ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Hi Beoworlders,
I hope that this information may be useful to some of you, as I have been doing some tests on Emerge, Level and Balance speakers to see how they can best be used. If anyone spots any errors here, please reply to correct me!
The 3.5mm minijack line input of these speakers accepts either analogue stereo audio or a mini-Toslink optical input (again, stereo only). A wired connection to a TV or AV receiver is not possible, as the line input has a significant delay (my estimate is around 0.5 seconds) which puts the sound out of sync with the TV picture.
The solution to use these speakers with a non-B&O TV is to buy an Apple TV 4k 2nd gen (earlier versions won't work, it must be this version or newer) and plug this into the HDMI ARC socket on the TV. Now, any audio playing on the TV (eg. BluRay, internal TV tuner, etc) can be sent to the Apple TV. By assigning a room in the Apple Home app and placing the Apple TV and the B&O speakers in the same room within the app, you can stream the TV sound from the Apple TV to the speakers wirelessly via Airplay without any noticeable audio delay.
When you stereo pair two matching Mozart speakers, please note which one is the "primary" speaker (this is usually the one that you use to set up the pairing within the B&O app). When using the line input to a paired set of speakers, only the socket on the primary speaker will function. The primary speaker will then send the line input audio to the secondary speaker over wi-fi or Ethernet.
A physical Ethernet cable gives a much more reliable connection than wi-fi when using two speakers paired together, particularly if you intend to use the line input function. The "Sensitivity" option for the line input in the B&O app doesn't appear to adjust the gain of the audio, merely to change how loud the audio needs to be to switch the speakers over to the line input.
There isn't an option for "unity gain" on the line input as there was for some earlier speakers (eg. to allow for connection to the Powerlink output of an older music system, with volume control possible on the older system). Instead, when connecting an older system to Mozart speakers, you either need to use the fixed volume Tape/Aux output, or turn the system volume to around 75% if using the headphone or Powerlink (variable volume) outputs.
As an oddity, Beosound Emerge appears to have the same position/movement sensor as the portable Beosound Level, as moving an Emerge while it is playing causes the music to pause...
In my testing (purely by ear), Spotify Connect and Airplay always gave the best music quality, these appeared to be similar in output level and quality. Bluetooth and Chromecast were noticeably less well defined, with the added issue that Bluetooth also has a very limited range.
On GVA (Google Voice Assistant) versions of the speakers, music playing to the line input or via Bluetooth doesn't appear to be able to be sent to other speakers over Beolink. Non-GVA speakers seem to be able to send the line input over Beolink.
Beolab 28 is slightly different in behaviour, so I will cover that separately. Please ask if you need help with cables for any of these speakers via my sponsor link below.
If I have made any errors or omissions, please reply to let me know!
Kind regards, Steve.
Steve.
www.soundsheavenly.com
Founder of Sounds Heavenly Cables and Brand Ambassador for Bang & Olufsen
Sounds Heavenly are proud to sponsor BeoWorld!
Please check out my YouTube channel at https://youtube.com/soundsheavenlycables
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5
I really wonder if I connect my BS5E with Steve's powerlink adapter & Y-splitter to the line-in of my Balance, I would hear a delay when I start music on my BS5E.
If so, it doesn't make sense to connect them wired.
That would be a pity.
Beosound 5 Encore, Beolab 3, Beolab 11, Beosound Balance Non GVA, H9i
Hi Gaea,
Yes, there is a small delay to the audio on line input, so there would be an echo if you use the Balance alongside older Beolab speakers. When using only the Balance, that won't be an issue.
Thank you so much, Steve! Very well explained article! I appreciate that you have shared your learnings.
I am now curious to test it out with my two Balances and my record player. I have not really dug into it yet due to lack of time but I have always thought I would have to wire my two Balances separately for stereo mode between the speakers and the record player. But from what I understand here it seems to be more or less the same process as with Beolink multiroom.
First of all, I can confirm the following since it has worked on my non-GVA Balances and also non-GVA Beosound 1:
Steve at Sounds Heavenly: Non-GVA speakers seem to be able to send the line input over Beolink.
Non-GVA speakers seem to be able to send the line input over Beolink.
Second, my turntable has got RJ45 output where I use one cable to merge them into a line-in that I then plug into the Balance.
Third, I use Beolink to send that to my other Balance or to my Beosound 1 or both in a multiroom scenario.
