however, if you don’t need that, it does not matter…I guess.
I don’t need all the new IE and headphones, they make and I have no use for new streaming speakers (my setup is pretty complete as of now).
But I appreciate, that they are keeping on inventing - some day I might need something new….and the newcomers certainly aren’t interested in the old stuff from yesteryear - no matter how much of that has found a place in art museums around the world.
Things are moving on, B&O as a company is trying to keep up. And they need to sell products to survive - to pay their staff and to keep on investing in hard- and software development…..even if you - or I - don’t like/need what the currently sell.
Be positive - make good suggestions….and you might even not need any glasses - tinted or black.
schatzoy: The worst thing that can happen to a product and a person alike is indifference...
The worst thing that can happen to a product and a person alike is indifference...
... which was one of my points and the reason I gave the thread a good prod with a pointed stick.
For reasons of balance and impartiality I will highlight that generally people hit the review sites to vent if they're unhappy and cannot find a resolution to their issues. The people who are completely happy, in contrast, just get on and enjoy their products.
Looking at reviews on Trustpilot they get 3.5 out of 5 overall. This ranks as 'Average' and is on the whole a place where people seem to be venting about poor customer service when experienced.
I suppose it's a chicken and egg thing and you really cannot win. Make cheaply constructed disposable products which sell by the pallet-load, then get a deluge of people complaining when they go wrong. In that case, you need a pretty slick operation when it comes to customer support and returns. They do not have this.
Or, build products properly, be forced to charge a much higher price, and sell a lot less of them....
No doubt the Moment has left quite a few customers with long lasting scars.
Leaving that behind, and the Android OS BVs, is a good thing thankfully but I'm far less convinced than some here that "B&O is knocking it out of the park now" or that "their software prowess has become really good". Restoring NL after 18months is great, but hardly a win just getting back to where they were!
I dont actually mind that they release lots of lower end BT / wireless / portable speakers - whether or not it fits in with your view of what hifi is, thats been the big growing sector of the market, and it would have been silly of them to ignore it. And they've done relatively well out of those types of products.
The bigger question for me relates to their mid and higher end product line up. The yearly 10% price rises (not just the recent ones, which I think we all see the reasons for) will soon leave (if you allow some reasonable guesswork) their mid / high end products out of reach or just not sensible, so expensive have they become.
Outside of my 2 main rooms I have a BS2 and A9 MK2 - I was happy enough to pay 3000GBP for the pair back in 2015, and early 2017, but now the pair would be 4600 GBP....just too much for supplementary occasional speakers for other rooms.
Coming back to the Moment, once I sold mine, I had to look elsewhere for the music experience I wanted - a good streaming and vinyl experience. Roon (Nucleus server) and Linn got my money, via an incredibly good streamer / DAC and LP12 vinyl player. For my main lounge thats 7000GBP that Linn got - money that I'd have been happy to give B&O if they had nicely designed products with broadly the same functionality. Their loss, not mine. A Core is a sub standard offering for some of those with 50s / 90s (and I dare say 28s now).
Maybe B&O may have enough market knowledge to regard me as a niche (not a Deezer user, wanting a more involving music experience, not wanting to start predetermined music from a Halo), and happy to leave me to go elsewhere as I did.
But with the user experience in some cases being narrow, their designs will have be incredibly attractive to keep me - otherwise I'll stick with my 50s (great product), and when it comes to my BVs, replace them with something else when the time comes.
And their designs have been hit and miss, and nothing that will be regarded as classic since the A9. Yes the Level is very nice, but the rest have been poor (Balance? Emerge? Eclipse? Edge?)
So no, I dont think its all disposable crap they produce - much of it is still very nice. But with the accumulation of price rises, the absence of knockout designs and still limited music functionality makes the whole proposition hard to rationalise.
