ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
According to:
www.completemusicupdate.com/article/bpi-publishes-vinyl-revival-stats/
vinyl is coming (back).
Will we ever see a new BeoGram LP from Bang & Olufsen.
They seem to 'listen to' the latest trends in Struer - so why not?
The 'warmth' of a vinyl-lp played on the 'wood-warm' BL17 🌅
Tip: untill then, use the line-in of the Playmaker for a vintage BeoGram turntable.
Greetings Millemissen
There is a tv - and there is a BV
I think it beyond imagination that B&O will ever build their own turntable. I would suggest to them that if they wanted to go down this route, then buying in a suitable motor unit would be the sensible way, like the Beogram 3000 Thorens. I imagine however that they will either merely come up with a recommendation of a third party or do nothing at all!
Peter
Is vinyl really coming "back", it was un the up a few years ago, but IMHO it has slowed down?
Vinyl is cool and all, but not very practical, and it's a very limited novelty thing.
Vinyl is also a format that gets worn, meaning it will sound worse after years of use. How many vinyl records haven't been ruined by improper arm weights and destroyed needles?
B&O wouldn't make a beogram anymore. Or on the other hand, looking at the nonsense that has been coming out lately, who knows!
Too long to list....
Yes Vinyl Record sales are at a 10 year high.
Figures from the British Phonographic Industry (BPI) show almost 550,000 LPs have been sold so far in 2013 and account for approx 0.7% of the market and the major growth has been in the under 25 year old segment.
I mainly play 180 gram vinyl and the sound quality is impeccable compared to CD or download (Beo 7000 paired with Pentas).
Now this is an area B&O could play in and use their strengths.
we tend to forget there is more to design than designing.
Mark,
You said the key number, why it makes no sense to into vinyl, 0,7%.There is absolutely no money in 0,7% of the market. B&O should right now try and get into the other 99,3% of the market to even survive.
Beaker,
Ofcourse B&O's market share is low, probably a lot less than 0,7%, but what do you think it would be, if they were to concentrate on 0,7% of the market instead of 99,3%...?
They would be long dead as a beogram manufacturer. Just the cost of taking up a turntable production that has been closed for... 20-25 years would be something I doubt they could bare right now.
I'm not signing that LP users would be better off financially... Why do you think that? If the largest growth of vinyl is in the under 25 YO demographic, (as per the article) it's hardly high income. The ones I know that still use vinyl, are those who love to "re-use" old stuff, (not well off) and hifi-nuts who also buy a lot of snake oil. Some are well off, others eat macaroni's 7 days a week to support their expensive hi-fi hobby. Very few of these would even look at B&O as an alternative.
Half a million vinyl plates sold a year is not a "big part of the market".
What I can think is true is that a vinyl user is often a very keen music enthusiast, and likes to buy new albums. Especially since Vinyl is a bit of a hobby. Say I was to get the vinyl boom, I'd probably buy 100 if not more LP's within a few months.
Thing is though with "novelties", they usually die out. Last vinyl boom was in 2002? 2003?
Saying B&O should make a Beogram is like saying Sony should start producing mini-discs or the C-casette walkman again.
What B&O could do is develop a later version of the tangential turntable but with an electronic laser cartridge that could 'read' the vinyl grooves without actually making contact with the vinyl. That would open up a massive market for them.
Graham
Well you can look on B&O's market share like you said, but I don't look at it like that.
B&O manufacture 3 main groups of products.
Music players
Speakers
TV's
You are right, they are not for everyone, as for example a Samsung TV is.
However, since they manufacture TV's, their TV's are in the TV segment. As are the Music players in the music player segment (where also Vinyl players, iPods etc. belong). Speakers, means they are in the speaker segment.
If you combine all these three main segments, you probably have 99,3% of the market. There's always the POTENTIAL of someone buying a B&O TV over a Sony.
There's a very slim chance anyone buying a Beogram over a CD player or Beosystem 5.
B&O better not go back to turntables;
1. the brand is not and will not be taken seriously by the small specialist hardcore vinyl-users.
2. <25 year olds won't by a B&O premium priced turntable.
3. to many hard-to-beat specialist firms that cover that specific marked niche
jc: B&O better not go back to turntables; 1. the brand is not and will not be taken seriously by the small specialist hardcore vinyl-users. 2. <25 year olds won't by a B&O premium priced turntable. 3. to many hard-to-beat specialist firms that cover that specific marked niche
You are absolutely right.
UK's physical and download market share in 2012 was approx £3.5bn so Vinyl sales would be 0.7% of that. (I cannot find world figures).
The question is when do you ride the wave, this is not new territory like MP3 players or mobile phones, record decks are planted in the B&O DNA. I also felt sad they did not capture the recent on-ear headphone market craze.
Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't but small companies have the flexibility and speed to market over the big boys.
It's good to read these posts as it shows we are all passionate about one subject
Mark, one of B&O biggest problem is their... Slowness to react. They're a pretty big company, even if they are small compared to Samsung.
B&O can't move fast. It's never been in their "DNA". There's plenty of vinyl players out there, with strong names such as Thorens. B&O can't compete with these. If the Vinyl markets biggest grower is under 25YO, they don't even know what B&O is. They buy whatever Dr Dre (or gaga) is using. The Vinyl players are being sold are cheap. (Except for the high-end stuff, but those guys never left the format)
0,7% of 3,5 billion is a lot of money, but you need to calculate possible sales like this:
OK, so Vinyl has 0,7% of the market. Let's say B&O would have 0,7% of the market (AUDIO/VIDEO) They probably have a lot less!
