Home Theatre in 2022

Hello fellow afflicted nuts,

My son wants to follow in my footsteps (I did something right)!

Scenario

He has just bought an apartment and he wants me to put together a multiroom B&O system for him with a 5.1/7.1 home theatre at the centre of it all. He's got a very healthy budget, but there are some caveats:

 

1. He's in London so I can't do the leg work, short of emailing folks (B&O Selfridges do you ever check your email?)
2. He said he only wants B&O - hurrah!
3. For the main L & R loudspeakers we are going to go with the Beolab 28
4. We don't have the measurements/drawings yet, but it's a challenging layout: triangular room (27sqm), glass/aluminium along one side, galley-stye kitchen along the other, it appears there's drywall ceiling, and there's no rear wall as it's an open living/dining area
5. Vintage gear is not an option - he doesn't have the patience for it
6. Whatever the solution, it has to look very good OR be invisible

 

The issues

No cinema for you!

Now, I've googled the hell out of some of the issues and I've trawled this forum, and what I've concluded is that it appears the B&O of 2022 only wants to do home theatre via one of their beautiful TVs which acts as the AV receiver AND the centre speaker. Son and I believe that a dumb, thin, near invisible display with the latest panel tech is the way to go - so a Harmony is not for us.

Q1.1: Do we go with a non-B&O receiver to handle the 5.1 (line level out to BL 28 and high power to the other channels)?

Q1.2: Would that non-B&O receiver be able to control the volume of the 28s???

No centre channel for you!

If there's room in the ceiling, I expect to specify the B&O Celestials for the rear and effects channels. I don't love the idea of the centre up in the ceiling with the mains down at ear level. And it seems there's no low-profile B&O solution (the TV will be sat quite low to the floor in line with the lounge suite).

Q2: Do I source a non-B&O loud speaker for the centre?

The 0.1 dilemma

I feel like the Beolab 19 is going to be overkill when paired with the 28s in a 27sqm living area.

Hook a brother up

Q3.1: Anyone have a good recommendaiton for a London-based B&O + home theatre specialist who can make something happen?

Q3.2: Or should we just get the Beolab 28s and ask a non-B&O specialist to build something around them?

 

This is all a nice set of problems to have, I admit, but I'm finding it very hard to stick to the all B&O dream here.

I know this is a lot, but many thanks to anyone who can help out.

Chuck

Quote: ’2. He said he only wants B&O - hurrah!’

At the same time not wanting a B&O tv solution (including the built in center speaker) as part of a Home Theater.

Your conclusion at the end: ‘….I’m finding it very hard to stick to the all B&O dream here.’

My conclusion: Impossible!

 

MM

Do I understand it correctly that you want a projector without a Beovision? 

If so, maybe the Beosystem 4 is the right thing for you?

I think you answered your own question, if you can't go with any of the B&O tv's then better to go with a complete other solution. If you try to go with B&O speakers but with another AV receiver you're going to miss whole lot of integrated B&O stuff, like the remote, automatic up/down mixing, built in multiroom capabilities etc. Stuff which make B&O, truly B&O and sets apart from others as there no all in one solution who can offer the same at this level of design, quality and integration. 

So think about it again and go for an eclipse or harmony, in terms of panel tech they have LG GX panels, and probably will soon switch to the 2022 LG EVO panels, check that with your B&O dealer. Or ditch the B&O idea and go for the traditional AV solution. Not sure which one to advice if you want good multiroom as well, you probably end up mixing many brands and need a Control4 remote control solution maybe to have it nicely working together. 

Hi Phil,

I should have made it clearer—we're going with a 75" Samsung Neo QLED. He already has a 55" one and he wants to stick with it.

Hi Millemissen,

You're right—I suppose not entirely B&O.

I would expect the audio hardware to last a very long time. But display technology evolves at a faster pace and I don't feel comfortable investing in a B&O TV.

Chuck:

Hi Millemissen,

You're right—I suppose not entirely B&O.

I would expect the audio hardware to last a very long time. But display technology evolves at a faster pace and I don't feel comfortable investing in a B&O TV.

Do understand that the panels can be upgraded for both Harmony and Eclipse TV's. The soundcenters are seperate parts. Samsung is not bad, but really do consider the LG OLED panels! If you're going to invest such amount in B&O speakers it would be sad to miss out on the B&O integration part. 

 

Yes go after LG OLED, it is much better.

And you can get a G1 with built in WiSa for connecting the speakers without a AVR Reciever.

You will not have the Beoremote one, and if I was you I would look at the Harmony.

Anyway If you buy a LG now you can later on upgrade to a Beovision.

Chuck:

Hi Millemissen,

You're right—I suppose not entirely B&O.

