Responsibility for items damaged during shipping

Hi

I have noticed that a lot of sellers of Bang & Olufsen equipment do not ship the items and insist on them being picked up in person, which is understandable due to the fragile nature of the items, I have done this myself. However if a seller does offer postage and the items are damaged during shipping, whose responsibility is it? is it the buyer or the seller. I have noticed on many auctions that the small print says that items cannot be returned if damaged in transit as its the buyers responsibility. Is that legally correct, if you buy from Amazon and your item is damaged in transit you get a replacement or a refund automatically.

It is the responsibility of the seller to make the effort to properly and safely pack the item. The shipping company is then responsible for delivering the item without damage. If it is delivered with shipping damage, you collect the insurance from the shipper. If it was packed poorly by the seller, you claim the product was not as described. If there was no obvious shipping damage and the box is in good shape, you could rightly assume the item was in pieces when the seller packed it. If the seller doesn't want this mark against his feedback record, he'd take better care in packing.

At least that's how I have done it. I have also had a buyer give me bad feedback for obvious shipping damage. A metal pole was driven through the box and punched right through the receiver. Rather than enter a claim against the shipping company, he wanted a refund. Although I thought it was unfair, I refunded and placed the damage claim myself.

 

I am also buying in Bay and I expect the items to be packed well. I also sell occasionally things on Bay and I always try to give my best to pack the item well, if necessary double boxed. I would say the rules are exactly as DMacri said.

But I know too, that some buyers do not want to bother themselves complaining the shipping company if they receive damaged item with damaged package. It is often very complicated and it is much easier to claim the refund from seller because the Bay give the buyer right to send the item back in 99% of cases. I sent once item to China very well packed, double-boxed and of course insured but it came damaged. The buyer was to lazy to enter a claim against the shipping company and simply gave me negative feedback. I could not make anything against.

But I think there are also lot of cheaters on both side, as buyer and as seller, using this, let say, not 100% defined procedure. Unfortunately IMO Bay is not interested enough to eliminate those from their platform. Once I had to do with one of them and he is after all still on the Bay selling his items.

But generally I agree completely with DMacri, it should work as he described.

 

 

 

I agree with you both, I would be quite happy to pursue the carrier personally as a buyer, if the package had been well packed by the seller and the damage was obviously the carriers fault, if provided with all the relevant details from the buyer i.e. what extent of insurance cover had been arranged etc. 

However it looks as though ebay will put the onus on the seller as being responsible for the safe delivery no matter what, if indeed in 99% of cases paypal refunds the buyers money anyway. I asked the question because I am considering buying from abroad and I am worried about the condition of the item when it arrives and what to do if its damaged. In most cases it would be a less expensive option to make a claim as a buyer, as long as adequate insurance has been arranged by the seller, than pay the return shipping to the US from the UK for instance.

Have a dialog with the seller with regard to how you want the item to be prepared/packed - e.g.engage locking screws, use bubble wrap, styrofoam peanuts, double-boxing.  Tell him to insure it to proper value and to mark the box Fragile.  If the box arrives damaged, I'd open it in the presence of the carrier.  Take photos and keep all packing material - often the shipping company will want to see this.  And some things don't travel well - e.g. I'd think long and hard about purchasing a turntable from overseas.

Details from Ebay, might differ from country to country:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/shipping-problems.html

(sorry, no link window opening in IE)

Whenever I sell fragile stuff I pack a box in a box etc., put fragile Stickers on the outer box.
I also take lots of photos of the packing procedure and mail  these to the buyer.

Ralf

Thanks for the link Ralf,

Pretty black and white then, it would appear that in ebay's eyes, it is the sellers responsibility all the way up until the safe undamaged arrival at the buyers address.

If an item's original packaging is retained, why should there be a problem with subsequent shipping?

EBay rather complicates things for the seller, but that apart, surely it's all very simple. The seller has a contract with the postal or courier service unless the buyer has arranged his own courier. 

If the item arrives damaged or is lost the buyer's contract is with the seller for a refund, and the seller should pursue his contract with the postal service. Postal services often include basic insurance amounts or let you pay for additional cover, but that's all for the seller to sort out. If the seller asked the buyer to pay for insurance but didn't take it out, then that's fraud. The buyer needs to advise the seller very quickly of any problems so that he can contact the postal service within any time limit they specify. If the buyer signs for the item as received undamaged he will have a problem.

I stand to be corrected by one of the many attorneys or lawyers who frequent Beoworld!

Graham

There needs to be some onus on the receiver of packages. What most people don't realise is that when you sign for a parcel, you are signing that you have received the item in good condition. You are also signing that you no longer require the item to be insured, absolving the carrier of their responsibility!

This is very important, and I think it's very unfair that a seller has to rely on a buyer to sign responsibly. I think a buyer signing that they've received an item in good condition should go some way to protecting a seller of their responsibility, and their obligation to refund a buyer for an item damaged in transit.

If the buyer buys an item and pays for shipping, the buyer should also be responsible for claiming against the carrier regardless of whether the buyer or seller arranges for the shipment.

Just to round this one off nicely, I finally made my overseas purchase from an ebay seller in Greece (onlymint-av), of a Beomaster 6000, (the 80's one) and it arrived safely, in full working order and the shipping was free to the UK !!. In fact the Receiver looks brand new and the care taken over packaging was exceptional. All your comments gave me the confidence to go ahead, thanks.

MediaBobNY:

Have a dialog with the seller with regard to how you want the item to be prepared/packed - e.g.engage locking screws, use bubble wrap, styrofoam peanuts, double-boxing.  Tell him to insure it to proper value and to mark the box Fragile.

This is a nice idea but assumes you're not dealing with a moron. I recently purchased a Beogram 1100 for a friend and emailed the seller requesting all those points you've made above, even offering more money to pay for the extra packaging and ending with a jokey comment like "apologies if you already know all this and wouldn't dream of being daft enough to pack a turntable using nothing more than scrunched up newspaper!".

Well, the deck duly arrives and the suspension is bouncing, the cartridge is in place, the platter is in place, the arm is unprotected and he'd just stuck it in a box surrounded by newspaper. Whilst I was furious, the remarkable thing was that the deck was unaffected! I knew the lid was broken and the cartridge had no stylus when I bought it (it was clearly advertised as "spares or repair") and nothing else semed to have gone wrong with it.

I was still tempted to leave negative feedback but felt I couldn't really as there were no issues, but I certainly wasn't leaving positive feedback. In the end I went with Neutral and a comment "Turrntable miraculously arrived in one piece despite hopelessly inadequate packaging".

It never fails to annoy me to read of the number of turntables (not just B&O) that end up in pieces because of the idiots who can't or won't package them properly.

Not too sure about some of the other comments. However, as far as I know it makes a difference wether the seller is a private person or a professional. If the seller is a dealer, transport risk is the seller's risk. However, if you buy from a private person, I think it's quite difficult to prosecute the seller. You may be rightly annoyed and everything but after all a buyer must be aware and knowingly accepts the risk when buying on ebay from a private person. At least that's the way I know it. Insurances are worth absolutely nothing from my experience.

Greetings