ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
"Bang & Olufsen are closing down TV-production in Struer
Bang & Olufsen will be closing down the production of TV-equipment in Struer during the next two years. About 50 people with be dismissed in 2015.
According to shop steward Karsten Grønholdt Hansen are about 75 employees going to be affected by this, dr.dk writes. B&O are hoping to find some new tasks for some of the employees so the number of dismissed employees is brought down to 50.
The last part of the production is moved to the Czech Republic where B&O already are producing stereos, loudspeakers and radios.
In January B&O announced, that they had to dismiss 64 employees in Struer. Back then it was both in the production and in the administration. Back then communications Manager Morten Juhl Madsen from B&O said to Børsen:
- We have to look at the cost level for the purpose of releasing our resources for our must win battles.
Today the company has about 1100 employees in Struer out of which 350 are located in the production."
Times are changing...
Too long to list....
B&O makes/designs/develops the products in Struer.
They are produced in the Czech or in China.
Where is the problem?
It is still B&O!
Grrr! Millemissen
There is a tv - and there is a BV
This is a very sad news to all B&O customers however" the writing was on the wall".
Very very sad!!! First production will be in Czech, then in another 20-30 years everything will be from China. Then B&O will have lost its distinctiveness and class. People WOULD NOT buy a Porsche made in China (at least I wouldn't anyway) or a neurotic woman a Prada handbag made in China instead of Italy. The country of manufacture of a product has a direct impact on its distinctiveness and prestige. China can probably manufacture to the same high standards as anyone, but consumers of high end products want more than that (at least I do anyway.) And this has nothing at all to do with being xenophobic. 99% of consumable goods we buy are made in China, when buying something special, it is nice to know it has a different origin from the norm. That gives it an distinction. Just like my first car, a Bertone x19, if it hadn't come from Italy, it wouldn't have had the same aura about it (lucky the engine was behind the seats, some idiot pulled out in front of me and the thing was smashed up to the windscreen, total write off. Love my little red rocket for saving me........
Rex: Very very sad!!! First production will be in Czech, then in another 20-30 years everything will be from China. Then B&O will have lost its distinctiveness and class. People WOULD NOT buy a Porsche made in China (at least I wouldn't anyway) or a neurotic woman a Prada handbag made in China instead of Italy. The country of manufacture of a product has a direct impact on its distinctiveness and prestige. China can probably manufacture to the same high standards as anyone, but consumers of high end products want more than that (at least I do anyway.) And this has nothing at all to do with being xenophobic. 99% of consumable goods we buy are made in China, when buying something special, it is nice to know it has a different origin from the norm. That gives it an distinction. Just like my first car, a Bertone x19, if it hadn't come from Italy, it wouldn't have had the same aura about it (lucky the engine was behind the seats, some idiot pulled out in front of me and the thing was smashed up to the windscreen, total write off. Love my little red rocket for saving me........
I would much rather they stop TV production altogether (as I predicted they SHOULD in the "what can B&O do to attract new customers" thread) and focus all their attention on loudspeakers, than to start building TVs to a cost in China. I don't actually think that it will ever get to that point, however (except for BeoPlay V1).
Sad news indeed. For dealers I know, TVs sales form the majority if their income.
With just loudspeakers and BeoPlay to sell, it would not make economic sense with the current product line up to be a B&O dealer.
StUrrock: Sad news indeed. For dealers I know, TVs sales form the majority if their income.
StUrrock, the article simply says the 'last part of production' (ie. assembly of TVs), it doesn't say they are pulling out of the TV business :)
moxxey:StUrrock, the article simply says the 'last part of production' (ie. assembly of TVs), it doesn't say they are pulling out of the TV business :)
Right on Rex.
StUrrock:The V1 is a great TV but the sales figures have been very poor.
It divided opinion (to say the least)! when it was released and was unlikely (at best) to be a big runner. If this came as a suprise to anyone at B&O then questions need to be asked!
Ban boring signatures!
BeoBoy68:I wrote allready that in the future B&O will be only a manufacture of Loudspeakers.
Loudspeakers.
They don't stop the TV production. You have to wait a while....like for your favorite apple tv. LOL
4 beolab 5, beolab 9, beolab 10, beolab 5000, beolab 8000 mk2, beolab 6002, beolab 3500, beovision 7 55 mk2, 2 beovision 11 46 mk4, beotime, beosound ouverture, beosound essence, beoplay A8, beomaster 900 RG de luxe and the collection continues...
StUrrock: The V1 is a great TV but the sales figures have been very poor.
The V1 is a great TV but the sales figures have been very poor.
