Has B&O lost the plot?

Using celebrities as a marketing tool may work on most people but it doesn't work on me!

Whenever I see the F1 drivers putting on their watches etc before the winner presentations I remind myself of the grossly overpriced brands I must avoid. 

Oh, wait...........

Graham

vikinger:

Using celebrities as a marketing tool may work on most people but it doesn't work on me!

Whenever I see the F1 drivers putting on their watches etc before the winner presentations I remind myself of the grossly overpriced brands I must avoid. 

Oh, wait...........

Graham

 

I doubt there is any form of advertising or product placement that won't alienate someone.  The key is finding the ones which have the best engagement/alienation ratio.

 

TWG:

there are quite a few things to do:
and now... if Tue reads this, he can do it and say "Wow, I have so good ideas!" even they're not his own.

But most of those things you suggest every company should be doing. Every company could do more marketing - I notice, for example, B&O now spend a lot of money on social media, through Google AdWords etc. B&O's marketing budget is probably stretched as it is. I know our company AdWords budget and it runs in to a five figure sum. A couple of magazine adverts can cost you £5000. B&O has to market across many territories and when their sales are on the decline, the marketing budget takes a tumble.

As for celebrity endorsement. Who, exactly? You get Dr Dre on board and it might alienate your existing customerbase. You get Sir Terry Wogan on board and it might alienate a potential younger audience. Not great examples, I know, but you catch my drift.

You say "increase buying experience" and "(re)create a positive image of the brand", but these are just generic references with no indication of how they achieve this. Anyone can say "more marketing", but actioning this correctly is why the CEO is paid the big bucks.

Basically most of the above suggests require a) far more cash to be made available and b) for B&O to police their brand/stores, which requires additional staff....at the same time as they are spending cash expanding out to the Chinese and other markets.

It's an incredibly difficult balance to improve an experience and make sure you have the cash to be able to balance the books. 

moxxey:

As for celebrity endorsement. Who, exactly? You get Dr Dre on board and it might alienate your existing customerbase. You get Sir Terry Wogan on board and it might alienate a potential younger audience. Not great examples, I know, but you catch my drift.

You get anyone on board who's "cool"...  As long as they are looked up to by the potential consumers you're targeting for whatever reason, that's great!

If your kids buy the headphones and love them, and they're cool - then it's "cool" for Mum and Dad to buy the latest TV/Stereo and their kids will encourage this.  The kids will bring their friends round to see this new "Bang & Olufsen" and Mum & Dad will indeed be "cool" too. Most parents quite like that..  

It all feeds itself if you do it properly..  

Lee

 

9 LEE:

It all feeds itself if you do it properly.. 

It does........they won't though.

 

the only press release seen so far re the h3 and h6 blabs on about lambs leather.  They should be trying to create a real buzz around this launch, which as you say if done properly could bring a lot of people into the stores.

B&O simply need to reinvent themselves  more so now ,customers will part with their money if they are convinced it is a good buy as mentioned  by few members no shortage of people paying in excess£1000 for i mac,etc, always big queues at the shops  when apple launches i pads !!!!!

B&O products has to be more than just the logo.!!!!

 

butch1:

.All the 20-30 somethings I know, would not think twice of spending £250 on  a pair of jeans,and drive white audis with b&o systems.In my days it was escorts,how things change.Regarding skoda,I would never thought I would see the day that you would have to wait to buy a new skoda yeti.B&O should not worry about following trends or being cheaper,the other luxury brands dont.People pay a premium for individuality,like b&O has always been.

Well said, butch.

I don't know from where certain people have the idea, that "Young people cannot afford expensive speakers/headphones" -and "They only can just about afford the iPhone" etc...(as stated by someone earlier in this thread).
Young people are as different today as they have always been. Some can not afford it -and some have 'tons of money'.
The challenge for B&O is to make something that people wants to buy - then even the 'not so rich' young people will find money for it.
Like a lot of them can find money for overpriced phones, overpriced clothes of  'the right brand', etc...

The problem I have always had is that there is always a distinct lack of technological information. Plenty of adverts with leggy women wafting through graveyards to that awful music, but little techno information or even a suggestion of whats in the quality.

A Beovision 7-55 costs the same as a car, but that car comes with an aspiring advert....and a Ton of technical info to placate even the most committed saddo. This lays a foundation for the B&O haters who brainwash people into thinking its all just cosmetic. These strengths must be played on more.

