ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Update: Pictures of the complete setup after the discussion.. :-)
All,
I'm new to this forum and to owning B&O products, but my interest in the B&O world has given me what I hope is quite good knowledge of the different products and technologies relevant to me. However, I'm not very good at understanding the wiring and the different link systems. I also have to admit that to me personally, B&O facination is more about high quality gadgets, setups and design than audiophelia, though I obviously appreviate high quality audio. I hope that someone take the time to read my first post, even though I admit when adding this comment that it is very long, apologize for that.
We have recently bought a house, and will move in within a couple of months. The previous owner has a very nice but a little old fashioned B&O setup in the house, with most cabling in the walls. The setup is like this:
Lower floor (136 m2):
Upper floor (80 m2):
We get to take over everything except to BeoVision and the upper floor setup, i.e. we will have:
This is great, and I can imagine several combinations, but we do not have a budget to buy a BeoVision or any BeoSystem etc. with surround setup. We own a Non-B&O TV and a decent Pioneer surround system without pre outs. We have an Apple TV connected to the surround receiver via Toslink and enjoy 5.1 from Apple TV movies and 2.1 from Airplay music. We are 31 and 28 with a 10 months old baby, and most of our music is digital (Apple lossless, not Spotify).
So, how do I proceed? I want to make the most out of this wonderful equipment while adapting it to my use. I would like to respect the current setup, yet I'm not very happy about having four speakers in the hall and two in each end of the lower floor (and two more to place where I want.
One alternative is to keep the 2x4000 and 2x8000 connected to the 9000 in the lower floor, and buy two playmakers for the 2x2 8000 I will then use in the upper floor.
Another very interesting alternative is to buy a decent but affordable preamp (like Emotica UMC-200) and use cables with triggers as desciribed on this forum to connect 4x BL8000 and a BL4000 as centre and buy a BL19 for current and future use. Then I could connect the Apple TV etc. to the preamp. I could also consider adding a Transmitter 1 to the setup to allow the BL19 to be wireless and perhaps to add the remaining two 8000s wirelessly with receivers to the preamp and place them in the other end of the room. Okay, time to stop writing. Any ideas or comments? Am I thinking all wrong here and potentially destroying a good and classic setup? Should I spend my budget on anything other than Playmakers or a PreAmp with or without transmitter /receiver and the BL19 sub?
BR, HC
Welcome to Beoworld.
The house with all the wiring done is fantastic. You can extend any of these cables to suit your remodeling of the set up.
''Old fahioned'' () I am sure you mean Classic
4000.s and 8000,s are all great speakers. Keep them all where they are until you find your feet in a new house.
My only suggestion if you can afford it is to make the seller an offer for the stuff they are planning to take with them.
For now I would work with what you have rather than go down the bl19/wireless route.
Whatever you decide, try to get a documentation for the wiring/cabling (how things are connected now), a drawing or similar from the former owner!
It will be much easier to make changes, if you know exactly how things are connected (since you can't see the wiring) - for you and for a B&O technician (if you should need that).
No need for thinking of wireless (WiSA) speakers, when you already have the wiring done!
As I see it, there could be many (new) possibilities with just keeping the recent setup.
You could start with adding an AirPortExpress (or the Playmaker) to the Aux-port of the BS9000 - and you would have access to your AirPlay music from any set of speakers connected or linked to it.
I would try to get hold of the BV10 (from the hall) - sure you could agree with the former owner on a good price!
And I would let it stay there. You would still have music (CD, Radio, AirPlay) from the BS8000 through the speakers of BV10 in the hall, then - and you could add an ATV to it, allowing for individual music (just there) and for 'whatever you use an ATV for'.
The 4x8000 speakers could (as you wrote) be removed for upstairs use - either with (a) Playmaker(s) or (as a suurround setup) with a receiver (with pre-outs) to your current tv in another suitable room. In time you could think of getting a wireless transmitter/receivers solution in order to avoid new cabling to the speakers in 'the new tv-room'! But I wouldn't let that have first priority.
Greetings Millemissen
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Thank you very much, and especially for your advice.
With old fashioned (i.e. classic) B&O setup I was really referring to the use of and placement of the equipment - not the equipment itself. I love the previous owners' classy setup, but even their grand children aren't kids anymore, and our use of the house with a baby and more to come will probably be quite different.
The main problem is that the current setup allows 1-2 persons to enjoy music 3 places in the house, and that all places are downstairs and adjacent to one of the two bedrooms. The TV /surround setup is actually in a narrow hall where only 2 persons can see the screen, and only one door to separate it from each bedroom.
I'm playing with the idea of having one main setup upstairs, with 5.1 connected to the preamp and everything else connected to the preamp inputs, including my AppleTV etc. This would allow for 2.1 music in most of the upper floor, and 5.1 when watching movies. There would be room for a lot of people enyoing music and watching movies, and the baby (and the wife if it's a men's night) may sleep downstairs.
