ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I've noticed that over time the optical laser mechanism dies out . For a B&O system that is so expensive I think that this shouldn't happen...my friend has a technics micro system from 1999 and the cd works perfectly. Last year the cd drive on my beosound 1 died. I took it to B&O and had a new one built in. The price was 268 euros. I never even asked if it was only a small part that needed to be fixed . Well they changed the whole mechanism and it's quite large. Anyway I was told that it died because of dust. Yet the instruction manual inside had said that cd cleaners shouldn't be used go figure. The new cd that was installed is Quicker and less noisy when tracks are changed etc.. I've heard of the laser dying out on other systems too like the beosound 3200 and 9000 as well. Maybe it's because the whole mechanism is totally open. Anyway I use a simple cd cleaner with bristles now. But still this shouldn't happen and I'm sure B&O make money when something dies out and there is no warranty anymore.
It really varies a lot.
Some Systems are over 20 years and no problems. B&O isn't manufacturing the CD mechanism, it's Philips.
Too long to list....
I don't have an answer but i share the disappointment. I have a BS9000 and the laser became problematic after only 4 years of infrequent use. I also expected a better build quality, and to be frank I waited many years to make another investment in B&O with the fear of being stuck with another issue.
BV11-55, BS9000, BL1, BL19, Transmitter 1, Beo4, Beocom 6000, BeoTalk1 200, Sennheiser HD600, McIntosh MHA100
I had a 9000MKIII at some point.
The only thing wrong was the dust on the inside of the glass, Wipe that of carefully and it was working 100%. The former owner used it for radio.
My 1980's CDX is Phillips and has not been babied in its life however the lazer is still going strong.
rxcohen: I don't have an answer but i share the disappointment. I have a BS9000 and the laser became problematic after only 4 years of infrequent use. I also expected a better build quality, and to be frank I waited many years to make another investment in B&O with the fear of being stuck with another issue.
It has a Philips laser, probably quite standart, is there any better nowdays, I dont know, I dont belive. There is many brands claiming to be "hi-end", "pro" or whatever, but when looked inside, mechanics are all the same. I have one "high-end" player, but what it has, maybe little better electronisc any overall built, but cd-mech, std philips CDM12.x
blah-blah and photographs as needed
Some capacitor types dry out with age, pretty much regardless of use.The repairshop needs to order and replace the whole module when a capacitor dies because theydon't have the skills (or time or can't be bothered) to diagnose and repair at component level.
Martin
I'm not complaining it died after 7 years of use I guess that's not so bad.
but almost 300 euros for a philips cd drive is too much
chris: I'm not complaining it died after 7 years of use I guess that's not so bad. but almost 300 euros for a philips cd drive is too much
You're right - it IS too much...But that is if you buy it from B&O. You can find those CD drives for 20 euros or less on the net.
But - as 'Dillen' wrote above:
Often it's not the laser that is dead - but just some capacitors that need to be changed. But almost any B&O shop will change the whole drive, because it's the easiest thing to do. They are too lazy - or they simply don't have the skills to change capacitors. Today most repair-shops are used to change modules, instead of doing a little soldering...
CD mechanisms is not equal to CD mechanism :-)Sony and Philips where the two Companies that invented the CD and so you'll guess there are not many manufactures for those CD mechanisms.I guess it is a problem with B&O devices that the laser is exposed and in case of the Beosound Overture, 3000, 3200 etc. there is the problem that - for design terms - they choosed to install the CD drive with the laser mounted vertically. I guess the laser sled would survive much longer if it was mounted vertically - but this wouldn't look as symmetric as it does now.I can NOT understand the bad talking about Philips drives and highend companies using them: There are CDM-series (this is the "name" of the laser-mechanisms) which are simply state-of-the-art and that's why company X chooses the drive (e.g. the CDM-2 family of drives).Dying lasers are a problem of REAL highend machines, too, like e.g the Sony CDP-XA50ES and because of the proprietary developed mechanisms it is MUCH MUCH harder to get a replacement/repair kit for those machines than for B&O that uses cheap standard mechanisms.If you are fit enough with a soldering iron and electronics, you can get the service manual for your device here on Beoworld, have a look what drive is installed in your Beosound/Beocenter, order the drive from any electonics supplier and replace it yourself.
Well that's a lot of interesting information.
I was so mad when I went to collect my beosound 1 because they had made a really big scratch on the white cover grille I didn't say anything I was so mad.