Its very much on the cards that the company will need to go back to investors for a further cash injection in a few years - a prospect that some of the staunch defendants here seemingly cant foresee.
seethroughyou: Chris: I recognize myself in the previous words. One month ago my Jukebox finally give up (again) and I'm not planning to replace it for a third time. This is the worst buy I did from this company and I'm not planning to buy further goods from them. I was one of the first Moment buyers and helped B&O Denmark endlessly to get this audio component working as it should. Never get any thank you or note to thank me from them. I was used as a beta tester... Bye Bye, B&O. "Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth." B&O have lost all interest in the Moment using the excuse EOL. It went EOL because they lost interest in fixing the problems of their own making/design. Like you, I haven’t bought anything since and have no intention. I love B&O of the past and their speakers but it’s difficult to be fan when you respect only one line of product in their catalogue. I have had a great deal of affection in the past for the brand but like many this is being eroded. Lack of long-term servicing, software issues, poor parts and reliability, non-existent customer service, obsession over form over function…Aside from their speakers, I can’t but help conclude that B&O is increasingly the purveyor of disposable hifi. As I age, I’ve realised I want more. Look at the old Beogram CD players and record players - the build quality, use of discrete components, the fit and finish of the PCBs, etc… No more! It’s now cheap and nasty parts, shoddy build, incomplete ideas and after a few years you are supposed to bin it when it dies prematurely.
Chris: I recognize myself in the previous words. One month ago my Jukebox finally give up (again) and I'm not planning to replace it for a third time. This is the worst buy I did from this company and I'm not planning to buy further goods from them. I was one of the first Moment buyers and helped B&O Denmark endlessly to get this audio component working as it should. Never get any thank you or note to thank me from them. I was used as a beta tester... Bye Bye, B&O. "Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
I recognize myself in the previous words.
One month ago my Jukebox finally give up (again) and I'm not planning to replace it for a third time.
This is the worst buy I did from this company and I'm not planning to buy further goods from them. I was one of the first Moment buyers and helped B&O Denmark endlessly to get this audio component working as it should. Never get any thank you or note to thank me from them.
I was used as a beta tester... Bye Bye, B&O.
"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
B&O have lost all interest in the Moment using the excuse EOL. It went EOL because they lost interest in fixing the problems of their own making/design.
Like you, I haven’t bought anything since and have no intention. I love B&O of the past and their speakers but it’s difficult to be fan when you respect only one line of product in their catalogue. I have had a great deal of affection in the past for the brand but like many this is being eroded. Lack of long-term servicing, software issues, poor parts and reliability, non-existent customer service, obsession over form over function…Aside from their speakers, I can’t but help conclude that B&O is increasingly the purveyor of disposable hifi. As I age, I’ve realised I want more. Look at the old Beogram CD players and record players - the build quality, use of discrete components, the fit and finish of the PCBs, etc… No more! It’s now cheap and nasty parts, shoddy build, incomplete ideas and after a few years you are supposed to bin it when it dies prematurely.
Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5
Razlaw: Technology changes rapidly. B and O is not the only company that has new technology outdate products. For instance, the early 2021 Tesla Model X and S do not support the latest technology and updates that the refreshed late 2021 and 2022 models S and X do. Same complaints as here on Tesla forum. How could I spend $100,000 on a car that is outdated six months later. Tesla has even officially named the early 2021 S and X, and earlier years “Legacy”. Software updates are now divided between Legacy models and new models. Imagine the complaints from the complainers there about a 6 month old $100,000 purchase already being considered a “Legacy” product.
Technology changes rapidly. B and O is not the only company that has new technology outdate products. For instance, the early 2021 Tesla Model X and S do not support the latest technology and updates that the refreshed late 2021 and 2022 models S and X do. Same complaints as here on Tesla forum. How could I spend $100,000 on a car that is outdated six months later. Tesla has even officially named the early 2021 S and X, and earlier years “Legacy”. Software updates are now divided between Legacy models and new models. Imagine the complaints from the complainers there about a 6 month old $100,000 purchase already being considered a “Legacy” product.
