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This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I am having sound quality problems with my Beogram 4002.
Two weeks ago I noticed the highs were not quite right so I decided to clean the stylus, which turned out not to be dirty. None the less I cleaned it but in re-inserting the MMC20CL the socket pushed into the tonearm.
This is old news and that problem is solved. However in gluing the socket in place I decided to use a new and thinner super glue that adhered instantly preventing me from pushing the socket into proper position.
I then used super glue remover and eventually with a LOT of pulling and tugging got the socket out. Careful as I was the tonearm got pulled and pushed in all directions.
Once the socket was back in place everything was fine for 4 days.
This morning I went to play a record and the sound quality was TERRIBLE. I tried all the “expected” tricks: raising the tonearm repeatedly, playing different tracks, but to no avail. The sound was just awful.
I then tried exchanging cartridges and found a MMC 6000 I had forgotten I had. (That kind of made my day by itself….) However the MMC 6000 sounded exactly like the MMC20CL…. BAD.
OK, so it is not the cartridge.
I then checked the DIN connection, but not there either.
Yet there is more, just before writing this message I tried the 4002 and it sounds fine, the highs are slightly off, but nothing to complain about.
So I am thinking it is either a balance issue or a lubrication issue.
Now before someone asks, “Why don’t you just reset the balance and lube the tonearm,” there is a reason. I have 6 Beograms and this 4002 is by FAR the most difficult and problematic to adjust. The 4000 is a walk in the park next to this 4002 for adjustments. Fix one thing and two things go out of adjustment.
As such I an reluctant to touch ANYTHING I don’t have to.
My plan for the weekend is first try lubrication and if that doesn’t work, reset the tonearm balance.
But just in case there is something else I should know…. but don’t, please let me know.
Thanks, as always!
Jeff
Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century, S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase, B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder
Sorry to hear about your troubles, but if you moved around a lot with the socket you may have problems with broken wires. The fast reacting Super Glues are also very penetrating, this may also cause problems from my point of view, these kind of glues takes a lot of time to harden in enclosures, so that MAY be your 4 days delay. I really hope it is not either of these, but something more simple. Thumps up.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
Hi Søren,
Always good to receive your input.
Yes the super glues are penetrating for sure. However I was operating under the precise instructions of Benny who stressed the importance of putting just a little glue on the sides and bottom, but NONE on the top near the connection.
Martin and my good B&O buddy in California also advised using some form of super glue to keep the socket in place.
Right now I have Heintje Simons blasting away and the 4002 sounds superb as does the Beomaster 2400. (Off subject but Benny certainly does excellent work!) And yes I know that no one in our group likes Heintje, but I do….
So if it was the glue eating into the wire insulation the 4002 wouldn’t be playing well…. that it wouldn’t be an intermittent problem, as it is.
I am very much open to the wisdom of our group, but at the moment I suspect this is a lubrication problem exacerbated by all that yanking on the tonearm.
Backing up; the sound was SO bad I even suspected the unthinkable, an amplifier failure. Yep, it was that bad. Of course there is nothing wrong with the Beomaster 2400.
I checked everything, as I mentioned, but I couldn’t get the horrendous sound to go away. It was nice however, finding a second MMC 6000.
If I am right, what happened was the tonearm was prevented from lowering to the proper level and was just barely skimming the record. This would account for the rotten sound and the skitterish tracking that was also going on.
It doesn’t quite make sense to me that I did so much in an attempt to get the distortion to go away and nothing worked. Trust me I was determined.
Then a few hours later I tried the 4002 again on a caprice and without having done anything, the problem disappeared.
As Martin would tell us, it is better to have a hard failure as a intermittent problem can be hard to track down. If it turns out that all I needed was a few drops of oil, I sure will be a happy camper.
We’ll see….
Back to every technician’s motto: “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” Well the rotten sound has disappeared through absolutely no effort on my part. Søren, Martin, or Jacques would no doubt HAVE to investigate what caused this malady to occur, but I am content that it has subsided.
I admit I am completely befogged as to what happened, both the cause and the remedy, but there is no arguing with success and the Beogram 4002 is up and running good as new.
I mean I cleaned the stylus, exchanged it for a MMC 6000, tapped vigorously on the tonearm, pulled and pushed on the tonearm, tried different records, and “exercised” the tone arm with multiple lifts and drops….. all to NO effect, nothing.
