ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Been away for a few days, just heard B&O Leeds has closed
If this is correct and I think it is, Leeds is a fantastic shopping experience and still lots of money floating around in the City. Times really are tough!!!! It wasn't in the greatest place within the City but still that is a shock!
Jonnie
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
I agree about the location. Tucked away off the main drags and not in the most salubrious part of the city either.
Not 100% convinced the new Trinity shopping centre has added anything to the Leeds shopping experience in general. Seems to have sucked most of the big names from the surrounding streets, leaving empty units behind.
The Roundhay store closed a few years back so in some ways this isn't entirely without precedent.
j0hnbarker: I agree about the location. Tucked away off the main drags and not in the most salubrious part of the city either. Not 100% convinced the new Trinity shopping centre has added anything to the Leeds shopping experience in general. Seems to have sucked most of the big names from the surrounding streets, leaving empty units behind. The Roundhay store closed a few years back so in some ways this isn't entirely without precedent.
Agree with all that John.
Although the Roundhay store wasn't city centre, it was always worth the drive. Great area, nice bars, restaurants and a homely friendly feel to the store!!
The two stores left in the Helsinki area aren't exactly doing great financially.
I just hope they hang in there! One of them is bleeding big money each year...
As a business owner myself, I really feel bad for businesses going bust or poorly
Just amazing that these guys have the guts and stamina to continue through this "storm".
Too long to list....
MartinW:Hi all, it is true that Leeds is no longer open. Richard and Alex who worked at the Leeds store now work for our company which operates Bang & Olufsen of Newcastle & Yarm and we have taken over the Harrogate store from its former owners. Sorry for those people who were happy with the Leeds branch but we made a decision that we wanted to have a new team in one store and try and focus all our resources on giving a fantastic customer experience to every single customer we deal with, which we felt we would be able to do in a better and more consistent way from one location that covered Harrogate, Leeds and the surrounding area. Really hope we can still give great service to our Leeds and Harrogate fans and indeed work hard to create more of you and we promise full commitment to be the best dealer anyone could ever ask for! Please show your support and come and meet the new team in Harrogate - expect a party soon! Thanks, Martin
Was in Harrogate overnight a couple of weeks ago, I completely forgot to visit the store!! I'll make sure to drop in next time I'm there!
Ban boring signatures!
The letter we received saying that Wills Brothers were going into receivership made me very, very sad indeed. They were ingrained into the fabric of Bang & Olufsen to my mind, and it's sad when this happens.
I always found the Leeds store a pleasure to deal with, and wish the guys there all the best in their new roles. Harrogate is a lovely store in a lovely town, so that always helps as something to build on.
So many stores are closing, and being kind of 'on the inside' I generally know which stores in the UK are looking to close before anyone else - and there are a few more to come... all good people and genuinely good dealers who just cannot make it pay, or refuse to make the future investment B&O are demanding.
The dealers who remain, and remain positive, have my respect. They've had nothing but hard knocks and let-downs for years now.
Lee
wow, that is a surprise.
After the restructures and changes a few years back, I thought they were quite stable. Affluent area too, so must be a concern for B&O nationally
With th BeoPlay stuff I am sure new customers must be arriving in stores that were simplky not an option 5 - 8 years ago, so in a way its a shame that this happens just as the range starts to get a bit more mainstream ( as well as retaining high end gems like the TV's and big beolabs)
UK retail is in a mess though - and much of the blame lies at the door of the landlords, imo - commercial rents in the UK have been a sick joke for decades, and landlords need to get a grip on reality.
Best wishes to the guys there though - shared a few beers over the years.
9 LEE: many stores are closing, and being kind of 'on the inside' I generally know which stores in the UK are looking to close before anyone else - and there are a few more to come... all good people and genuinely good dealers who just cannot make it pay, or refuse to make the future investment B&O are demanding.
many stores are closing, and being kind of 'on the inside' I generally know which stores in the UK are looking to close before anyone else - and there are a few more to come... all good people and genuinely good dealers who just cannot make it pay, or refuse to make the future investment B&O are demanding.
B&O are making some idiotic demands on those of us who remain, the whole management structure seems not to understand how the successful stores operate.
The general rule of thumb for running a successful B&O store is to sell as many of their good products as possible (and to be fair there are some great, great B&O products which we and our customers adore), and ignore the rest unless someone particularly asks for it!
With regards to business strategy, the rule of survival/flourishing is to take B&Os advice (mainly from people who have never run or invested in their own business) and to do the complete OPPOSITE!!
Being a landlord myself I can assure you it's the infamous business rates that are the real problem NOT the greedy Landlord mantra that the media love to spout on about.
Non Domestic rates are basically a property tax on commercial property with no grounding in reality , they claim it's based on the rental value - which is drivel - they have this magical multiplication system involving the RV multiplier ( it goes up and don like a yo yo ).. Both my shops have gotten smaller in an attempt to reduce The RV to zero effect - they just move the goalposts , the rents gone down in real terms over 10 years but the rates have doubled...
You can negotiate terms with a landlord ( especially in this climate ) - try doing that with the VOA.
