ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Is it only me or are there others out there who feel that B&O has lost the plot completely? I'm amazed at their new "audio product" launch. The company is not doing well, it's dealers are not doing well. More and more main line products are getting discontinued/outdated and instead of replacing them, (eg BS5 or BSE) they are launching new headphones? They've just started with NL and still a lot of work needs to be done in this field. But B&O is busy working on a pair of headphones. It's obvious that the new CEO doesn't understand the spirit of the company and is only interested in making his own name by promoting his brain child - Beoplay.
I feel the same!Regarding the Beoplay brand and the upcoming new headphones:How can the products of the sub brand be more expensive as the mothership B&O?You're right: The CEO just wants to do some wellness to his ego and nothing more... this could be easily seen with the primitive marketing videos B&O tried with the new CEO and e.g. the iron man runner... just embarassing.I still bet that I can do a much better job as a CEO at Bang & Olufsen and hey guys: I dont' need his salary ;-)
I definitely do not think B&O has "lost the plot". I just think it's incredibly difficult for B&O to do good business in the current climate, considering they are primary a retailer on the high street. This puts B&O in an unenviable position (unlike just about every other A/V brand) where they have to rely on the dealers encouraging people in to the store in the first place and I get the impression it's becoming harder to get them through the door.
On one hand, a lot of high street customers simply do not have the cash for B&O products, so dare not venture in to the store. On the other hand, their traditional customerbase is growing old, is retired and doesn't have the cash to spend, say, £10K on a BV10, only to find it's replaced in a couple of years. The market is far different from how it was before 2000. Before then, you bought a CRT and kept it for years. Since 2000, and the move away from CRTs, there's a bewildering number of options and TVs have been driven down in price where you can now pick up a 55" TV for only £600.
The customerbase just isn't there. All this talk of "tech savvy younger people" moving in to the brand to buy £200+ headphones only tells me what I fear: that a number of hardcore B&O fans on this board simply do not understand how young people see the products/brand/price point. These people cannot afford or justify £200+ headphones for their iPhone. They only can just about afford the iPhone. They don't spend more than £1000 on speakers (hell, £600 is expensive for them), they download poorly-produced compressed audio anyhow and, worse, they don't care about B&O as a brand.
TWG: I still bet that I can do a much better job as a CEO at Bang & Olufsen and hey guys: I dont' need his salary ;-)
I still bet that I can do a much better job as a CEO at Bang & Olufsen and hey guys: I dont' need his salary ;-)
TWG you tell us that over and over and over. Instead of telling us that you'd do a better job, let us know *how* you'd do a better job, bearing in mind that the economies of scale aren't as flexible at B&O than they are at, say, Sony and remembering that B&O has an expensive dealer network to look after, who expect to make certain margins from their products.
I agree that the current high-end product range needs updating, specifically the BeoSound 5 Encore. However, B&O has been in need of reference headphones for some time after discontinuing the Form 1 nearly a decade ago. It seems to me that the reasoning for this focus on lower end products such as headphones is due to a changing economy and lifestyle. Fewer people have the money to spend on $10,000 - $20,000 pairs of speakers and $20,000 televisions. Many younger professionals cannot afford a home, let alone a spacious flat. These new B&O customers are upwardly mobile and listen to their music and watch movies on iPhones and iPads. The concept of a home stereo or theater system is alien to them.
BeoLab 5, BeoVision 7-55 MK2, BeoSound 5 Encore, BeoSound 9000, BeoLab Penta III, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoLab 2, BeoLab 7-6, BeoSound 8, BeoTime (analog clock), Beo 4 remote.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
TWG:: How can the products of the sub brand be more expensive as the mothership B&O?
How can the products of the sub brand be more expensive as the mothership B&O?
they aren't. All the earphones have been Play branded for some time
moxxey: The customerbase just isn't there. All this talk of "tech savvy younger people" moving in to the brand to buy £200+ headphones only tells me what I fear: that a number of hardcore B&O fans on this board simply do not understand how young people see the products/brand/price point. These people cannot afford or justify £200+ headphones for their iPhone. They only can just about afford the iPhone.