Personally speaking, I wouldn't buy any B&O TV brand new. Not even the BV11. The only reason I bought the BV11 was from a decent trade-in deal on my BV10 (which was purchased after trading in my BV7-40). No way I'd go out and spend nearly £7K on a BV11-46 and this customerbase is certainly decreasing, rapidly.
Although I work in tech publishing, I don't know too many traditional B&O customers. The few customers I do know have stopped buying B&O TVs. They still go in to the store, but won't spend their cash - and spare cash isn't an issue - on a B&O TV. They've either kept their robust Avant (and have no intention of selling) or have migrated to another brand. They still have other B&O devices, but have moved on from the TVs.
The problem with the TV range is that the prices have generally increased year on year, yet you get exactly the same model - the BV7-40 is now completely out of my price range. It's about £11K? When I bought my first BV7-40 I'm sure it was about £7.5K. And that's expensive. People aren't stupid. As I've said in another thread, if you considered a BV7 a couple of years ago, noted the price was £9K, decided to finally take the plunge and give up your ageing Avant, walk in to the store two years later, you'd expect the price to have DROPPED. £9K two years ago? You'd expect £7K now, due to economies of scale kicking in. No, you'll find it's increased! How the dealer explains this away is anyone's guess. Must be an incredibly hard sell convincing your traditional customer-base that increasing prices - for the same TV - is justifiable in the consumer electronics market.
My dealer recently told me the BV7 sales are non-existent. So if the V1 and BV7 aren't selling, this is half the TV range.
Sad for the people losing their jobs but that is economics. but its not the end of bang and olufsen.
to my knowledge apple do not make anything in san francisco most stuff in china and apple is expensive and still going strong.
porsch might be assembled in germany but most parts will be sourced from china or eastern europe bosch have a lot of manufacturing facilities in china.
door handles for aston martin were supplied by Kia
As long as the standards are kept up it doesnt matter where they are made
malcolm.
Puncher:It divided opinion (to say the least)! when it was released and was unlikely (at best) to be a big runner. If this came as a suprise to anyone at B&D then questions need to be asked! Ban boring signatures!
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Chris Townsend: Puncher: It divided opinion (to say the least)! when it was released and was unlikely (at best) to be a big runner. If this came as a suprise to anyone at B&D then questions need to be asked! Agreed 100%. My 8-26 is a real looker in comparison!
Puncher: It divided opinion (to say the least)! when it was released and was unlikely (at best) to be a big runner. If this came as a suprise to anyone at B&D then questions need to be asked!
It divided opinion (to say the least)! when it was released and was unlikely (at best) to be a big runner. If this came as a suprise to anyone at B&D then questions need to be asked!
Chris, you mean you're not tempted by a brown V1? :) See http://beoplay.com/Products/BeoplayV1SE
As B&O say, it's a "A delicious treat for the modern connoisseur" !
What's wrong with this? http://beoplay.com/layouts/SBV-Custom/HMProductPage/assets/V1se/V1_SE_005.jpg. Surely it's a natural successor to your BV8?
Tonker:I'm telling you, there's a cushion obsessed woman that's responsible for this nonsense! They can't sell the bulk standard white IKEA one, let alone the 1970s British Rail tea trolley that is the, "special edition".
MartinW:I think something got lost here - TV production is not moving to China - it is moving to the Bang & Olufsen factory in the Czech Republic. China has nothing to do with it?!
No-one has said it's moving to China.
As much as it is nice to have the Made in Denmark sticker, surely if the manufacturing costs are cheaper with the same quality then the price of the product will decrease and allow B&O to compete fairly with their competition - no one in this thread has said that the price is fine for a new TV and they will go out and buy one, everyone has said it's too expensive compared to other brands. I would buy it if it's made in China and half the price - perhaps the sticker should say Designed in Denmark or something. Besides which half the components are most likely made in china and shipped to Denmark - so easier to build the products there and use existing distribution chains rather than than shipping from Denmark?
I would have thought any initiative to try and regain a competitive edge and lower prices would be good - mind you I have assumed that the prices will come down......
ajames: A I would buy it if it's made in China and half the price - perhaps the sticker should say Designed in Denmark or something.
A I would buy it if it's made in China and half the price - perhaps the sticker should say Designed in Denmark or something.
My new pair of H3's and H6's have that sticker. It says Designed in Denmark by Bang & Olufsen, Made in China. They don't feel any less Danish :)
Ah, you know... A little B&O here, a little there
moxxey:No-one has said it's moving to China.
Exept that H3's are packed like cheep supermarket 5$ headphones. Besides that they are fully Danish for me too.
I think that tv business is not in danger, not even close. We all grew up with jensen/lewis in our mind, bur B&O is company that always look into the future. No place for old gods.