The most impressive car stand I visited at the car show was the Volvo stand. They didn't have girls in skimpy outfits lounging over highly polished demonstrators, but a burnt out S60 that had been through many many crash tests, and yet it was still mostly intact and you'd feel you like you could still survive. People got the message straight away and it was very impressive, and I must say brave marketing.Why not have a 7-55 with its guts all exposed showing the local dimming panel, the Blu ray player, the Beosystem 3? That's what your really paying for after all.

You never see adverts or demos in retail stores of the torture chamber, or the acoustic cube for testing speakers. Just CGI movies. Go and get a demo of the Bose TV and you get a visual and aural demo which i have to say was very impressive. It looked awful and the picture wasn't that special but as an example of how to market the humble telly, it was convincing.

Having seen 4K and OLED yesterday I do feel sorry for what must be a frustrating catch up job for the AV division. 70 years of CRT, then in just 10 years Plasma/LCD/LCD LED and also edge lighting with local dimming/4K LCD LED and now OLED. Obviously the 4K has virtually no media to play on it at the moment, but watching a HD demo on the LG OLED i have to say it knocks the socks off everything else out there.

The Apple TV is based on the lg oled , from what I've read , it's going to be a jaw dropper.

bno just cannot compete with the likes of apple , it's impossible.

But in their arrogance they think they can....

For one, that Apple TV is still vapor.

When it comes, there is an easy anwser. Embrace it.

 

t won't have DVD or Blueray neither will they do superior Speaker.

 

Is time now to shift back to Music.

 

To me they nailed something with thePlaymaker. *** Wifi but. Can connect ipad iphone tomy Beolabs, have spspotify and anything else I want.

 

There is a slim path for them and I am sure they know ....

Amazingly so, almost like it was planned. They created a sub market product with the Play series which is like a factory outlet product at retail prices. The Play series doesn't integrate with the regular products with ML or the Gateway Link. They are play alone devices and are a dead end device.

Meanwhile, the design is just odd: we have the Playmaker which resembles a Braun bathroom fan and a the Beolite 12 which looks a like a mini Coleman cooler. Maybe we could get a new device that looks like an Edsel.

The 9000 makes me smile ever time I walk through the room, and the neighbors all want to watch Game of Thrones on the Avant. What happened?

 

tgt365:

The Play series doesn't integrate with the regular products with ML or the Gateway Link. They are play alone devices and are a dead end device.

That's not true. BeoPlay V1 is able to connect to NL (like BV11)

tgt365:

Meanwhile, the design is just odd:

For me the design of V1 ist great, and it fits perfectly into my kitchen.

hfat

tgt365:

...and the neighbors all want to watch Game of Thrones on the Avant. What happened?

Why? Game of Thrones couldn't look any better on my BV11-46. It's close to blu-ray quality and would look amazing on a even larger screen. You don't need a small 32" Avant to get the most from Game of Thrones :)

I use a 32" in the kitchen these days. Way too small for me to enjoy something like Game of Thrones. 

2years ago i was toying with the idea buying beosound 3200 or mac book i decided for the latter ,i see lots of good examples now for second hand systems  in perfect condition similarly priced !!,never looked back or regretted the move!, music plays very good with sonos speaker  more than happy but not the B&O level!!,will i spend £5k  in beosound & speaker now(if still made) big NO!!.Nither  seems to fly off the shelves for that price too!!.well know facts world-wide not many now buying cds!!,however i still do!!

I have purchased brand new avant also Bv7-32for example a moung few others  and paid the full fat price so money is the reason???

Badges and desirability,sell items,not specs and price.The car industry is a prime example,loads of people buy expensive,basic spec bmws over a lower priced higher spec competitor,solely for the badge and image.I see more range rovers on the roads than I ever did,and they are not the best reliability wise and are expensive.

I have seen fully loaded cheap brand tvs with worse pictures than b&o dated spec tvs.I have sat on £6000 sofas that are not as comfortable as a £2000 sofa.Why do we choose them?,not the price, but we are suckered into the marketing,if its expensive, and someone famous or rich has it,it surely must be better.

I admit back in the day,it was easy for b&o to stand out with crt tvs,as most competitors looked the same,and B&o were unique,not just picture and sound,but rotating stand,electronic curtains,built in processors etc the avant especially.Also most cd players were all black boxes,were as beosounds were like a piece of art.