So it sounds like it is essentially the same for stereo, you only need to use one line-in (as long as the cable is also stereo-capable, I presume) and then you stream audio from the speaker it is plugged into to the speaker you want to extend it to, but of course instead of using Beolink multiroom you simply do a stereo pair in the B&O app. Then the app will understand that the stereo line-in from the primary speaker needs to be split into left and right channels and you only get the right channel on the secondary speaker.
At first I thought I could try it but that it would not make sense because I would only get mono audio even if set up as a pair, without a second cable (e.g. left RJ45 to left line-in and right RJ45 to right line-in).
It seems to be simpler than I thought, so I'll definitely give it a try when I have a chance because it should already work without more cables or more planning :).
Thank you for the tip!
It makes me so unhappy that the line-in has got delay and there's no option to disable it (like there was on earlier products).
Such a stupid limitation. If that was not the case, I'd happily pay for 2 Balances to use as speakers for my TV.
But no, the only option if I want to have speakers used with my TV is to get a pair of Beolab 18 or 28...
Hi,
This is the case for the GVA versions of the speakers, but I haven't yet tested this on non-GVA speakers. Maybe someone from B&O can confirm the situation with non-GVA Mozart speakers and the line input latency?
There is still the option to use the speakers wirelessly with your TV by adding an Apple TV 4K 2nd gen and Airplaying to the speakers.
Lot of effort ... For at less good, more expensive solution, which will be completely outperformed by (classic) BeoLabs...
I agree - seems like an awful lot of complexity and uncertainty, and for what gain in the end?
if I need a pair of speakers, I'd get a pair of dumb speakers and keep the freedom to change / control the sources as I want to.
Ravsted: Lot of effort ... For at less good, more expensive solution, which will be completely outperformed by (classic) BeoLabs...
Just connected my tv via optical cable to my Non-GVA Balance, and there was a massive delay.
Unfortunately I couldn't find a 3,5mm jack headphone jack on my tv.
Thanks for checking this. You can use Apple TV 4K 2nd gen for wireless audio from the TV to the speakers without the delay.
Steve at Sounds Heavenly: Hi Gaea, Thanks for checking this. You can use Apple TV 4K 2nd gen for wireless audio from the TV to the speakers without the delay. Kind regards, Steve.
Thanks Steve, I don't need to.
I have my TV connected trough a B&O Connection Hub to a set of BL3.
Gaea: Just connected my tv via optical cable to my Non-GVA Balance, and there was a massive delay. Unfortunately I couldn't find a 3,5mm jack headphone jack on my tv.
Did you disable the line-in delay (assuming this is possible - I don't have any Mozart devices)?
On the older NL devices, you go into Product Settings -> Configure -> Sound -> Line-in and there's a check box to enable/disable the line-in delay. If you disable the delay, the line-in cannot be shared with other NL devices. However, it might let you watch TV via your Balance. Then again, this might be something that is no longer supported in Mozart, or there might be too much delay from the Balance's beam forming signal processing, but it is probably worth checking. Thinking more about this, if Apple play works without a delay, I don't know why line-in would not be possible (unless, of course, the line in delay didn't make it into Mozart)
Stan: Did you disable the line-in delay (assuming this is possible - I don't have any Mozart devices)? On the older NL devices, you go into Product Settings -> Configure -> Sound -> Line-in and there's a check box to enable/disable the line-in delay.
On the older NL devices, you go into Product Settings -> Configure -> Sound -> Line-in and there's a check box to enable/disable the line-in delay.
The Balance doesn't has Product Setting --> Configure --> Sound.
My yesterday bought M3 has it I saw briefly.
Indeed it's plain ridiculous that via AirPlay you can stream to speakers without any delay, while with line-in or optical input you MUST have that delay.
It makes no sense at all. And even if it was because of "room compensation" or some other software s***, there should be either a way to disable that to also get rid of the delay, or they just should have implemented that better so that it wouldn't introduce any delay (like in Sonos systems).
Also a question: when you stream via AirPlay to a pair of Balance speakers, can you actually have them set-up in stereo, or does AirPlay stream to them sending both L and R channels to both speakers?
matteventu: Also a question: when you stream via AirPlay to a pair of Balance speakers, can you actually have them set-up in stereo, or does AirPlay stream to them sending both L and R channels to both speakers?
