ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
moxxey: bayerische: For me national pride comes into the equation. And as with Moxxey's lights I feel ashamed that they're not made in Finland. I know Moxxey says he doesn't care, but I do, having grown up with the brand. Heck I live 200m from a private residence designed by Alvar Aalto. I didn't say I didn't care they *weren't* made in Finland. I said that if they are up to the quality and specification they are supposed to be, which Artek clearly thinks they are, then I "don't care" that they had "Made in China" on the box, now they have arrived. ie. I'm not sending them back for that reason :) I too thought they were Finnish. I too was surprised they have a big "Made in China" on the box. I can take a photo if you like, for your enjoyment? :)
bayerische: For me national pride comes into the equation. And as with Moxxey's lights I feel ashamed that they're not made in Finland. I know Moxxey says he doesn't care, but I do, having grown up with the brand. Heck I live 200m from a private residence designed by Alvar Aalto.
For me national pride comes into the equation. And as with Moxxey's lights I feel ashamed that they're not made in Finland. I know Moxxey says he doesn't care, but I do, having grown up with the brand. Heck I live 200m from a private residence designed by Alvar Aalto.
I didn't say I didn't care they *weren't* made in Finland. I said that if they are up to the quality and specification they are supposed to be, which Artek clearly thinks they are, then I "don't care" that they had "Made in China" on the box, now they have arrived. ie. I'm not sending them back for that reason :)
I too thought they were Finnish. I too was surprised they have a big "Made in China" on the box. I can take a photo if you like, for your enjoyment? :)
Please don't, I'll throw up!
Too long to list....
Of course as an animal we are largely the same, but culturally vastly different. There is a very good reason why so many middle eastern, and indeed far eastern airlines seek western pilots. And when you consider some of the people i bump into in the sim etc are meant to be their best and brightest! it make me a bit of a cultureist.
I'm very glad Apple have decided to build their new Imac Pro computers in America, and for no there reason other than daft charm. I'm happy to pay a bit more for it too,
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
bayerische: I see it, as "a way to survive" is often the result of the above. It's simpler to move the production to Mexico/China/Thailand etc... than to really get a grip of the real problems.
I see it, as "a way to survive" is often the result of the above. It's simpler to move the production to Mexico/China/Thailand etc... than to really get a grip of the real problems.
This.
In B&O's case - management should get hold of the 7CICs, read them carefully, apply them, sit back and enjoy the result.
bayerische: Jeff, you are very correct about the workforce is a huge part of the problem. People now a days think they should get "rich" from standing in a workshop... Well I wish life was that easy. Industry wages in Finland are off the chart, but at the same time we cannot only blame the workforce. A company's demise is not only/always due to expensive labour, there's poor management, as with the US airline industry there were too many competitors on the market, simply too diluted. Now you have the big 4 left, right? I see it, as "a way to survive" is often the result of the above. It's simpler to move the production to Mexico/China/Thailand etc... than to really get a grip of the real problems. I'd say the biggest losers is us. By us I mean whatever country an industry is leaving. I'm self employed, if I was suddenly to only have foreign workers that wouldn't speak a word Finnish or swedish I would fast be without customers. Not only the language would be the issue here, it would surely look suspicious on the whole for my customers.
Jeff, you are very correct about the workforce is a huge part of the problem. People now a days think they should get "rich" from standing in a workshop... Well I wish life was that easy.
Industry wages in Finland are off the chart, but at the same time we cannot only blame the workforce. A company's demise is not only/always due to expensive labour, there's poor management, as with the US airline industry there were too many competitors on the market, simply too diluted. Now you have the big 4 left, right?
I'd say the biggest losers is us. By us I mean whatever country an industry is leaving.
I'm self employed, if I was suddenly to only have foreign workers that wouldn't speak a word Finnish or swedish I would fast be without customers. Not only the language would be the issue here, it would surely look suspicious on the whole for my customers.
