ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
butch1:Geoff,car audio aside,why has it took so long for B&o to bring more dsp speakers to the range?
Hi,
I'm not sure that I understand the meaning of this question. If you're asking why we didn't release DSP-based loudspeakers before BeoLab 5 - then I can't give you an answer, since that goes back to a time before I started working here.
If you're asking something else, could you please clarify the question.
Cheers
-geoff
Geoff-
While we have you in this thread, I've always been curious what your thoughts are about the BeoLab 1. The BeoLab 1 seems to be perhaps the most controversial speaker from B&O. People either love it or hate it. Many find it to be a very crisp and "precise" speaker. While others find the precision to be TOO perfect and perhaps even describe it as cold and clinical. As tonmeister, what are you thoughts about the BeoLab 1?
Jeff,over the years I have demoed many CD players,and transports and dacs,in a home setting.I am not interested in reviews and lab tests,my ears are my judge.
I still think to this day that the linn cd12 was the best sounding CD player I have heard,but was surpassed by my linn klimax ds,so it shows how technology has involved.I follow the linn path of source first,but that's me.I bought my 9000 as its a piece of art along with 8000s, not for the sound quality.
My question to Geoff was,if he has been involved in dsp systems for 13 years with B&o,why have they only got beolab 5 and 20 as full digital active dsp models.B&o expertise in dsp lies with automotive systems at this stage,were as meridians is home based,just my opinion.
Also like I have said,I am a B&o owner for years and will continue to be,and if they brought out a system that would be better than my linn exakt,I would change in a flash.I like simple well designed matching systems, that's why I love active designs from B&o,meridian and linn only.
butch1: Jeff,over the years I have demoed many CD players,and transports and dacs,in a home setting.I am not interested in reviews and lab tests,my ears are my judge. I still think to this day that the linn cd12 was the best sounding CD player I have heard,but was surpassed by my linn klimax ds,so it shows how technology has involved.I follow the linn path of source first,but that's me.I bought my 9000 as its a piece of art along with 8000s, not for the sound quality. My question to Geoff was,if he has been involved in dsp systems for 13 years with B&o,why have they only got beolab 5 and 20 as full digital active dsp models.B&o expertise in dsp lies with automotive systems at this stage,were as meridians is home based,just my opinion. Also like I have said,I am a B&o owner for years and will continue to be,and if they brought out a system that would be better than my linn exakt,I would change in a flash.I like simple well designed matching systems, that's why I love active designs from B&o,meridian and linn only.
All of the recent WISA speakers, such as BL18, are "full digital active dsp models".
Ban boring signatures!
butch1:Jeff,over the years I have demoed many CD players,and transports and dacs,in a home setting.I am not interested in reviews and lab tests,my ears are my judge. I still think to this day that the linn cd12 was the best sounding CD player I have heard,but was surpassed by my linn klimax ds,so it shows how technology has involved.I follow the linn path of source first,but that's me.I bought my 9000 as its a piece of art along with 8000s, not for the sound quality. My question to Geoff was,if he has been involved in dsp systems for 13 years with B&o,why have they only got beolab 5 and 20 as full digital active dsp models.B&o expertise in dsp lies with automotive systems at this stage,were as meridians is home based,just my opinion. Also like I have said,I am a B&o owner for years and will continue to be,and if they brought out a system that would be better than my linn exakt,I would change in a flash.I like simple well designed matching systems, that's why I love active designs from B&o,meridian and linn only.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Puncher: butch1: My question to Geoff was,if he has been involved in dsp systems for 13 years with B&o,why have they only got beolab 5 and 20 as full digital active dsp models.B&o expertise in dsp lies with automotive systems at this stage,were as meridians is home based,just my opinion. All of the recent WISA speakers, such as BL18, are "full digital active dsp models".
butch1: My question to Geoff was,if he has been involved in dsp systems for 13 years with B&o,why have they only got beolab 5 and 20 as full digital active dsp models.B&o expertise in dsp lies with automotive systems at this stage,were as meridians is home based,just my opinion.
