ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I am really dissappointed with the newer designs of Bang&Olufsen and B&O Play.
I used to buy B&O for the design and also the quality. It was especially the design that first drew me to B&O, because it was so different to anything else. The last product I bought was a BV11, which was still inspired by BV10 and Davis Lewis. None of the newer products have really caught my attention. The new Beolab 14 is also a dissappointment to me. The materials used look very nice, but the overall design is just missing something. And I don't even want to start talking about the B&O Play range.
I used to be addicted to Bang&Olufsen, but with the current line up of new products, they are going to lose a fan and customer.:(
Just some of my thoughts...
Beovision 11-55, Beovision 10-46, Beovision 7-40, Beocenter 6-23, Beosound 9000, Beolab 18, Beolab 19, 2xBeolab 3, Beolab 8000, Beolab 6000, Beolab 2, Beocom 6000, Beosound 3, Playmaker
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Well said, Chris!
Greetings Millemissen
There is a tv - and there is a BV
I miss Jacob Jensen.
Chris Townsend: The worlds changed, and B&O is responding accordingly.
The worlds changed, and B&O is responding accordingly.
Sadly, if anything the BL12 and BL14 are much more '90s' in design terms, for me. Lots of chrome. I don't want lots of chrome. I don't mind the slightly grainy chrome surround on my BV11, but that's as much shiny chrome I want in my home.
Even my dealer sounds like he's a bit embarrassed demonstrating the BL12's on floorstands - they just don't look right. I know there are people on here that love them, but they aren't for me.
I do like lots of recent stuff, such as the BV11, BL11, A8, A9, but many of these were sourced from the time David Lewis was designing the products.
I completely agree. Times change, design evolves. Easy to over-romanticise the past. I personally think the new products are fantastic and I think it's great how they are using a new generation of design talent. Red dot design awards (for the V1 and BeoLit 12) are surely testament to this.
I also used to live in this past. And back then I was excited about new Bang&Olufsen products...
Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)
I read a clever point in a post a long time ago discussing the need for mechanical movement in AV has massively diminished. In a world of streaming and digital music there is far less physical media, hence no business sense in trying to accommodate it.
The mechanics is arguably one of the most beautiful features of a B&O product, if you think of a BS9000 or a BeoCenter 9500, they are a pleasure to your ears, eyes but also touch. Currently the only mechanical movements I can think of is the motorised TV stands, the BV7 DVD/BR tray and aerial on the BS3.
Being fortunate to have just purchased a motorised wall bracket for my BV7 40 the TV now has massive wow factor, it is hard not to enjoy watching the smooth, silent and seamless movement as the TV moves into position – a real pleasure and a real B&O differentiator.
It seems that technology has a lot to answer for when it comes to the homogenised look of AV products these days, much harder to differentiate between brands. I don’t know what the answer is, that’s for the designers but I think the poster had an interesting point.
danezro:Currently the only mechanical movements I can think of is the motorised TV stands, the BV7 DVD/BR tray and aerial on the BS3.
and the bs5 wheel !
4 beolab 5, beolab 9, beolab 10, beolab 5000, beolab 8000 mk2, beolab 6002, beolab 3500, beovision 7 55 mk2, 2 beovision 11 46 mk4, beotime, beosound ouverture, beosound essence, beoplay A8, beomaster 900 RG de luxe and the collection continues...
I agree!
Edde
I miss David Lewis, too. Some of B&Os latest products really are quite ugly, IMHO.
Me too. The modern stuff looks like its either rushed see the playmaker , retro nonsense see that awful brick radio or plain weird see that bass drum on wooden legs.
id like to know what they're smoking in the design dept these days
Thorsten Valeur designed BV10 too. BeoPlay products are designed too be different from the main products.
jkhamler: I completely agree. Times change, design evolves. Easy to over-romanticise the past. I personally think the new products are fantastic and I think it's great how they are using a new generation of design talent. Red dot design awards (for the V1 and BeoLit 12) are surely testament to this.
Don't be overly impressed by a Red Dot award - firstly you have to apply to be judged, then (if wiki is to believed)
in 2008, there were over 3.200 submissions from 51 countries for the product design prize (with 676 winning) ......
i.e. a ratio of just over 1 in 4 entrants "win".
Finally the "winners package" costs from 2820 Euros, with what appears like additional costs to exhibit in the museum!!
Award or purchased advertising service???
Ban boring signatures!
I do agree. But maybe we all just stuck in the time we first saw B&O. I still love the brushed metal and wood look of the Jacob Jensen products. The lab 12 is just completely terrible, as for the lab 14, I guess it's nice that they have a product in this category, it doesn't have any B&O magic for me though.
I can't believe the V1 won any awards , it's a design disaster.
Flappo: I can't believe the V1 won any awards , it's a design disaster.
