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This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
The final piece for my 8000 system will hopefully be this Beocord 9000. It appeared to be working except for fast forward. Opening it up though, I found a broken leaf spring for the cassette mechanism on the left side. Without the leaf spring the Beocord is still able to play a cassette and rewind. On fast forward I can hear the click of the solenoid but nothing happens.
This will be the first tape deck I have worked on so I hope there are experts out there that can guide me. I do have a hard copy of the service manual and have started to read through it. I don't know if the broken part has anything to do with the fast forward not working but even if it doesn't, it will need fixing. One problem I see is that the broken part is supposed to be pressing down on a small bearing. That bearing is long gone. I have Beocords 8000 and 8004 that I can salvage parts from. I have one 8004 that does work but has some display segments out so I won't use that one as I would like to repair it as well.
Here is a picture of the broken leaf spring. You can see the grease where the bearing is supposed to go.
Here is the Beocord 9000 cassette assembly showing where the broken leaf spring came from.
Here is my working Beocord 8004 HX-Pro cassette assembly and what the leaf spring should look like (when it is not broken).The leaf springs appear to be the same between the 8004 and 9000 but the tape heads and wiring are different.
I am concerned now that even if I am able to pull a spare part for the broken assembly, installing it will require taking off the tape heads. That means having to deal with alignments during the re-install.
I just realized that my broken spring on this Beocord 9000 is the same spring shown on the thread "Beocord 8002 mechanism, mysterious spring" by Beoworld member, hamacbleu. Martin said the part can be glued back in place. I will need to steal a bearing for it from another deck I guess.
What kind of stress does that piece that holds the spring take though? For it to break like that, something with a lot of force must be hitting it.
I opened up and checked my other two Beocords, the BC8000 and the other 8004 HX-Pro. The 8000 has the leaf springs intact but the second 8004 has the same left side broken off. So my 9000, one of my 8004 decks and 8002 (of hamacbleu) all have the same break. Same problem across three model numbers. If I glue it back in place I wonder how long it will last and, again, what is the source of the problem? I would like to do some preventative maintenance on my 8004 deck that works and steal the display from the 8004 that doesn't work.
On the 9000, I am thinking of either going with the glue fix or stealing the unbroken pieces out of the 8000. The latter would be preferable as long as I could be sure the head alignment wouldn't get fouled up.
I think I know what might be causing the left leaf spring assembly to break.
Looking at the 8004 HX-Pro that is still intact. This is a picture of the cassette assembly with the heads disengaged. I have marked the direction of travel the head assembly will travel when they do engage.
Here is the 8004 with the heads engaged. You can see where I have marked "contact point". There is not contact there but it is very close. I think that if the bearing fell out or some other mechanical issue happens that can skew the head assembly's motion, that point could come into contact. If there was contact there, the metal head assembly hitting the plastic leaf spring mount could weaken and eventually break it.
That being the case, I think gluing the leaf spring mount back in place should hold up as nothing should come into contact with it (under working conditions).
sonavor: I just realized that my broken spring on this Beocord 9000 is the same spring shown on the thread "Beocord 8002 mechanism, mysterious spring" by Beoworld member, hamacbleu. Martin said the part can be glued back in place. I will need to steal a bearing for it from another deck I guess. What kind of stress does that piece that holds the spring take though? For it to break like that, something with a lot of force must be hitting it.
Find a small ball bearing, cover it with inside a rag, crash it with a hammer, you will now have balls for more decks
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
I found this nice picture another Beoworld member had emailed me while back. This picture shows the Beocord 800x, 9000 cassette assembly stripped. I have marked the break points on the left leaf spring mount.
I was left with a big washer and never knew where it belongs: I just saw on your photos where it was suppose to be fixed... Thanks!!
I fixed the leaf spring with Krazy glue and I was really surprised how well it was holding (You can't imagine the amount of "play stop play stop". it has endured during my investigation...) However It probably won't be forever... I just realized: could it have been fixed from the bottom of the deck, with a washer and a smaller screw? then, with the space remaining above, you could fix the metal spring with another small screw?
By the way, I have found every lost bearings inside the machine... be careful if you dismantle the transport, you might find them inside...
