ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I went back and checked the online Beocord 9000 PDF service manual. That schematic for the Dolby PCB does look like mine. The Beocord 9000 type numbers on the service manual are the same though. My hard copy is a different version then.Here is what my recapped Dolby (and headphone amp) board looks like.
hamacbleu:That means that you have completed the whole system? Congrats then... Just to confirm things: c3 of my beocord 8002 is also 5000 uF...
Thanks.
For now my 8000 system is complete. I have a couple of possible tweaks like I might end up switching one of the Beocord 8004 decks for this 9000. I also will probably try out the MS-150.2 speakers in place of these MS-150's. I have to replace the surrounds and recap the MS-150.2 speakers first though. I also need to fix the speed display on the Beogram 8002. The turntable appears to be working really good other than that display issue. It seems there is always some tweak. I have another Beogram 8002 that I could switch in but on that one I need to adjust the lead in position. It is just missing the start of the vinyl so I need to open it up and find where to adjust that. I'll post one more picture of the completed 8000 system on that thread...then I will be done for a while.
I am not happy with my Beocord 9000. It still has some problem. In testing its recording ability when connected to the Beomaster 8000, I am not getting anything to record with the Beocord connected to the Beomaster via the rear DIN connection. In addition, in between passages when the sound should be quiet, I can hear some mechanical rumble in my headphones (or speakers) from the Beocord.
As a quick test, I took an ipod and a 5-pin DIN connector (for a B&O tape deck) and tried to record from that source directly into the back of the Beocord. It produced nothing as well. So I switched the source connection to the front (aux) DIN connector and sure enough, it is able to record.
My next test was to move on to one of the Beocord 8004 decks. It plays beautifully. It is completely quiet between tracks. However, it will not record from the rear or front (aux) DIN jacks.
That leaves the second Beocord 8004 deck. It plays great too and is able to record...but only from the front (aux) DIN jack. The rear DIN jack does not produce anything. I can't believe three decks all have a problem with their rear (amplifier) DIN connector so I am wondering what I am doing wrong.
I went back and read the Beocord 9000 and 8004 user manuals again. The Beocords are sensitive to the what is connected to them via the rear DIN jack. So I went ahead and connected the Beocord 8004 (the one that can record from the front DIN jack) to the Beomaster 8000 and it is able to record from the Beomaster. The recording is very good too so that is great news. The only thing that didn't work was the monitor switch when I was recording. When the Beocord 8004 was recording I couldn't get any sound with the Beomaster monitor switch engaged. The Beocord 8004 HX-Pro doesn't support monitoring the recording in progress?
In any case, it appears I have a good functioning Beocord for my 8000 system. It just isn't a Beocord 9000 yet. I need to take a break from all of these Beocords now. The Beocord 8004 is a great sounding cassette deck though and I can be perfectly happy with it.
Have you noticed the switch underneath?
Also, have a look here : http://notebook.beocentral.com/page/7/
where Tim's explains the odd earthing arrangement of this deck.
Jacques
chartz: Have you noticed the switch underneath? Also, have a look here : http://notebook.beocentral.com/page/7/ where Tim's explains the odd earthing arrangement of this deck.
Interesting on the grounding. As far as the switch, you are referring to the - DIN/LINE switch? When connected to the Beomaster, I had that switch set to LINE per the manual. The 8004 decks don't have that switch though. With the 7 pin DIN connected in the back of the 8004 to the Beomaster, I am able to record. The recording and playback is excellent. Maybe the 9000 noise problem is also due grounding as your link describes. However, I am not getting the clicking noise problem that is described. After I take a break from the 9000, what I need to do is follow a test signal for recording and playback through the cassette deck and see where the problems are.
Thanks for the information.
-sonavor
sonavor: I went back and read the Beocord 9000 and 8004 user manuals again. The Beocords are sensitive to the what is connected to them via the rear DIN jack. So I went ahead and connected the Beocord 8004 (the one that can record from the front DIN jack) to the Beomaster 8000 and it is able to record from the Beomaster. The recording is very good too so that is great news. The only thing that didn't work was the monitor switch when I was recording. When the Beocord 8004 was recording I couldn't get any sound with the Beomaster monitor switch engaged. The Beocord 8004 HX-Pro doesn't support monitoring the recording in progress? In any case, it appears I have a good functioning Beocord for my 8000 system. It just isn't a Beocord 9000 yet. I need to take a break from all of these Beocords now. The Beocord 8004 is a great sounding cassette deck though and I can be perfectly happy with it.
I am not entirely happy with my one Beocord 8004. Despite it being to a professional for cleaning, new belts and adjustments, it's just not.....a top tape deck. My Nakamichi BX-300 is head and shoulders above it. I dare say my Beocord 4500 is better at both playback and recording.
