ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Would it be safe to assume that any receiver should be able to bring-in a few strong FM stations even without an antenna?
I am specifically referring to a Beomaster 1000 which has a FM socket that I do not have an appropriate FM antenna plug for.
Phono 2 and Tape work just fine, but the FM section is non-functional. Phono 1 is set up for a ceramic cartridge so my MMC20CL is useless.
Perhaps I am missing something.
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
Piaf:Perhaps I am missing something.
Here from Beocentral: Two record players could be connected, initially both of the type with ceramic pickups, though an optional preamplifier could be fitted inside the Beomaster so that a B&O magnetic pickup could be connected.
If the preamp is installed you should be ready to go. Do you have the stereo decoder installed ? Beomaster 1000 was my first ever B&O buy, 1969. Black Keys. At the moment I am trying to buy BM 1000, BG 1000 and Bvox 1000, my first ever B&O set up. Trying in DK, God knows how and when I will get it to Mexico Querido y Lindo
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
And pics or it didnt happen
Hi Søren,
From my read from the Owner’s manual Phono 1 is intended for a “crystal” or ceramic cartridge and one that includes an internal pre-amplifier. Phono 2 has a pre-amplifier within the Beomaster 1000, which is why my Beogram 4002 works with the amp.
Yes, I have a stereo decoder installed.
Søren my good friend, I have a few more things to sort out, but I purchased this 1000 cheaply and locally to replace my failing Beomaster 2400….. which didn’t fail.
If you want a Beomaster 1000 I would be willing to sell this one to you, BUT not until I can determine its real condition. Friendship means a great deal more to me than any sale.
That said, I believe you would be best advised to continue your search for a really good Beomaster 1000. Mine looks nice, but the FM doesn’t work, and the white keys are yellowed.
I will probably buy from Martin, and my 1000 has to have black keys, my BG 1000 has to be black, and it all has to be teak, that was my first ever setup.
I have seen several 1000 with "white" keys all of them yellow.
But thank you for the offer Jeff appreciated
Buying from Martin is ALWAYS a good idea. You look up integrity in your dictionary and they will have a photo of Martin Olsen as an example.
While my Beomaster 1000 is in teak, in all candor I do not, I repeat NOT believe that it is good enough for you. What I have is an un-abused 1000, as opposed to an especially well cared for receiver.
Suffice to say it seemed like a good idea at the time, a really CHEAP local receiver with my Beomaster 2400 about to fail.
However as you know the reports of the 2400 failure were premature, as it managed to recompose itself and continues to perform with genuine distinction.
And let’s face it; you get what you pay for.
I have cleaned, polished, and restored this Beomaster to its pinnacle of perfection, which ain’t bad.
I only listened to it for about one minute, but it sounded pretty good….. although a bit bassy. I turned up the treble and was quite pleased.
So what is wrong? Truthfully, I am trying to be financially practical and even this modest purchase doesn’t fit a “reasonable” definition. They call this “buyer’s remorse.”
Yes - an antenna
Just stick a piece of wire into the socket and you'll know whether the tuner works or not. Then you can consider further actions.
http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/wikis/aerial/aerial-faq.aspx
--mika
Oh that was cruel….. funny, but cruel.
Yes I know I am “missing” an antenna. I will do as you suggest, but my thinking was even without an antenna, a receiver should pickup something which would let me know if the FM section worked.
I mean my BeoCenter 9000 literally picked up Classic KING-FM in Seattle, Washington without any antenna and that is in another country. (And crystal clear reception with an antenna.)
Well I’ve got the time today and this certainly won’t take long so I’ll do it.
P.S. The written word is not the same as hearing the vocal intonation of a person’s voice, not to mention different international cultural differences so just in case my saying you were cruel might be misconstrued to mean I was upset…. no, not in the least. I thought it was a clever remark, but it was CRUEL!
Søren Mexico: And pics or it didnt happen
The picture is not very good, but it is only a small part of a much larger picture that the server would never accept. But you want a picture, here it is. Oh, and this was taken before I really detailed this 1000.
To fire you up even more, here is a how to
You will probably need a couple of bananaplugs for teh antenna.The Beomaster 1000 never had the coax socket.
Oh, and the keys on that BM1000 are not particularly yellow. In fact they are quite nice.
Martin
Hello Martin,
OK we can call them ivory as opposed to yellow.
The photo was taken after the first cursory cleaning which made a minor improvement. The ME did absolutely nothing, I am sorry to say.