... which is the reason I wouldn't even contemplate buying a Tesla.
Other companies far bigger and more glamorous than B&O acting like this doesn't exactly make it okay.. It will ultimately bite them.
Initially I was spitting feathers when Tesla went CCS: customers had to fork out an additional sum for the kit and without it the Supercharger network looked small. But the company sent an email saying their "CCS Charging Upgrade was available" and would I like to book an appointment via the app.
There are other examples of the tech moving and Tesla allowing owners to move with it. They updated the internal MCU a few years back and, because my Model S has an earlier, Intel Atom-based board, the firmware is stuck with 2020 as a build date. This is exactly like my BeoSystem which says 2017, or my Horizon which is stuck at 2019 with none of the apps working. We all know these are dead ends.
But the car, which is older and more complicated, is not. The tech can still be upgraded for a fee and I suspect this is actually what keeps them from being bitten.
I do still like B&O speakers, regardless of firmware date
Beovision Horizon 48, Beolab 17, Beolab 19, Core, Beosound Stage w/ Sony, BeoSystem 4, Beoplay M3
9 LEE:... which is the reason I wouldn't even contemplate buying a Tesla.Other companies far bigger and more glamorous than B&O acting like this doesn't exactly make it okay.. It will ultimately bite them.
Also perhaps why the Tesla example isn't exactly right here.
The Moment stopped doing all is was supposed to do or in fact did.
A 2021 Tesla hasn't had promised functionality removed (?) or sopped doing some things it did at launch?
The B&O parallel would be the 22 Tesla having park assist removed (whilst maintained on the 21 model) and then getting it back 18 months later......think Network Link.
Razlaw: 9 LEE: ... which is the reason I wouldn't even contemplate buying a Tesla. Other companies far bigger and more glamorous than B&O acting like this doesn't exactly make it okay.. It will ultimately bite them. Perhaps, perhaps not. For right now I am thrilled with my 2021 Tesla and eagerly awaiting delivery of my 2022 Tesla. My gasoline powered car seems like an antique relic now. Some people like change and progress. Some don’t. Each to their own. And those people with 2021 Legacy Teslas are still getting updates and improvements regularly. Is there any other car manufacturer who constantly provides new features and new interface functions to existing cars? Pretty hard to update knobs and dials which is why the answer to that question is no.
9 LEE: ... which is the reason I wouldn't even contemplate buying a Tesla. Other companies far bigger and more glamorous than B&O acting like this doesn't exactly make it okay.. It will ultimately bite them.
Perhaps, perhaps not. For right now I am thrilled with my 2021 Tesla and eagerly awaiting delivery of my 2022 Tesla. My gasoline powered car seems like an antique relic now. Some people like change and progress. Some don’t. Each to their own.
And those people with 2021 Legacy Teslas are still getting updates and improvements regularly.
Is there any other car manufacturer who constantly provides new features and new interface functions to existing cars? Pretty hard to update knobs and dials which is why the answer to that question is no.
9 LEE: ... which is the reason I wouldn't even contemplate buying a Tesla.
Off-topic but i could not resist.
1. The future is hydrogen combustion. That is if our respective Governments actually allow us to have personal chariots.
2. We cannot extract enough Rare Earths to power a green world using wind, electricity, and motors etc.. PERIOD
3. There would need to be massive Worldwide copper extraction to place the distribution system to charge EVs at most homes. I'll bet a few more % in EV growth and the whole lot will collapse without the infrastructure
4. EV Lithium batteries currently last 7 years before the whole vehicle is a write-off. some serious design and recycling changes will have to happen soon.
5. Hydrogen does not need Rare Earths. Combust in modified Internal combustion Engine
6. Distribution systems are all in place. The transport/storage tankers (or in-situ H2 crackers) in fill stations is probably a lot easier to do than copper EV charging.
