ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
With - sort of - natural companion? Who copied whom?
Jacques
chartz: New v. old. The NOS ones appear to be genuine Motorolas! Why those semiconductors fail is one of the greatest mysteries of the universe... After women of course...
New v. old. The NOS ones appear to be genuine Motorolas!
Why those semiconductors fail is one of the greatest mysteries of the universe... After women of course...
I read ones that it takes about 10 years from oxygen atom to get through semiconductors plastic, if so, after 10 years inside semiconductor things begin to happen...
Women? Why?
blah-blah and photographs as needed
Orava:Women? Why?
Semiconductors are like women, unpredictable
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Søren Mexico:Semiconductors are like women, unpredictable
No, they are very predictable...finally they fail.
//Bo.A long list...
Semiconductors that is.
BO: Semiconductors that is.
Ahem.
The Beomaster has been playing for over three hours, loud with overload beacon sometimes glowing.
BO: Søren Mexico:Semiconductors are like women, unpredictable No, they are very predictable...finally they fail.
Sorry Søren, Bo is right, women ARE predictable.
When they say ‘no” they usually mean “yes.” And when you ask them “what is wrong,” and they say “nothing,” RUN FOR COVER!
Plus gentlemen, we don’t multi-task like a woman, they may walk past us looking calm and serene but their minds a whirling like a tornado, “how can I get my husband to paint the living room, I should go out for a walk, I want chocolate, when was the last time he asked me out to dinner, why hasn’t my daughter called me today,” and the list runs on and on….. even sleep doesn’t stop it.
Trying to understand a women is like trying to comprehend the entire order of the universe, it isn’t gonna happen.
Just enjoy them for what they are and hope they return the compliment!
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
Søren Mexico: Orava:Women? Why? Semiconductors are like women, unpredictable
Trick is: Learn to read them. Women I mean.
But we digress...
I am happy to report success as regards the Beomaster. It seems that replacing with carefully selected components is mandatory in addition to beoing (ah! nice typo, I'll leave it!) able to source the exact transistor references. Martin will probably be glad to do this for us!
The preamp will be less critical.
I'm getting reacquainted with the Beomaster 4400. It is a truly great receiver, probably the best I have. It is that good!
I am about to test it on my M70 Beovoxes. Since they are 4 Ω speakers, it should sound even better! Let's see!
Jacques,
Congratulations on your triumph! I never doubted that you were going to prevail, and better still your appreciation for your Beomaster 4400.
Thank you Jeff.
I seem to recall that yours was temperamental. Was this solutionned at all?
chartz: Thank you Jeff. I seem to recall that yours was temperamental. Was this solutionned at all?
Hi Jacques,
Temperamental? You are being so kind…. and it is appreciated.
Solutionned? (Even my spell-check doesn’t know that one, and I’ll admit I looked it up just to be sure myself.)
In answer to your question, yes and no….. yes in practical terms, and no technically.
None of us (me included) wants to rehash that colourful nightmare with all the personality changes, the INTENSE burning electronics in evidence on multiple floors of my house, etc.
It was kinda like my break-in on my Beomaster 4500, only multiplied by 100! The BM 4500 displayed mild and slight changes before settling down nicely plus it too gave of an aroma, BUT a very mild one which didn’t last beyond a day or two.
In contrast the Beomaster 4400 arrived here after being rebuilt with NOS (but ancient) capacitors, resistors, transistors, etc in a foul and nasty mood. Nasty!
Horrendous personality changes and lots of odd “issues,” but eventually settled down to a VERY bassy amplifier which I doubt reaches the volume it was designed to produce.
That means it doesn’t like to be pressed, so I don’t press it.
In the end it appears that both my Beomaster 4400 and I are conditionally “happy” with each other. I “fuss” over it keeping it spotless, I monitor its temperature (not a problem), and I don’t insist it do what it can’t.
In response this Beomaster 4400 plays well (if VERY, VERY bassy), brings in far away radio stations that I enjoy, and stopped smelling up my entire three story house.