Read about the development process here:
http://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/2013/11/27/bo-tech-loudspeaker-development-process/
Or how about the:
BeoLit 12, the BeoVision 11 series, the BeoVision 12, and the BeoVision Avant, the BeoLab 12-1, 12-2, 12-3, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19. and (as butch1 mentioned) 20, the BeoPlay V1
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Chris Townsend:If you want a B&O speaker that can match Linn or Meridian, you wait is nearly over......... Beovision 7-55 Mk2, Beovision 8-32, Avant RF 28, Beolab 8000, Beolit 12, Beoplay A2, Beocom 2, Beotime, H6, Form 2.
Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5
Razlaw:Are you saying there is a new speaker about to be unveiled?
Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)
Razlaw: a new speaker
.........or possibly the new speaker!!!
Michael: Razlaw: Are you saying there is a new speaker about to be unveiled? I'm invited to an event later this month.
Razlaw: Are you saying there is a new speaker about to be unveiled?
Are you saying there is a new speaker about to be unveiled?
I'm invited to an event later this month.
Which kind of event?
Did they 'tease' in any way - since you mention 'an event' in this context?
Michael:I'm invited to an event later this month.
vlohjr1: The only one I am invited this month is the love affair collection
The only one I am invited this month is the love affair collection
Me too!
Fascinating news! I guess I should hold off on the new pair of 20s I was looking at.
Chris Townsend:Let's just hope your wallet is six times bigger!
Surely you're joking... but your earlier comment "Beolab 5's as satellites" may justify the one above... WOWZA! I can't way to see what B&O have in store. And then avalanche of armchair criticism, of which I'm sure I'll have a bit.
butch1:✂️ I still think to this day that the linn cd12 was the best sounding CD player I have heard,but was surpassed by my linn klimax ds,so it shows how technology has involved.I follow the linn path of source first,but that's me.I bought my 9000 as its a piece of art along with 8000s, not for the sound quality.✂️ Also like I have said,I am a B&o owner for years and will continue to be,and if they brought out a system that would be better than my linn exakt,I would change in a flash.I like simple well designed matching systems, that's why I love active designs from B&o,meridian and linn only.
BeoNut since '75
Chris Townsend:Bigger and better than even most audiophiles could wish for, but they'll still hate it because it won't look wooden and boxy! But not too big
But not too big
Although I have to say I've always been fond of the look of huge horns like that, especially the modern looking ones, as well as large tube amps with the tubes exposed. A different aesthetic to B&O but cool all the same.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Now I understand why I didn't understand the question... Your list of B&O speakers with DSP has some holes in it...
Millemissen:Or how about the: BeoLit 12, the BeoVision 11 series, the BeoVision 12, and the BeoVision Avant, the BeoLab 12-1, 12-2, 12-3, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19. and (as butch1 mentioned) 20, the BeoPlay V1
Thanks for the list, MM!
As I said in an earlier reply in this thread - all of the loudspeakers I have help to work on since I started in the A/V division at B&O. Thanks to you, I have the list. Maybe I should get you to proof-read my resumé the next time I update it. ;-)
By the way, you forgot the BeoPlay A9...
There are also the ones I haven't worked on - like the BeoPlay A2 and the BeoLit 15. Even the H8 headphones have some DSP-based filtering in there...
-g
Barry Santini: BeoBoy68: Asking myself when we will see new loudspeakers in Bang & Olufsen's range ? Is allways Geoff Martin working for B&O ? There were rumors last spring of him leaving for Sony. But his active participation here and on hi so blog with bno postings suggests probably not. I can't wait for the 5 replacement. If that one can hit 10hz with only a -3db roll off, I'll be in organ heaven! B
BeoBoy68: Asking myself when we will see new loudspeakers in Bang & Olufsen's range ? Is allways Geoff Martin working for B&O ?
Asking myself when we will see new loudspeakers in Bang & Olufsen's range ?