...so back to Tesla. They are the VHS video format when Betamax should rule and some time off large capacity Tb capacity solid state drives.
Look what Tesla owner done🤬🤣. https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/26/22853573/tesla-model-s-explosion-repair-bill
Razlaw:Great video……saw it a week or two ago.
Let's hope someone doesn't do that with some Bang & Olufsen...
Anyway, let's get back on track here.
My thoughts on the matter. I always loved the B&O experience. Nice looking, good sounding and a good user experience. But when I finally had the means to buy a B&O tv, I got the Horizon, and boy was that bad. It was, for me, very expensive so the disappointment was even greater. After a few months of it breaking down and no real effort from B&O to do anything about it I sold all my B&O equipment. It was only after we moved to Denmark two years ago that I did consider them again. And it was because a) I really liked the LG Beosound Stage combo and b) I have a B&O dealer almost next door. For a small living room that is a very nice system. But trust is not regained and I do not think I will ever look at their more expensive products. I would love a pair of Beolab 28s but it being an integrated system there is just too much that can go wrong with it and I just do not think B&O will be there for me when thinks go wrong.
I was going to sit this one out... after all, any one on this forum for years has been around this block many times.. However, when our kind host specifically asks for more discussion, I will try to oblige.
B&O today is different than years ago. It has to be. Kids don't buy "stereos" anymore. My son didn't want my spare BL4000s or BL8000s when he moved to his new apartment (too big, too flashy, too much for his little place - especially when you have to find outlets and run cables, etc.). He's happy with the old-generation BS1 I gave him when he went to college... so he's not totally foolish.
After less than stellar experiences with a BV8 and some BL Wireless 1s, I said "No more B&O". Years pass. Then, after months of trying NOT to buy an Eclipse, I bought one because every other option I considered had too many compromises. Then, they closed my local store, and I said "No more B&O". Years pass. Then, I bought a new gen BS1 because it fit my requirements much better than anything else I could find. Then, I walked away and said, "I'm done", as I have music everywhere in my house that I want it. Lately, I started thinking about a stereo pair of Balances to replace a gen1 BS2 in my office, but BL28 and above are out of the question as I hardly listen to my BL1s anymore, and I doubt if I'll actually spring for the Balances unless I walk into a crazy good deal...
What's my point? I'm not sure. Times change. Companies change (although some personalities on this site do seem to change ) Every time I say "I'm done", I end up finding a reason to buy more. Also, lately, I've been quite pleased with the performance of my B&O kit so they are doing some things right. One of the qualities that always attracted me to B&O was their "long game". Build with quality and durability so it lasts decades rather than years. However, it seems like most companies on this track have gone out of business or have become extremely expensive. I'm just glad I don't have to figure out how to chart B&O's course through today's market.
One can't keep harking back to products 25 years ago. Those products wouldn't sell today, people's wants have changed. I am one of the very few people in my group of friends that has stereo speakers. They all use bluetooth speakers or a soundbar. Whether we agree or not that is what the majority want and probably can afford.
I have never found B&O to be a purveyor of disposable hifi, I think that is completely off the mark. Now and again they make a product that isn't quite what it should be but that has always been the case. When a company is trying to be extremely innovative and out the box it can go a bit wrong. I am ok with that as the majority of B&O products are great and at the moment they have some great options in their portfolio. Considering the masterpieces they have a created in their history and continue to, I will happily forgive them their failings....at any rate perfection is boring.
@seeyouthrough Just bought a BeoSound 9000.
About lacking quality of some products:
I seriously thought about Playmaker, Moment, BV Avant (new), Balance. But due to lack of money and/or great luck I preferred Essence, BV 8-40, BL 3 and 6000 and 4000 and 9 (all second life).
And I'm very lucky and happy about dealer's support and service only 300 m away from my home.
By the way: transport of everything except BV 8 was carried out walking the goodies from shop to my home.