The customerbase just isn't there. All this talk of "tech savvy younger people" moving in to the brand to buy £200+ headphones only tells me what I fear: that a number of hardcore B&O fans on this board simply do not understand how young people see the products/brand/price point. These people cannot afford or justify £200+ headphones for their iPhone. They only can just about afford the iPhone.
That being the case, how come Monster (in conjunction with Dr Dre) have sold literally millions of pairs of their "Beats" headphones at £200+ ?
Lee
Chris Townsend: H3 yes but I think they need some feminine colours, H6 and I know I haven't tried them on, but if you are going to walk round in them with your Iphone etc like they are designed for, you would surely want ANR! The competition of established brands have just that.
H3 yes but I think they need some feminine colours, H6 and I know I haven't tried them on, but if you are going to walk round in them with your Iphone etc like they are designed for, you would surely want ANR! The competition of established brands have just that.
From all your posts you clearly want ANR, but not everyone does and personally I would rather headphones where the development money has been spent on sound, and then build quality.
The BOSE make me feel sick after a while, and the idea of walking around whilst completely blocking out the people, traffic around me sounds horrible, and probably a bit dangerous.
Chris Townsend:Well if you visit my local store you would come out with a rosy must work harder feeling, but if you had come with me today to Harrods you would have come away with all of these negative feelings that Paul W was always complaining about. What a perfect opportunity to retail B&O with a constant huge customer through put, but I'm actually ashamed to say I spent about 10 minutes of my time away from my son demoing a few products for some Americans just moving into London. Eventually I had to move on and they were swallowed up with aplomb by the excellent staff of Loewe. The LG and Samsung staff were also..
What a perfect opportunity to retail B&O with a constant huge customer through put, but I'm actually ashamed to say I spent about 10 minutes of my time away from my son demoing a few products for some Americans just moving into London. Eventually I had to move on and they were swallowed up with aplomb by the excellent staff of Loewe. The LG and Samsung staff were also..
I have a suspicion that B&O are looking to eradicate the franchise model altogether. They know that many stores are a bad ambassador for the brand - and not only do they have more control over staff performance, they will also be able to get rid of the "middle man" - aka "the fanchisee" and take more profit from every sale...
That said, I'm sure Harrods is company run - so feel free to name and shame, I'm sure B&O would thank you for it !
9 LEE: That being the case, how come Monster (in conjunction with Dr Dre) have sold literally millions of pairs of their "Beats" headphones at £200+ ?
You answered your own question Lee. Dr Dre and the Monster brand is far far more in with the younger tech savvy crowd than the fuddy-duddy B&O brand where these products are aimed.
You remember how you described the judges who decide which brand is 'super cool'? Sadly the target audience for the BeoPlay products doesn't regard B&O in this area at this price point, in my opinion. I don't mind being proved wrong though!
9-LEE:They know that many stores are a bad ambassador for the brand -
Dre beats headphones sound shocking but got to give it to them as there marketing stratedgy has been great.
B&O just havent got that kind of money to compete time tv.
All it takes is a few footballers and celebrities to be wearing them and get spotted. Then the question is launched online "who makes these?"
After that, people will want to hear them, reviews will be excellent, sales will take off - then the initial revenue can be spent on marketing. It's not rocket science!
Proper marketing. Something B&O metaphorically couldn't hit a cows @rse with a banjo...
I think B&O are going in the right direction - the headphones are entry level items, although still expensive. I remember the Beolit range being similar - in 1972, the 700 was £37.90 - in today's money, that is £450. U70s in 1977 cost the equivalent of £220 and were made mainly of plastic.
If celebrities are required, where do we queue?