TWG:B&O that uses cheap standard mechanisms
That´s not how I would put it. B&O have used CDM1, CDM2, CDM4, CDM12 ind,CDPRO, CDPRO2, and CDPRO2LF. All with casted aluminium chassis regarded as top notch and HIGH END.
//Bo.A long list...
BO: TWG:B&O that uses cheap standard mechanisms That´s not how I would put it. B&O have used CDM1, CDM2, CDM4, CDM12 ind,CDPRO, CDPRO2, and CDPRO2LF. All with casted aluminium chassis regarded as top notch and HIGH END.
still, how can they judge laserdiode itself? If you know semiconductor manufacturing process, think example Intel, they dont do factory and start to make ic's just like that, rather if they are lucky manufacture process works right and then they copy that process as good as possible to other factories.
So I think it is not possible to know for sure that lasers are "top notch and HIGH END", even in aluchassis. They only can take them from good known factory, but is it allways good?
It seems to be most often the electronics failing instead of the laser unit itself.
Over the years I had to replace the full cd drive of my beocenter9500, beosound 9000, 2500 and 4000.All had failed electronic boards, but all the laser units themselves where fully operational. Costly as nobody wanted to repair but only replace the full unit. I do not possess the full workshop and not enough skills to fully check every cap or IC on a motherboard in order to temp a repair myself.
My old cd50 unit still works without a hitch. I had the motor checked and lubed last year, but that was preventive instead of a repair.
Also the fact that philips kept making design changes (can't really call it improvements!) to its CDM range over the years creates artificial scarcity it seems.These things are mostly commodities now, assembly chain built. Even the high-end ones and should NOT cost the prices they ask for them. I also seems the B&O drives motherboards are slightly different or customized from the 'of the shelf' replacement drives. I did try it myself once without success.
Orava:So I think it is not possible to know for sure that lasers are "top notch and HIGH END", even in aluchassis. They only can take them from good known factory, but is it allways good?
Nowadays Philips don´t make them any more. Its all made in China by others.
BO: Orava:So I think it is not possible to know for sure that lasers are "top notch and HIGH END", even in aluchassis. They only can take them from good known factory, but is it allways good? Nowadays Philips don´t make them any more. Its all made in China by others.
And thats why all of them dont last.... Inevitably it makes you think that it is in purpose.
Well actually, Philips makes indeed the CdPro modules, but the quality control for B&O is much higher than the regular ones that Philips makes for others.
And indeed the cdpro modules are just replaced by new ones.
I still have the original cdm4 in my beosystem 2500. And used it every day without problems
kronzilla:I still have the original cdm4 in my beosystem 2500.
The CDM4 Laser is almost indestructible. What can and will happen is that you will have to recap the servo board.
The CDM4 is a very good unit which uses the classic well sounding TDA1541 DAC chip.
Raeuber:Don't tell me something about high quality of B&O products. B&O is a lifestyle and a design company!
I totally agree, design and lifestyle and a high grade of use of materials but imho the inner is just a piece of crap!
Brengen & Ophalen
Hmm i had a BC9000 from 1988 sold it 3 years ago to a friend and it still work every day playing CDs and have newer been repaired. People keep the B&O equipment so eventually you will see repair needs. Most other stuff is replaced after few years before eg. capacitor wear out
Raeuber:I have a Beosound 9000 since 1998 and CD laser had been replaced 4 times during these 15 years. Total costs more than 1500 EUR. This is only acceptable because I love the design of BS 9000. In 1998 I gave my 5 years old CD player from Sony to my sister. It works fine until today. My wife has a cheap CD player from JVC in her kitchen for more than 10 years without any problems. Don't tell me something about high quality of B&O products. B&O is a lifestyle and a design company! Greets Räuber
In 1998 I gave my 5 years old CD player from Sony to my sister. It works fine until today.
My wife has a cheap CD player from JVC in her kitchen for more than 10 years without any problems.
Don't tell me something about high quality of B&O products. B&O is a lifestyle and a design company!
Greets
Räuber
I think the repairs are meant to generate some revenue for B&O.
Strange way of thinking. It's quite the opposite...
wonderfulelectric: I think the repairs are meant to generate some revenue for B&O.
I think nowdays people are not very keen to make repairs, so rather it generates bad reputation.
DoubleU: Strange way of thinking. It's quite the opposite...
Absolutely. When you offer a 3 year warranty on electronics, you are banking on your product being good enough to never need repair.
Most people lose their warranties? At least I did and so...
Either that or the R&D team is not up to par.
Come on people when you pay 3000 euros for a b&o system it should never need any kind of repair.