I'm glad this thread pops up: I'm really curious to see how complicated that mysterious 9000 model is... thanks for sharing
Guillaume
hamacbleu: I fixed the leaf spring with Krazy glue and I was really surprised how well it was holding (You can't imagine the amount of "play stop play stop". it has endured during my investigation...) However It will probably won't be forever... I just realized: could it have been fixed from the bottom of the deck, with a washer and a smaller screw? then, with the space remaining above, you could fix the metal spring with another small screw? Guillaume
I fixed the leaf spring with Krazy glue and I was really surprised how well it was holding (You can't imagine the amount of "play stop play stop". it has endured during my investigation...) However It will probably won't be forever... I just realized: could it have been fixed from the bottom of the deck, with a washer and a smaller screw? then, with the space remaining above, you could fix the metal spring with another small screw?
I'm not sure I follow fixing it from the bottom of the assembly. Do you mean running a screw/bolt from the leaf spring through the broken plastic mount to the bottom?I think gluing it in place will be fine. The head assembly shouldn't hit it. The key will be making sure the moving parts are lubricated and slide evenly as they should. Since this problem is prevalent in several versions of this design (8000,8002, 8004 and 9000), it would be nice to come up with a permanent fix.
sonavor: I found this nice picture another Beoworld member had emailed me while back. This picture shows the Beocord 800x, 9000 cassette assembly stripped. I have marked the break points on the left leaf spring mount.
Remove the bottom piece from the base plate, unscrew the steel spring from the broken off top piece, drill a hole through the broken top piece, use a threaded bolt (M3) with nut and washer to fasten it all
I found the email with the Beocord 9000 repair information. It was provided courtesy of Geoff Randall. Thanks, Geoff-sonavor
Søren Mexico: sonavor: I found this nice picture another Beoworld member had emailed me while back. This picture shows the Beocord 800x, 9000 cassette assembly stripped. I have marked the break points on the left leaf spring mount. Remove the bottom piece from the base plate, unscrew the steel spring from the broken off top piece, drill a hole through the broken top piece, use a threaded bolt (M3) with nut and washer to fasten it all
Here is a picture of the underneath side. So the piece to remove is the black plastic piece shown here?
hamacbleu: By the way, I have found every lost bearings inside the machine... be careful if you dismantle the transport, you might find them inside... Guillaume
Thanks for letting me know you found those bearings. I did a quick check of mine and sure enough, I found it !!
sonavor: Søren Mexico: sonavor: I found this nice picture another Beoworld member had emailed me while back. This picture shows the Beocord 800x, 9000 cassette assembly stripped. I have marked the break points on the left leaf spring mount. Remove the bottom piece from the base plate, unscrew the steel spring from the broken off top piece, drill a hole through the broken top piece, use a threaded bolt (M3) with nut and washer to fasten it all Here is a picture of the underneath side. So the piece to remove is the black plastic piece shown here?
Taking off the cassette assembly of the 9000, I verified the marked location in the picture is the place the bolt needs to attach the leaf spring mount.
Maybe it's best to glue it after all,
forget what I said, Søren advice is more logical than mine. However, the problem is that the hole in which that plastic piece is inserted is bigger that the screw itself. So the piece could move in that hole by 1mm or so.
..But if you don't remove the protruding little plastic thing (from the concerned piece) that goes in the hole, get rid of the plastic round piece at the bottom of the transport (anyway isn't it lost?) then put a longer screw on top and a washer at the bottom... (it won't move since the protruding thing will be inserted in the hole)
...Or just glue it...
sonavor:Here is a picture of the underneath side. So the piece to remove is the black plastic piece shown here?
I cant identify the piece, but if there are room for bolt washer and nut underneath the plastic piece, just drill through that one too, and attach it all with the bolt, I would glue or epoxy it too. Maybe just glue the 2 plastic pieces together without the leaf spring, let dry, drill the hole all way through,, attach the leaf spring with the bolt, washer and nut.
Yes, I think I will take it apart and prepare the leaf spring mount first. I'll try gluing the plastic base and putting a bolt through it like you suggest. Then I can remount the leaf spring and bearing.