But my dealer recommended in case of the BeoLab 90 to use a push cart if I buy them later
Facit: I keep on using B&O ...
BenSA: One can't keep harking back to products 25 years ago. Those products wouldn't sell today, people's wants have changed. I am one of the very few people in my group of friends that has stereo speakers. They all use bluetooth speakers or a soundbar. Whether we agree or not that is what the majority want and probably can afford.
I agree somewhat. We cannot keep wanting Beocenter2 with up to date lasers or whatever or refurbished Beograms etc....
However, we cannot keep making tonnes and tonnes of standalone bluetooth mono-speakers either. As is very clear from other comments - yes, people maybe dont want mega-systems, but it is only a matter of time before we all go to the lowest common denominator and a bluetooth boom-box is the same as all other bluetooth boom-box.
I believe we need a middle ground. "Beovisions" which can take any screen from any third party manufacturer, with a black box to integrate Powerlink (WISA or cable) and a sound processor. Maybe a couple of HDMI inputs to control. Expand the same to be a soundbar. Another black box for a half-decent streamer (with PL etc and maybe a couple of other inputs).
This creates product-flow. Legacy and modern loudspeakers connectivity. Update with new speakers (any B&O), relegate the older units to other parts of the house (another streamer hub), or part-Exchange. TV panel goes.....replace for a couple of grand. Replace in 5 to 7 years, relegating the older unit to the bedroom, study, part-ex.
Right now, the whole product range is either very affordable and piece-meal - you never get to fully enjoy what B&O should be about or megabucks. A new 55in Eclipse, 4 BL8000's, a sub for a basic 5.1 setup is starting at GBP25k.
A Black box Almando equivalent for sound processing, say GBP1500, third party screen for GBP2500 and a chat to what you Dealer has 2nd life, and your probably up and running for less than GBP8k. Add a Streamer hub and call it GBP10k.
Exchange the sound processor hub for a Eclipse-grade soundbar and were have 95% of a new system for half the price. From then-on, the trade-ups soon begin with a very affordable, modular and upgradable system.
B&O need less mechanical theatrics and more quality modular components (IMO)
@MR 10Percent
I am not sure I can follow your math.
Where is the 3.0 speaker unit equivalent to the speakers in e.g. an Eclipse Sound Center - and what would that cost?
Sennheiser Ambeo, US$2500. (P.S. Add the .1 subwoofer, you know you want it: SVS 3000 Micro, +US$900.)
I totally agree about B&O. I've been obsessed with them since the 90's but in the last 10 years they have just made so many questionable products.
I have products from them that I love. Beolab 18's. Beolab 4000's. Beolab 3's. Beolab a9 rev 2.
The moment was also a point for me where I knew they were going in the right direction. The sales staff couldn't explain to me why the $5000 (canadian) Moment was better than an iPad and a $150 media server. And thats when it was new and nobody knew how bad the software was. That wood panel and colour wheel was not enough to make a $4500 difference.
When I purchased my A9 I noticed right away it was making popping and clicking sounds. I talked to the dealer, the techs at B&O I brought it in for repair FOUR times and they didn't even find the problem which is now well documented and still shipping on current A9's. The dealer also said "I don't know if there is an issue or if he is a serial complainer" by mistakenly forwarding the wrong email to me. Turns out the problem was with the A9's overly tight screws, not me.
I purchased an A2 a few years ago because it was advertised as having a "20 hour battery". Turns out that 20 hours is only under certain volumes which are so low there is no point. In reality when the sound is turned up past 80% the battery lasts a whooping 1.5 hours. It has turned out to be totally useless for me and am embarrassment when I take it to the beach. I replaced it with a Marshal speaker which last 24 hours on high volume and costs half the price.
2 months ago I got the explore. It was literally a joke. Physically it was great... but the sound didn't even sound as good as my laptop. The return process was the most convoluted I have ever had to deal with.