I would expect the audio hardware to last a very long time. But display technology evolves at a faster pace and I don't feel comfortable investing in a B&O TV.

‘Not entirely B&O’……then it is about compromizing!

However, not having a B&O Sound Center, which includes a proper center speaker solution, when in a home cinema setup, is a HUGE compromize.

I understand that apart from the concerns about screen/display technology, your son doesn’t want a speaker with the display/tv…..or maybe he just don’t want to see it?

P.S. As already written here - the tv part of a B&O tv solution is upgradeable.

MM

 

 

As others have written, you're in compromise territory somewhat, but I guess you know that.

Without doubt, for ease a B&O TV is the cleanest and easiest way to go - but I can see the reasons for thinking of partial solution.

Firstly, the home theatre / aesthetics your son is after may not work with a Harmony or Eclipse sound centre - a personal preference, but I can see why for some it may not be the look they are after.

Secondly, while both of those current B&O TV's seem able to accommodate updated versions of LG OLEDs, and allow the requisite B&O app to be installed from the LG webOS store, and allowing use of a Beoremote 1, that integration may not be around forever - no guarantees in this solution either.

I'd also add one thing - which I know many will not agree with.  If your son is a film / home cinema purist, then obviously a centre channel is required. However, my experience with my BL50s suggests that a centre is not especially missed with such a capable set of left / right fronts (especially when set up properly).  The 28s may achieve a similar thing (they are 50s like, according to many!) . I've at times used my 50s (and no centre) and even in wide mode, its pretty damned good with video content.

Something to consider I'd say - I like an impressive sound too, just saying that higher end B&O speakers are sufficiently good that the absence of a dedicated centre may not be missed at all.   

If my current (older) Beovision dies,  I'd be more than happy with an LG OLED with no centre, just front left / right BL50s, and rear BL3s.  (6-7m by 5m room, for reference) 

And has the advantage of not hacking together a solution with a centre with a very different design to the modern 28s.

 

 

Chuck:

Hi Millemissen,

You're right—I suppose not entirely B&O.

I would expect the audio hardware to last a very long time. But display technology evolves at a faster pace and I don't feel comfortable investing in a B&O TV.

 

@Sandyb

I must disagree!

That is, if you are one person (without friends and/or spouse) that might be fine and enjoyable.

 

Generally speaking a capable (!) center speaker is essential for a genuine sound experience, when watching movies.

Please note that you only will only be able tog enjoy a 2 channel version of the soundtrack.

Almost every movie is made in 5.1/7.1 (and more and more often with the Atmos informations too). The center is a dedicated channel in those soundtracks.
And the scenario mentioned above was:
‘He has just bought an apartment and he wants me to put together a multiroom B&O system for him with a 5.1/7.1 home theatre at the centre of it all’

 

If I were to suggest a compromize, it would be more like:

1: Have a wallmounted/built in active center speaker right below the tv.

2: Get a serious audio processor like the Trinnov Altitude (if the budget is healthy enough )

It will take some room compensation anyway to get a decent sound in a room as described!!!

3: The BL28’s will be fine - especially if he also wants to listen to 2 channel music, too.

I am not sure a BL19 will be needed (a test would have to show).

4: The Celestials will be fine ‘for the rear and effect channels’, that were mentioned in the initial posting.
(Amplification will be needed for those).

 

MM

I hope you don't mind me asking, building a cinema room and customer wants to use his beolab 5's as front speakers and lab 9' as rear speakers, and combine with in ceiling speakers to give him full dolby atmos, he does have a beosysyem 4, but he wants full 4k projector, what would you recommend?

Depends on the size of the room, as well as purity of attitude towards surround.

My point is that with speakers like the 50s, they produce such a voluminous sound that even in wide mode a centre is not missed that much. And unless you have a very capable centre, it may not be missed at all. 

Even Willie on the podcast often does not use his Avant as centre and relies on his 90s, so I'm not alone in this view. Unless you live with things like the 50s/90s, then its hard to comment to what extent they can substitute. 

Of course I get that if the brief is to build a home cinema, then a centre is obviously a big part of the discussion - just pointing out that super capable fronts (50s / 90s, and maybe 28s?) can put the hassle / work of a dedicated centre into perspective.  

After all, what centre would even match the 28s?

 

Millemissen:

@Sandyb

I must disagree!

That is, if you are one person (without friends and/or spouse) that might be fine and enjoyable.

 

Generally speaking a capable (!) center speaker is essential for a genuine sound experience, when watching movies.

Please note that you only will only be able tog enjoy a 2 channel version of the soundtrack.

