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This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I am finally in a position to have my ailing Beomasters repaired, but find myself in unfamiliar territory, but suffice to say this has been one heck of an education…. however I need a bit more from you guys.
I have checked out all sorts of shops covering virtually most of North America, and skipping those who weren’t interested for an assortment of unrelated reasons (excuses) here is what I’ve heard.
One shop flatly told me my Beomaster 2400 wasn’t much of an amplifier and clearly was not worth rebuilding. Anyone agree with that, let me know? I think this is BS.
To cut to the chase I have found two recommended shops who are anxious to restore my amplifiers and who appear to be excellent choices. So the question is, which one?
So here is my quandary. Out of the two promising shops one stated that the Beomaster 2400 was far and away a better amplifier than the Beomaster 4500. Any comments?
Since my BM 4500 powers up they say that means the computer works and the repair should not be expensive. They went on to say the 4500 was a lot simpler than the 2400 with its IC’s that do not fail and that the 4500 has LED’s in place of the light bulbs on the 2400 which do not need replacement.
Any disagreement so far?
The shop owner continues that “due to the age of your BM 2400, it is a ticking time bomb that is going to fail.” I doubt anyone would care to argue with that, although the little guy is still hanging in there.
This shop wants to replace the expected transistors and capacitors throughout including the power supply, but in addition insists that the bass, treble, and balance pots MUST be rebuilt and wishes to do so.
Personally I believe this shop, but I really would like to hear from you guys before I commit serious money to rebuild my Beomaster 2400.
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
The best amp is the one you like best, Jeff.
The 1900-2400 receivers are good and of course worth repairing. These are old school discrete amplifiers.
The 4500 uses Sanken STK modules I think, but these can sound good too.
That pots must be cleaned, and therefore dismantled, does make sense.
Jacques
Merci Jacques, as always! And Merry Christmas! Jeff
Merci Jacques, as always! And Merry Christmas!
Hi Geoff
I remember a few people telling me the older directly coupled amplifiers have a sweeter sound in some instances than the newer chip based amplifiers. This all depends on the speakers you are powering. My Beomaster 1900 (almost the same as your 2400) powers my S45-2's with ease, however it does struggle a little with the S75's which are a little more demanding of power.
A 2400 powering large speakers at mid to high volume is likely to sound not as good as a 4500 powering large speakers at mid to high volume. So I would have a think about the speakers you intend to run and their impedance and make my decision based on that.
When my technician friend repaired my BM1900 he said he was quite amused at the parts inside, nothing spectacular by any means, however once connected to some S45-2's he said he was amazed that the sum of the components in the amp produced such a sound.
Drew
That's right: my Beomaster 1900-2 and my S45-2 are a match made in heaven.
Merry Xmas to you too, Jeff, and to everybody else of course!
I refurbished my BM 2400 changed Caps, lamps, trimmers and D50 rectifier.The 0D1 rectifier was changed for a 6 Amp type (bigger) slide poti´s cleaned and repaired, also the big caps C7/8 was changed. What I forgot was the caps in the remote receiver. After half a year the BM started jumping channels, that turned out to be a short from a TR to chassis, my failure, not checking properly the mounting washers.
The BM has now been playing without problems for aprox. 2 years. I have a BG 2404 to match and love the design.
As for your shipping cost. If you can slip over the boarder to the US, and ship from there, you should get it cheaper.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Andrew: Hi Geoff I remember a few people telling me the older directly coupled amplifiers have a sweeter sound in some instances than the newer chip based amplifiers. This all depends on the speakers you are powering. My Beomaster 1900 (almost the same as your 2400) powers my S45-2's with ease, however it does struggle a little with the S75's which are a little more demanding of power. A 2400 powering large speakers at mid to high volume is likely to sound not as good as a 4500 powering large speakers at mid to high volume. So I would have a think about the speakers you intend to run and their impedance and make my decision based on that. When my technician friend repaired my BM1900 he said he was quite amused at the parts inside, nothing spectacular by any means, however once connected to some S45-2's he said he was amazed that the sum of the components in the amp produced such a sound. Drew
Hi Drew,
This little Beomaster 2400 used to power Linn Isobaric speakers as well as McIntosh ML-2’s and it did so without the slightest hint of difficulty….. other than it got pretty hot.