Milos: Exept that H3's are packed like cheep supermarket 5$ headphones. Besides that they are fully Danish for me too. I think that tv business is not in danger, not even close. We all grew up with jensen/lewis in our mind, bur B&O is company that always look into the future. No place for old gods.
+1 ^^^
BeoVision Haermony 65"...BeoLab 28 Anthracite....BeoLab 17 as REAR....BV10-32....BC6-26....Beosound 9000....Beosound 1 New York edt....Beogram 4002....Beoplay Emerge....Beoplay M5....Beoplay M3....Beoremote Halo....BeoRemote One BT....Beo6....Beo4....Beo4 Cinema....BeoLink 7000....Serene....H95 Black LTD....H9i Rimowa....6 x H6....Form 1....U70...
Not many consumers care where Apple is producing... It is the design, the philosophy and the flavour built into the product. I am quite confident that B&O as well can design and build great stuff, ie TVs... Potentially with more economic scale to get the BV7 and BV11 line more competitive with this acknowledgingly sad move for Struer staff.
MartinW:I think its in a couple of posts here, definitely in Sturrock's
No, he's implying that's the path he can see them taking (ie. moving production to the Czech factory and, potentially, later, China, won't necessarily be the answer to improving sales).
If it saves the company and doesn't affect quality, I don't mind. It's hard to stay competive these days......
Sorry for those people who'll lose their jobs.
The Beovision 8 was made in China designed in Denmark and it was still too expensive to me. Same I believe with the V1. So there are other factors bedsides manufacturing location that result in higher prices.
Global trade and economics means that all companies, including B&O, have to compete in the same way to stay in business.
At the moment B&O have simply followed the general trend of going to Eastern Europe and then China. It's the same story with just about everything.
It won't always be like this. Countries have huge balance of trade deficits, and China is sat on billions of dollars paid for its goods.
Graham
What I love about this "let's give poor B&O a pass on manufacturing in China because they have to stay competitive" argument is the way it completely ignores the fact that B&O pricing on many products is on another planet entirely from the companies who HAVE to make such changes to meet the ever lowering price demands of customers. B&W make some speakers in China but guess what, the nicest speaker they make in China rings in at 3k per *pair* for the floorstanding CM9 towers. Move up to the 800 Series WHICH IS STILL MADE IN ENGLAND and that price nearly DOUBLES whilst simultaneously knocking you all the way down to a bookshelf sized speaker.
People don't seem to get it here. "Made in Denmark" isn't about practicality. It's about prestige on what many consider luxury products. When you're dropping this kind of coin you don't really give a rats behind how much better or worse the Danish versus the Chinese make the product. You paid to know it was made there no matter what it costs because there is a *perception* that the craftsmanship in the Danish made product is better and until such a magical day when someone actually considers "Made in China" a prestigious tag line, it will be viewed as the "budget" manufacturing center for all those "other" companies that are for everyone else. Now. Unlike some on the other extreme end of this argument, I give them a pass on things like the BeoPlay line (though the V1 costs as much as a Panasonic VT or even maybe a ZT60) and the headphones and such because THOSE products while priced at a higher level than the average competitor (and sometimes less), are designed to cater to and bring the B&O philosophy to a wider market at a more cost-sensitive price-point. I get it, they can't lose money there just to keep production in Denmark. But it sounds like some here don't care if production of the TVs DID move to China, even though that's not even what this thread is about. And that's ludicrous for a 12,000.00 TV to simply pay blind allegiance to a company and say whatever they do must be for the greater good. I love Apple, but I'm no where near the fanboi many are, and this "it's ok to move everything to China and I'll still love them" argument reeks of fanboism. As for Apple "getting a pass" for producing their goods in China, the simple truth is that Apple products may cost more than their counterparts, but not incredibly so. Not so much to demand US manufacturing certainly.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If B&O feel that they need to start shifting production to China and taking jobs away from long time and devoted Danish employees, then I don't really give a damn if the company ceases to exist anyway, as those employees are going to be out of a job *either* way. The Chinese workers? Yeah, someone else looking to build to a cost will find something for them to do every day of the week so I don't much care about them either. And if Chinese manufacturing creeping into the higher line products is the only way B&O can make any money, then perhaps this is simply a sign that the company's "golden years" have come and gone. Not everything has to last forever. Nakamichi is an embarrassing shell of its former self, I don't want to see B&O end up this way. So long as they clearly differentiate the products designed for mass market versus the premium lines, then perhaps that's an acceptable compromise.
"Have the company's "golden years" come and gone?" - almost certainly!
"it's ok to move everything to China and I'll still love them argument reeks of fanboism". - I'm definitely no fanbois, I do "get it", I just don't accept your ""Made in Denmark is a badge of prestige no matter what it costs" viewpoint.