Meaning B&O has a 0,7% of total world markets, they would have 0,7% of the 0,7% the vinyl market. This would equate to a market share (global) of 0,000049%.
3,5 billion times 0,7% is 24.5 million. A lot of money, but still very little money. (if sales of vinyl appliances would be equal to sales of vinyl records) B&O would then have 0,7% of this market share, or sales of 171,500 pounds.
I hope I make sense to you guys, but I'm just trying to show, how ridiculously small the Vinyl business is. Money is elsewhere.
I do like vinyl but I don't think B&O is going to go down that path. Many AV manufacturers now offer a turntables such as Marantz and McIntosh but they are expensive. If B&O were to offer a turntable resembling anything like past Beograms, they would be at least $5000 or more. In addition, the new products from B&O are essentially digital....wireless speakers and ethernet connections through a router. There is nothing wrong with digital products but vinyl is analog. I would like the ability to play higher resolution audio digital files.
Retro is fine but ultimately tastes will change. Everyone switched to CDs in the 80s and to digital download music in the late 90s. I am now listening to music stored in a digital cloud.
I expect the Beosystem 4 will be my new media player.
I forgot to mention a surprising fact about much of the new vinyl including reissues of classics like the original Beatles LPs. They are sourced digitally.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-123
A quote from the Stereophile article.
'Not only that, but the recent and richly ballyhooed reissues of the Beatles albums on LP—sold singly or as The Beatles Stereo Vinyl Box Set (Apple AEMI 33809)—were all mastered not from the original analog master tapes but from 24-bit/44.1kHz digital copies (footnote 2) thereof (a revelation that comes courtesy of my friend and colleague Michael Fremer, who broke the story on AnalogPlanet.com).'
'
Bayerishe you do make sense so do not worry, this is why I enjoy this forum.
Vinyl is great, and has caught on Big with a younger crowd, but it is just a small fraction of the total market.
However, B&O has never been a total market brand. Should the company develop a vinyl player? I don't know, and am not representative. I have thousands of vinyl records, and five Beograms, as well as a totally refurbished Garrard 301 (and a similarly refurbished Beogram 3000 TD124).
What I do know, is that most of the cool bands followed by younger people are releasing vinyl, some even releasing reel to reel (the latter a very low count).
There's a potential signal effect for B&O in vinyl, but I don't think they have the resources for the kind of effort they put into Bg4000 and Bg8000.
These players are much sought after by youngsters, though.
soundproof: These players are much sought after by youngsters, though.
What's this about vinyl "coming back"? For some of us, it never went away!
linder: Many AV manufacturers now offer a turntables such as Marantz and McIntosh but they are expensive.
Ironically, both of the items you mention there are basically re-badged/tweaked Clearaudio designs. As far as I know, the only "old hi-fi name" that has a turntable totally of their own design currently on sale is Luxman with the PD-171
AdamS: Ironically, both of the items you mention there are basically re-badged/tweaked Clearaudio designs. As far as I know, the only "old hi-fi name" that has a turntable totally of their own design currently on sale is Luxman with the PD-171
Oh, I tought that Luxman buys them from Micro Seiki
blah-blah and photographs as needed
Micro Seiki closed in 2001 so they have nothing to do with the PD-171.
Back in the 1980s however, Luxman's decks were mostly designed as joint ventures between themselves and Micro Seiki but were largely made in-house by Luxman, as i understand it.
AdamS: Micro Seiki closed in 2001 so they have nothing to do with the PD-171. Back in the 1980s however, Luxman's decks were mostly designed as joint ventures between themselves and Micro Seiki but were largely made in-house by Luxman, as i understand it.
aaa, do I live in past....
ouverture:I had one chap call me back a week or so later, saying the Beosystem 5000 he bought from me sounded just as good as his Project Turntable and headphone amp that cost him over £2000, mind you this was the Beogram 5000 radial with an MMC2 cartridge 😎
I have BG 2404, BG 5000, BG TX2, all with MMC4, the 5000 stack is my favorite, the BG 5000 on any of my BMs sounds better than any of the other BGs, even the BG 2404 comes up short, when connected to BM 2400, and the 2404 was made for BM 2400.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
For Danes only. or let Google translate. Vinyl fair in my hometown
I'd love to see a new BeoGram.
jc: B&O better not go back to turntables; 1. the brand is not and will not be taken seriously by the small specialist hardcore vinyl-users.
I'm one of those and I take B&O seriously.
jc: 2. <25 year olds won't by a B&O premium priced turntable.
I would if I could afford it! There's the problem, I guess...
August: I'd love to see a new BeoGram. jc: B&O better not go back to turntables; 1. the brand is not and will not be taken seriously by the small specialist hardcore vinyl-users. I'm one of those and I take B&O seriously. jc: 2. <25 year olds won't by a B&O premium priced turntable. I would if I could afford it! There's the problem, I guess...
Um, take a example, ProJect, it isn't too expencive, but still not bad at all, so why Beogram woldn't fit in for ex. BeoPlay series?
B&O should not target to "high-end" users, but rather to "hip" users, in that way they moight get future fans.