Obviously the caveat is that some of the downstairs wiring and setup would be redundant. I will definitely get documentation for the wiring, the previous owner has a B&O technician contact who should know the setup. Unfortunately there is no way I get to purchase his BeoVision, as the B&O technician has already installed it in their new appartment.
Say I go for the above mentioned setup with a preamp and 5.1 upstairs. We would have a quite large sofa and some chairs facing the view, and I would love to place the speakers around that "seating area" to enjoy both 2.1 and 5.1. The preamp and everything else would then need to be placed by the wall behind the seating area, out of sight. Could I then consider using a projector and a motorized projector screen to allow for a screen to appear in front of the view when relevant, or is that really not allowed? It would allow us to face the furniture towards the view, listening to 2.1 music while in the living room and staying in the same place with the same speaker setup when watching movies.
I will of course keep the downstairs setup with the BS9000, 2xBL4000 and 2xBL8000 in addition to this, and probably connect an Airport Express to the BS9000. However, then I would need a centre speaker anyway, as I can not use the BL4000s. Oh my, all these considerations...
Well, well - looking forward to hearing how the setup finally will be.
MM
Yes, I will definitely post the results with pictures. I take it I should spend some time considering the different options, right now I'm thinking that the best might be to keep the lower floor setup and wiring and rather add a preamp, a sub and perhaps a projector there. We won't take over the house until May, so until then I'm just dreaming (and selling our apartment).
One question, though, as my understanding of the wiring is a bit limited: Is it possible to use one of the powerlink sockets in the wall that connects the BS9000 to one of the BL8000s as an input to the preamp? I.e. to connect a power link to RCA cable from the socket to the AUX of the preamp, and in that way be able to connect the surround setup to the BS9000 via the preamp?
As I wrote above, you need a map of the wiring, if you should give exact suggestions for a remoddeling.
I asume you mean the PL-socket in the hall, where the BV10 used to be (?)
Not knowing how things were connected, I suppose that the BV10 and the BS9000 were connected via MasterLink - and the speakers were connected to the BV10..
Can you see any cables on the wall/coming from the wall, where the BV10 used to be? If: yes, which ones?
Fantastic set of gear you have there!
If you go with a non B&O TV and surround processor remember to check out the new Beolab 14 if you'd like a minimalist set of surround speakers that match the aesthetics/sleek look of your other gear.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
@Millemissen: Well, actually I did not mean PL-socket in the hall, where the BV10 used to be - I meant the two PL-sockets in the far end of the living room, where two of the BL8000s are connected to the BS9000 in the other end of the living room. I suppose that they originate in one of the PL outputs of the BS9000 and that there is a Y-split between the BS9000 and the two sockets.
As I don't have the map or access to the place yet - let's simplify: Is it possible to connect one of the PL outputs of the BS9000 to an AUX input on a Preamp, connect the Preamp to additional speakers and then distribute sound from the BS9000 to these speakers in addition to the already connected BL4000s?
@Jeff: Glad to hear that. Thanks for the advice, I will check it out!!
Theoretically: yes - the PowerLink signal is a (volumen-controlled line-signal), that comes from the source (the BS9000).
But why would you do that? It would produce a lot of trouble, when you want to control what comes from the BS9000. In addition to controlling the BS with a Beo4, you would have to remote control the preamp.
It would be problematic because of the BL4000's that are activated at the same time. To use the signal from the PL-out of the BS through the preamp, you would have to turn the volumen up to a certain high level - which again would give the BL4000 a rather high sound level. If you turn that down, you would have to increse the volumen of the preamp similarly. That is a rather nerdy solution!
If you want to use the BL8000's for both systems (the BS and the preamp), you could use a PowerLink Switch instead..This would activate the speakers - either, when the BS is the source, or when the preamp is the source.
---
Are you sure that the BL8000 are connectet through a Y-splitter direct to the BS9000?
In some cases (if the distance is big) the additional speakers-pair is set up through a 'BeoLink Active' to be controlled individually. Do you see a round ir-eye in that part of the livingroom?
Mostly importantly, I warmly welcome you to BeoWorld! B&O can be rather unique in the many intricacies of a setup. BeoWorld is a great resource and is full of friendly members eager to help you. Don't be afraid to ask questions. We live for solving these issues!
Ditto that, B&O has it's share of peculiarities, and often doesn't play well with others unless you know the secret password...certainly there's a ton of experience here in the members, who are very willing to help.
You have a stunningly good selection of equipment, the BL8000 and BS9000 are considered iconic pieces of B&O gear. I know the BS9000 has been displayed in the US Museum of Modern Art (MoMA), and I think the BL8000 was produced for about 20 years, they sold over 650,000 of them (I've heard that stat but never knew if that was pairs of individual speakers). I always loved the look of the BL4000 as well, such a graceful cabinet shape.