These days its harder for b&o to seperate its self from the crowd,as the platforms to do so have changed,tvs are thinner and are changing at a lightning rate,and its hard for b&o to keep up,technology and designwise.Audio systems are computer based now,and are mostly controlled with tablets etc,so nothing really for b&o to design and put on display.

Its not that B&o have slowed down or lost the plot,its just that in this day of age the competitors are catching up.Beolabs on the other hand is something b&o should concentrate heavily on,you just need to look at the residuals on b&o speakers over the tvs and sound systems.also most home cinema in a box systems over the years have copied beolab 6000s with their plastic looking pillars.

I am not bothered if b&o make it easier to mix and match with other makes,I bought my link system in the first place,as it gelled together,made the technology work for me,looked good and was a breeze to use with one remote.

B&o should concentrate on what they are good at,good sound,good picture,individual design,good materials,and ease of use,and charge what they want for it.B&O has never been a company that follows suit,or embraces technology early on,the japanese do that.with cars also.They have been a brand for the domestic market who want good looks build quality and technology that is easy to use and will not bamboozle.

Nissan gtr are a sophisticated technical masterpeice of a car,which are loaded with gadgets and are extremely fast and well priced,but people still buy astons and bentley etc,which are more expensive simpler technology,but have the brand and heritage,people buy into that,and they chrarge what they want for it.Vertu sell phones at ££££££££ and are not as good as a iphone but they still sell.We are having a recession,but I still see loads of money out their being spent,especially luxury brands.

B&o please just produce items that,if we cant afford now,we can at least aspire to own.Thats what desirabilty is about.There is a certain car I cannot afford to buy just now, but have set myself a goal to have one on my drive someday.Why?because I desire it so badly,its looks,exclusivity, and last of all, price.Just the same with the b&o I bought,the looks in the shop,the touch of the items,it made me buy there and then,or if I walked out I would set myself a goal to work harder and be back for it.Thats how desirable b&o was then.

butch1:

that is easy to use and will not bamboozle.

I use the BeoSound5 everyday and it never ceases to Bamboozle me!

Maybe using your bs5 everyday doesnt bamboozle you,but reading my post properly,certainly does!

I meant people, buy b&o over other brands,as they like to have technology,but without the bamboozle,that you got with other brands with seperate remotes etc.B&o was technology simplified as they thought of the end user.

 

 

Hi,

I think no. Sure they are playing in different technological area's but they allways have had different product categories and specifically stand alone equipment.

The masterlink and methods of integrating products was world leading, so was Audio and Video products for some time. New methods of linking products through WiFi and networking are common place and allow the consumer to grasp music and video from everywhere. Something masterlink was never able to do. So it will change, bit like StarWars being re-released when minaturisation was replaced by CGI.

Video and audio products are fitting into older stand alone categories its just not obvious.

The BV11 is getting good reviews. Its pricing is well above the ratio an Avant was against a Lowve or a Sony at the time. So I believe $ need to adjust down. Its sound is ordinary though. $24K for a BV7-40 is off track though and so are larger TV's via a high margin.

Beoplay (new name, new demographic, new methods of purchase) is a category that seems to be succeeding and its a step that is introducing B&O to the masses.

On speakers I do feel that the mid to high end needs a revision.  A sound first approach be highlighted which I believe is happening.

B&O stores are an issue. They have been the historic way of introducing the product to consumers (I believe ramain so), though they are expensive, don't work as a franchise model or superstore model are are difficult to exit from.

In general the product range is as large as it has been for some time. Design remains slow however technology improves the speed at which products are created and delivered to market.

There is plenty of room in the markets for B&O if they choose to play in them. High end is there, mid market has the potential to boom as does the high consumer end.

There are great potential opportunities which B&O are taking steps to capitalise on. The speed and means are the question...

My thoughts. Beoaus

Ok, the V1 manages to integrate, and you like the V1 design. Take me beyond that product and you end with a Coleman cooler on the desk and a Braun bathroom fan on the shelf. 

moxxey:

tgt365:

...and the neighbors all want to watch Game of Thrones on the Avant. What happened?