I glued the plastic part with Araldite. No problems ever since !
Jacques
I did look into Araldite. It isn't readily available to me in stores where I live so I ordered some to try on my next project. I used some JB Weld to fix this one.Here is the left leaf spring re-installed (with the bearing in place). I felt I needed the bolt as the JB Weld epoxy I used to glue the piece back on is slow drying and I couldn't clamp it in place without taking apart the assembly. The bolt served as a clamp and is solidly in place. The plastic mount got pretty scratched up in the process as I had to clamp it while I drilled out the hole for the bolt. The locking nut for the bolt was difficult to grab with pliers while tightening everything...but worked out okay.I am going to let everything cure for a few more hours. The next step is to replace two rubber belts. I went through my records and discovered I have had this Beocord 9000 sitting around since December 2011. Back when I got it I had contacted Martin and ordered the belts so I already have those in my parts inventory (a nice surprise). So in a few hours I will test and see where I am at with this tape deck.
I tried out the reworked Beocord 9000 cassette assembly. The play and rewind operations work really good. Very smooth. Fast Forward still doesn't do anything. The solenoids engage for Fast Forward but the motor doesn't turn and the solenoids return to the off positions. I checked the plastic clutch assembly and it looks all intact with no cracks.
Here are some pictures from the underside of the cassette assembly at the four modes: stopped, play, rewind and fast forward
First is the stopped position
Next is play
Rewind
Last, Fast Forward. I had someone else press Fast Forward so I could take the picture since it immediately kicks back out of this position.
When power is off and I manually move the solenoid controlled levers I don't feel anything binding. The movement is very smooth. But something is preventing Fast Forward from starting. I just can't see it. I have been studying the mechanism in the Beocord 8004 HX-Pro but so far nothing is jumping out at me as different.
I reviewed Guillaume's Beocord 8002 thread. I am wondering if my Fast Forward problem is electrical.
Does it engages in fast forward and then it stops? (does it turn in fast forward a short period of time before stopping) or it just does not engage at all? In the later case, I might think it would be mechanical. I have dismantled everything, cleansed everything and relubbed all the gear. I also smoothly sanded the 4 rubber tires... Could it be a tire that is slipping or that does not come fully in contact with another roller?
I'm just suggesting things I have been confronted to with a 8002 ... But I don't know that 9000 model, and I see that there is 2 hall sensors in it. so maybe they operates in a different way with each others...
Just a thought...could it also be that the metal arm with the big white wheel is to far from the perpendicular metal arm it's pointing at? On your photos, the distances are difficult to evaluate.
But check in the german manual available on this site: in "Mechanische Einstellen", then "Rückspülen" (Rewind). (The english manual does not have this) It prescribes a distance to 0.5-1mm between those two arms, when rewind is engage. (on your photos of "rewind" it's seems to be far more than that..) If you download the manual for the 6000-8002, you will have the exact same procedure in english... Don't know however if it can have an influence later on the fastforward function..
EDIT: just reviewed the photos on a big screen: the distances seems fine for the rewind function, so nothing seems to be retouched on that matter..
I am fortunate to own a hard copy of the English service manual and I have a PDF of the German manual. I will look at those distances. The big white wheel is the pulley and clutch assembly I think. I'm not sure yet what you mean by the metal arm it is pointing at but I will look. I have been comparing side-by-side the 9000 assembly with the 8004 (that is working). So far nothing jumps out as being wrong. But I know there is something.
The 9000 tape play and rewind work perfect so I know the motor and control logic for those is all good. The solenoids are involved in all the operations so they should be fine. The fast forward operation goes into the correct position but nothing starts to turn. So I need to find out if the mechanical parts are going to the correct starting position and some electrical problem is not starting. Later today I am going to start monitoring the signal path for the fast forward and see what activity is going on there.
I was refering to that distance, but it does look fine on your photo... (the space between the point of the arm and the other arm that moves from left to right
Here is a picture of those two arms (A and B) for the rewind operation. Is the gap I have marked in green the distance you are wanting me to check?
Okay...we posted at the same time. So we are talking the same point.