Yesterday I used my “secret” favourite technique; I used high end auto polish and then wax on the keys and FM dial, which made another minor improvement. The polish and wax tricks the eye into seeing a brighter (whiter) reflection…. And in this case, makes the keys look almost new.
While I am delighted to have received this compliment from you vis-à-vis the colour, at the same time I am horrified at the prospect that there are worse keys out there.
Just a side comment, I was pleasantly surprised at the solidness of the key functions. All the keys are very tight and precise. B&O must have used a very high quality switch to have them so solid after this many years!
OK Martin and Søren,
We’ve got a whole new ballgame going on now.
The FM section works after all and it isn’t particularly dependant on the antenna. The problem is clearly the switches, ALL of them. Yes as I said they have a good tactile feel but none of the switches are working well and definitely need cleaning.
At first, with my jury-rigged antenna in place the FM barely delivered sound, but I found the more I moved the station selector knob the better the sound volume/quality got.
The same was true going from FM to Phono 2, and then Tape….. back to FM and the volume improved a bit more.
Finally I got FULL sound from the FM by holding the piano key down. However at no time (yet) as the signal strength been sufficient to light the STEREO lamp.
Well I need not be a technical wiz like you guys to know that the problem is the result of lack of use and less than perfect storage has the switches corroded.
I also noted that occasionally the volume drops dramatically and the bass disappears, BUT turn the knobs a few times and the full sound returns. There is also some static, but mostly with the FM button.
So is this something I can handle? I direct this question more to Martin as Martin has a more objective view of my capabilities/limitations, while Søren gives me more credit than I am due.
If I can get this Beomaster to perform better I will make the effort to upgrade my current motley collection: Beogram 1602 and Fisher XP-66 speakers.
Take a peek inside and you will know that accessing the switches is not particularly easy, let alonedismounting and cleaning them.You can give them a shot of contact cleaner to the upper side where the solder tags are, it will thenseep down and do something inside the switches but it obviously won't remove the dirt, merely shiftit around a bit but this may be the only way forward if you must use contact cleaner.
However, first, I think, I would simply play around a bit with the buttons, excersize them a bit when in the down position,switch sources etc. to work and wear through the oxidation.In most cases of Beomaster 1000s found today, they stood unused for years and, as you say, this lack of usecan cause symptoms exactly like the ones you are experiencing.
Now is not the time for me to tell you that the large filter capacitor can explode. Don't ask me how I knowor how far I wasn't from the Beomaster...I like to replace it with a 2200uF 50V component in all Beomasters of this type. The rectifier is properly dimensionedand will have no problem at all with the somewhat higher rush-in current plus it will give a slightly better filtering (and agreatly reduced risk of explosion).The two output series capacitors can also be replaced with capacitors of the same type. The originals will have passedtheir sell-by-date by now and it will give a much needed kick to the damping factor which in turn means a muchbetter control over the low frequency (bass) range. You will like this, I know.
My but haven’t I jumped from the frying pan into the fire?
From a Beomaster 4400 that could catch fire at any moment to a Beomaster 1000 that is likely to explode. Gud i Himlen!
Martin I am literally over my quota for this sort of thing having just had a fire in my McIntosh C-27 pre-amp. True it was a very small fire, but it made a HUGE amount of stink.... and took weeks to resolve. Interestingly enough, right here at BeoWorld.
It is past midnight here in Victoria, so my usual broad sense of humour is fading fast. In plain English if this BM 1000 is dangerous let me know and I will put it aside until I find a proper use/home for it.
I have three parrots age 15, 16, and 17 that mean the world to me and they are within 2 meters of the Beomaster 1000. An explosion, any explosion that close could be lethal to my birds and I have no need to be taking that sort of chance.
P.S. In case you missed it I very much meant what I said to Sören, ”If you look up integrity in the dictionary you will find a photo of Martin Olsen as an illustration.” This was a heartfelt compliment and one you have certainly earned.
No worries, mate. It's not more dangerous than any other electronic device.The filter capacitor "thing" has happened to me only once - but it's something you never forget, also the smell, andsince it's a fairly cheap and easy thing to do, I just replace the cap in every Beomaster of this type on the bench.
Produced through many years, seeing countless minor and major updates, in fact, the Beomaster 1000 is oneof the most fault-proof Beomasters of all times.So far (~50 years!) electronic repairs have been few and far between.Even the old grey radial electrolytic caps that are causing so much trouble in later units are often stillfound in good condition in Beomaster 1000s.A wonderful construction and a fine classic design. Worth collecting, restoring and using.