Almost every movie is made in 5.1/7.1 (and more and more often with the Atmos informations too). The center is a dedicated channel in those soundtracks.
And the scenario mentioned above was:
‘He has just bought an apartment and he wants me to put together a multiroom B&O system for him with a 5.1/7.1 home theatre at the centre of it all’

 

If I were to suggest a compromize, it would be more like:

1: Have a wallmounted/built in active center speaker right below the tv.

2: Get a serious audio processor like the Trinnov Altitude (if the budget is healthy enough )

It will take some room compensation anyway to get a decent sound in a room as described!!!

3: The BL28’s will be fine - especially if he also wants to listen to 2 channel music, too.

I am not sure a BL19 will be needed (a test would have to show).

4: The Celestials will be fine ‘for the rear and effect channels’, that were mentioned in the initial posting.
(Amplification will be needed for those).

 

MM

 

Not sure where in London the installation will be, but I'd contact Daniel at B&O Islington (in London).

My experience with him and his installers over the years has been very good - and my aesthetic demands are not far from your sons (by the sounds of it), i.e minimal and extremely tidy.

 

 

I would always recommend a Beovision, not only for the center speakers but for the full experience / integration / speaker settings and all. If you want to get the best out of your beolabs, get a beovision!

I would advise a Harmony, it is a big investment but the speaker / lift is a longlasting investment and you can swap panels every year if you like. Start with a 65” or 77” and it can be upgraded to 88”, only tv panel and another set of speaker covers (expensive) needed.

A center speaker imo is a must, even with 50’s (sorry Sandeep). For normal tv watching the 3 speaker system in Harmony (or Eclipse) are just perfect.

To be short: buy full B&O set including beovision, if budget kick’s (doesn’t it always..) go for an grow scenario.. BV plus 2 or 4 BL’s and add more in time. Or start with some proper BL’s from second hand market (BL 20’s are way cheaper now then 28’s and are very good also..)

Cheers for that. The Islington store is very close to where the boy is moving. The reason I didn't choose it is because from what I could see, they don't have 28s on hand for him to demo. As it occurs, the boy isn't at all fussed on auditioning anything before it's installed. Too easy!

I'd be surprised if they dont - the main (and newer) store is on Offord Road, for reference.

The older store on Islingtons high street houses generally only used approved gear, so no 28s there.

But I'd be shocked if they dont have any in their main store, on Offord Road.

For now, a second-hand BeoSystem 4 sounds like a great solution for you. I wouldn't be too hung-up on it not supporting 4K. A Samsung screen is controlled by the PUC and doesn't support Dolby Vision anyway. I actually find myself often preferring 1080p to 4K.

I've been told by a B&O dealer that a new B&O AVR is in the works. He said it will be similar to the Stage but will be a dedicated center channel speaker with the ability to connect B&O surround speakers via (at least) Wisa. He didn't know if there would be any powerlink connections. He said it would support Dolby Atmos.

I agree with you Beojeff. Decent HD quality suffices for more than 90% of TV and Netflix content. Size of the screen is much more important if you want to drive a big B&O speaker set up. If you want the real experience. I am talking about at least 100 inch. TV content is not there yet. I can vouch for the Beosystem 4 and hopefully a successor is on the way.

Do you think this avr stage will be launched this year?

 

Hello Chuck,

I had the same issue with you back in 2017 when I wanted to built a home theater for my new house which would be the center of my multiroom system. I already had many b&o products (beolbs, beosounds, beovision) but I was missing a BEOway to add a projector to my home theater and move from 5.1 to 7.1. I waited till 2020 when I took the decision to get a second hand beosystem 4. My biggest concern was that I would sacrifice 4K but it turned out to be a "small" sacrifice. Picture and sound quality are second to none. I am using a gx lg oled as a screen and an epson projector for my movies. Integration is great especialy if you consider adding a BLI for example you can get the home control screen even when using your projector.

I get back to the 4K issue. I used an nvidia shield directly connected to my projector for about a month and used it mainly with 4K content. Then I connected it to the beosystem 4 and used it the same way only to find that YES there is a difference (totally acceptable at least by my eyes) but only when watching 4K content. The upscaling from the nvidia shield along with the upscaling of the projector are doing a great job on a screen of 135 inches. 

If the speculation of beojeff's dealer is right then a sound center with 7.1/atmos/4k/etc etc would be a great product and I would probably be the first to put an order BUT it has to be as future proof as possible and in a fair price...till then I can suggest the beosystem 4 as a great solution to you.

LAST BUT BY NO MEANS LEAST I need to stress that if you plan to use in any of the other rooms a beosound moment or even integrate the moment with the beosystem 4 you will get sound drops sooner or later.