My Beosound 8 had three repairs.
Anyway now that there really isn't a need for docking or moving mechanisms of any kind for future products, I think the QC problem pretty much resolved itself.
You can always find examples like that - with any brand...
I have a BC 9500 that's fully functional after 20 years -and a Beogram CD 3300 that's even older -still working.
My sister once bought a quite expensive Technics CD player that 'died' after 4 years...
Anyway - as mentioned many times before. It's mostly a capacitor problem - not a dead laser.
- and those old Philips mechs, that B&O and lots of other companies used back then, were some of the best. You can read more about them here:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/philips-CDM.html
Don't tell me about poor build quality of older B&O equipment.Lots of Beoworld members have B&O equipment thats 20-30-40 years old.
chris: Come on people when you pay 3000 euros for a b&o system it should never need any kind of repair.
How will you define 'never'?
Nothing lasts forever - especially not electronics.
The question is, if it is worth repairing.
Steffen: Anyway - as mentioned many times before. It's mostly a capacitor problem - not a dead laser.
Where did you get that info? If somebody says that electronics is failing and not the laser doesn’t mean it is common. I think most people who own/owned a BS9000 been there, including me. If it was just a capacitor, there would be no need to replace the mechanics. Capacitors don’t wear out in 4 years. The laser in a BS9000 does if your unlucky like Raeuber was. 4 replacements in 15 year is hard to accept with answers like ’’nothing last forever’’. The DVD1 was also not the player that had the best laser.
Steffen: Don't tell me about poor build quality of older B&O equipment.Lots of Beoworld members have B&O equipment thats 20-30-40 years old.
Well, those days are over. You cannot simply compare electronics in those days with equipment nowadays. All the defective components from then are still available and can simply be replaced. Electronics nowadays have a way shorter life span. There is no repairing at component-level anymore. Too time consuming, lead-free soldering, smd. Manufactures of chips or pcb’s do not make the same components for decades. They move on. Further, you have to deal with software, programming, dated technology, etc. With that said, you can imagine it’s impossible to service the new stuff for the next 20 years. Not even close to 10.
Yes the BS9000 is very high maintenance. I hope they will one day do a super edgy version where every disk is now replaced with screens displaying different cover arts whereby honoring a bygone era.
DoubleU:Where did you get that info? If somebody says that electronics is failing and not the laser doesn’t mean it is common.
I have the info from several sources - e.g. member (Moderator) 'dillen' here on Beoworld, who has repaired LOTS of older B&O CD players.He has said several times that he has never seen a 'dead' laser on those older Philips mechs. (Not even on the 'newer' Ouverture, 3200 etc.)You could also take a look at the link in my post above, talking about the 'everlasting' laser (well -offcourse it's not everlasting - longlasting will be a better word) - and several other places on the net you can find info, if you care to look.
Offcourse there will be some defective, burnt out lasers now and then. But allow me to turn your postulate around:
If somebody says the laser is failing and not the electronics doesn't mean it's common.
DoubleU:Well, those days are over. You cannot simply compare electronics in those days with equipment nowadays.
I agree that electronics nowadays is not build to have a long life - but I was mostly responding to those who were complaining about B&O being crap -even many years back.It is even possible to repair 'newer' systems like the Ouverture, 3200 etc. even though they have SMD components - but B&O repair shops has never bothered to repair those. They just changed the whole CD-mech.
And I was responding to the BS9000. You can’t ignore the fact this player has more problems than others. If a disc does not spin up, most likely there is to much dust build up or the laser is dying. Leaking capacitors are more common for the older models.
Exactly, shame on you B&O!
You can't blame B&O for the build quality of the laser pickup elements.
Who could predict that those elements would last less longer? They are depending on what Philips back then could supply them, like the older more reliable CDM4.
Faults are more cracked solderjoints at the laser's flex, I did repair a VAM1255 with special glasses, flux and a soldering iron with the smallest tip.
So crappy laserunits then inside of a B&O product?
DoubleU: Leaking capacitors are more common for the older models.
Leaking capacitors are more common for the older models.
That's not my experience when it comes to the servo boards.The capacitors in the older boards tend to dry out rather than leak.No servo circuit related capacitors leak more than the newer SMD ones.They bulge and eventually pop open and leak.When replacing you will often find black traces and remains of gunk where the caps sat on the board.
I have replaced only very few laser blocks in my time but I don't do many of the newer things.I have replaced one laser in a Beosound 9000 once, though, but I seem to remember it was becauseof physical damage rather than use or wear.