I've also learned not to buy the Rev A products anymore. The original A9 was missing features that they quickly added to rev b. The Beosound 8 came with a non-removable iPhone doc and no streaming and then rev B quickly rectified both.
The Beosound Core is super overpriced and you can do a lot better with speaker systems that cost 1/5 the price and many more features.
The current product that shows the B&O cannot handle software or anything outside of speakers is the Halo. Its a $1200 volume dial with 1 day of battery. If anything it should have been a home control system (without having to spend another $1300 on the core to make it useful). The hardware looks great but it is such a missed opportunity. Now I hear plenty of people have the wheel failing after less than a year.
This board has also been a real disappointment. As evident in this thread there are users like Millemissen who are just hostile to you if you don't like something B&O. They plug their ears and scream "la la la I can't hear you, if you don't like the product get off the boards and stop being B&O". People like that fail to understand we are frustrated because we love B&O of old and want them to return to making great products.
Its not all bad though. I still love my B&O speakers, I think the Beolab 28's are rather compelling. It just I can't trust the software to work or have B&O support the product with software updates to no avail and finally drop support all together.
Im hoping for change though and either B&O starts supporting more standard software like Google home, Alexa, Apple Music etc and stops making junk products like the explore and Halo.
--
BeoLab 18's. Beolab 3's. A8. A9. A2. H7.
Millemissen: @MR 10Percent I am not sure I can follow your math. Where is the 3.0 speaker unit equivalent to the speakers in e.g. an Eclipse Sound Center - and what would that cost? MM
I think your being somewhat pedantic and I was giving a hypothetical "vision" of what oit could look like.
Almando Surround Processor - say GBP1500 (Almando = Eur1000), use old beolabs for front as a cheap option (BL4000's??)
If you dont want or cant afford an Eclipse-grade Soundbar (a standalone is something like GBP5500 last time I looked?) which includes some complicated aluminium profiles and matching glass. There is probably a great deal of structure to enable the weight on the TV and rotate in 2 dimensions if attached to a floor stand.
The Stage at the lower end (no 5.1 external speaker capable version ) is approx. GBP1800. Im sure with of selective engineering, something half decent with WISA/PL 5.1 etc...something could be cobbled-up between GBP1800 to 5500? Lets say GBP3500.
Now you understand the math, have your calculator to hand and can fathom the upgrade route Im postulating, then the economics and possible attraction to this route into B&O may be somewhat more appealing for many than the current GBP25k option from the Dealer?
No need to be harsh with me.
I am not trying to be pedantic - my question is very relevant.
An Almando processor and two (second hand) Beolabs for fronts is very far from being what B&O offers with the Sound Center.In fact, if I was part of the team that has been and still is working on the advanced audio processor in the Sound Center and on creating matching speaker combinations (be it Eclipse or Harmony), I might feel offended.
When it comes to the overall concept of the BL90’s I am sure that you appreciate the effords behind that wonder.
Turning the flame down to offering a simple surround processor (as a black box), some already available Beolab speakers and a tv of your own choice is not in the DNA of B&O.
Apart from that, I am pretty sure that they could not make a living selling that kind of stuff - plenty of other similar solutions on the marked.
They will have to make and sell something extraordinaire!
No wonder that the all-in-one package of an LG tv, the Stage and the craftmanship/the materials for the frame etc (aka BV Contour) is rather popular.
Most people who buy into B&O don’t want a box and external speaker solution - they want a nice designed all-in-one solution and are over all pleased just to have one remote on the table.
Apart from the few of us, people don’t want external speakers……..just like they are happy with a one-point audio system (like the BS Stage or A9).
B&O has to take this into account - both for their ‘lower end’ and for the more advanced and expandable tv solutions……an Eclipse or the Harmony must be able to do an excellent job, even if people never want to make use of the expandable options.
B&O never was for the average Joe - just think of the BV740/55 from earlier days…….heavy priced tv’s.