They don't care as thanks to Lord Mandy and Gordon Brown the 50% empty shop exemption no longer applies so they get the rates if the shops let or not.
It's basically extortion at a level that would embarrass the mafia
Mary queen of Shops has certainly been a massive help - NOT
This will help explain the sheer absurdity of business rates;
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/rochdaless-town-centre-business-rates-4314477
Rochdale ;
Some town centre business rates are valued up to five times more per square metre than swanky department stores in London's Knightsbridge.
Shops along Yorkshire Street and inside the the town's shopping centres are valued several times more than big retailers such as Harrods or Harvey Nichols in their business rate bill.
i rest my case..
.
Present: BL90, Core, BL6000, CD7000, Beogram 7000, Essence Remote.
Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, BC2, BS5, BV5, BV4-50, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4, Moment.
How many stores does that make in the last 12 months or so?
Before I relocated a few years ago I looked at opening a franchise in the south east. The conditions and investment imposed then made me think twice (thankfully). I would have thought B&O would be relaxing the restrictions on the people who sell their products to give them a better chance of surviving, like stocking other brands and catering for people who still want the service and maybe some B&O but who can't justify using B&O for everything in the house.
maybe the plan from Streur is to just focus and selling Play stuff themselves via the web, and then dealing with people with six figure budgets through a very reduced dealer network and neglect the middle market.
rednik:How many stores does that make in the last 12 months or so? Before I relocated a few years ago I looked at opening a franchise in the south east. The conditions and investment imposed then made me think twice (thankfully). I would have thought B&O would be relaxing the restrictions on the people who sell their products to give them a better chance of surviving, like stocking other brands and catering for people who still want the service and maybe some B&O but who can't justify using B&O for everything in the house. maybe the plan from Streur is to just focus and selling Play stuff themselves via the web, and then dealing with people with six figure budgets through a very reduced dealer network and neglect the middle market.
Duplicate
TRIPLICATE
StUrrock: rednik: How many stores does that make in the last 12 months or so? Before I relocated a few years ago I looked at opening a franchise in the south east. The conditions and investment imposed then made me think twice (thankfully). I would have thought B&O would be relaxing the restrictions on the people who sell their products to give them a better chance of surviving, like stocking other brands and catering for people who still want the service and maybe some B&O but who can't justify using B&O for everything in the house. maybe the plan from Streur is to just focus and selling Play stuff themselves via the web, and then dealing with people with six figure budgets through a very reduced dealer network and neglect the middle market. Got it in one!
rednik: How many stores does that make in the last 12 months or so? Before I relocated a few years ago I looked at opening a franchise in the south east. The conditions and investment imposed then made me think twice (thankfully). I would have thought B&O would be relaxing the restrictions on the people who sell their products to give them a better chance of surviving, like stocking other brands and catering for people who still want the service and maybe some B&O but who can't justify using B&O for everything in the house. maybe the plan from Streur is to just focus and selling Play stuff themselves via the web, and then dealing with people with six figure budgets through a very reduced dealer network and neglect the middle market.
Got it in one!
And yet the "middle market" you describe is the historical heart of B&O's customer base!! Changing the customer demographic will be either seen in the future as inspired or as what killed the company.
Puncher: And yet the "middle market" you describe is the historical heart of B&O's customer base!! Changing the customer demographic will be either seen in the future as inspired or as what killed the company.
But what percentage of sales does that customer base make up?
i would hazard a guess (and it is a guess) that those"middle" customers who may buy a 7-40 andsomespeakers, take up a lot of time for not a huge return. They require home visits, and a "local dealer" to visit ona regular basis and look at what's new. They may make a significant purchase on very fifth dealer interaction.
people who buy play will still buy it on line.
the big ticket customers don't really need a local dealer. They don't care when a new product is released unless they are in the market for a whole house refurb. They only visit the dealer when they intend to spend huge amounts of money.
i don't like it, but I can sort of see where they are going.
StUrrock: 9 LEE: many stores are closing, and being kind of 'on the inside' I generally know which stores in the UK are looking to close before anyone else - and there are a few more to come... all good people and genuinely good dealers who just cannot make it pay, or refuse to make the future investment B&O are demanding. B&O are making some idiotic demands on those of us who remain, the whole management structure seems not to understand how the successful stores operate. The general rule of thumb for running a successful B&O store is to sell as many of their good products as possible (and to be fair there are some great, great B&O products which we and our customers adore), and ignore the rest unless someone particularly asks for it! With regards to business strategy, the rule of survival/flourishing is to take B&Os advice (mainly from people who have never run or invested in their own business) and to do the complete OPPOSITE!!
Nothing beats first hand experience.
I get to deal with these "textbook experts" too, man does it often look cute on paper... In the real life, not so cute.
rednik: Puncher: And yet the "middle market" you describe is the historical heart of B&O's customer base!! Changing the customer demographic will be either seen in the future as inspired or as what killed the company. But what percentage of sales does that customer base make up? i would hazard a guess (and it is a guess) that those"middle" customers who may buy a 7-40 andsomespeakers, take up a lot of time for not a huge return. They require home visits, and a "local dealer" to visit ona regular basis and look at what's new. They may make a significant purchase on very fifth dealer interaction. people who buy play will still buy it on line. the big ticket customers don't really need a local dealer. They don't care when a new product is released unless they are in the market for a whole house refurb. They only visit the dealer when they intend to spend huge amounts of money. i don't like it, but I can sort of see where they are going.