Peter
moxxey: 9 LEE: That being the case, how come Monster (in conjunction with Dr Dre) have sold literally millions of pairs of their "Beats" headphones at £200+ ? You answered your own question Lee. Dr Dre and the Monster brand is far far more in with the younger tech savvy crowd than the fuddy-duddy B&O brand where these products are aimed.
Apple was once considered "geeky" and "specialist" ... Now look at it.
just because you have a label doesn't mean you can't shake it off. Skoda? (Crappy cars) Bentley? (Old mans cars) Audi (we're sold in the back corners of VW Dealerships) Hublot (acquired by LVMH then relaunched with superb marketing and more cutting edge products) Harley Davidson (nearly went bust in the mid 80's - now a cult brand) McDonalds (seen as the grim reaper of healthy food, now totally transparent and doing really well) UPS (boring, boring parcel shipper - now a zippy logistics brand... same thing but re-marketed)
Get my point ?!!
Peter: If celebrities are required, where do we queue?
If Dr M. were seen wearing them they'd never be able to keep up production. Spare them that headache and stick with the Grado's and Sennheisers in the privacy of "Castle Peter"... ;0)
9 LEE: Get my point ?!!
I see the point, but I don't think B&O is going to suddenly turn itself around and suddenly become 'cool' as you're suggesting, especially with the launch of two highly-priced headphones. The stores needed a complete revamp years ago. They need to shake the image as a brand primarily aimed at the super-rich. There's a hell of a lot of work to do to turn around the brand as you suggest.
Also, brands offer a different perception for different people. German people love Skoda (it's their VW, which they dislike). Bentley isn't necessarily cool if you're under 30. Audi is now seen as the aggressive company-car driver type and is losing the 'cool' brand it had a few years ago and McDonalds hasn't really changed, to be fair. Hublot, a very Premiership footballer brand. Not 'cool' for me at all.
moxxey: 9 LEE: Get my point ?!! I see the point, but I don't think B&O is going to suddenly turn itself around and suddenly become 'cool' as you're suggesting, especially with the launch of two highly-priced headphones. The stores needed a complete revamp years ago. They need to shake the image as a brand primarily aimed at the super-rich.
I see the point, but I don't think B&O is going to suddenly turn itself around and suddenly become 'cool' as you're suggesting, especially with the launch of two highly-priced headphones. The stores needed a complete revamp years ago. They need to shake the image as a brand primarily aimed at the super-rich.
in the world of ear/headphones for people aged up to 35, these really aren't as expensive as you are making out. B&O is never going to be mass market, but there are a lot of under thirties wearing earphones that cost a lot more than £200.
There are lots who aren't, but then they are never going to be future customers for the rest of the products.
These could be a really big hit in my humble opinion. Certainly the people I have shown the pictures and mentioned prices to are really interested (I am 37, people at work and family I have shown them to range from 21 to 40. They all like the look which is all we have to go on for now, none thought they were really expensive)
9-LEE:I have a suspicion that B&O are looking to eradicate the franchise model altogether. They know that many stores are a bad ambassador for the brand - and not only do they have more control over staff performance, they will also be able to get rid of the "middle man" - aka "the fanchisee" and take more profit from every sale... That said, I'm sure Harrods is company run - so feel free to name and shame, I'm sure B&O would thank you for it ! Lee
Out of Curiosity can I please ask when you were in Harrods as your comments in regards to the staff interests me.
Thanks for getting back to me Chris
Ok, so are you trying to tell me that B&O is now trying to focus more on "cheaper" products to be able to market them to the tech savvy, cool, younger people. In that case, instead of working on lowering the cost of their products they are focusing on making some very non-core, run of the mill products with a B&O design signature. Does that feel right to anyone here? There are other ways of reducing the costs and everyone here knows what they are starting from paying the CEO a little less incentive based salary, moving production bases to more efficient countries while keeping the R&D base as it is, spending less on advertising etc etc. All other companies have done it. Also, cheaper, more meaningful products would attract more customers automatically. Example, Can they not make a beosound5 encore cheaper? It's not got some ground breaking technology or something, just a cooler design.