I think I have found the problem and it is mechanical as Guillaume thought. Taking advantage of having some other Beocords, I studied the working Beocord 8004. While it works in play, rewind and fast forward, it is difficult to see the inner workings of the cassette assembly. So I took the non-working 8004 and started to disassemble the cassette assembly where I could see what wheels meet together for the fast forward. I found that I had to removed the belts and the big fly-wheel but I could see the mechanical lever move the small wheel in place to drive the fast forward. Knowing that, I removed the belts and fly-wheel from the 9000 to take a look at what it does on the fast forward. The first thing I noticed was the spring loaded lever that moves the drive wheel in place does not move smoothly. It is gunked up and there is too much resistance to allow the mechanics to even move the wheel into correct position. I am able to push it on my hand so it looks like it will move correctly if it is cleaned up and lubricated.
Here is a picture that shows the small arm that moves the wheel into position for the fast forward. I have removed the spring and am using a screw driver to move the arm for the picture. I also show (at the bottom of the picture) the small wheel when it is disengaged (normal) and engaged (fast forward). Since the mechanism is gunked up, it always remains in the disengaged position. I will clean it up and lubricate it, then give it a try.
That did it. The cassette mechanism is working now - play, rewind and fast forward. I had to take a good part of the cassette assembly apart in order to clean and grease everything properly. The lever that engages the fast forward works really smoothly now.
The next step is to go through the deck and replace the electrolytic capacitors with new ones.
I read in the technical manual that the Beocord 9000 is supposed to have its own calibration cassette. The owner I bought this unit from didn't have it.
The Beocord 9000 Rectifier Board [ 6 ] has three electrolytic capacitors. The service manual shows them in the schematic and parts list as C1, C2: 1000uF, 35V and C3: 5000uF, -10, +15%.
However, on my actual board, C3 is 3300uF, 35V. I checked one of the Beocord 8004 decks and it has 5000uF. The parts list on the 9000 is specific about the tolerance being -10%, +15% on the 5000uF so it is odd someone installed the 3300uF capacitor there. It must be a replacement, right?
Here is a picture of the schematic showing those three capacitors.
Well, I didn't get any replies about the C3 capacitor on the rectifier board but since all the other Beocords have a 5000uF and the service manual specifies that, I put in a 5000uF during the recap. I always measure all of the capacitors I take out as well as the ones I put in (with a PEAK ESR meter). That C3 capacitor measure 2200uF. The new one measures 4850uF. An interesting thing about all of these recaps I have done - For the most part, a very high percentage of the existing caps are well within spec. Some are even dead on and have a low ESR. However, I always find a few that are out of spec. It makes it a little tough sometimes when the capacitor you are removing measures better than the new capacitor you are putting in. In those cases I keep measuring the new caps until I find one that at least matches the old one. Otherwise, I might as well leave the existing cap where it is.
The Beocord 9000 is all clean, play, rewind and fast forward all work smoothly. I haven't tested recording yet. The only disappointment so far is that I can hear the flywheel turning when the Beocord is stopped (and the wheel is in idle motion). If I turn the cassette mechanism on its side the sound goes away. It is not very loud but I was expecting it to be silent. I have taken it out and checked that everything is tight a couple of times. Everything is well lubricated so I guess that is just the nature of this particular deck. I'll see how the Beocord 8004 is in comparison when I recap those decks.
Another thing about the Beocord 9000 recap - I have the full English Beocord 9000 service manual (original copy). It has all of the sections that the German PDF version. However, for a number of the boards where there are capacitors for the left and right channel, the parts list only lists the reference designators and values for one channel. I guess that was to save space in the manual. On the Dolby PCB (board 2), I discovered that my Beocord has a different version of the Dolby board. My board has a lot more electrolytic caps on it. It took me the longest to recap.
For now, I think this project is done. I will use the Beocord 9000 in my 8000 system and see how I like it.
Here is a picture of a part of the Dolby (PCB 02) board after the recap. The sticker shows it is 3004034. That doesn't match up with it listed in my Beocord 9000 service manual (Type 4811 through 4817). Unfortunately my Beocord's sticker is missing on the back of the unit so I am not sure what type Beocord 9000 it is.