n.music and n.radio

I have a BeoCenter 2 which has n.music and n.radio.  Although I have had the BC2 for some years, I have no idea what n.music and n.radio are.  

Can someone enlighten me?

djs:

I have a BeoCenter 2 which has n.music and n.radio.  Although I have had the BC2 for some years, I have no idea what n.music and n.radio are.  

Can someone enlighten me?

Net-Music and Net-Radio were B&O's early answer to internet digital music.

This was implemented via a black box attached to the master link and to a personal computer that stored the music (an MP3 library) and gave access to the internet for pulling music being streamed by internet radio stations.

The solution went through various iterations of black boxes.

The most recent has been the "BeoPort".

B&O provided windows software to "talk" to the black box - a sample of the interface can be experienced by downloading their "BeoPlayer" software.

For Apple personal computer users B&O arranged for "BMLink" to be written.

And more recently PhilLondon of Beoworld produce LinkPlayer.

Hope this helps as an introduction ..........

Thanks Elephant.  I was hoping it may be to do with internet based music.  

Although I have a Playmaker, I find it too unreliable in terms of drop-outs.   I am looking to find a solution to having music stored digitally and played through the BC2.  My preference would be to have a NAS drive attached to the BC2.

Is this possible?  If so, any advice as how to best achieve such a solution would be welcomed.

djs 

djs:

Thanks Elephant.  I was hoping it may be to do with internet based music.  

Although I have a Playmaker, I find it too unreliable in terms of drop-outs.   I am looking to find a solution to having music stored digitally and played through the BC2.  My preference would be to have a NAS drive attached to the BC2.

Is this possible?  If so, any advice as how to best achieve such a solution would be welcomed.

djs 

well the BeoPort does have the advantage of needing wires -- more than one in fact!  The diagrams posted below show the BeoPort and its connectivity.  And as you will infer, the "NAS" is in fact your personal computer and its disk drive(s).  I use a MacMini with two external Maxtor drives. 

The hesitation I have in providing you advice, is that we are talking about an old solution - great at the time, and with PhilLondon's beta programming something that showed potential.  However Philippe abandoned that work in 2012 and so we have what is an aged system that is not user friendly when used  with large music libraries (basically no visual feedback).  I use an iPad running the Apple "Remote" App to control the iTunes library on the MacMini

This is where the DLNA protocols and devices are better in being able to explore what is on a NAS.

It is a pity you are getting drop-outs - however I had a similar problem with my equally old solution, the BeoLink Wireless 1.  I simply preserved change the position of devices and aerials and I found the sweet spot where there was solid uninterrupted transmissions.

So if you still have the PlayMaker, and you have a large library of MP3s, then I would keep trying.

The BeoPort and how it connects to your Beocentre/Beosound using the Master Link wiring:

 

The back of the BeoPort showing the connection details.  The USB connection is required so that Beo4 commands are relayed from the Beocentre/Beosound through the Master Link to the BeoPort and then to the software on the personal computer.

The audio jack is obvious but as you can see you are also able to use this to attach Power Link active speakers to your PC (via the BeoPort) and also have Beo4 commands received in the room where the BeoPort and PC are (via the IR eye - which is not a standard one BTW - it is a specific BeoPort one).

 

Wow. Thank you for such a detailed reply.  Thinking about the possibilities, if I were to remove the BC2 from my set up, could I store music on a mac-mini and feed it through the Playmaker using the Apple remote app to my speakers?(BL3s and Bl11)  This assumes all devices are cabled, rather than using wi-fi.

djs

djs:

Wow. Thank you for such a detailed reply. Thinking about the possibilities, if I were to remove the BC2 from my set up, could I store music on a mac-mini and feed it through the Playmaker using the Apple remote app to my speakers?(BL3s and Bl11) This assumes all devices are cabled, rather than using wi-fi.

djs

I believe so ... this assumes that you already have your music loaded under iTunes - yes ?

Have played with the Apple "Remote" App ?

I also believe you could have the AUX output from the BC2 go into the audio-in of the PM.

If your music is already in a NAS then why not have the direct (wired, no WiFi, from your router) connection that way ?

Please be patient with my technophobia.  To answer your questions...

Currently I have my music stored on my Apple laptop in iTunes in lossless format.

I have not played with the Apple remote app at this stage.

I bought the Playmaker to give me a solution where I could play music without the need of my 1000 or so CDs. I'm in a small flat now and would like to reclaim the storage space that the CDs take up. I was hopeful when the Playmaker was released. Unfortunately, the Playmaker suffers constant drop-outs when using wi-fi.  I do have an Apple TV which functions perfectly, so the drop-out fault is not entirely with the router. 