Except there are much much fewer of the " money" types and as you mention they dont "follow" the brand, they can change allegiance in a heartbeat!
Puncher: Except there are much much fewer of the " money" types and as you mention they dont "follow" the brand, they can change allegiance in a heartbeat!
And most are declining "new money" types (who were hit hard after 2008). The older generation don't want BV1's or BV11's, they don't fit in to their traditional home. The keep their old, reliable and relatively small Avant or similar TV. They aren't after 4K, OLED, 55" screens etc.
As I've mentioned before, I know a few old-school B&O customers and none of them crave any of the new stuff. The people coming up behind do not understand or follow the principles if spending £10K on a TV and making it last, as the fear it will become obsolete in a couple of years.
A lot of hardcore fans on here may disagree, but it's only going to get much harder to shift B&O products going forward.
Flappo: This will help explain the sheer absurdity of business rates; http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/rochdaless-town-centre-business-rates-4314477 Rochdale ; Some town centre business rates are valued up to five times more per square metre than swanky department stores in London's Knightsbridge. Shops along Yorkshire Street and inside the the town's shopping centres are valued several times more than big retailers such as Harrods or Harvey Nichols in their business rate bill. i rest my case..
Flappo - I take your point, but of course the relative values are skewed. A 10m x 5m unit in Rochdale may, in theory, be more per square metre pro-rata, but comparing something like that to a multi floored, thousands of square metred department store isn't really fair.
Its economies of scale - either the small unit would cost almost nothing, or the big store would not be viable if the same £ per sq metre was charged,
Also - in my retail experience ( over 20 years, including multi-site and city centre locations), the individual beneficiaries of each retail £1 taken -excluding stock costs - have typically been ( in this order):
The taxman: VAT
The Landlord: Rent
The Council: Rates.
The Staff: Wages.
The taxman. Corporate tax
The utilities - ie all Running costs not inc rent.
The taxman. Personal tax and N.I
If you group the wages together, they would be higher as a single cost - but then so would the various taxes- and local rates are in effect another tax.
bayerische:Nothing beats first hand experience. I get to deal with these "textbook experts" too, man does it often look cute on paper... In the real life, not so cute.
I think it's pretty obvious that the internet based businesses have a ridiculously unfair advantage over physical stores ( don't even pay any business taxes so so much for the importance of them to our economy ) - probably explains what bno are up to ( shame they can't let the dealers know what's their MO )
The council use shops as a cash cow - they even charge businesses for bin bags then charge them for collection then fine them if they don't follow 'procedure' - nice to know they're helping small businesses isn't it ? Parking fees and planning laws don't help.
I think to open a physical shop nowadays you have to be either naive or utterly mad.
( Don't tell my tenants I said that LOL )
Flappo: I think it's pretty obvious that the internet based businesses have a ridiculously unfair advantage over physical stores
I think it's pretty obvious that the internet based businesses have a ridiculously unfair advantage over physical stores
Yes, but you also forget that it's ridiculously hard to get yourself noticed online, without spending huge amounts on marketing and PR. People don't just find your brand new online store. Ironically the most successful online brands also have a retail presence.
There's no rule saying retailers can't be online, too. They aren't mutually exclusive. You can do both - and benefit from both. Hardly 'unfair'. I know online retailers who have tested popup stores and had more success from their bricks-and-mortar popup store than spending hours on near-constant PR and Google AdWords, to get themselves noticed online.
We spent over £4K on Google AdWords in March - more than we spend on rent and rates.
I'm referring to the government and the council's attitude towards physical shops , not competition between business which is perfectly normal and acceptable .
The whole concept of the accepted notions of a s high street vs the internet is simply not on a level playing field , thanks to their greed and intrusion and incompetence.
If you choose not to pay your google subscription this month , fine i'm sure you can sort that out in the mix , choose not to pay your rates and you'll end up in court.
Flappo: If you choose not to pay your google subscription this month , fine i'm sure you can sort that out in the mix , choose not to pay your rates and you'll end up in court.
Yes, but the point is that any retailer can go online and compete. It's nonsense saying that internet retailers have an advantage as there's no reason why bricks-and-mortar retailers can trade online. There are loads of examples where this works - Sports Direct is a good example. Often the prices online are cheaper than those from a store.
No-one is forcing anyone to solely own a bricks-and-mortar store. You can trade online and do both, or close your retail store, buy a storage unit and only trade online. I know a Danish store which has done this. The closed their traditional store, put their stock in to a cheap rented unit and now solely trade online. The irony is though, they are just about to re-open a store as they are finding it much harder solely trading online compared to running their bricks-and-mortar store.
Seems you have all the answers , maybe you should become an advisor to our wonderful government ?
From the look of it they need all the help they can get.