Dillen:A wonderful construction and a fine classic design. Worth collecting, restoring and using.
I wasn't that much into the design at first, but I really like mine. All I ever did to it was replacing the dial bulbs. The only reason that it's not in constant use is that I can't do without FM presets. Also, for a B&O receiver, it's very easy to place - compact and useable even when only visible from the front!
Wouldn't this earlier, white key version be a bit more prone to tuner faults as it uses mostly germanium semiconductors?
tournedos: Wouldn't this earlier, white key version be a bit more prone to tuner faults as it uses mostly germanium semiconductors?
I know what you mean and you could be right but in my experience BM1000 tuner faults are generally incredibly rareand I've not noticed any more faults to the germanium based versions than the silicon.Maybe the next 50 years will tell.
The "white" version keys were never white but more like ivory, or sometimes even light grey.
This is about as white as they can be found:http://www.auktionsprisbanken.se/imagebank/larges/1001/%7BDF1CEC96-9C64-4A5F-B85B-432486F30788%7D.jpg
And after years in a smokers home many look like this:http://www.radiosamling.dk/Billeder/BCL_Radios/bcl-142_stor.JPG
Dillen: No worries, mate. It's not more dangerous than any other electronic device.The filter capacitor "thing" has happened to me only once - but it's something you never forget, also the smell, andsince it's a fairly cheap and easy thing to do, I just replace the cap in every Beomaster of this type on the bench. Produced through many years, seeing countless minor and major updates, in fact, the Beomaster 1000 is oneof the most fault-proof Beomasters of all times.So far (~50 years!) electronic repairs have been few and far between.Even the old grey radial electrolytic caps that are causing so much trouble in later units are often stillfound in good condition in Beomaster 1000s.A wonderful construction and a fine classic design. Worth collecting, restoring and using. Martin
Was it something I said that brought out the Australian in you? I refer, of course, to the “no worries mate” commentary.
Since the Beomaster 1000 is no more likely to explode than any other vintage electronics product or catch fire, etc. etc. etc. it can keep its happy new home here in beautiful Victoria. My worries have been banished!
After all; it is not like this has never happened before because my original Beogram 8000 burnt and smoked for over a half hour and I am not likely to ever, but ever forget the totally unexpected recent fire within the McIntosh on/off switch.
The BM 1000 certainly wasn’t especially impressive when it first arrived having very modest volume and no FM reception whatsoever, but with just a bit of use, the BM 1000 has increased the volume about 60% and the FM reception just gets better and better so I’ll just continue “exercising” this receiver.
This present situation comes under the heading of, “The best laid plans of mice and men,” as I was absolutely convinced that my Beomaster 2400 had served notice of impending failure when I by chance spotted the BM 1000 for sale at $9.95. I actually paid $100, but at that price I figured how could I go wrong? Plus the BM 1000 was local, right next door in Vancouver….. so shipping was inexpensive and there was no duty.
As fate would have it my Beomaster 2400 “recovered” and is not presently in need of replacement. I will say this when the BM 2400 does fail it will owe me NOTHING as this amp has been an amazing workhorse.
I really appreciated your last paragraph about the dependability and collectability of the BM 1000. If the capacitor is easy to replace (that’s would mean by me) I suspect I can handle changing a cap or two. May I assume you have such a kit for the BM 1000?
Piaf: The BM 1000 certainly wasn’t especially impressive when it first arrived having very modest volume and no FM reception whatsoever, but with just a bit of use, the BM 1000 has increased the volume about 60% and the FM reception just gets better and better so I’ll just continue “exercising” this receiver.
Glad to hear that Jeff - you've had your share of problems already...
That previous post of mine was supposed to be fun, with nothing hidden between the lines (I'm Finnish, we are way too straightforward for that). If I make fun of other people's problems, I take extra care to include hopefully helpful advice as well. That antenna FAQ should be worth a read, I spent a lot of time writing it
The difference between the regular use household and a smoker’s household is staggering, even horrifying!
Jeff Dillen: The "white" version keys were never white but more like ivory, or sometimes even light grey. This is about as white as they can be found:http://www.auktionsprisbanken.se/imagebank/larges/1001/%7BDF1CEC96-9C64-4A5F-B85B-432486F30788%7D.jpg And after years in a smokers home many look like this:http://www.radiosamling.dk/Billeder/BCL_Radios/bcl-142_stor.JPG Martin
Dillen: The "white" version keys were never white but more like ivory, or sometimes even light grey. This is about as white as they can be found:http://www.auktionsprisbanken.se/imagebank/larges/1001/%7BDF1CEC96-9C64-4A5F-B85B-432486F30788%7D.jpg And after years in a smokers home many look like this:http://www.radiosamling.dk/Billeder/BCL_Radios/bcl-142_stor.JPG Martin
tournedos: Piaf: Glad to hear that Jeff - you've had your share of problems already...