I have the BS9000/BL8000 combo, with a Playmaker for streaming audio to the BS, so I think you've got a great setup!
Thank you very much, Jeff and Beojeff, sounds great! I am actually quite fond of such peculiarities, it makes for a more interesting hobby.
@Millemissen: Right, I did not think of the volume problem with the BL4000s, then it makes no sense. I'm not sure about the Y splitter either, and I can not remember any IR eye (the previous owners still live in the house for a few more weeks), but I will get a hold of the B&O technician who is the previous owner's contact and who was supposed to call me the day before yesterday.
HC: Lower floor (136 m2): BeoSound 9000 mounted vertically on the wall with no visible cables. Not a good place for TV. 2x BeoLab 4000 mounted vertically on the wall on each side of the BS9000, no visible cables. 2x BeoLab 8000 in the other end of the floor, connected to the BS9000 via sockets in the wall - no visible cables. BeoVision 10 in front of a small couch in a hall, i.e. not in the same room as the other gear, but not a great place for a home theatre for more than 1-2 persons. 4x BeoLab 8000 connected to the BeoVision for 5.0 surround. They can also play from the BS9000, but I'm not sure how - if it's via the BeoVision or not.
This setup would make sense to me:
2 and 3 are daisy-chained connected with powerlink to 1, the bs9000, So these speakers are not individual volume controlled.
4 and 5, are in a 5.0 setup connected with powerlink
1 and 4 are connected with master link.
BV10 in V.OPT2, and BS9000 in A.OPT2. Meaning they both will wake up with ir-commands.
So we finally took over the house and had the chance to take a closer look at the setup. I am really sorry for the long delay in updates here, but there has been no evolvement except for in my mind until this week.
DoubleU: You are correct, after a closer look this seems to be the setup.
We have figured this setup makes no sense to us, the surround setup is in a corner of a hallway too small for us and the speakers are in places we would never enjoy music, so I start over again. According to the B&O guy this strange setup was a result of the previous owners adding new hardware over time and having unusual preferences.
I have ordered and received a PreAmp from the US and cables with triggers from AV Connection in Denmark, and will experiment with this as a surround setup along with a projector. I will also experiment with Transmitter 1 and Receiver 1 to avoid the cable issues.
I think this has the potential to turn into a quite interesting project if I get it all to work, kind of a "classic B&O equipment meets modern B&O with a touch of non-B&O" experiment.
I have high hopes and will keep you updated, probably with a few questions as well. Here is one for starter: How will 4 BL8000s (current) perform along with a BL 10 (plan to buy second hand) and a BL 19 (plan to buy as my first brand new B&O speaker) in a surround setup? Very good, i suppose - but no results on Google...
Hi HC,
Just a thought, but have you considered a second hand beosystem 3? You should be able to pick one up for less than 2000 euros.
I've tried the whole BS9000 plus Beolab speakers along with a non B&O TV and non B&O surround processor and whilst it worked, in hindsight it was way more hassle than it was worth. I now have a beosys3 based TV (a BV7-40) and the audio experience is massively improved - I suspect this is in no small part because the Beosystem 3 knows about the acoustic response of each of the beolab speaker models and is therefore does a much better job of the bass management.
This also has brings many other advantages such as being able to connect the BS9000 via masterlink and distribute audio between the two rooms as required, and the ability to control everything (potentially including your projector and set-top boxes) with one remote control.
Martin.
Hi!
I have to admit that when I considered a second hand beosystem 3, it was not a very thorough consideration. My first impression was that it's pros and cons did not match my situation very well.
While a great audio experience is important, masterlink and B&O remote controlling is not important as I'm very happy with my current RF remote system with IR blasters to control devices in closed cabinets and as I use different systems and sources in different zones and have no urge to connect the zones. It would be more important to me with a more modern, flexible and digital system with Hi-speed HDMI, HDMI output instead of DVI etc.
I found that a digital only non-B&O 5.1/ 7.1 preamp with good audio processing, no video processing (only "preservation") and a good EQ manager could be a good alternative. The Emotiva UMC-200 may be conidered too much of a budget alternative, but it has received great reviews and has been mentioned on this forum as well, so I figured I'll give it a try. Apparently it has great EQ technology with alternatives ranging from using the auto room correction with the attached microphone to manual setup with 11 band parametric EQ per channel and non-Emotiva software called REW (Room EQ Wizard), so I'm hoping to be able to get the bass management straight as well.
Should I still reconsider, given these thoughts?