My preference would be to have music stored digitally on a device hidden in a cabinet near my speakers.  I would prefer for it to be cabled rather than wireless too. Do I understand correctly that the Playmaker would then act as a DAC feeding the stored music to my speakers?  I assume I would then need an app to act as a remote control to play, stop, pause and act as a volume control for the music?  At this stage I don't have a NAS, so was thinking that a mac mini could do that job and give me the iTunes interface that I am used to via the Apple remote app.  Am I on the right track?

I should add that although I know B&O offer a solution (BS5), it is not a device I particularly like.

Thank you for your time.  I appreciate the advice.

djs

 

djs:

Please be patient with my technophobia. To answer your questions...

Currently I have my music stored on my Apple laptop in iTunes in lossless format.

I have not played with the Apple remote app at this stage.

I bought the Playmaker to give me a solution where I could play music without the need of my 1000 or so CDs. I'm in a small flat now and would like to reclaim the storage space that the CDs take up. I was hopeful when the Playmaker was released. Unfortunately, the Playmaker suffers constant drop-outs when using wi-fi. I do have an Apple TV which functions perfectly, so the drop-out fault is not entirely with the router.

My preference would be to have music stored digitally on a device hidden in a cabinet near my speakers. I would prefer for it to be cabled rather than wireless too. Do I understand correctly that the Playmaker would then act as a DAC feeding the stored music to my speakers? I assume I would then need an app to act as a remote control to play, stop, pause and act as a volume control for the music? At this stage I don't have a NAS, so was thinking that a mac mini could do that job and give me the iTunes interface that I am used to via the Apple remote app. Am I on the right track?

I should add that although I know B&O offer a solution (BS5), it is not a device I particularly like.

Thank you for your time. I appreciate the advice.

djs

Your current setup matches what I had prior to my MacMini. And like you I use Apple TV.

I guess you don't have a Beovison ?

My BL11 and BL3s are connected to my Beosound via a Master Link.

While I do have a BeoPort I think we can satisfy your (short term) needs with the PlayMaker.

I believe you should be able to wire the PlayMaker to the router - just like (I think) you did with the Apple TV.

Start up iTunes and select the option for multiple speakers. You should see a choice for the lap top's built in speaker, the Apple TV, and hopefully the PlayMaker.

You should now be able to "broadcast" (push) to the PM and/or the ATV.

I suspect that up to now you have been operating the ATV in "pull" mode I.e. using its menus. But you can "push" AirPlay music to it as long as it and the TV are switched on.

I would then download the free Apple "remote" App (hopefully you have an iOS device) and experiment with controlling the iTunes remotely.

The above is just a suggestion to you started - if you like the approach then the next steps would decisions like a NAS or a MacMini

Hopefully I have not been too cryptic (hard to tell typing on an iPhone) and you will be able to have some fun tonight.

My Playmaker was wired to the router, as is the Apple TV.  As my music is stored on my laptop, I used Airplay to send music to the Playmaker using wi-fi.  Due to constant drop-outs I removed the Playmaker from the set up and re-instated my BC2.  Although I can successfully use Airplay to send music through the Apple TV, I notice a difference in sound quality. The Playmaker, when it works, sounds better.

I also noticed when I re-instated the BC2 that the sound quality was better than the wireless solution.  I would like to avoid wi-fi completely and have all my music on a NAS (Mac Mini) connected to the Playmaker and BL3s and BL11.

I no longer have a BeoVision.  I sold my BV3 and BV1 in Sydney before migrating to the UK.  I am currently using a Panasonic flat screen.  My BC2 and speakers provide sound for the TV.

Cheers,

djs

djs:

My Playmaker was wired to the router, as is the Apple TV. As my music is stored on my laptop, I used Airplay to send music to the Playmaker using wi-fi. Due to constant drop-outs I removed the Playmaker from the set up and re-instated my BC2. Although I can successfully use Airplay to send music through the Apple TV, I notice a difference in sound quality. The Playmaker, when it works, sounds better.

Was laptop wired to the router?

I think that would be worth doing abating the "remote" app to get a feel for the solution before you buy a MacMini.

Thanks Elephant.  That is good advice.  I will wire my laptop to the router to test the solution before buying a mac mini.  Now why didn't I think of that?

Cheers,

djs

 

 

Millemissen:

 

Hi dsj,

how about this constallation:

The MacMini or the laptop (using a small USB-DAC e.g. the Dragonfly) connected to the 'Line-in' of the Playmaker .

