ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I've been going into quite a few closed down or 'closing down' dealerships over the last few months and it's really saddened me to see the Bang & Olufsen logo disappearing from so many high streets. I've met some bitterly disappointed and despondent dealers who have lost a lot of money and what they thought was their pension fund is now gone without a trace..
However, the one thing which I find a bit odd (and they find annoying) is the stream of customers coming in on the final days to either buy products in the closing down sale, or say how sorry they are to see them go - and they will be sorely missed. The general feeling is "if you'd have actually used the store and bought products, we wouldn't be closing down!" so I see their frustration.
My question is - what stopped you from going into your local store, or any store? I can see the following reasons myself, but you could maybe add more..
1) You're happy to do your research online and buy direct from B&O
2) The shop assistants are too pushy
3) The shop assistants actually know LESS about the product than you do
4) The stores are all out of date and not attractive enough to tempt you in
5) You don't buy new any more, it's just not good enough value for money to you
6) You'd like to see B&O in a multibrand setting. Less pressure and better comparison with brand X/Y/Z
7) You don't actually like your local store!
I'm sure there are many more, but I'd like to understand more exactly why so many of the B1 stores couldn't justify staying open any longer.. I find it sad to see so many genuinely nice people pushed into this position.
Lee
2 and 3
Interesting question ... I am lucky to live in a city where there are 3 B&O stores, although at times there have been 4 maybe 5.
They have always been part of the same franchise, or now under B&O control.
So while I am sure the various store staff are "competing" for the same consumer dollar I have always felt comfortable visiting the various "branches".
However the skills and approaches do vary between the "branches".
However to answer the question -- I tend to go to the city story during the week or when I have small purchases, and I go to the suburban store with easier parking over the weekend when I have bigger purchases -- perhaps a bit unfair on the individual sales people.
As noted below I have slowed down my "big" (not big enough says the sales person!) purchases while I have waited for the ML/NL strategy to settle down -- so yes, I am in a bit of a holding pattern right now. But luckily I do have the main rooms covered -- and to move beyond that needs a break of one fashion or another with the ML past.
So in the future I would like to buy:
But to answer your options:
1) You're happy to do your research online and buy direct from B&O <== not available in Australia
2) The shop assistants are too pushy <== in my experience (now close to 30 years) those who are tend not to last
3) The shop assistants actually know LESS about the product than you do <== clearly true for vintage, and often true for exotic options
4) The stores are all out of date and not attractive enough to tempt you in <== I actually prefer the layout of the older store -- and think the recent addition of concrete BeoPlay plinths is ridiculous
5) You don't buy new any more, it's just not good enough value for money to you <== clearly not true, I think value for money is improving -- but there has been somewhat of an hiatus
6) You'd like to see B&O in a multibrand setting. Less pressure and better comparison with brand X/Y/Z <== the multi-brand stores are useful for visual comparison of TV PQ -- but I have always found their staff less knowledgeable (this is a comment about a Sydney store years ago, Harrods, and Selfridges)
7) You don't actually like your local store! <== I actually like the people ! but I will still say the Newcastle-upon-Tyne store is the best (and that includes comparison with stores in Denmark, Singapore, Hong Kong, London, Sydney)
BeoNut since '75
Only number 6 strikes a chord with me,there is something a little unsettling about B&O stores that you can’t just have a look around feeling relaxed, not necessarily that the assistants are pushy more the general atmosphere . A bit like the feeling of walking into an exclusive designer clothes store in an exclusive part of town dressed in some old shorts and a t-shirt.
In the U.S. there simply are not enough stores and you can't buy online here. The move away from multi-brand stores was a mistake in my opinion since it took them out of most major markets in this part of the world. I can think of 3 or 4 products off the top of my head that despite me traditionally NOT buying "new" I would likely have purchased on impulse while visiting a B&O store or authorized reseller. Stands, boxes, Beo 6, Playmaker and probably trade-in equipment for the dealers that support it.