B&O need to revamp their whole production line, IMO. The audio masters are getting way too outdated, new file formats, way bigger capacities and more elegant operating system interfaces are needed.
As the 19-year-old B&O fan I am, I actually wouldn't buy any new B&O as their current line of products is unattractive. I don't want to pay double for worse performance. IMO, they lost their flair for technology and performance back in the 80's. I am a great fan of their vintage stuff because it does so well; why pay thousands when a 30-year-old Beolab 8000 system with MS150's and an AirPlay interface sounds/looks better?
gmittal: [...] moving production bases to more efficient countries while keeping the R&D base as it is [...]
[...] moving production bases to more efficient countries while keeping the R&D base as it is [...]
They opened a plant in the Czech Republic years ago, some Beoplay products are manufactured in China. Most anodised aluminium parts are made in Struer to maintain quality.
Vinyl records, cassettes, open reel, valve amplifiers and film photography.
Pushkin:I have been a loyal customer for over 20 years and have had found a couple of really good b&o stores in London who care about heir customers and actually want to sell things - Harrods b&o is not one of those - their customer service disgusts me and if I were b&o management I would swap out the entire team in Harrods - they do this great brand real damage.
Well said Lee,you can add Panerai to that list also.Moxxey should know that as he adores them.They have a shakey history
.All the 20-30 somethings I know, would not think twice of spending £250 on a pair of jeans,and drive white audis with b&o systems.In my days it was escorts,how things change.Regarding skoda,I would never thought I would see the day that you would have to wait to buy a new skoda yeti.B&O should not worry about following trends or being cheaper,the other luxury brands dont.People pay a premium for individuality,like b&O has always been.
B&O used to stand for brilliant & original , now it's boring & old.
Flappo: B&O used to stand for brilliant & original , now it's boring & old.
Fair enough, everyone has an opinion
May I ask what you plan on buying to replace your boring and old B&O?
Personally, I'd suggest the BeoPlay V1-40, which has just won a Red Spot Design award.
But, yes, I agree those pesky Red Spot design award judges are all undoubtedly in the pay of IKEA and know nothing about fine design, so as an non-B&O alternative..........
Perhaps one of the nice new HX series Sony TV's, and one of their home theatre in a box sets, to give you AV capability - they look really nice in the shiny black plastic finish.
AVI and other speaker manufacturers such as Dynaudio, Event Opal etc, make some excellent value for money active speakers; but you'll need a separate rack and cables for a separate processor if you want AV capabilities, and oh, they don't make an matching active centre channel speaker, so you'll need one of those, either under the TV, or perhaps on a rack mounted to the wall above it.
The advantage here of course, is that you have a lot to choose from as regards passive centre speaker options, but a minuscule range as regards active centre speaker options, - but above all you will undoubtedly have many hours of pleasure in terms of trying to pick the 'right' one.
Assuming you don't mind floor-standers in MDF/wood veneer at the front for your main speakers (they're very attractively finished in a variety of veneers to give some semblance of style to the upright wooden coffin look) you could either complete your surrounds with same for AV purposes, or go for the smaller stand-mount speakers that are available to match - also with a complimentary classic wooden coffin style, made from MDF and in a wood veneer of your choice.
An added advantage with these is that they don't supply stands, as there are many competing designs available on the market to choose from, and the best of them look really strong, very much like a girder bridge actually, and I'm sure more than capable of holding the 5kg or so of each speaker.
They're also relatively cheap to buy, as you can generally have them in any colour you like, as long as it's black. Any resemblance to the colour schemes available for a 1920's Model T Ford is entirely co-incidental, but does add a certain patina of classic 'class'.
Finally, you can probably buy this system for a lot less money than B&O, and it has the added advantage that all your audiophile chums will congratulate you for getting rid of over priced, under performing, old and boring B&O tat, and pat you on the back with shared admiration for joining the separates, audiophile club.