Today however it is mated to a particularly nice pair of S-45.2 speakers.
The only amplifier I actually saw struggling was my Beomaster 4500 powering those God forsaken MC 120.2 speakers of mine…. kind of ran out of steam. However that was entirely the fault of the speaker, not the amplifier, or even the combination.
Odd that your technician was unimpressed by the insides of your 1900, as one of the many people I spoke with in regard to the 2400 told me “it wasn’t much, but sounded a lot better than it should.”
More with less, sounds good to me.
I will admit that super trooper than this 2400 has been, including two full resurrections, it has always been my least favourite amplifier doing nothing wrong, butt then again, nothing special.
I am hoping my opinion will change after it is rebuilt, assuming I choose the right shop!
Søren Mexico: I refurbished my BM 2400 changed Caps, lamps, trimmers and D50 rectifier.The 0D1 rectifier was changed for a 6 Amp type (bigger) slide poti´s cleaned and repaired, also the big caps C7/8 was changed. What I forgot was the caps in the remote receiver. After half a year the BM started jumping channels, that turned out to be a short from a TR to chassis, my failure, not checking properly the mounting washers. The BM has now been playing without problems for aprox. 2 years. I have a BG 2404 to match and love the design. As for your shipping cost. If you can slip over the boarder to the US, and ship from there, you should get it cheaper.
Hi Søren,
As you know the only thing that stopped me in my tracks vis-à-vis repairing my various amplifiers was the impossible shipping charges to Denmark and back. I haven’t checked it lately but it was $400 one way with my Beogram 4000. Then Danish Customs adds duty regardless of the fact that the item is entering the country for repair and you know the rest.
Canada Post deserves a devious award for their web site’s rate section. You fill in all the fields and they give you ONE price and one price only. In this case $270.02. Well that was a whole lot better than $400, but still added to the cost of the repairs and we are talking real money.
However out of sheer stubbornness I went back for another look at the site and after viewing every conceivable bit of information: post office locations, hours, and greetings without end….. SURPRISE they have five more levels of service at different rates at the very bottom of the page.
The best rate is $42….. NOW THAT’S MORE LIKE IT!
The remaining trick is for me to choose the right shop. Both shops under consideration were your suggestions, by the way. I liked them both, but am leaning towards the one that provided all the details….. and I am trying to check with you guys to see if what they told me was correct.
Choosing a repair shop from a distance is really no fun.
Even in person it is no picnic. I took my Beogram 8000 to a shop in St. Petersburg before moving here and they mangled it, went weeks after the promise date, and then refused to answer their telephone. When I picked it up, not one word was spoken; the guy just slammed the 8000 down on the counter with an N/C invoice.
The supposedly best shop here in Victoria then took a shot at it….. couldn’t fix it, but at least didn’t damage it any further. That dirty deed was left to a shop in Vancouver…. wasn’t much to work with after that.
So I am trying to make an intelligent choice. All my past bad experiences aside, I doubt I can really go wrong with either choice. We’ll see after the holidays.
Piaf: This shop wants to replace the expected transistors and capacitors throughout including the power supply, but in addition insists that the bass, treble, and balance pots MUST be rebuilt and wishes to do so.
This is what Benny ended up doing with my BM1900 about a year and a half ago. It was about a $300 job, IIRC. He threw in new trim pieces and the piece is flawless. I love the BM1900. It is probably my favorite receiver.
I can't speak to the BM4500. Never seen one in the flesh, though I do own the BC4500 and I think that's an outstanding piece as well.