I happen to think that the company is really struggling and there is no future in asking ever spiralling prices for product made in Denmark that no one is buying. They need new, realistically priced products that appeal to new customers or else they are history.
Why all this writing/these long posts about China?
In the first post I read::
"The last part of the production is moved to the Czech Republic where B&O already are producing stereos, loudspeakers and radios."
Obvisiously some BeoWorlders have a third eye and can foresee the future of Bang & Olufsen.
Puncher: "Have the company's "golden years" come and gone?" - almost certainly! "it's ok to move everything to China and I'll still love them argument reeks of fanboism". - I'm definitely no fanbois, I do "get it", I just don't accept your ""Made in Denmark is a badge of prestige no matter what it costs" viewpoint. I happen to think that the company is really struggling and there is no future in asking ever spiralling prices for product made in Denmark that no one is buying. They need new, realistically priced products that appeal to new customers or else they are history.
I agree. I'd also point out that apart from winning a Red Spot design award, that in relative terms to the rest of the market, a V1 is stunning value.
Yes, it's priced in the same ball park as the top of the line Panasonics and Sony's - and larger screened sets at that.
But where is the fully active speaker array in a Panasonic or Sony, that can do double duty as a centre channel in an AV role?
Where is the state of the art surround sound processor in the Panasonic or Sony?
When you price up an separate active centre channel speaker, TV, surround sound processor, preamplifier and DAC, which is what the V1 is, the price actually looks astoundingly cheap - which is something some members seem to forget when they diss the V1.
And if B&O stopped making TV sets, and you want an AV solution, where do you go then for your surround sound processor, your matching active centre channel speaker, and your preamp/DAC etc???
For these reasons, B&O TV's are both unique in the market place, and also vital for B&O to continue with them, as they undoubtedly form the centrepiece of an AV system, not at all easily replaced if you're looking to avoid separate boxes and racks to hold the extra kit otherwise needed.
Kind regards
John...
I think moving production out of Denmark is incredibly sad but I think we all want to see B&O recover from its recent financial and business difficulties. I honestly don't think they have any choice especially after 50 staff were made redundant earlier this year from Struer.
As for moving to production another country I am not entirely convinced that quality will be retained. I read on the Naim forum that they went through a short spell of trying to manufacture some of their products in New Zealand and not only were the assembly workers and managers not following the exact construction methods and procedures they were trying to short-cut the techniques. The final items were well below par and had to be scrapped when engineers did an inspection from Salisbury. Naim from what can see are obsessive - finishes need to be exactly so, wires need to run an exact path to minimise electrical noise and the soldering and mounting technqiues are very specific and knowing what happened to Quad and others that moved to China i would be sceptical.
Apple know their phones last only so long perhaps 2-4 years but we have people here on this forum who use equipement from the 1970s and 1980s so producing a 'disposable item' in a Chinese sweat-shop is different from producing a supreme quality product expected to last decades.
I think the other thing that needs to be bourne in mind is that Danish build quality itself has been slipping. I sent my Bs5 back for repairs twice due to dust under the glass and it had to be replaced. Many have complained about the board on their Bs5s and Bs5encores failing so they need to address these issues in parallel. Once a luxury brand loses its reliability credentials it can take decades to repair that damage - look at Jaguar for instance.
Finally, we had an engineer here on this forum who said that the reason B&O stuff lasted so long before it needed servicing was due to expensive and high quality Vishay components. I hope B&O are not going down the route of sourcing cheap short-life components from the far East just to save a bit on each unit sold. Naim who are a similar small firm are very careful about their component sourcing and test each discrete component on their test benches before mounting them on the boards. It's this level of detail that needs to be preserved.
Rant over, time for a mindless chant:
Long live B&O...! Long live B&O...! Long live B&O...!
.
Present: BL90, Core, BL6000, CD7000, Beogram 7000, Essence Remote.
Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, BC2, BS5, BV5, BV4-50, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4, Moment.
seethroughyou:Apple know their phones last only so long perhaps 2-4 years
To be fair, this has nothing to do with the standard of assembly, it is the selection and design of components that fixes the product life.
I agree with Playdrv4me , if bno stop actually making the stuff in Denmark ,what's the point of paying to dollar for the gear ? Bad idea imo. Where's the magic gone ?
Look at Apple , boasting about making the new mac pro in the USA. Made in China still has that tacky cheap ring to it.
Flappo: I agree with Playdrv4me , if bno stop actually making the stuff in Denmark ,what's the point of paying to dollar for the gear ? Bad idea imo. Where's the magic gone ?
Most of the stuff is made in Czech any how!