During the height of my BeoWorld communications Martin and Søren had me convinced that this BM 4400 could burst into flames at any moment, to the point I went out and purchased a large fire extinguisher which I kept right beside the BM 4400. (If it was gonna burn, it wasn’t going to burn for long!!!)
That was nearly two years ago so my fear of fire is greatly reduced. (I suppose it could still happen, but…)
The plan was to send it off to Benny after the Beomaster 4500 and 2400 were finished, but the pair and my work on my Seeburg M100B jukebox has kind of flattened my wallet, so I am putting off this repair for the future.
Thanks for inquiring none the less as I value your interest.
P.S. This picture is highly over-critical.
Piaf: Solutionned? (Even my spell-check doesn’t know that one, and I’ll admit I looked it up just to be sure myself.)
Oh dear! I was writing in English and thinking in French at the same time! Frenglish then... Sorry!
Of course I did mean solved.
Your fire extinguisher story is amazing. Often have I had the same dark idea of things burning... Especially old valve equipment which can give up the ghost in the most spectacular kind of way - capacitors literally exploding, throwing a horrible yellow substance all over and big resistors melting, producing loads of acrid smoke which, in the worst cases, can corrode anything within an amazing distance! I know because I have seen it happen several times, and it is a really eerie thing to experience.
Spooky picture Jeff. It looks like there is a Beomaster version of Mr King's Christine...
Don't bin it, because it will come back with a vengeance and haunt your nightmares.
chartz: Piaf: Solutionned? (Even my spell-check doesn’t know that one, and I’ll admit I looked it up just to be sure myself.) Oh dear! I was writing in English and thinking in French at the same time! Frenglish then... Sorry! Of course I did mean solved. Your fire extinguisher story is amazing. Often have I had the same dark idea of things burning... Especially old valve equipment which can give up the ghost in the most spectacular kind of way - capacitors literally exploding, throwing a horrible yellow substance all over and big resistors melting, producing loads of acrid smoke which, in the worst cases, can corrode anything within an amazing distance! I know because I have seen it happen several times, and it is a really eerie thing to experience. Spooky picture Jeff. It looks like there is a Beomaster version of Mr King's Christine... Don't bin it, because it will come back with a vengeance and haunt your nightmares.
Writing in English and thinking in French, well sir at least you can speak both languages and well, which is more than most of us can say. (That definitely includes me!)
Ages ago I was in Paris and met a very nice couple from Brazil who were staying at an extremely exclusive high-end hotel where I didn’t expect to find anyone who spoke English.
So I got out my French/English dictionary, composed what I wanted to say, wrote it all down, and rehearsed it. I then called the hotel and spoke with the man at the front desk who “allowed” me to continue with my entire speech, literally murdering the French language beyond repair.
How he didn’t burst into uncontrollable laughter I have no idea, but when I finally finished my terrible speech, he said in flawless English, “Now Mr. Girard, who is it that you wish to speak to?” I was SO embarrassed and humiliated!
Back on the subject why is the photo “spooky?” I am not at all sure I get that.
The photo is actually highly over critical in that this Beomaster 4400 looks very presentable indeed, whereas the photo shows countless nicks, flaws, and smudges that do not show up to the naked eye.
Although I don’t see the “spooky” feather of the picture comparing my Beomaster 4400 to Mr. King’s Christine THAT I do see and have no difficulty in imagining.
Those early days were like a test of wills between the 4400 and me….. and the 4400 was winning.
My MC 120.2 speakers never had a problem until I connected them to the Beomaster 4400 and I am not at all certain it didn’t fry them somehow.
Plus all those odd personality changes, no bass whatsoever then LOTS of bass, the dramatic volume level changes, the squeaky treble, and let us not forget the pungent aroma this 4400 gifted me with….. which lingered for hours after each use. (This went on for weeks!)
I have six amplifiers and they all have their distinctive characteristics, but only the Beomaster 4400 has a definite personality.
In short although it is an inanimate object I don’t think I would dare “cross” this 4400 let alone bin it.
Yes well I was obviously looking at this picture with a clearly different perspective!
Actually it doesn't look bad at all, and we all know that those flashlight photos rarely do subjects any favours...
My 4400 has a strong personality too, but it is stable.