The way I use my pair of Balances is to set up a pair in the B&O app, then I airplay to my pair from the built-in/native Music app (not «Apple Music»). Since I download from iTunes or upload files from my PC to my iOS Music app, it is quite normal for me therefore to use AirPlay first, then set up either stereo or Beolink multiroom. Yes, left is left, right is right using AirPlay with stereo set up in the B&O app.
I believe even the 28s have non configurable delay with its optical / line in input.
Which is for those using BVs etc and connecting via power link, but not good for those using 3rd party screens and optical connections.
matteventu: Indeed it's plain ridiculous that via AirPlay you can stream to speakers without any delay, while with line-in or optical input you MUST have that delay. It makes no sense at all. And even if it was because of "room compensation" or some other software s***, there should be either a way to disable that to also get rid of the delay, or they just should have implemented that better so that it wouldn't introduce any delay (like in Sonos systems). Also a question: when you stream via AirPlay to a pair of Balance speakers, can you actually have them set-up in stereo, or does AirPlay stream to them sending both L and R channels to both speakers?
Sandyb: I believe even the 28s have non configurable delay with its optical / line in input. Which is for those using BVs etc and connecting via power link, but not good for those using 3rd party screens and optical connections.
Yes, Beolab 28 can only be used via their RJ45 Powerlink inputs when connected to a video source, as the line/optical input has a delay that cannot be removed.
However, there are plenty of options to still use Beolab 28 with a non-B&O TV or AV receiver - I will explain all of these in a future post (please feel free to get in touch directly via my website at the link below if you need help with this in the meantime!)
Hi Sandyb,
Yes I agree, my aim is to ensure that everyone (potential buyers and dealers) are kept informed with all the options so that hopefully there isn't a barrier to purchase in most cases.
I would love to see a line input without any audio delay on all Mozart speakers, this would make them far more viable to bring new customers to the brand when they need to connect to their existing AV equipment.
It did not seem that Andrew Robinson had any problems using the BL28 set for tv viewing, when he reviewed them in october last year…..he used an ATV as the source.
For sure there might be some problems, if you use other external boxes (Sky etc) - will be interesting if Steve has a ‘solution’ there.
However, one should not forget that the 28’s are a stereo sound system, which does not quite fit with what is needed for proper tv/movie sound.
If you really want to use the 28’s as individual speakers (e.g as a left or right speaker) in a multichannel setup, the PowerLink connection will be the way to go.
With a B&O tv solution….no problem (of course) - let’s see, if Steve has some ideas there too, when connecting to a non-B&O multichannel sound processor.
MM
Hi MM,
I will explain fully in another post very soon. Andrew Robinson used Airplay for a wireless connection from Apple TV to the Beolab 28, which works well. There are also several wired and wireless options for use with a non-B&O TV or AVR, including a cable that I have developed for this purpose.
Full details to follow!
Yes, all understood.
Just mentioned this as my dealer has had a few potential customers (new to B&O) walk in and interested in the 28s, but what seems like a simple plug and play with their non B&O TV (i.e. via optical) wouldn't work well. Of course there are ways around this by inserting other bits of hardware, but that was neither my point, nor the observation made to my dealer.
That will turn off some potential buyers, and not be an obstacle to others.
For it not to be, you are relying on all dealers knowing the work around, all then the potential customer being happy with it. And its safe to assume that its not that often that both those conditions are met.
Millemissen: It did not seem that Andrew Robinson had any problems using the BL28 set for tv viewing, when he reviewed them in october last year…..he used an ATV as the source. For sure there might be some problems, if you use other external boxes (Sky etc) - will be interesting if Steve has a ‘solution’ there. However, one should not forget that the 28’s are a stereo sound system, which does not quite fit with what is needed for proper tv/movie sound. If you really want to use the 28’s as individual speakers (e.g as a left or right speaker) in a multichannel setup, the PowerLink connection will be the way to go. With a B&O tv solution….no problem (of course) - let’s see, if Steve has some ideas there too, when connecting to a non-B&O multichannel sound processor. MM
Ok!
If is is too hard to use (or for the dealer to know and suggest) the ATV, that a lot of tv owners have anyway…….like Steve has suggested,
or too hard to use a small box like the Hall Audio Streamer, that I have suggested in the new, longer post from Steve,
I have no further ideas!