As for what you call ‘lower end’- the Stage - it still will be the question how many of their costumers really want all the options that a ‘half decent with WiSA/PL 5.1’ solution, would offer.
And I am pretty sure that the price for this would be relatively high……..assuming that B&O will not make too many compromises there.
What I rather see coming - and what might appeal to some of the costumers that want a bit more than just the Stage as is now - could be something based on the Mozart platform with the option of adding extra/surround speakers (also based on the Mozart platform).
However, that is only spectaculating/a hypothetical vision - and I am not sure that the math that they would have to do in Struer would make that seem profitable for the company.
They have/had some hit & miss products... bitter sweet reminder when I see my 5 Beosound 3 of which only 1 still works flawless. The reliability issue is by far the biggest problem in this class of equipment and unfortunately this boosts the old prejudices that Bang & Olufsen is overpriced design over substance. My wife sees all of our broken B&O stuff in the past as a proof for this. There's no argument to buy another B&O CD stereo system when a super cheap (€ 300) CD player from e.g. Technics or Sony lives through while (not only one) B&O product dies in the meantime. That's a no go.
I'm still a fan of Bang & Olufsen and I love some of their products and would never sell them and yes, I still buy them. But they are like an Oldtimer which needs care and knowledge to keep it running. In this regard legacy support of Bang & Olufsen could be better (parts, software...)
BUT: Only bashing B&O is the wrong way. Give them a chance even when you're frustrated about a product.
They DO listen to us and they show it: Customer service got better, they do interviews, they opened up the HALO remote to support NL devices without the need of a BLI, re-using the NL-platform should be seen as a very positive step in the right direction! Which companies offer support for their legacy devices and which companies even "reawake" support for older devices like B&O did with the latest updates??They need much better people at the top that don't do the usual business administration measures that proofed to be failures in so many companies before. They need top management that would die for the brand. Sustainability and longevity, the right to repair etc. is the new economic direction and B&O HAS the tools and the knowledge to thrive and shine! So many examples. Look at a Beolink 7000: Educes a "Wow!" from people especially if they learn how old that thing is. I'm happy with my B&O stuff but of course I don't buy 40 bluetooth speakers... ;-) The Essence remote (which suffers from reliability issues, too) is my current favorite and we use many them for different purposes. New kid on the B&O block will be HALO remote. Dear B&O please keep going, listen to the market and your customers and do everything to live another 90 years to surprise this planet with wonderful marvels from the electronical and mechanical world. :-) Don't become a "me too" company!
Severed_Hand_of_Skywalker: I totally agree about B&O. I've been obsessed with them since the 90's but in the last 10 years they have just made so many questionable products. I have products from them that I love. Beolab 18's. Beolab 4000's. Beolab 3's. Beolab a9 rev 2. The moment was also a point for me where I knew they were going in the right direction. The sales staff couldn't explain to me why the $5000 (canadian) Moment was better than an iPad and a $150 media server. And thats when it was new and nobody knew how bad the software was. That wood panel and colour wheel was not enough to make a $4500 difference. When I purchased my A9 I noticed right away it was making popping and clicking sounds. I talked to the dealer, the techs at B&O I brought it in for repair FOUR times and they didn't even find the problem which is now well documented and still shipping on current A9's. The dealer also said "I don't know if there is an issue or if he is a serial complainer" by mistakenly forwarding the wrong email to me. Turns out the problem was with the A9's overly tight screws, not me. I purchased an A2 a few years ago because it was advertised as having a "20 hour battery". Turns out that 20 hours is only under certain volumes which are so low there is no point. In reality when the sound is turned up past 80% the battery lasts a whooping 1.5 hours. It has turned out to be totally useless for me and am embarrassment when I take it to the beach. I replaced it with a Marshal speaker which last 24 hours on high volume and costs half the price. 