As for languages, we all make considerable efforts but we do sometimes fail, it is so hard. Jeff Girard, mmm that sounds quite French to me!
Different perspective notwithstanding you posed an interesting observation that had not occurred to me previously, my BM 4400 has a “Christine-like” personality.
And like in the book, at least she likes me. (I think….)
I rather like that your BM 4400 has a strong personality as well, characteristics I would not have attached to an amplifier before I acquired my 4400. All the others are just equipment.
Girard is French, but that doesn’t seem to help in my ability to speak the language. I try, people laugh, but I don’t mind or take offense. At least I make the effort!
It is all good and as always I genuinely enjoy your commentary!
Off topic I know (sorry moderators) but we recently had Mr King in Paris and he really seems to be a nice fellow, very honest and simple - I thouroughly enjoyed the TV interview. I do have a lot of respect for his literature.
Slight update.
The Beomaster 4400 has been behaving impeccably.
And what a wonderful sound does it produce too! I am wondering whether it is not better than the 6000 and 8000 after all. Mmm...
Still, I think the Beolab 5000 trounces them all!
I feel that this is an open invitation to Peter to step with august commentary. Point of fact it was Peter who encouraged me to buy a Beomaster 4400 in the first place.
Until Peter arrives with his encyclopedic knowledge of all things B&O, I believe you will find that the Beomaster 6000 had more in common with the Beomaster 4400 than the Beomaster 8000, which it closely resembled. The biggest difference apparently is the addition of electronic source selection as opposed to the BM 4400’s mechanical ones.
B&O pulled out the stops with the Beolab 5000, but the Beomaster 8000 was their ultimate effort before large and powerful amplifiers began fading in the face of the iPhone.
I’d love to toss in an opinion but as I have never so much as seen a Beomaster 6000 or 8000 in the flesh I’d be hard pressed to comment on their sound quality.
And as for my personal Beomaster 4400 with its original trimmers and that collection of well fried capacitors, resistors, and transistors….. the only thing I can say for certain is that my 4400 does not sound remotely like yours! On that you can be sure!
Hi Jeff,
If you could lay your hands on a 6000 or an 8000, would you go ahead and get them?
They are usually not cheap though. A well-preserved example can command a high price. I paid my 8000 more than I planned for from a dear Beoworld member - about $ 300 - and it was not working completely! Plus he sold the remote to another member!
The tuner saga being over it is now running every day on my M70 monitors.
My absolutely pristine, boxed 6000 with remote set me back a healthy $ 400!
I got my almost mint Beolab 5000 for a miserly $ 200...
BUT my 4400 cost me nothing! However, I spent hours on it, and it was entirely worth it. Fixing it was fun and most rewarding.
Jeff, how about starting learning right now? Get an old tatty Beomaster and get your screwdriver!
Piaf:B&O pulled out the stops with the Beolab 5000, but the Beomaster 8000 was their ultimate effort before large and powerful amplifiers began fading in the face of the iPhone.
Please do not mention piePhones in the same sentence with the Beomaster 8000, they have *nothing* to do with each other - and almost a quarter of a decade between them
It's active speakers that removed the need for things like BM8000 from the B&O portfolio.
--mika
Well said Mika!
sent from my iPhone
tournedos: Piaf:B&O pulled out the stops with the Beolab 5000, but the Beomaster 8000 was their ultimate effort before large and powerful amplifiers began fading in the face of the iPhone. Please do not mention piePhones in the same sentence with the Beomaster 8000, they have *nothing* to do with each other - and almost a quarter of a decade between them It's active speakers that removed the need for things like BM8000 from the B&O portfolio.
Mika,
Technically you are correct about the powered speakers, BUT today stereos in general along with BIG wonderful speakers are lost on today’s generation. They are MORE than happy with earplugs and they don’t see the difference, which I find sad.
chartz: Hi Jeff, If you could lay your hands on a 6000 or an 8000, would you go ahead and get them? They are usually not cheap though. A well-preserved example can command a high price. I paid my 8000 more than I planned for from a dear Beoworld member - about $ 300 - and it was not working completely! Plus he sold the remote to another member! The tuner saga being over it is now running every day on my M70 monitors. My absolutely pristine, boxed 6000 with remote set me back a healthy $ 400! I got my almost mint Beolab 5000 for a miserly $ 200... BUT my 4400 cost me nothing! However, I spent hours on it, and it was entirely worth it. Fixing it was fun and most rewarding. Jeff, how about starting learning right now? Get an old tatty Beomaster and get your screwdriver!