In this country, it's actually easier to buy used and buy online than it is to buy new unless you are in one of the few markets they serve. However I was fortunate enough to call a dealer in a city about 400 miles away who actually travels to my area on a regular basis and considers my city his territory. This kind of service could sway me toward more new purchases in the future.
Of course, if B&O makes new products I have no interest in, it doesn't much matter either way.
As an interesting sidenote... Bang and Olufsen is one of the few products I've ever used or followed where the U.S. participation and market actually feels like an afterthought and U.S. members of this site are a minority.
Hi Lee,
thanks for asking, Here are my 2 cents ;-)
I love to have the store experience but hej I am at beoworld and assume the dealer is barely able to provide me with additional information;-)
In Munich they are not, in Nuremberg I have the feeling, therefore I am going to Munic.
Jeah! I am a beoworlder ;-)
No
Well I have moved recently and budget is allocated somewhere else.
No need for that, but some dealers seem not be willing to integrate non-Beo into BEO installation.
I prefer the "old" local one in Munich above the new local one in Nuremberg
BS9000, BC6, BC2, BL3, BL11, BL3500, BL2000, BeoTime, Beo EarSet2 3i, Beo, BEO DropStop, BEO Bottle Opener, BeoCom5 including Table Stand, ATV
Christmas Prize Draw 1st Winner 2010 - THANKS A LOT!!!
Struer Trip 2012 - THANKS A LOT!!!
Well for me the main reason to stop buying is the lack of products that appeal to me rather than any of the points you raised. I started off with Beosound 9000 - the first moment i saw that I was totally hooked on its looks and function. A deeply impressive product in the 1990s that made me drool and made want to empty my bank balance for it. I had a Bs5 for 2 years but I found the wheel irksome and not at all intuitive so i sold it and when that happened it was a domino effect - I then sold my Beolab 5 & 3 speakers as there was no good having speakers but no audio product. The lack of an audio product that appeals to me (i know some love the Bs5) has now made slowly sell off all of my gear. There is little to nothing now that excites me in the current line-up but I know it's a tough time for all including B&0 trying to navigate the digital music era - how do you combine streaming and fantastic design...? I have also been a little frustrated with how slow B&O have been in developing software for their products. All my WMA lossless files that play on my Bs5 couldn't be played on my ipod to work and back everyday (i commute for 3 hours per day) and vice versa. I think B&O are not completely to blame - my BL5 when pushed sounded tinny and the treble could be quite acute and I still felt they sounded too digital with insufficient detail. I recently auditioned a Naim NDS and the clarity and detail into an average pair of B&W loudspeakers overtook the Bs5+BL5 setup by a big margin. The lack of DAC development in the BL5, the lack of DAC being able to handle new 24 bit, 192 KHz high res files, the irksome wheel and the lack of apple lossless incompatibility was the nail in the coffin. I still love B&O, want them to do well and am slowly saving so may be B&O will deliver that killer audio product soon. The dealers were mostly good over the years but in the last 2 years even in them i detected some frustration about the product line up; when dealers start losing faith in their products it's easily apparent.
.
Present: BL90, Core, BL6000, CD7000, Beogram 7000, Essence Remote.
Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, BC2, BS5, BV5, BV4-50, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4, Moment.
9 LEE: 5) You don't buy new any more, it's just not good enough value for money to you
This pretty much sums up my buying. I've rarely bought anything 'new', apart from BeoPlay products, for a few years now. I tend to purchase nearly-new, pre-loved and so on. Mostly these items are dealer ex-demo stock and in very good condition, if not mint.
Also, don't forget that B&O kit was designed to last years. That's always been their sales policy. Buy quality, keep quality. Few people need to keep upgrading their speakers, thus most existing B&O customers don't need to buy new kit as often as they might have done in the past. We also know they are struggling to attract brand new customers, which means fewer sales.
My dealer is fine. Although I think it could do with a visual update, the guys are fine, products are fine. No real complaints about the dealership.