When you burn out the odd driver or two from over enthusiastic use at the odd soirees, be assured that you will have saved quite a bit of money on unnecessary DSP signal processing and protection for your system under overload conditions, as it is a simple and relatively easy job to order a new driver and replace it yourself at home.
LOL... please excuse my tongue in cheek humour, but I do so to simply illustrate with a bit of humour not directed at you or anyone in particular, but simply to point out what the mainstream alternatives are likely to be with respect to B&O.
If B&O is old and boring - what do you replace it with?
Certainly nothing from what I've tried to humorously offer as an semi-plausible alternative.
Meridian perhaps?
Really, when it comes to AV kit that has a sense of timeless elegance and style, coupled with system integration, top tier performance, and is exceptionally pleasing to live with, the alternatives are few on the ground from my personal experience of the so called high end audiophile scene.
B&O is not perfect, and not beyond criticism, but when you stop and look at the alternatives - not a lot stands out to be honest.
Hence I intend to remain a customer, loyal but not blind to B&O, as long as the company stays around - and long may it do so - it has a tradition of excellence on all levels that is seldom matched by any other AV manufacturer I've ever had experience of IMHO.
Kind regards
John...
John: Fair enough, everyone has an opinion (...) B&O is not perfect, and not beyond criticism, but when you stop and look at the alternatives - not a lot stands out to be honest. Hence I intend to remain a customer, loyal but not blind to B&O, as long as the company stays around - and long may it do so - it has a tradition of excellence on all levels that is seldom matched by any other AV manufacturer I've ever had experience of IMHO. Kind regards John...
Fair enough, everyone has an opinion (...)
Bravo! I'll definitely bought black one H6.
BS A1 2nd gen, BS 1, Beo 1, BL 2, BeoCom 2, 2x LC 2, Form 2, BS 2, Beosound 2, Beplay M3, 2x BS 3, BS 4, 2x Beo 4, BS 5 + CD rip, BM 5, BL 5, BL 6000, Beo 6, BS 6, H6, BL 8000, 2x A8, BV 8-40, H9, 3x A9 Keyring, BL 12 - 3, Serenata, BeoTime, BeoTalk 400, B&O Bottle Opener, BV Eclipse 55 My LEGO
Flappo:B&O used to stand for brilliant & original , now it's boring & old.
iceman007:Out of Curiosity can I please ask when you were in Harrods as your comments in regards to the staff interests me.
Hi Lee
keep hearing about youngsters cannot afford and don't buy expensive things.
talking uk now like their cars how much is car insurance under 25s 1500 to 3000 pounds dependant on the car, what they spend on a weekend will buy them a pair of headphones,
clothes not cheap
I just listen to my grandchildren they want everything now.
malcolm
+1 malcolm
when you see the price of an iphone and what you have for this amount of money, I agree with malcom, youngsters can afford very expensive product compared to what we were able in the 80/90.(I am 43 years old).
I wonder how they will finance their home or their old times but this is a fact.
I will add that if in the 80/90 such money were spent it was for "real" valuable product (tv, speakers...) not little gadget manufactured mostly in china.
Less is more....money
4 beolab 5, beolab 9, beolab 10, beolab 5000, beolab 8000 mk2, beolab 6002, beolab 3500, beovision 7 55 mk2, 2 beovision 11 46 mk4, beotime, beosound ouverture, beosound essence, beoplay A8, beomaster 900 RG de luxe and the collection continues...
Pushkin, thank you as well as Chris for clarifying the situation based on your experience at Harrods, it is both very helpful and informative, as a new member of this forum your opinions are greatly appreciated
moxxey: TWG: I still bet that I can do a much better job as a CEO at Bang & Olufsen and hey guys: I dont' need his salary ;-) TWG you tell us that over and over and over. Instead of telling us that you'd do a better job, let us know *how* you'd do a better job, bearing in mind that the economies of scale aren't as flexible at B&O than they are at, say, Sony and remembering that B&O has an expensive dealer network to look after, who expect to make certain margins from their products.