What an interesting collection of questions!
If I found a Beomaster 6000 or 8000 would I buy it? Hummm.
The short answer is yes, but I’d be more likely to spring for the Beomaster 8000, but I’d consider a 6000. The rest of that answer is I already have too many amplifiers for a “sane” person so shopping for more is…. well impractical.
The “pricy” amounts you spent have me drooling. I am truly PAINED to admit yet again that I spent $700 on my Beomaster 4400 and shipping was on top of that!
That said I’d probably pay $100 to have a Beomaster 4400 in good shape next to mine just for comparison.
What I have in non-technical terms is a Beomaster littered with fried components and dubious trimmers. It has been a year since all the personalities surfaced and that endless aroma smelling up my entire house. (It really was awful.) At least that is in the past.
The last year has been pleasantly uneventful however as I have said before I do not believe my 4400 produces the volume it was designed for, crapping out at about 7. It doesn’t distort, but considering what all happened I am NEVER willing to see that overload lamp lit.
In addition after all the settling out what I have is a VERY bassy amplifier, which I rather like, BUT I don’t believe it is the way this amplifier should be sounding.
However it works and runs cool so….
As for getting an old tattered Beomaster to learn on, I already have such an item, a relatively simple Beomaster 1000. Søren wants to do a “joint” rebuild and I might do that IF we don’t have to move our household in June.
I just sent a proposal to our landlord fifteen minutes ago so we’ll see what he says.
This info is just for humor and camaraderie.
With all your talk about hums, thumps, etc. in the far back of my mind, I was rather enjoying an extended visit with my Beomaster 4400.
I was playing records on the Beogram 8000 and everything was going great, with the one thought that kept coming back to mind, “My God this amp is bassy!” I have mentioned this countless times, but with listening to the rest of my collection more often than the 4400, this massive BASS still manages to surprise.
But then this deep hummmmmmmmm started and I thought the end had arrived. Totally unexpected, turned the volume down, but the hum continued. Had this happened a couple of years ago I would not have been so surprised, and with my fire extinguisher ready to go.
With visions of a comment from Martin vis-à-vis small signal transistors coming to mind, my attention drifted to my record cleaning MMC 6000.
But first the electronics sleuth in me decided to try the FM, and it was fine. So it couldn’t be the amp, tried tightening the RCA plugs from the Beogram 8000 and like magic all went back to normal.
A tempest in a teapot. Loose RCA plugs. Oh how I love a truly simple solution!
So I went back to my work and enjoyed another hour’s worth of 4400 music.
Have a good week!
Nice one Jeff! Thanks for the friendly note too!
A tempest un a teapot indeed (here, in a glass of water).
Hum never worries me, I know it is always a connection problem. Or a broken solder joint within a DIN plug!
Dom
2x BeoSystem 3, BeoSystem 5000, BeoSystem 6500, 2x BeoMaster 7000, 2 pair of BeoLab Penta mk2, AV 7000, Beolab 4000, BeoSound 4000, Playmaker, BeoLab 2500, S-45, S-45.2, RL-140, CX-50, C-75, 3x CX-100, 3x MCL2 link rooms, 3x Beolab 2000, M3, P2, Earset, A8 earphones, A3, 2x 4001 relay, H3, H3 ANC, H6, 2014 Audi S5 with B&O sound, and ambio
My goodness, you are so very welcome!
I think my knee-jerk reaction maybe forgiven considering my Beomaster 4400’s dubious past. I was doing laborious grunt-work….. you know the kind, requires NO mental capacity at all, just a bit of muscle and a LOT of boring time.
And out of nowhere this pretty major HUM starts, came as a complete surprise.