Don't get me wrong. It's lovely, is a decent match to my Beogram 4002, and plays back prerecorded tapes well. But it's no all star that's for sure.
BTW, your recording problems are puzzling. My Beocord rear jack works just fine.
Rich: I am not entirely happy with my one Beocord 8004. Despite it being to a professional for cleaning, new belts and adjustments, it's just not.....a top tape deck. My Nakamichi BX-300 is head and shoulders above it. I dare say my Beocord 4500 is better at both playback and recording. Don't get me wrong. It's lovely, is a decent match to my Beogram 4002, and plays back prerecorded tapes well. But it's no all star that's for sure. BTW, your recording problems are puzzling. My Beocord rear jack works just fine.
My Beocord 8004 7-Pin jack works with the Beomaster 8000 on one of my 8004 decks. On the other 8004, it doesn't record from either jack...so I need to find that problem. The Beocord 9000 works from the front DIN jack but isn't from the rear jack for some reason. I will look at that later.I am really pleased with the recording and playback of the working 8004 I have. However, it doesn't provide some of the nice custom recording features that the Nakamichi decks provide...like gapless recording, fade-in, fade-out, auto-reverse. My working 8004 has developed a slight problem though. The backlight lamp on the signal meters is remaining on when the deck is in Standby. I'll have to look at that but first I am trying to get the non-working 8004 back playing and recording again.
Working on the second Beocord 8004. It does have the cracking on the clutch assembly as mentioned by other Beocord 800x repair threads. I don't quite understand the fix. Does the clutch assembly come apart so collars can be put over the areas that are cracked? Or do I just apply something like JB Weld to the cracked piece?Here is a picture of the damaged clutch.
While recapping this second Beocord 8004 I noticed a discrepancy on the Rec./Playback Board [ 3 ]. Capacitor C3 is shown on the PCB trace with opposite polarity markings as the schematic. The actual capacitor is connected per the schematic though. That can be a problem if you remove the cap without noting the polarity and go by the marking on the board when you replace it.
Here is a picture of the schematic and the board trace side.
Here is the component side where you can see the C3 capacitor is installed per the schematic (and opposite the trace side marking).
Look here: http://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/30587/246646.aspx#246646
One can see on your picture that the bushing at right is out of its housing!
Once back in place, make sure both brass bushings protrude slightly, so that nothing rubs against the plastic housing.
The cap: I've too come across several mistakes in various B&O components of that era. Well spotted!
chartz:The cap: I've too come across several mistakes in various B&O components of that era. Well spotted!
And not just B&O. The manufacturer makes/orders a large batch of the PCBs before an error in silk print is noticed and it's not worth the cost to have them remade. Assembly line workers don't do their work by the copper side silk print, and an assembly robot cares even less.
In the "modern age", circuit board designers usually try to orient all components the same way when possible, so always be suspicious when something tries to float upstream, so to speak.
After the designers moved to proper PCB design CAD software, errors like this became much less common, since the silk print is usually created automatically from the schematic. The error can already exist in the source schematic, though!
--mika
chartz: Look here: http://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/30587/246646.aspx#246646 One can see on your picture that the bushing at right is out of its housing! Once back in place, make sure both brass bushings protrude slightly, so that nothing rubs against the plastic housing.
chartz: Once back in place, make sure both brass bushings protrude slightly, so that nothing rubs against the plastic housing.
I pulled the Beocord 9000 clutch and it does have cracks in the clutch arm. I didn't see them before. The picture here shows one of the bushings pushed in. I think I need a way of pulling that back out before I put support rings on.
I was able to use a solid metal rod, that was a little bit smaller in diameter than the plastic housing for the brass bushings, to tap out the bushings. Now I just need the brass tubes to arrive so I can cut some outer collars.
sonavor: chartz: Once back in place, make sure both brass bushings protrude slightly, so that nothing rubs against the plastic housing. Jacques, I started thinking about my Beocord 9000 and its noise problem so I checked the clutch bushing position on that deck. It looked out too. So I readjusted it so the bushing is part way in. However, when reassembled, you can see by this picture that the pulley belt comes in contact with the flywheel. I will try readjusting the clutch assembly again but it seems like there isn't much room for adjustment on the clutch assembly itself. How close should the belt come to the flywheel?
It should be well above the flywheel (2 mm), and I think you have found that by yourself now!
I found out the #1152 brass tubing I ordered won't arrive for a week. A friend let me know about a local model airplane store that might carry it and sure enough, they did. So I picked up the material today and got to work on Beoworld member ɓʋɾɑɳɫɘɮ's fix. I think it is quite brilliant so thanks for providing this ɓʋɾɑɳɫɘɮ.