So, I have finally bought my first brand new Beolab, the BL19. I started out by connecting it to a Playmaker allng with 2 BL8000s, and I must say I was stunned. Only problem is that when I move it downstairs to the 5.1 setup, I will miss it up here with the Playmaker and the 2 BL8000s - but I can't really have two. And also, the white finish seems to get damaged only by looking at it, it only looked new for 2 minutes....
I also bought a second hand BL10, wall brackets for two 8000s, a transmitter and two receivers and a lot of cables (RJ45 to DIN and RCA etc.) and a quite decent projector and 120" screen.
Now I have 4 existing BL8000s, a second hand BL10 and a brand new BL19 along with transmitter and receivers for the back, a preamp, cables and custom cables with triggers from Dansih AV connection, and of course projector and sceeen. I'vr also started to build a contrast wall 70cm from the original wall, and plan to keep the cables and gear inbetween.
I suppose that this might be a good and exciting setup and good use of the B&O gear in the house, despite not using the in-wall cables? The remaining 2 8000s will be upstairs in the livingroom with a Playmaker, and I plan to use the 2 BL4000s with an Apple TV and a TV in a sort of gym where the tv room /hall used to be.
So, the big question: The BS9000 - should I connect it to the preamp via coax and benefit from the design on the contrast wall with all the other gear, or should I use it in the gym /hall with the BL4000s and connect the AppleTV to the Aux instead of directly to the BL4000s?
Well, finally I'm able to complete this discussion with pictures and an update. I started this discussion a little early in June last year, but I actually didn't move to the new house until August /September. The main setup has been in place since before Christmas, but the complete setup with gym etc. wasn't ready until last week, so this is actually a timely update in that sence.
Short summary: We bought a house from a couple who were quite fond of B&O but were moving to an appartment with a new setup, and as a part of a deal they left a BS9000, 6x BL8000 and 2x BL4000 in the house. They were more than twice our age and the setup wasn't right for us at all, we coulden't use any of the speakers in their current locations. Also, their BeoVision was not part of the deal, and we were left with no center speaker and no sourround processor. I asked advice in this thread on how to get the best out of the equipment. I listened to some advice, but I didn't buy a BeoVision.
Conclusion: I belive we actually got the best out of these speakers based on our preferences, at least I'm extremely happy - and my wife is as well. I've also become a B&O fan, and will soon complete a bathroom project we've been working on for a while. Hope you agree that this isn't too bad, see for yourselves below:
Surround setup: I used 4 of the 6 BL8000s, bought an incredible BL10 second-hand and a brand new BL19. I built a new dry wall 40cm from the existing wall to hide all cabling and equipment, and use the 40cm as a "technical room". I bought wall stands for the front BL8000s and a Transmitter1 for the WISA BL19 and the surround BL8000s (with receivers). I ordered an affordable (but quite great) 7.1 /HDMI preamp, Emotiva UMC-200, and some cables from Denmark with DIN-PL to RCA+trigger.
The BS9000 is actually connected to the Preamp with SPDIF, but I have to admit that I often use the AppleTV for iTunes or Spotify over AirPlay. The AppleTV is connected to the PreAmp with Toslink, so the DAC is in the PreAmp and not the AppleTV. Also, the projector (I'll come back to it) displays album art in a quite decent way next to the BS9000 when I use AirPlay. :-)
As to the placement of the BL10 center, it looks beautiful in my taste touching the floor, but the placement is also related to the motorized 120" screen that along with the projector shows a more than 3 meters wide picture which I really love. This picture along with great 5.1 which includes a really strong BL10 center and a solid BL19 Sub is probably the closest I'll ever come to perfection in this area.
Living room:The final two BL8000s connected to a Playmaker I had to buy, nothing more to say, really - but the sound here is quite good, actually, and also reaches the dinner table and the kitchen. I have to admit that I have a tv and my first 5.1 (Pioneer) sound system in the "TV part" of the room, so this one is only for music.
Mini-Gym:The final two speakers, the BL4000, was considered for a 7.1 setup in the main surround setup, but I decided to keep it 5.1. and use these for something else. The mini-gym was complete last week, and for those of you who actually read this thread: This is where the previous owners had their Beovision and surround setup. The TV is a curved Samsung I got quite cheap, but the audio out was crappy as expected, so I had to order a DAC from Emotiva as I was so happy with the Emotiva Preamp for the surround setup. Toslink from TV to DAC, RCA to BL4000s, great sound.
So, that's about it - I used all 8 speakers and the BS9000, bought a second hand BL10, a new BL19 and lots of cables, stands, preamp, dac, transmitter, receiver and playmaker stuff - so now there's probably no way back, and I love it. Will write about my bathroom project when it's done!
P.S. Unfortunately I couldn't use any of the existing cabling (PowerLink), then again - I don't really need it.
Great looking house and set up
Stunning house!! Superb set up and use of the B&O well done!!!
Jonnie
Thank you, guys!