9 LEE:However, the one thing which I find a bit odd (and they find annoying) is the stream of customers coming in on the final days to either buy products in the closing down sale
Sadly that's not odd, it's life. When Comet closed down, I saw threads galore, all over the internet, asking what 'bargains' can be found in their closing down sale. People love to think they've got a bargain, whatever the source of the bargain.
Funny thing is, lots of these threads had complaints - yes complaints - from people saying that the bargains weren't good enough in the Comet sale and people expected better! No discussion on the fact Comet was closing for good, just that they were disappointed they'd gone all the way to their store, to find, perhaps, 20% off.
Being that I previously worked for Bang & Olufsen for years, I have found that #3 applies to me the most, but another factor is poor customer service. I ordered items from a store and was promised a phone call when those items would become available for pickup. No call. I just had to come in much later only to discover that my ordered (and paid for) items were sitting in the back storage room. Now I buy only from my "insider" contacts. I get dealer pricing and no run-around.
BeoLab 5, BeoVision 7-55 MK2, BeoSound 5 Encore, BeoSound 9000, BeoLab Penta III, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 6000, BeoLab 2, BeoLab 7-6, BeoSound 8, BeoTime (analog clock), Beo 4 remote.
Looks like a poll B&O should have made years ago!
For my part, I don't even have a B&O dealer around anymore on the island, I went to see B&O France to apply as a dealer, and their conditions were so stringent that I chose another path.
I'd say 1/3/7 are the main reasons why I don't buy B&O anymore, the TVs are too expensive, audio systems are disappearing, I already have all the speakers I need, the dealers know less than I do technically, and second hand prices (and items) are more attractive now.
My next TV will probably be a second hand BV9, and not a BV11, even if if has all the features I'm looking for (= connectivity & auto updates), I would need the 55 inch version and this one is still too expensive for me..
9 LEE: 4) The stores are all out of date and not attractive enough to tempt you in
No 4 in one regard: Outside the shop you get the impression: That's a shop for wealthy ears and eyes. But inside you are welcome. The staff is very helpful, takes every visitor seriously, not only those who have it written on their brow: I am a wealthy guy and potential customer.
Therefore I am not stopping to enter and to dream about a pair of BL9s. To my great luck the dealer knows to wait, as he did in the years I entered the shop without buying anything. And then it started with a pair of Form 2 headphones ...
... and continued with a BeoSound 2, a pair of BeoVox Penta, a BeoTalk 1200, a Serenata, a BeoCom 5, a BeoVision 8-40 (later adding a non B&O bluray player and Technisat Recever), a BeoSound 8, a pair of used BeoLab 4000, a BeoPlay A3, a pair of floorstands for my BeoLab 4000s ...
That looks like an infection with the well dreaded virus ...
Peter the Biker: No 4 in one regard: Outside the shop you get the impression: That's a shop for wealthy ears and eyes. But inside you are welcome. The staff is very helpful, takes every visitor seriously, not only those who have it written on their brow: I am a wealthy guy and potential customer.
True, but I kid you not, the Bath store suffers badly from vagrants camping outside the store after it closes. Seriously. People sit outside, beg for money and even sleep in the door way.
So, during the day it's aiming itself at these wealthy shoppers, but from 6pm onwards, you get homeless people camping in the doorway. You couldn't make it up.
For me it was 7 first of all. The local dealer was so snooty and intransigent that I would go instead, twenty or even forty miles to more welcoming details. More recently it's been a bit of point 4: I just don't recognise the value in the RRP.
Overall, though, dealers experiences seem to echo the 'Woolworths effect'. When Woolworths closed down so many people said what a shame it was and how it was an essential part of the high street but then many of those, when pressed as to when they last went in a store and what they bought were left scratching their heads. We take the stores for granted and expect them to be there for that rare and perhaps distant occasion when we decide we want to go in and shop
Hearing getting worse, TVs too expensive for the difference and everything I want is done by my present system!
Would love BL5s, I think but would be too expensive to consider - getting hall decorated instead!!
Peter
I did not stop - the money stopped me!
Greets MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen:I did not stop - the money stopped me!