Here is a picture where I cut some of the brass tube stock to approximately 5mm thick pieces. I have test fitted two of them and they slide on snug. I can pull them off without too much trouble though so I will use a little JB Weld at the bottom of the brass sleeves (away from the opening). I used a Dremel tool with a metal cutting blade for the cuts. Then I had to file away the burrs.
Here are three completed clutch arms. The clutch on the left is fully assembled. The arm on the far right is one I started to fix with JB Weld before I found out about ɓʋɾɑɳɫɘɮ's fix method. I was able to easily file away the grey JB Weld material from the area I needed to place the brass sleeve. I placed the completed clutch (on the left) back into the Beocord 9000. All tape functions work smoothly. The Beocord 9000 still has some issues though. I tested recording from the back and from the front (aux). I used an ipod with a 5-pin DIN connector to the Beocord. The cable is for a tape deck so it has the L/R pair to and from the DIN plug. For the Aux input in front, the DIN plug works as it is marked. When I move it to the rear (Amplifier) input, I have to switch the lines in the cable (inputs and outputs are reversed). That matches what I see in the schematic. With the correct L/R lines used in the rear connection, I can record from there using the under-chassis switch set to Line.The 9000 appears to record fine. When I take the recorded cassette to a different machine, it plays clean and there is no unwanted noise. Playback in the 9000 is still bad though. I notice that the problem is just in the right channel. When there is no music, instead of silence, I can hear a motor whir. But again, only in the right channel. So the problem is with the monitoring of the tape. During recording mode, I don't hear that sound in the right channel. At the start of playback I also think I am detecting that clicking noise that may be what Jacques pointed me to. That link talks about a grounding problem with motor casing. I will check that out next. If I can solve that problem I think I will have a good functioning Beocord 9000. That would leave me with just the two Beocord 8004 decks to finish up.
I applied the Beocord 9000 motor earthing fix today. Unfortunately it didn't fix the right channel noise problem or the click/thump problem. It didn't make anything worse so that is good.Here is a picture of the fix. The instructions were to remove the ground wiring between the head assembly and P19-6. I have circled the end points of that wire and where I cut it. Next was to connect a wire (to provide ground) from the cassette chassis mounting screw to the metal screen cover of the microphone amplifier. I have circled those to end points as well.
While working on the Beocord 9000 I have seen some greenish/bluish fluid on some of the connectors. I don't see it on the Beocord 8004 units. Does anyone know what it is from?
Last night I got the two Beocord 8004 cassette assemblies put back together with the fixed clutches. Both 8004 decks playback and record fine. They don't have that right channel rumble that the 9000 has. The problem with the 8004 decks is that one deck has a couple of missing display segments (the numeric display). The other 8004 won't go into standby mode correctly. It shows the standby dot but the backlight of the signal meter remains on and I can here the motor idling.
After swapping some parts I isolated and found that the Standby (8004 not going to Standby) problem is on the power supply board [ 4 ]. Replacing that board on the 8004 allows it to go to standby. On the display segment problem I am thinking it might be a connection problem. The two middle display sections don't show the top segment. Occasionally though, I have seen one illuminate. I think I will pull that board and re-solder the display. Both 8004 decks also need new belts so I have ordered a couple sets from Martin. I can pull the new belts I put on the Beocord 9000 and that will give me a fully functioning 8004 to put back in my 8000 system. That leaves the display problem on one 8004 deck and the playback issues on the 9000.
I should have added that I also need to determine which component(s) on the power supply board are ignoring the Standby signal. I am going to take a break from fixing the one remaining 8004 and the 9000. With Beocord parts taking up all of my workshop space I need to put everything up for a bit. My parts for the power amplifier tester are all here now and I need to get that built. I can listen to the good Beocord 8004 while build the new tester. The 8004 trim doesn't match my Beomaster 8000 as well as the Becord 9000 does. The flash photo here also shows that I do need to eventually restore the color to my SC80 cabinet. The original owner kept the system too exposed to the sun.
Outstanding work, John!
Don't give up on that Beocord 9000. I spent much time on mine too and it now works perfectly. Replay is superb and for instance piano sounds superbly stable. I love the auto-recording feature. I think it's the only deck that does its auto settings on both channels and at several frequencies! No Nak does that I believe.
You set recording at 0dB (not the real 0dB) and the deck manages the max recording level by itself. After recording you'll find that the meters will hit the +5 LEDs with a good metal tape, but sometimes less than 0dB with an old ferric.