Piaf:Choosing a repair shop from a distance is really no fun.
As Rich had good experiences with Benny Armina, why not there. I know Rich got several items repaired there.
Søren Mexico: Piaf:Choosing a repair shop from a distance is really no fun. As Rich had good experiences with Benny Armina, why not there. I know Rich got several items repaired there.
Burantek has used him as well. Benny may have a bit of a backlog right now, though, as he is just getting back to work after surgery. Worth an email to him anyway.
Rich: Søren Mexico: Piaf:Choosing a repair shop from a distance is really no fun. As Rich had good experiences with Benny Armina, why not there. I know Rich got several items repaired there. Burantek has used him as well. Benny may have a bit of a backlog right now, though, as he is just getting back to work after surgery. Worth an email to him anyway.
Hi Rich and Søren,
I believe you answered my question on several levels. Thank you.
I was interested to see what members thought of the BM 2400 (series) as compared to the BM 4500 with its IC’s. One shop saying the BM 2400 is superior while another seemingly respectable shop saying they weren’t much and weren’t worth repairing.
More importantly, I should have been more direct in asking if the pots not only needed cleaning BUT rebuilding as well? Personally it sounds like a good idea to me but I am no tech. So you guys agree that rebuilding these pots is probably necessary and should be done? Right?
I only ask out of caution as these sliders “appear” to work flawlessly with no scratches, hiss, or noise of any kind. No cut-out either.
I hope my potentially unwarranted concerns can be forgiven considering the truly unfortunate experiences I have had with shops: poor, terrible, and one unforgivable.
Lastly, I thought it best to exercise “discretion is the better part of valor,” not mentioning any names, but unless I hear differently from you guys (which I am sure I won’t) then the shop I am checking and which will get my business is Benny’s, who strikes me as a honorable guy and a knowledgeable one as well.
I'm not entirely sure what "rebuilding" means in this case.
To clean the pots, which certainly needs to be done, they have to be disassembled and then cleaned. Then put back together. However, before putting them back together it probably is a good idea (also as per Dillen's advice) to add some Locktite to the plastic things that hold the copper legs as this plastic is now brittle and will break at some point or another (I have two 1900's and both had broken pots in this way).
All I'm saying is: Ask what precisely "rebuilding" means.
The fact that the shop recognizes that the pots are a problem (which is quite alright after 35 years of operation) is probably a good sign. It should mean they know at least something about this receiver.
/ Johan
EDIT: Oh, this was the very shop that was recommended to you by Søren and Rich. Then I'm sure you'll be alright.
Johan: I'm not entirely sure what "rebuilding" means in this case. To clean the pots, which certainly needs to be done, they have to be disassembled and then cleaned. Then put back together. However, before putting them back together it probably is a good idea (also as per Dillen's advice) to add some Locktite to the plastic things that hold the copper legs as this plastic is now brittle and will break at some point or another (I have two 1900's and both had broken pots in this way). All I'm saying is: Ask what precisely "rebuilding" means. The fact that the shop recognizes that the pots are a problem (which is quite alright after 35 years of operation) is probably a good sign. It should mean they know at least something about this receiver. / Johan EDIT: Oh, this was the very shop that was recommended to you by Søren and Rich. Then I'm sure you'll be alright.
Hi Johan,
In reply to your question, Benny says, “The bass, treble balance pots are no longer available and they need to be rebuilt with shop produced spare parts. (I am the only one who can do that as far as I know.”
My confidence level is pretty much maxed out. There are just too many people saying very positive things about this gentleman for there to be a likely problem.
Frankly I have been through too much not to have asked so many questions, but I asked, was told, and I have heard.
Thank you everyone!!
Piaf: In reply to your question, Benny says, “The bass, treble balance pots are no longer available and they need to be rebuilt with shop produced spare parts. (I am the only one who can do that as far as I know.”