That's the same as my number 8, I guess: they don't carry anything that I both a) need b) can afford.
I still drop in every now and then to buy the occasional spare part or cable, and I have always felt welcome. Especially when the store owner is there.
--mika
For me it's
1) You're happy to do your research online and buy direct from B&O. In this day and age: YES
3) The shop assistants actually know LESS about the product than you do. Maybe they don't know less, but the times they can't tell me anything I already know are numerous. In fact, this is true not only for B&O stores. Must have something to do with point 1.
5) You don't buy new any more, it's just not good enough value for money to you.
7) You don't actually like your local store! I once asked them about a new product. They had it in store, but it wasn't on display, it was still boxed somewhere in the storage. I did get to see it, but it wasn't connected which is only half the experience. I found out that they've had it for two days... Not how you run a business IMHO. At another point I asked them if it was possible for me to compare two TV's head to head. Yes of course it was, they would call me back the next day. Nothing happened. So after a while I asked them again. The very friendly guy in the shop(not the same as the first one) told me it was no problem and he would call me back tomorrow. This happened ages ago and I'm still waiting.
8) My interests have shifted a bit. I hardly watch TV, maximum of 3 hours a week. In fact I haven't switched on the TV for over a week now as we speak. I thought about replacing my MX 7000, but when it breaks down, the first option would be not to replace it at all. More or less the same for listening to the radio or music. Still I'm loyal to the brand.
Vähintään yhdeksänkymmentä prosenttia suomalainen!
tournedos:I still drop in every now and then to buy the occasional spare part or cable, and I have always felt welcome. Especially when the store owner is there.
Good. I've been to several B&O stores in Denmark, the ones in Helsinki, Espoo and recently two shops in New York. Had a good experience there.
Millemissen: I did not stop - the money stopped me! Greets MM
You 're not the only one with that problem....haha
Hello Lee!
Any chance of you visiting Finland this year?
To answer your question... My top two picks from your alternatives would be:
"2) The shop assistants are too pushy
3) The shop assistants actually know LESS about the product than you do"
I would add, that the brand isn't keeping up with technology, and that is somewhat understandable since the rate is crazy at the moment. What I would like to see though is easier and better connectivity's to other brands.
Too long to list....
Barry Santini:I haven't stopped. But B&O sometimes seems to stick their head in the ground. I think they absolutely do not understand the current state of the American market. I think stores are increasingly obsolete. A traveling van, or quick set-up scheme, like a pop-up store, is the a pop route I'd take to bring BnO to the public, since the public is NOT going into the stores!
You sure? Trip always said he can barely keep up with demand.
I think the sales people could loose the suit as well!
Many years ago I stumbled across a B&O store in Auckland, New Zealand. I knew immediately this was a special type of store, but I wandered in anyway, just to take a look at the amazing products. WOW. I was hooked. The sales guy was professional, not pushy, handed me the remote and left me to have a play with the products. At the time he had just opened the AV5 in the burnt orange colour - he invited me to watch some of a movie and experience the TV and surround sound. It totally blew me away. I was left with a brochure, a card and a huge wish list.
I worked for B&O for some time and no matter who entered the store, I replicated that unique experience. I also held numerous successful events, developed marketing collateral and inspiring reasons to enter the store. This relationship marketing was to develop loyalty and ongoing business with new and existing clients. The clients loved it. Even if they weren't buying, they loved coming to the shop, having a coffee and pastry. play their latest tracks or watch a movie they have
Now I don't work for B&O sadly. I work in the boring world of finance, but I keep flying the B&O flag to whomever I meet. But the problem I have here in Australia, is that although I like attending the local shops - they rarely stay in contact with me, or even give me a reason to visit them. I receive precious little invitations to new product launches (where I could bring some well heeled friends) or updates at all.
I still love the products, but I think they could be doing more - trading in old products (giving me an excuse to purchase newer stuff - then on-selling to people who want to get into B&O) offering payment plans / interest free deals, retention marketing activities - say "special deals"on music / movies for owners / invitations to exclusive B&O and other events etc/ They just seemed to have given up making me feel special.