As I said, a couple of years ago when this 4400 first arrived its self-implosion was definitely expected. Every time I pushed a source button, usually PHONO I habitually wondered if today would be the day it exploded, caught fire, or whatever.
That was then and this is now and I have come to expect this 4400 to operate without drama of any kind.
To my credit, thinking the worst was happening, I had the presence of mind to try the FM, which squashed whatever drama the surprise initially caused.
Then like you my inclination was to check for a bad connection.
Once the “problem” was solved I felt a bit foolish for my petite panic, but then thought this makes a “cute” little story. Not earth shattering, doesn’t change anyone’s lives, won’t solve the problems in the Ukraine, yet still an easy to relate to little human story.
And for the record, the tiny hum incident aside, I genuinely enjoyed my 3 hours with the Beomaster 4400. Two thumbs up! :)
DMacri:I had a similar "oh, no!" experience last week. I recently added my daughter's music to my iTunes playlist and just hit shuffle. It's nice because I keep discovering new music, or at least it was nice until last week. Apparently, there is a song that includes some very interesting hum and buzz sound effects - like you might get with having bad connections on a guitar amp - well, I just hit Tape 2 on my trusty remote and guess what song had just started? Scared the hell out of me until like Jeff I too tried an FM preset and all was right. Whew! Now to find that song and delete it...
Thanks Dom,
Now I don’t feel so alone!
When these things first start they really do scare the hell out of us…. until we get about the business of investigating the problem.
That song won’t have the same affect a second time, but I agree, find it and get rid of it.
Thanks for sharing!
Hi Cleve,
You are not late at all, especially considering we all share a common interest or addiction. (Your choice) As I have 6 Beograms I can heartily agree with the effects of the Beovirus and you are right, there is no cure.
I also relate to the “age thing,” with a twist. My spouse has hyper-sensitive hearing and tends to speak very, very softly, to the extent that I actually feared a hearing loss. Since I went through the whole disco era with the insane volume the clubs “treated” us all to, a major hearing loss was all but to be expected.
So I went in for a comprehensive testing and was pleasantly surprised to find that I have normal hearing with the complete range in one ear and a very slight hearing loss in the mid-range where human speech resides in the other. Dumb luck, but I’ll take it!
The above “seems” to explain my sensitivity to the upper range which can be rather annoying. Specifically my S 45.2 speakers are simply too crisp for my “taste” along with my Linn Isobarics. (Easy solution, adjust the treble and I’m good to go.) The S 75’s however are perfect.
I purchased my Beomaster 4400 at Peter’s suggestion and relish how much the 4400 pleases its owners. Jacques and Søren both love theirs, and Peter is beyond a fan.
Unfortunately I didn’t get so lucky in this acquisition as the shop that restored it was misguided in the extreme using NOS capacitors and cleaning the trimmers rather then replacing them.
This Beomaster 4400 had a rough beginning with fairly dramatic personality changes beginning with ZERO bass, we are talking no bass whatever, volume changes, and months, I said months of moderately intense capacitor, resistor, and transistor burning. At the worst of this breaking-in process my entire house reeked of electrical fire and Martin suggested I stay near this 4400 when using it in order to turn it off FAST before it erupted into a bonfire…. I wisely purchased a really good fire extinguisher and placed it NEXT to the 4400.
It has been about 2 years since all this unwanted and unexpected drama took place and now I rather enjoy my Beomaster 4400 which oddly enough settled down to a rather pleasant amp that is clearly excessively bassy. (The fire extinguisher is now in the kitchen which makes more sense.)
In addition my failed Beomaster 4500 was rebuilt in Georgia and is an absolute delight, plus my long suffering Beomaster 2400, rebuilt in the same shop cleared Canada Customs yesterday and should be here tomorrow.
The shop owner, Benny commented that my Beomaster 2400 was the cleanest and nicest BM 2400 he had ever had on his bench requiring much less restoration than normally expected at its age. Even the treble, bass, and balance pots were all good.
I can’t wait to hear how this Beomaster 2400 sounds after the rebuild. While no Beomaster 4400 I expect that it will more than please this listener.
Thanks for joining in!