I was all set for a new “project” this weekend, while hoping and praying that Søren’s prediction that the super glue was compromising the wires hadn’t materialized and decided for the hell of it to play a record….. I really don’t know why I did that as I KNEW the sound would be atrocious, but it wasn’t.
I was stunned and just stared at the 4002 in disbelief. I figured this must be a fluke because generally I am not that lucky, but half a dozen different records, tracks played, etc. and no reoccurrence of the dreadful sound.
A weird but welcome scenario.
´Good news indeed, and yes I would have run through the whole sound pad if it happened to me. Now enjoy Heintje
Yes, the news is good, but…… it is like being slightly pregnant, either you are or you are not.
In this case the sound is SO close to being right, but I know what this 4002 is capable of, and it is just slightly off.
Some plays are spot-on, but like the last record I played there is this tiny crackle in the upper range.
It could be the suspension has begun hardening, but I rather doubt it as this came on so suddenly and is intermittent.
My best guess is, as I have already said, a lubrication issue that formerly didn’t allow the tonearm to drop nearly enough, now just holding it back a micron, or the balance is off ever so slightly and is tracking too light.
The 4000 series Beogram with a MMC20CL is such a marvelous instrument. I really can’t have it be off like this.
Because it is so darn close, it may settle down to where it should be with usage, if not I will be doing what you would have done.
Heintje was great but I have since moved on to Udo Jürgens and Peter Alexander.
Piaf:Heintje was great but I have since moved on to Udo Jürgens and Peter Alexander.
If you try Peter Kraus oder Gitte Hænning, I am sure the sound will be just right-
Piaf: My best guess is, as I have already said, a lubrication issue that formerly didn’t allow the tonearm to drop nearly enough, now just holding it back a micron, or the balance is off ever so slightly and is tracking too light.
Hi Jeff,
I was thinking along the same lines. Lubrication is everything. Some records are also thicker than others. And you fiddled a lot with this arm!
Can you cue the arm down just before it reaches the record, then check it is completely free between your fingers? Perhaps you can use a piece of paper to move it up and see whether there is some resistance.
Jacques
This is a difficult one. Right now the 4002 is performing perfectly, but I have this nagging feeling that the tonearm would benefit from a spot of lubrication regardless of the performance.
What holds me back, as I have said but have NO way to properly explain is how truly terrible this 4002 to adjust. It is an absolute Machiavellian cauchemar.
I do the same work on either my 4000 or 4004 and one or two attempts and the job is done. Not so this 4002, which would indicate excessive wear as the culprit, but that is not the case.
At least I don’t need to be touching the adjustments on tonearm lowering and pick-up. If I ever need to work on them I am going to have one of Søren’s double Cubans first…. maybe two.
Thanks Jacques for your input which increases my motivation to “take a chance” on disturbing this sleeping giant which a needed lubrication.
I checked the 4002 for tonearm freedom of motion and it seems fine.
I adjusted the pressure setting slightly and am pleased with the results.
I did however notice the cartridge had slipped slightly and was at an angle. (I will need to keep an eye on this.)
While I do not believe I need lubrication, if I do, how do you lubricate the tonearm? I checked the manual and found no instructions.
I don’t want to risk damaging a working 4002 not knowing how to get at the lubrication point.
Thanks guys!
If the tonearm is perfectly free to move I would leave it well alone.
However, if you want to sleep on both ears and discard this last ounce of doubt, then you will have to disassemble the arm completely to clean the parts thoroughly. There is no other way, and that is what I did on my Beograms.
Now I understand this is a ghastly procedure, most definitely not for the faint-hearted - my own heart is fine thank you! - and that is probably why there is nothing about it in the service manual. A bit like taking apart the motor of the CD50.
I'm pretty sure I described the operation in the archived forum!
There: http://archivedarchivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/p/37107/307987.aspx#307987
Hi Jacques,
After your vivid description of the process of taking the tonearm apart, I have little enthusiasm for doing so, especially as it appears to be fine.
Besides I am a bit distracted by my Seeburg jukebox which suddenly began eating records, literally slicing tiny pieces of black vinyl off my 45’s. I wasn’t amused!
Did a thorough lubrication, adjusted the tonearm balance weight and things got considerably better, but there is still something more.
It is always something with vintage electronics.
Thanks for your input!