2 months ago I got the explore. It was literally a joke. Physically it was great... but the sound didn't even sound as good as my laptop. The return process was the most convoluted I have ever had to deal with. I've also learned not to buy the Rev A products anymore. The original A9 was missing features that they quickly added to rev b. The Beosound 8 came with a non-removable iPhone doc and no streaming and then rev B quickly rectified both. The Beosound Core is super overpriced and you can do a lot better with speaker systems that cost 1/5 the price and many more features. The current product that shows the B&O cannot handle software or anything outside of speakers is the Halo. Its a $1200 volume dial with 1 day of battery. If anything it should have been a home control system (without having to spend another $1300 on the core to make it useful). The hardware looks great but it is such a missed opportunity. Now I hear plenty of people have the wheel failing after less than a year. This board has also been a real disappointment. As evident in this thread there are users like Millemissen who are just hostile to you if you don't like something B&O. They plug their ears and scream "la la la I can't hear you, if you don't like the product get off the boards and stop being B&O". People like that fail to understand we are frustrated because we love B&O of old and want them to return to making great products. Its not all bad though. I still love my B&O speakers, I think the Beolab 28's are rather compelling. It just I can't trust the software to work or have B&O support the product with software updates to no avail and finally drop support all together. Im hoping for change though and either B&O starts supporting more standard software like Google home, Alexa, Apple Music etc and stops making junk products like the explore and Halo.
Everyone has different experiences, I bought an A2 and absolutely loved it. I think the sound quality is excellent, so I have actually ended up with 2 of them. So for you might it not be what you want, other people it is exactly what they want. I bought a 2nd hand Beosound 1 CD a while ago and didn't like the sound at all and sold it. Lots of people think its a great product. All because it doesn't fit into what I like or expect doesn't mean other people will have the same experience. Some love the Explore, you don't and that's fine but it doesn't mean that B&O manufactures rubbish or those products are rubbish. Its just your personal experience and needs.
I have such a "legacy" Tesla, this is the only car I ever had that is getting better over time. In three years ownership it received various new features, like a dashcam, side view, new music and video streaming services, suspension improvements to name a few.
Even though there are differences between the "old" (vertical screen) and newer models (horizontal screens). Even the very first Model S's are still receiving software updates and new features and could even get their infotainment computer updated to a newer chip, again something that is unheard of with legacy car makers.
On the B&O side, also unlike the rest of the industry, they have similar intentions with the Level. We will see how that turns out over time, but it's great that they are pursuing this path.
BenSA: Everyone has different experiences, I bought an A2 and absolutely loved it. I think the sound quality is excellent, so I have actually ended up with 2 of them. So for you might it not be what you want, other people it is exactly what they want. I bought a 2nd hand Beosound 1 CD a while ago and didn't like the sound at all and sold it. Lots of people think its a great product. All because it doesn't fit into what I like or expect doesn't mean other people will have the same experience. Some love the Explore, you don't and that's fine but it doesn't mean that B&O manufactures rubbish or those products are rubbish. Its just your personal experience and needs.
The A2 sounds great I agree. My problem is how they fully advertised it as "20 something battery" and when you take it home its actually 1.5 in real world use. Thats totally creative and misleading advertising. Also, right after the A2 came out they quickly replaced it with one that was water resistant. Burned again by B&O rev 1 product.
And sorry if anyone finds the sound of the explore acceptable they are just completely fanboy B&O. Any blind sound test and it would fail miserably. You should really try the explore against the any bluetooth speaker that costs half the amount, then you'll understand how people just want to like it because it looks nice and has the logo on it.
And be careful before you buy the Halo. There is a thread here about them already having mechanical problems in less than a year and right out of the box.
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
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Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
Mikipidia:Explore is tough as nails and I am very curious which actual laptop sounds better?! I haven’t come accross one yet and I’ve rently been laptop shopping.
Try the latest MacBook Pro 14 or 16 inch. These have the best speakers of any laptop you can find on the market with a very big margin.