And if the battery is good the Beocord will memorize all that (but then stick to the same cassette brand and model).
Only drawback: it is not possible to monitor recording, but this makes perfect sense of course.
One bonus, the display-assisted adjusting procedures for the technician!
Thanks Jacques. I do intend to get the Beocord 9000 working. It will be a nice deck to use with the 8000 System. I will also fix the power supply board on the other Beocord 8004. Meanwhile, the 8004 that I did get working is performing well. Since I got the Beomaster 8000 working and driving the MS-150 speakers it is quickly becoming my most used system. I am liking the MS-150 speakers more and more.
It has been nine months now since doing anything with the Beocord 9000. Since then I have worked on a couple of Beocord 8004 decks. One of them works great, the other is pretty close to being all the way back. It has a problem with occasionally stopping (no forward, reverse or play).
I have somehow acquired a bunch of these Beocord 8004 and 9000 decks. Some of them were given to me, some I bought because the price was too low to resist. Two of my Beocord 9000 decks were in decent condition where new belts had them playing again. Both have problems during recording though. After running a tape calibration, the recording volume levels are messed up. On both decks the volume levels have to be set down to about 1.5 on the slider to be just in the red on the meters. Any higher and the meters peg. Even at the low volume level setting though, the recording quality is bad. So something is wrong with both decks.
Two of my Beocord 9000 decks are missing the model sticker. The other three say type 4812. However, the two without stickers match one of the units that says 4812. The other two 4812 decks have different Module 2 (Dolby boards) but they match my service manual ( for types 4811 through 4817). There are some things about the Service Manual electrical adjustment procedures I don't quite follow. Does anyone know if those procedures are accurate and have made those adjustments?
Since I have the other Beocord 9000 decks I will go ahead and start on them and see if I can manage at least one good unit out of the bunch. Then I can try and figure out how to make the Service Manual adjustments on one of these decks.
sonavor: After running a tape calibration, the recording volume levels are messed up. On both decks the volume levels have to be set down to about 1.5 on the slider to be just in the red on the meters. Any higher and the meters peg. Even at the low volume level setting though, the recording quality is bad. So something is wrong with both decks.
After running a tape calibration, the recording volume levels are messed up. On both decks the volume levels have to be set down to about 1.5 on the slider to be just in the red on the meters. Any higher and the meters peg. Even at the low volume level setting though, the recording quality is bad. So something is wrong with both decks.
Sounds more like an input level problem.You will have the same problem if you use f.e. a Beocord 1900 with a Beomaster 8000.Some decks have a level switch at the back, right next to the DIN socket. Have you checked this ?
Martin
Dillen: sonavor: After running a tape calibration, the recording volume levels are messed up. On both decks the volume levels have to be set down to about 1.5 on the slider to be just in the red on the meters. Any higher and the meters peg. Even at the low volume level setting though, the recording quality is bad. So something is wrong with both decks. Sounds more like an input level problem.You will have the same problem if you use f.e. a Beocord 1900 with a Beomaster 8000.Some decks have a level switch at the back, right next to the DIN socket. Have you checked this ? Martin
All of the decks have a hole to the left of the DIN jack mount where a switch could go but none of them have it. I do have the switch on a Beocord 8000 unit though. I haven't found any other place on the Beocord 9000 to control the input level. My Beocord 8004 doesn't have the switch and it records nicely with the Beomaster 8000. The volume level sliders get set to between 5 and 6 on the Beocord 8004 with metal, type IV cassette tape. Back on my bench I tested just using an ipod docking station as the input to Beocord and I get the same result as I do when I use the Beomaster 8000.
This picture shows the Beocord 9000 input level problem during recording. You can see the volume level sliders are set low and the meters are already too high. The resulting test recording was distorted.
Three of my Beocord 9000 units have this Dolby 02 Module (I think this is the later models)
Two of the Beocord 9000 units have this 02 Dolby Module
The Beocord 9000 Service Manual electrical adjustment procedures call out test point designators (TP1 and TP2) on the older Dolby board. Is there an equivalent on the newer Dolby boards and is the adjustment procedure the same?
Yes, the ones with the two HA12038 ICs are the later version.
Beocord 9000 has the Line/Din level switch at the bottom.
As usual, you nailed it Martin. Nine months isn't that long ago and I would have thought I would have remembered what that Line/DIN switch was for. I had just set it to DIN because I was using the DIN connector and forgot it affects the level. I just set it to "Line" and tried a recording. The input level sliders now need to be at about 6 (which is what I expect) and the test recording worked great.
Thanks Martin, now I can sleep comfortably tonight and resume the Beocord restorations tomorrow.
As an aside John, this is explained in the manual