My thoughts exactly...
This is quite amusing as the thread echoes one on the Alfa Romeo forum criticising the latest Alfa ,the Giulietta for not being like the old "real" Alfas.
i recently bought both a Giulietta and a beoplay V1 . The latter is ,for me, a return to the subtle architecture which drew me to buy an MX before it. It looks like a part of the house as opposed to something showy. I did not want piano black and chrome casings from Samsung or Sony and the matt finished metal of the V1 gives us this, rather than an enormous Mobile phone.
the Alfa, well it speaks for itself..
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
I totally love the Lewis designs like the beosystem 7000 and 9000, beosound 9000, Ouverture, BL8000, beolab 3,5, 9 and some more. I have some of them in daily use.
However I my honest opinion, I find he really did some disasters as well.. like the beo5, beosound4, beosound 2, beolab 4 etc. I do put the A3, playmaker and beolab12 series in this category as well as I find them weak evolutions of David Lewis designs.
They totally lost my interest in new designs somewhere in the late 90ies till about a year or two ago.
B&O did the right thing with stopping to produce all the outdated items. I didn't like it at first but now feel that B&O is more ready to move forward.
The new models are a lot more current, My wife loves the beolit 12 and now wants one!!! Mission accomplished for B&O!The A8 is still just about the best sounding dock out there. The look you either love or hate...The A9 proves that B&O dares to explore out of the box concepts!!!! The v1 proves that tv's don't have to look piano lacquer black by default and the ceiling mount is again a proof that B&O is thinking beyond 1995 standards and is taking risks. I might not like the design 100%, but I do applaud the effort to be different. Maybe they'll get it right with the next version!
The black&alu combo is after 30 yrs sooooo dated and tired. Sorry guys, but that's my point of view.
Beolab14 is a product that is way overdue and it certainly has my interest as do the new headphones... again which are way overdue....
I finally am looking forward to put a foot into the local store again after now 3 or 4 yrs...
It's a post I wanted to write for a while.
So, no I do NOT miss David Lewis and yes, I do appreciate all the things he did right, but I am also looking forward to more input, ideas and new concepts by other designers. If any company has the pedigree to do think beyond black boxes, it's B&O.
I agree and if aluminium has an advantage rather than being a finish ,then it can still be used!
They need to concentrate on the new media and how they can relate to beautiful boxes that don't feel alien to the surrounding environment .
I miss David Lewis, I have to admit. He produced some of the truly stunning and iconic designs for B&O, including my BS9000/BL8000 combo. I also liked Jacob Jensen's stuff. Time will tell on the new products as they come into being. I think the Lab 14 is neat, same for the Beolit 12, etc. What I am not that fond of are the Lab 9 and Lab 12 series. Neither really do it for me at all.I understand why the 12's are designed the way they are, for wall mounting, but the older BL and BVox 3000-5000 series are better looking to me.
But I think the comments made about the changing of sources for audio/video removing a lot of the room for distinction between B&O and other brands rings true. As I mentioned in another thread, no matter what we old farts think the days of physical media and such are gone for the most part. That minimizes the kinds of tactile and visual feedback and design elements that can be made. Think back to say the 70's, every brand had their own design language and colors, even among the more proletarian big receivers of the day. Green lights for HK, blue for Marantz, clear for Pioneer, etc. Same with button and knob styles. B&O went their own way obviously. But now, with your phone or tablet serving as the interface there's not much there to hang your hat on.
Video displays and speakers are about it. There's also less reason than ever to have a main audio product, a source product like a receiver or such, as a focal point in a room. The market and technology have both moved in ways that take away from one of B&Os main strengths, so it will be interesting to see how things progress. BTW, I like the look of the BS5.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Anybody else think Jonathan Ives at apple has adopted and developed the Lewis style?
Jeff:I miss David Lewis, I have to admit. He produced some of the truly stunning and iconic designs for B&O, including my BS9000/BL8000 combo. I also liked Jacob Jensen's stuff. Time will tell on the new products as they come into being. I think the Lab 14 is neat, same for the Beolit 12, etc. What I am not that fond of are the Lab 9 and Lab 12 series. Neither really do it for me at all.I understand why the 12's are designed the way they are, for wall mounting, but the older BL and BVox 3000-5000 series are better looking to me.
I don't think the BL snf BV300-5000 was ever designed by Lewis. It was Gideon Lindinger-Lowy.A fantastic design that was way ahead of its time.
Simonbeo: Anybody else think Jonathan Ives at apple has adopted and developed the Lewis style?
Both were inspired by Dieter Rams' principles I would say.
cooldude: Simonbeo: Anybody else think Jonathan Ives at apple has adopted and developed the Lewis style? Both were inspired by Dieter Rams' principles I would say.