So, when it comes to buying, it can now be hard to justify. Let me tell you why in my mind. If I buy a cheap Samsung 55"LED TV (not too bad either really...) I pay a fraction of what B&O charge and receive precious little but the actual product. I might get a newsletter or welcome letter, but that's it. With B&O I get about the same these days. So why should I pay a premium for little more than a smaller TV -albeit better.
For me, I think that's where B&O has started to lose its shine. You can put up with a lot when you know its a smaller company, but offers more in terms of experience. However, as a premium company it needs to re-examine its premium service strategy.
I know there are issues with its product line up- but these are due to be addressed, so I'm not too worried about that.
My two cents..
Peter:getting hall decorated instead!!
My wholehearted recommendation for Stonk. He is fab!
OT: I simply got bored!
For me it's more being completely happy with what I've got now, plus picking up interesting ML stuff used to be able to afford it with the price of the new house. Oh, and my wife's family just closed a store they owned, and heard the same thing from people, and had the same reaction, why didn't you shop here before, we might still be in business.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
hello,
for me it's 3 the big problem. the staff just aren't up-to-date on what can be done. for example, i use the lexcom b&o solution for wiring. the dealer had no idea about what i was talking about ; i had to give him the reference to order the cable i needed from b&o !
but we here are truly 'geek' users, i don't think we are typical clients.
another example, when the dealer came to install a bv7 he tried to talk me out of installing multiple video sources because it was too complicated. and he thought i was crazy to use the bv7 for video distribution. this isn't geek, thi is basic usage.
so what is the value-added to go into the dealer ?
i am rambling a bit, but just my 2 cents.
- scott
I understand peoples despondency to an extent, but when i look at what was on offer just a few short years ago, and now i look at the Beovision 11-65, the 11 range, the Playmaker, the Beoplay range of A8, Beolit, and the A9, the new headphones, i'm confident that B&O is changing its whole course to address a much changing market.
Prices are starting to come down in some areas(albeit the H3 buds are twice the price of the A8 headphones grrrr) and whereas in the past you might have bought a Century or Beosound 9000, now i can buy an A9. Not the same mechanical wow factor i admit, but as an integrated system for the iPhone market its brilliant(and unique)
I wonder how we will see this thread in 12 months time
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
To me it has always been a question of my personal income and budget so B&O stores has never been a place where I have bought any B&O related items.
Then again I got no trouble going into them and see what is there. Back in the early '90s it was quickly in, see the prices and then out again.
When it comes to what to buy I would say that the new Beovisions looks really nice but with the amount of tv programs that is really not worth spending your time on there is a fine line there but it is not B&O versus any other brand tv for me if I really wanted to buy one.
So basically I never started!
2, 3, 5
I have stopped buying for none of above reasons.
I think B&O lost the "wow factor" in a lot of their lines.
I have a lot of classic stuff which I really enjoy and have seen nothing new to tempt me.
Love to get a BV 55 but It would look to big in my house.
If I had to pick one, I'd say 5, but it is not quite that simple.
For the most part, I have what I want and B&O hasn't produced much lately that changes my opinion. I've already ML'd my home, and I don't have an iPhone so none of the recent products appeal to me. My wife has an iPhone and I did offer to get a Playmaker so she could stream from her phone, but she said "nah" (if I could stream Nokia music from my Lumia 920 (IMHO, one of the best thing about this phone), I'd have one, but there are no airplay or DLNA apps that support this today). Also, as I grown more familiar with the brand, I've bought used whenever possible. The last time I was considering a new purchase, it was hard to justify new BL9s (hard to find used in the US) when I found an great deal on a pair of used BL1s that sound almost as good to my ears (and my wife likes the looks better).
My local shop is OK. There's a sales guy who knows me by name (he sold me a lot over the years), and we chat from time to time. Sure, I'd love some BL5s or a bigger BV, but I can't justify the cost/performance vs doing nothing. B&O will really have to work some magic on price/performance/wow to break me from my status quo. I like what I have, and it works well... so I guess it has nothing to do with the "retail experience"
Stan
8) my wife......