That's really cool! Maybe I should send them one of mine that is broken beyond glueing...
Piaf: More importantly, I should have been more direct in asking if the pots not only needed cleaning BUT rebuilding as well? Personally it sounds like a good idea to me but I am no tech. So you guys agree that rebuilding these pots is probably necessary and should be done? Right? I only ask out of caution as these sliders “appear” to work flawlessly with no scratches, hiss, or noise of any kind. No cut-out either.
First off, no one can really tell what's wrong with your piece until it's on their work bench. Having said that, my BM1900 needed the electrical circuits of the bass and treble controls rebuilt. It wasn't a mechanical breakdown, clean-up, and put back together type of repair.
Johan: Piaf: In reply to your question, Benny says, “The bass, treble balance pots are no longer available and they need to be rebuilt with shop produced spare parts. (I am the only one who can do that as far as I know.” That's really cool! Maybe I should send them one of mine that is broken beyond glueing... / Johan
I am sure Benny could help you out.
That said you have Martin very close to you in Denmark whom I am sure could take care of your broken piece.
Rich: Piaf: More importantly, I should have been more direct in asking if the pots not only needed cleaning BUT rebuilding as well? Personally it sounds like a good idea to me but I am no tech. So you guys agree that rebuilding these pots is probably necessary and should be done? Right? I only ask out of caution as these sliders “appear” to work flawlessly with no scratches, hiss, or noise of any kind. No cut-out either. First off, no one can really tell what's wrong with your piece until it's on their work bench. Having said that, my BM1900 needed the electrical circuits of the bass and treble controls rebuilt. It wasn't a mechanical breakdown, clean-up, and put back together type of repair.
Hi Rich,
Long distance repairs are always tricky and usually inaccurate. As such you are absolutely correct; Benny won’t know what is really wrong with my BM 2400 until it is opened up and on his bench.
However not being a proper tech and without so much as opening up my BM 2400 I can tell you with a great deal of certainty that what he will find is a collection of burned and or cooked transistors, resistors, and capacitors.
The condition of the pots is an educated assumption based entirely on age. Just guessing my bass, treble, and balance controls all work beautifully because they have never been messed with, but from what I hear, take them apart and they fall to pieces.
Yep, I am ready to have this BM 2400 put back into proper condition, but that will have to wait until I get the BM 4500 repaired. Not much of a choice here, the BM 4500 doesn’t work, the BM 2400 still does.
And thanks for the recommendation. I am confident that we will develope a mutually solid business relationship.
Rich: Piaf: This shop wants to replace the expected transistors and capacitors throughout including the power supply, but in addition insists that the bass, treble, and balance pots MUST be rebuilt and wishes to do so. This is what Benny ended up doing with my BM1900 about a year and a half ago. It was about a $300 job, IIRC. He threw in new trim pieces and the piece is flawless. I love the BM1900. It is probably my favorite receiver. I can't speak to the BM4500. Never seen one in the flesh, though I do own the BC4500 and I think that's an outstanding piece as well.
Since your BM 1900 is a close relative of my “determined and just won’t quit” BM 2400, I’d like to ask what it is that you like so much?
I look forward to your response!
Now come to think of it, as I recall you said your BM 2400 was your favourite receiver, is this still true as compared to your newly refurbished BM 4400?
If so what is it that you find so special?
Why do I inquire? I thought you’d never ask, because it is nearly Christmas and my Christmas present this year is getting my two Beomaster rebuilt by Benny. I am excited as a kid Christmas Day….. maybe more so.
I always found my BM 2400 a never complaining workhorse, cheerfully doing whatever I asked of it, however unreasonable (like running 3 power-hungry speakers at once), but at the same time incredibly unremarkable.
Perhaps, as I am hoping, I never heard my BM 2400 in full spec and as such have something really great to look forward to. (We all need something to look forward to….)
So what is it that so appeals to you about your Beomaster 2400?