Why? Game of Thrones couldn't look any better on my BV11-46. It's close to blu-ray quality and would look amazing on a even larger screen. You don't need a small 32" Avant to get the most from Game of Thrones :)

I use a 32" in the kitchen these days. Way too small for me to enjoy something like Game of Thrones. 

Because the old Avant 32" looks better than all the new big box junk and the sound is incredible. Take it as a metaphor and move on.

hfat:

tgt365:

The Play series doesn't integrate with the regular products with ML or the Gateway Link. They are play alone devices and are a dead end device.

That's not true. BeoPlay V1 is able to connect to NL (like BV11)

tgt365:

Meanwhile, the design is just odd:

For me the design of V1 ist great, and it fits perfectly into my kitchen.

hfat

Ok, the V1 manages to integrate, and you like the V1 design. Take me beyond that product and you end with a Coleman cooler on the desk and a Braun bathroom fan on the shelf. 

tgt365:

moxxey:

tgt365:

...and the neighbors all want to watch Game of Thrones on the Avant. What happened?

Why? Game of Thrones couldn't look any better on my BV11-46. It's close to blu-ray quality and would look amazing on a even larger screen. You don't need a small 32" Avant to get the most from Game of Thrones :)

I use a 32" in the kitchen these days. Way too small for me to enjoy something like Game of Thrones. 

Because the old Avant 32" looks better than all the new big box junk and the sound is incredible. Take it as a metaphor and move on.

So what's your point? We're all better off with an Avant?

It's the last decent Tv they made imo , certainly without any glaring issues.

After reading Moxxey's dust problems with his bv11 , I'm put off that one .

The only alternative in the range for me is the bv7-55 and £17 grand on a tv is quite simply ludicrous.

Imo bno really HAVE lost the plot.

Flappo:

After reading Moxxey's dust problems with his bv11 , I'm put off that one .

I wouldn't say it's a 'problem' per-se, you only see the dust (and a smear) when it's a very sunny morning, but it's clearly there and it shouldn't be, I agree.

The BV11 is a superb TV. Not sure if I'd have walked in to a store to buy it full price, but as an upgrade (from my MKI BV10-46), I'd recommend it, for sure.

BV10-46 vs BV11-46 is it worth the money moxxey

koning:

BV10-46 vs BV11-46 is it worth the money moxxey

Only because I had an 'old' MKI BV10-46 with two HDMIs, my dealer offered me a superb trade-in offer to upgrade. BV11 picture about 15-20% better. Not sure how a 2013 BV10 would compare to a 2013 BV11 though. My guess is that they both will use the same panel, so picture improvement will be marginal.

As I had a BL11, the difference in audio quality between a BV10+BL11 compared to a standalone BV11 is also marginal.

If you have a recent/MKII BV10, I'd hold on and see what is released in the next 6 months.

Flappo:

After reading Moxxey's dust problems with his bv11 , I'm put off that one .

Whent to my parents place with a LED Maglite.

Unlike my Bv10, there's absolutely no dust under theyre Bv11-46 screen.

Gregory

BeoGreg:

Whent to my parents place with a LED Maglite.

CSI B&O ?  :-)

Every time i was on the verge of buying a Bv 7 someone on this site had an issue. The Bv 11 imo is a great piece of kit but my avant is now worhless as a trade in,  works flawlessly and sounds stunning. I have zero interest in games or having LP covers displayed so why change ?

Where did I put my slippers and pipe ?

valve1:

BeoGreg:

Whent to my parents place with a LED Maglite.

CSI B&O ?  :-)

Every time i was on the verge of buying a Bv 7 someone on this site had an issue. The Bv 11 imo is a great piece of kit but my avant is now worhless as a trade in,  works flawlessly and sounds stunning. I have zero interest in games or having LP covers displayed so why change ?

Where did I put my slippers and pipe ?

My BV11 has no dust issues but there are still stand (motorised hinge) software issues to be resolved, and occasional tuner issues when switching from a radio to TV channel.

My BC1 is an iconic CRT design, still doing great service in a bedroom. The pole is worth more than the TV!

Avant now with a relative. Like the BC1, of  little monetary value but still doing outstanding service.

BV5 in the office. Great TV, but you need a crane to shift these beasts, and whilst they are very well designed in comparison with other plasmas, they suddenly look very very dated in comparison with the current LED TV range.

The piece of art on the wall with motorised stand makes the BV11 ideal for my particular situation, but the majority of TV owners seem to be satisfied with  a cheap giant screen either fixed above a fireplace, or standing at 45 degrees across a room corner. 