Piaf:
I do not have the material, expertise, or for that matter an interest to compete with the fascinating saga of Sören’s Beomaster 4400 however I do have an update to offer and one I do not know what to make of myself.
Since the arrival of this Beomaster 1000 I have been able to improve on its performance by merely “exercising” the various buttons and switches.
Each day the performance improved: the volume got stronger, and the FM pulled in more stations. By Saturday I had a really nice sounding receiver and was quite pleased with it.
Now an unexpected setback. On Sunday the FM reception waivered and the sound quality was sufficiently bad that I switched to phono and was genuinely shocked at the truly terrible sound quality. It was so bad that I took the MMC4000 cartridge out to inspect it and checked the RCA to DIN connections, neither was at fault.
Further inspection found that when the FM piano key is depressed the right channel gets MUCH stronger but falls off when the button is released and the use of the MONO key greatly improves the sound quality.
Another questionable issue is when the BM 1000 is turned off there is a considerable crackling, a rather loud crackling heard in the speakers which occurs as the amplifier drops in power.
Frankly I am at a loss for what is going on. If it was just the FM, I could live with that but the phono also giving trouble…. well it wasn’t expected as I thought that the daily “exercise” would just continue to improve things to the point where I would have a truly functional amplifier.
Any ideas on what is going on?
I am running out of hopeful options.
I purchased a contact cleaner and I have a high pressure electronics aerosol spray. First I used the cleaner then I really shot air into the switches in order to remove any debris I could.
The above procedure was successful in that the FM switch no longer favored the right speaker when pressed fully down and in short, all the switches appeared to be functioning rather well.
As such the problems disappeared, right? No such luck.
The FM section is still weak and produces a rather poor sound.
The volume is there, I will give it that, but there is the end of my positives.
The phono that used to sound quite good now is crummy. I can think of no reason why my Beogram 1602 should deteriorate after so little use. However, it is not a stellar turntable, so I brought in my CDX and it plays by far the best, but the sound is still not what it should be.
I haven’t used my Fisher XP-66 speakers in five years as I didn’t like their performance. So it could be a speaker problem, but like the 1602, I don’t see why they played well before and now are found wanting.
My best guess is the problem is the Beomaster 1000. It sat likely unused for years and all of a sudden is pressed into service.
I have been working on the switches and I have no doubt that has helped, however as I have progressed with the electrical contacts it appears to me that aged components in the BM 1000 are serving notice.
I thought about bringing in my much unloved S120.2 speakers, but they are too demanding for an amp of this capacity. The S45-2 speakers would be a better choice, but I don’t really want to do this, but I suspect I will as that would probably settle this matter once and for all.
If my BM 1000 can’t power S45.2 speakers well, then it is at fault.
In the end you get what you pay for, I paid $100 for this BM 1000 and while I had hoped it might well be a nice addition to my B&O family, it now would appear that I was asking too much.
The verdict is in, it’s the amplifier.
However on a positive note, I did learn that my long neglected Beogram 1602 does a pretty decent job in playing records, certainly better than I ever gave it credit for and I like this enlightenment.
I also learned that my long unused Fisher XP-66 speakers also were unfairly underrated. These oldies but goodies from the mid sixties have connector problems which I was previously unaware of. Now I know if CAREFULLY connect and then securely tighten the connections, all will function satisfactorily.
I brought my S45.2 speakers downstairs and tried them with the BM 1000 and they sounded terrible with anything more than the lowest volume level….. and the higher the volume, the worse the sound quality.
Returned to their regular connection with the BM 2400 and they sounded as they usually do: FANTASTIC!
The handwriting was on the wall because it wasn’t reasonable to accept that the Beogram 1602 could initially play records well, but then fail to be able to do so. Ditto the Fisher speakers, they initially sounded quite good, but not after repeated usage with the Beomaster 1000.
However to be absolutely sure I needed to remove the variables so I exchanged the 1602 and Fishers for the CDX and S45.2’s.
Hey, I took a chance on a bargain and it didn’t pan out, but I gained a bit of respect for the 1602 and the XP-66’s so it wasn’t a total waste of effort because all knowledge is good.