When I first visited the B&O store in Castle Street, Liverpool some years ago I believe it was a franchise with a local owner. I bought an Avant..... In those days this TV sold itself!
The staff were helpful, but their approach to customer relations was completely wrong. The front door of the shop was always locked and you had to ring to gain entry. Not a good way to get new customers. In due course I think that that particular franchise failed, and the store reverted to B&O UK.
The store now maintains an unlocked front door, and the staff are very knowledgable and not at all pushy. They go out of their way to maintain customer contact. Having said that, the store is located just outside the 'Liverpool One' shopping area and is at the boundary of the business District. They do not get the passing footfall that the Apple and Sony stores get within 'Liverpool One'.
My experience at a certain Yorkshire dealership, reported elsewhere, is a totall different story. I am amazed that that particular store stays in business.
Graham
Good question Lee,
Many factors contributed to me not buying anything B&O for the last 20 yrs.
First and maybe foremost : The closed system. In order to take advantage of all the possibilities the system could offer you need to invest in a beovision linked to a beosound and off course use beolab speakers. B&O's particular system quirks (mastelink and later MLGW/netlink) require unconprehensibele setups, special cables and converter boxes and has now grown now into an expensive, underperforming mess that the dealers barely can figure out themselves. I asked my dealer a couple of question regarding hooking up a beosystem1. They could not give an answer and said that they'll call tomorrow to send a tech over to have a look at it..... off course I never heard back from them.
That brings me to the second part : Selling 90's and 00's B&O systems worked fine for a clientele that can just order the full system, have the pros in to install all of it and don't even blink when they write the cheque. I am not that clientele. Though financially I could afford a beovision, I certainly can't justify it's price tag.
Part 3 : B&O needs to get with the times. They brought out a new surround set of spearkers which is very nice. However what many of us really need is a good, more affordable and updated receiver type beosystem3 replacement that we can hook up all of our stuff to. From Blu ray to cable boxes to apple tv and nas units with integrated playmaker. All commanded by a good remote. I hate having to shell out $600 for a non B&O receiver right now.
Regarding the stores : I have had very different experiences. In Europe and the US I had excellent service in most stores I visited
Right now, my local store is basically 2 rooms in another store, but with it's own sales team.Mostly a closed door situation.I can't say they're pushy, more the contrary. I can hardly get them to answer some questions.
They only care about the current range of products. Any older units they don't particularly want to bother with.
Haven't put a foot in the store in over 2 years, honestly.
I do like some of the new items. I like the beosound 8 and the beolit12 and the beoplay A9 and even the beolab14. They show that B&O is still alive and still can give excellent products with great design with some out of the box thinking.
beocool: For me it's 1) You're happy to do your research online and buy direct from B&O. In this day and age: YES 3) The shop assistants actually know LESS about the product than you do. Maybe they don't know less, but the times they can't tell me anything I already know are numerous. In fact, this is true not only for B&O stores. Must have something to do with point 1. 5) You don't buy new any more, it's just not good enough value for money to you. 7) You don't actually like your local store! I once asked them about a new product. They had it in store, but it wasn't on display, it was still boxed somewhere in the storage. I did get to see it, but it wasn't connected which is only half the experience. I found out that they've had it for two days... Not how you run a business IMHO. At another point I asked them if it was possible for me to compare two TV's head to head. Yes of course it was, they would call me back the next day. Nothing happened. So after a while I asked them again. The very friendly guy in the shop(not the same as the first one) told me it was no problem and he would call me back tomorrow. This happened ages ago and I'm still waiting. 8) My interests have shifted a bit. I hardly watch TV, maximum of 3 hours a week. In fact I haven't switched on the TV for over a week now as we speak. I thought about replacing my MX 7000, but when it breaks down, the first option would be not to replace it at all. More or less the same for listening to the radio or music. Still I'm loyal to the brand.
Excellent points!