The motorised stands and floor easels are what makes B&O stand out from the competition. The TV sound systems too, but many would rather buy a cheap cinema sound system.

In the final analysis are, for example, Bentley owners thought to be foolish when they could have bought a Ford Focus? B&O have to hold onto a quality product and  image or they will be doomed.

Graham

valve1:

Every time i was on the verge of buying a Bv 7 someone on this site had an issue.

Remember one really important point about forums (from my experience) - mostly forums consist of users who report problems, as they offer a vehicle for people who have something to say and, usually, contented people rarely have anything to say (as they are content). Not saying that there aren't issues, but reading through forums, can give you a false impression that the issues are far more widespread than they actually are.

As for these "dust issues", it's important to note that I had zero dust under any of my BV7 screens, and I've owned about six BV7s over the last 10 years. The BV11 dust can only be seen on a really bright and sunny day. It doesn't affect the performance of the TV. It's a relatively minor issue.

Another dreadful experience in this store today. At least this time the sales attendant acknowledged our presence after 29 minutes, only to then continue on his Las Vegas hotel search with Tripadvisor. The place was awash with potential custom coming, and rather predictably just going.

What a waste.

Tell me about it... 

You need someone who knows luxury in the deep down to run not some guy from Triumph. Sounds elitist I know but come on someone who brands McDonald's successfully won't be able to brand Jean Georges. If the board was going to pull a stunt like this they should at least pick someone that was working in the same field say from a budget electronic manufacturer.

Unless that is B&O has a secret plan we do not know about. 

Also product launches during the past 5 yrs lacks a certain substantiality it's like the products are getting too slick for their own good. So slick that they seem like they are going to disappear altogether.

Good taste doesn't have to be boring. B&O was all about going against the grain back then and now the design is way too pedestrian ! 

Have they not heard of 3d printing and CNC machining? 

"Ask Bang & Olufsen's principal designer David Lewis, what his dream is and he will tell you that it's to create the first truly invisible loudspeaker."

Well... It's going to be hard to sell air, plasma or vibrating sticks. 

B&O stood out by being loud and offensive back then so.... But of course loud is not the same as vulgar. 

TVs are getting so boring that I foresee a decline in general sales. There are Google glasses. Why would you need TVs in the future? There will most probably be phones that double as projectors in ten years. Wearable computing. Earphones implanted to the ear etc... 

It's happening already.

B&O will only survive long term if they know how to make statement products rapidly. Not price differentiation but more in terms of partnerships with tech companies and launching statement pieces. 

Anyway B&O needs a CEO who has a more fluid mind except maybe he does and he knows what he is doing.

B&O should simply partner with multiple designer labels and make electronics for them. That's what it should do. B&O has the know how of making sleek electronics and fashion labels will sooner rather than later be selling electronics *** fashion apparels. Think Chanel makeup applicator in The Fifth Element. 

If I am a person looking for discrete high performing home electronics I wouldn't go for B&O. Why would a person with means and the advanced planning buy from a house with electronics aren't so high performing and not all that invisible but still requires custom installation?

Really doesn't make sense. 

B&O should focus on their core capabilities:

1.Quality

2. Design

3. Quality

4. Ease of use

5. Quality

6. Product interaction

7. Quality

pacificocean:

B&O should focus on their core capabilities:

1.Quality

2. Design

3. Quality

4. Ease of use

5. Quality

6. Product interaction

7. Quality

4 & 6 have been stepchildren for far too long. Move em up to the head of line!

B

soundproof:

"Ask Bang & Olufsen's principal designer David Lewis, what his dream is and he will tell you that it's to create the first truly invisible loudspeaker."

I would say now is his best chance. 

symmes:

soundproof:

"Ask Bang & Olufsen's principal designer David Lewis, what his dream is and he will tell you that it's to create the first truly invisible loudspeaker."

I would say now is his best chance. 

*Made in Heaven*..?

(he is dead, you know...)

Steffen:

symmes:

soundproof:

"Ask Bang & Olufsen's principal designer David Lewis, what his dream is and he will tell you that it's to create the first truly invisible loudspeaker."

I would say now is his best chance. 

 

*Made in Heaven*..?

(he is dead, you know...)

That'll make it a bit easier.