The companies aren't blameless in most cases, as I said about the US automakers, the unions are trying to finish what the companies started thru bad decisions. But the sense of entitlement in workers is amazing at times. I had a friend who was a transmission engineer for Ford in the US. They had a transmission that was used in two cars, but each car required a different fitting on the fluid line, if you put the wrong one in it wouldn't fail immediately, but would fail about 6 months into use, creating a warranty claim and a bad taste in the owners mouth. They kept having issues with the wrong part being put in, so they put a light to go on over the right parts bin to signal which one to grab depending on where the transmission was going. Still had the problem. They put an alarm that sounded if you stuck your hand in the wrong bin, same problem. Finally they had the whole line stop if you put your hand in the wrong bin, still a problem. They corralled the worker on that part of the line, and he said that he liked putting the wrong part in because it was easier. And the frakking union supported him and kept them from disciplining him or firing his lousy behind! The union's attitude was it was the engineers fault for designing two parts and expecting the worker to put them in according to his job description.
The airline example is one where it's hard to sort out who's more to blame, the airlines for having too many, or the government for keeping many of them from merging because of either antitrust issues or more often political payback for companies or unions who are donating to the politicos. Like we've all said here, the issues are complex and no single issue is the one and only problem.Sometimes you can't get a grip on the problems, sometimes moving production is your only recourse, sometimes it's simpler than finding the real root cause of the problem.
I'm retired now, but when I did work my job was fairly outsourcing proof as I needed to be a citizen to do it. That's about the only reason it wasn't outsourced probably.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
I have a simple question the UK has lost 4 million blue collar workers since the 1980 mostly skilled men the Chinese think we were mad given that huge skill base up
people keep saying job losses will happen to Bankers, Insurance workers office staff but it never really has
and it wont happen to Civil servants or local authority workers pity really wouldnt it of been better to have supported manufacturing industry long term rather than unproductive workers
We in Europe seem to subsidised Argriculture but rarely Manufacturing could you see Denmark allowing Brazilian Bacon in it will always protect that interest but loads of danish companies have potty high costs to pay its amazing thay pull above there weight like scanspeak Dali B&O etc
Just my rant on how things have gone
MGBGTV8: I have a simple question the UK has lost 4 million blue collar workers since the 1980 mostly skilled men the Chinese think we were mad given that huge skill base up people keep saying job losses will happen to Bankers, Insurance workers office staff but it never really has and it wont happen to Civil servants or local authority workers pity really wouldnt it of been better to have supported manufacturing industry long term rather than unproductive workers We in Europe seem to subsidised Argriculture but rarely Manufacturing could you see Denmark allowing Brazilian Bacon in it will always protect that interest but loads of danish companies have potty high costs to pay its amazing thay pull above there weight like scanspeak Dali B&O etc Just my rant on how things have gone
Well, how I see it. Blue collar workers are the BASE of our industry. Without industry we won't be first world countries for much longer. When massive amounts of people are unemployed, there will be an impact on society as a whole. Doesn't matter if your a banker, insurance worker, fireman or restaurant owner.
If we keep this up, we're the new China 40 years ago. Luxury items in Europe might become a gas heated stove. Wonderful times ahead I'm sure. Won't happen in our life times, but I wouldn't want to be my grandchild at this pace.
“Panthera GmbH, a group of investors comprising two Munich-based entrepreneurs, Constantin Sepmeier and Stefan Kalmund, former Apple and Bang & Olufsen executives and the Executive Board of Loewe AG reached an agreement to acquire significant parts of Loewe,” DTG reports. “The new owners want to bring the Loewe brand to a wider, younger, design- and tech-savvy base of customers throughout Europe, Russia and China.”
“Co-investor, and former head of Apple Europe, Jan Gesmar-Larsen, in his capacity as Chairman of the Advisory Board, will be responsible for the strategic realignment together with current Loewe CEO Matthias Harsch,” DTG reports. “Mr Gesmar-Larsen has benefited from extensive experience in management and board positions in many technology companies, including Apple, Dell and Bang & Olufsen."
i love how they mention apple and bno together
2 peas in an iPod
Thanks for bringing it back to the OP Flappo! lol
x:________________________
Sorry. Did I miss something..? What was your question?
Steffen: MGBGTV8: I have a simple question the UK has lost 4 million blue collar workers since the 1980 mostly skilled men the Chinese think we were mad given that huge skill base up people keep saying job losses will happen to Bankers, Insurance workers office staff but it never really has and it wont happen to Civil servants or local authority workers pity really wouldnt it of been better to have supported manufacturing industry long term rather than unproductive workers We in Europe seem to subsidised Argriculture but rarely Manufacturing could you see Denmark allowing Brazilian Bacon in it will always protect that interest but loads of danish companies have potty high costs to pay its amazing thay pull above there weight like scanspeak Dali B&O etc Just my rant on how things have gone Sorry. Did I miss something..? What was your question?