You can then remotecontrol iTunes (with the Remote app), have your main audio conection wired and still use AirPlay to send content (Netradio, Spotfy, podcasts...) to the (hardwired) PM.

Greetings Millemissen

 

I was thinking of doing the exact same thing. Forgive my ignorance (I am a bit clueless about these things), but do you need a separate DAC for the laptop since PM is essentially a DAC? I mean, do you also use the laptop's DAC in this setup since the signal passes through PM anyway? Thanks!

hadraktas:

I was thinking of doing the exact same thing. Forgive my ignorance (I am a bit clueless about these things), but do you need a separate DAC for the laptop since PM is essentially a DAC? I mean, do you also use the laptop's DAC in this setup since the signal passes through PM anyway? Thanks!

The problem with taking the "line out" of the laptop is two fold (1) you are using the DAC of laptop and (2) you are often getting a small amount of electrical noise by virtue if all the circuits being tightly packed together.

Going digital over the LAN to either the ATV or the PM avoids both problems.

So does using a USB connection.

Thank you elephant for your response. I was hoping that I would avoid the need of getting another DAC if I used a PM but I see now that this is not the case. Can anyone recommend a decent USB DAC, I have no idea where to get one :/

I have a BC2 and have worked through all the options discussed. Reason for doing this was the BC2 would only play a quarter of my disks as the CD transport is out of adjustment and I rather think B&O will declare it unreparable.

imac and PC2 interface:

1) running linkplayer to simulate an audiomaster - buggy, I have RS423 analyser and able to view the masterlink control codes at byte level - it's a finite state machine and the PC2 appears to drop a load of control messages.

2) vmware fusion to run wirddows 7 guest OS with BC2 as audio master - horrible interface failed to make up for using beo4 remote. Running itunes on mac side with mac remote actually much better providing you are in the same room as the mac.

3) attempted to use beolink wireless 1 - at one point I had 4 sets of beolab3's around the house, ONCE had them all working, but beolink wireless units of various ages had firmware changes - earlier units would remain on one channel and cut out with interference, later units would change channels - of course B&O would never tell you about this. I have wifi network analyser and was able to see the 802.11 traffic in real time. B&O dealer eventually flashed all the wireless units to the same firmware revision. I no longer run masterlink over the wireless and just have a pair of remote beolab3's.

4) imac, itunes, airport express on 801.1 hardwired link via Cisco switch, line out into BC2 line in - works, but lacks fidelity, DAC on the express is fine for compressed but you do loose something with lossless on the beolab9's, but perfectly adequate with the beolab3's now all hard wired into the BC2 with an armload of powerlink splitters. I am told you can run up to 16 beolabs off the BC2.

5) imac, itunes, apogee one USB DAC into BC2 line in. The best for quality, but of course the imac now has to be within USB range of the BC2. Apogee is a damn good semi-pro DAC - you could spend silly money on oversampling DAC's but be honest with yourself, iTunes AAC lossless isn't the last word in AD conversion. Want to go further? Buy yourself a NAIM Unitiserve or better still an HDX.

I am serious, if someone wants a PC2 and two beolink wireless 1's with the latest firmware..... 8-)

 

 

Line out on a laptop is usually headphone out rather than line level out. A -10db unbalanced line out is designed to drive your BC2 line in presenting probably a 10K ohm load. A headphone out typically drives a 32 to a few hundred ohm load so you are two three orders of magnitude mismatched. headphone out usually makes a sound on your system but don't expect quality!

Harry Adraktas-Rentis:

Thank you elephant for your response. I was hoping that I would avoid the need of getting another DAC if I used a PM but I see now that this is not the case. Can anyone recommend a decent USB DAC, I have no idea where to get one :/

Hi again,

some of your questions are already answered.

 

If you use the 'line-in' of the PM there is no DAC involved, since the signal is already converted to analog.

I mentioned the Dragonfly (http://www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/dragonfly-dac)  as one possible DAC to use.

Would be my first choice if I needed one (which I at the moment don't).

There are plenty of other small - not too expensive - DACs to get.

Give amazon.de (or .com) a try! Keywords: 'USB-DAC'.

You should just try one or more of them, as you are free to send it back if ordered online.

Tip: the Audioquest homepage is very informative.

N.B. I would not use any laptop/pc/mac as an audio source WITHOUT an external DAC.

Greetings Millemissen

 

Thank you very much for the info Millemissen and I apologise for making you repeat yourself. It does make more sense now re the DAC and I will look into getting one through amazon before I connect my laptop to the PM.