.........on the other hand David Lewis didn't just do varying sized flat rectangles with rounded corners - still, David Lewis never got a patent for it either!
No, he has adopted the Jacob Jensen style. Lewis wanted to spirit away all mention of Jensen from B&O, but everything worth remembering in the design of B&O was established by Jacob Jensen. People forget, like the person just above who thinks Lewis designed the Beosystem 5000-7000. Which is where Ive got a lot of this inspiration.
Flappo:I can't believe the V1 won any awards , it's a design disaster.
soundproof:No, he has adopted the Jacob Jensen style. Lewis wanted to spirit away all mention of Jensen from B&O, but everything worth remembering in the design of B&O was established by Jacob Jensen. People forget, like the person just above who thinks Lewis designed the Beosystem 5000-7000. Which is where Ive got a lot of this inspiration.
How many of these threads do we really need?
It's obviously important to people. Is there a book on the subject of bang and olufsen design?
Ahh another "I love Bang and Olufsen, I love Bang and Olufsen not" thread... Age old discussion but it's true that of late this has become a hotter topic.
A controversial opinion but honestly, if the company ceased existing today I wouldn't much care. If anything, this might even have a positive impact on the value of some of the classic products. I am an audiophile not a videophile, and I am a lover of "gadgets" and "gimmicks". The era of melded design, sound, and mechanics of these "gadgets and gimmicks" for B&O has passed. This is not their fault, but a product of the way things are done today. Parts are no longer available from B&O for many of the products I hold in high esteem anyway, so the truth is I would much rather have the company cease to exist, BEFORE it falls into lockstep with Nakamichi and so many others throughout history that began "Chinafying" certain products, then sold out to the Chinese altogether. Now you can buy "Nakamichi" headphones for 20.00 at K-Mart.
Someone mentioned Jony Ive and Apple, and the truth is that Apple is going through a transformation of similar gravity itself. With many of Apple's most die-hard fans and users in the professional community abandoning the brand because it has lost its desire to serve the professional community, axing one high end product after another and now, with serious doubts that the Mac Pro will ever be replaced or updated. The difference is that "consumer focused" Apple does well, while B&O have to be careful about going too far downmarket because of an image THEY created for themselves.
Appreciate Bang and Olufsen for what it is and what it has produced. Revel in the fact that in an industry that is about the latest and greatest, this is one of the FEW brands in technological history that has an entire FOLLOWING of devotees who appreciate the "old". But the "old" will never be new, and this era has passed. Truth be told, I don't even believe that BL5 is going to be replaced with a product of exceeding or perhaps even equal caliber.
soundproof: Simonbeo: Anybody else think Jonathan Ives at apple has adopted and developed the Lewis style? No, he has adopted the Jacob Jensen style. Lewis wanted to spirit away all mention of Jensen from B&O, but everything worth remembering in the design of B&O was established by Jacob Jensen. People forget, like the person just above who thinks Lewis designed the Beosystem 5000-7000. Which is where Ive got a lot of this inspiration.
Between the two designers, Jensen and Lewis, as much as I like Jensen's work I think Lewis' was better design. Some of that is the designer, some undoubtedly the technology and product type he was presented with to design around. And certainly some of Lewis' doesn't float my boat, as in the BS4.
I guess out of the "new" stuff, the thing I find the most visually disappointing is the Lab 12 series, and the Lab 9. Mounted on a wall the 12s look pretty good, but not on stands. I always liked the Lab 4000 on the wall, and given the difference in length of the 12s it would have seemed like a longer 4000 with more woofer would look good, albeit it wouldn't be as easy to incorporate the acoustic lens into. The 9s just look too squat and dumpy, but perhaps that's due to my long experience with the 8000s which present a completely different visual style.
At any rate, it is what it is, the days of electro/mechanical marvels is gone and not likely to come back outside of us Luddites who still like these things. Heck I even have tube amps, tube radios, and old Karlson speaker cabinets around for hobby kinds of systems. I do think a lot of people's problems with B&O are rooted in problems with future shock as in not liking the results of the whole streaming technology/culture and lack of real media.
cooldude: I totally love the Lewis designs like the beosystem 7000 and 9000, beosound 9000, Ouverture, BL8000, beolab 3,5, 9 and some more. I have some of them in daily use.
Beosystem 7000 was designed by Jacob Jensen -so was Beosystem (center) 9000. Yes -Lewis designed the BeoSound 9000 -which was very much JJ inspired: Straight lines/brushed Alu/Black plastic/glass...
Jeff:I do think a lot of people's problems with B&O are rooted in problems with future shock as in not liking the results of the whole streaming technology/culture and lack of real media.
Exactly!
The migration was so aeonically subtle, we pipe & slipperers completely missed it!
Or was it B&o?