What you think about the turn of events at Loewe....?
Jonathan: What you think about the turn of events at Loewe....?
Yeah - this thread seems to have gone a bit 'off-topic' as often here on Beoworld...But that's one of the things I love about this place. We do get around :-D
Now - I think it's a good thing for Loewe to be taken over by this EU-based Investment Company with former Apple ond B&O people.Surely better than if they have just been taken over by some Chinese Company...
Flappo: i love how they mention apple and bno together 2 peas in an iPod
So - You love how they mention B&O and Apple together..?Let me remind you of one of your countless earlier negative comments on B&O:
(/quote="Flappo"):
Tbh if that's the best they can do I suggest they shut up shop a la Loewe
Apple will bring a new tv out next year - then bno = kaput !
Sticking bits of wood on a speaker design that's 20 years old , tragic
(/quote) -nov 1. 2013
-and another one of your golden greats:
(/quote="Flappo"): Over priced crap
Over priced crap
(/quote) -nov 1- 2013
-ever heard about dr Jeckyll and Mr Hyde...? Which one are you today..? ;-)
grow up
i didn't come here to argue
Loewe 2.0 will beat everything existing...I need a pizza now
I believe Hinrich Cordts was the first of the Struer managers who went to Loewe, some years ago now. That was when Loewe wanted to expand their store footprint and they nabbed the guy who was in charge of B&O retail.
When an opportunity remains unmined too long, others will move in. Blockbuster asleep/Netflix steps in, etc.
Loewe making a concerted play for the younger market, with the kind of resources and know-how this group seems to herald, is a smart bet, since another premium electronics company has left that segment untilled and unworked.
with margins so tight these days in average TV sales I'm surprised one of the big manufactures doesn't take on Loewe as their halo brand and try and recoup.
we tend to forget there is more to design than designing.
well it had turned into the important debate about outsourcing labour and effects on first world economies but my opinions on Loewe well i wish them well but there are up against it when you look at the Latest LG and Samsung OLED whisch are already being discounted by many thousands and they have great build quality and interesting technology
I might be very wrong but LG and Samsung most be getting some sort of assistance as they are dominating the market at present so Loewe will need to do something amazing even with the Huge investment Sharpe made with Flatpanels it still didnt pay off
Mark: with margins so tight these days in average TV sales I'm surprised one of the big manufactures doesn't take on Loewe as their halo brand and try and recoup.
I would be surprised if that's not the exact plan by the takeover team. Celebrity rich group buys the bones for nothing, screwing the suppliers and current customers. Put lipstick on the pig and sell it to a TV company. Take home the money.
Not for one minute do i believe Loewe will come out of this as a TV company.
+1
+1 too
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Maybe they can learn from B&O's mistakes and utilise Apple's strengths to raise a brand from near death. Maybe Loewe will use marketing the way B&O should and become a strong European company, or maybe they're just a bunch of venture capitalists trying to build a brand to sell asap
Jonathan: .....maybe they're just a bunch of venture capitalists trying to build a brand to sell asap
.....maybe they're just a bunch of venture capitalists trying to build a brand to sell asap
Which happened with the London-based pan-European publishing company I worked for ten years ago. They were bought by 'investors', people expected big things, 3 months later they started splitting up the company and selling parts to other companies, to make a quick profit. In the end, the UK company was the last remaining component, was sold to different venture capitalists who never made the additional investment required. It's now a shadow of it's former self and they can't shift it to anyone.
Moxxey - your description of your old employer could be used to describe many towns, regions and even entire countries.
People no longer happy to buy and sell stuff, they buy and sell each other, they even buy and sell agreements to buy and sell, then re-sell the resulting deal... a house of cards.
Very interesting discussion about this - and the way the financial sector in particular, has sold itself many times over ... it cannot go on. B&O ( and to a lesser degree Loewe) is a prime example of a company struggling to get by by making and selling things in a traditional trading model ( albeit with tweaks and varying nu-media marketing flimflam) whilst the world (and investors) expect so much more.
Madness.
Four very interesting listens here .... ep 3 is about the above.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0380qww/episodes/guide
i like your style
everyone has a price , supposedly....