Is allways Geoff Martin working for B&O ?
There were rumors last spring of him leaving for Sony. But his active participation here and on hi so blog with bno postings suggests probably not.
I can't wait for the 5 replacement. If that one can hit 10hz with only a -3db roll off, I'll be in organ heaven!
B
B&O better get their act together because there's an eminent threat on the ocean front with the name of Devialet backed by LVMH...
beojeff: Geoff- While we have you in this thread, I've always been curious what your thoughts are about the BeoLab 1. The BeoLab 1 seems to be perhaps the most controversial speaker from B&O. People either love it or hate it. Many find it to be a very crisp and "precise" speaker. While others find the precision to be TOO perfect and perhaps even describe it as cold and clinical. As tonmeister, what are you thoughts about the BeoLab 1?
Sorry. I'm not going to answer that question, since I never talk about my personal preferences on BeoWorld. I'm only here to clear up technical information..
However, from your description, I don't think that those people are disagreeing - they're only discussing personal taste. I like cream and sugar in my coffee because it makes the coffee taste creamier and sweeter. Some people will argue that the problem with cream and sugar is that it makes the coffee taste creamier and sweeter...
Razlaw: Beolab 9 compared to Beolab 20
Beolab 9 compared to Beolab 20
Anyone about the original question? I confess am curious about this topic
Geoff Martin: Millemissen:Or how about the: BeoLit 12, the BeoVision 11 series, the BeoVision 12, and the BeoVision Avant, the BeoLab 12-1, 12-2, 12-3, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19. and (as butch1 mentioned) 20, the BeoPlay V1 Thanks for the list, MM! As I said in an earlier reply in this thread - all of the loudspeakers I have help to work on since I started in the A/V division at B&O. Thanks to you, I have the list. Maybe I should get you to proof-read my resumé the next time I update it. ;-) By the way, you forgot the BeoPlay A9... There are also the ones I haven't worked on - like the BeoPlay A2 and the BeoLit 15. Even the H8 headphones have some DSP-based filtering in there... Cheers -g
Dear Geoff,
you don't have to credit me for 'the list' - actually it was snatched from a text, that you yourself wrote:
http://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/about/
That way it was quite easy for me to post it.
Sorry for letting out the A9
Still - I think the (incomplete) list was pretty impressive!
P.S.
For those, who want to know more about DSP in the speakers (and in the audio part of the BSys4 engine) of B&O ------- just go to the Geoff blog site, and type in 'DSP' in the search field.
Lots to read and to learn.
I am not talking about television speakers and I will stand by my statement,the lab 20s and 5s are the only ones on the list capable of competing with meridian.
I have a beiplay a8 and beosound 8 but they don't sound as good as an older meridian f80,but I prefer the b&o look.
To Chris with the audiophile wooden box comment,have you ever looked at piano black klimax 350a and seen the build quality and looks but more importantly the sound is in a different league.
mm dont you work with Geoff? with them comments I am sure you do.
I look forward to it Chris.
butch1: I am not talking about television speakers and I will stand by my statement,the lab 20s and 5s are the only ones on the list capable of competing with meridian.
Let me say, I've not heard the new B&O yet, and haven't heard meridian in a while, but I can believe that you're right. When you get to the B&O products below the 9/20 and 5, there are more compromises made to function to conform to form, although I think for what each is size wise and design they do exceptionally well. But in comparison with a company that puts the function part of the form/function relation as much more important, yeah, I can see where some lower range Beolabs won't be as good sonically. I will also say that, put in a room with the same care and attention to placement and room acoustics, which few in general and perhaps more B&O users on average don't do, they can be better than you think. I've had my old BL8000s set up in a smaller room with good acoustics, the room also had a lot of bass lift due to its size which helped the 8000s a lot, but setup well they sounded far better than even I thought they would. Imaging, depth, and midrange were all stunningly good, which is what a lot of mini monitors aim for. They were like very good minimonitors you didn't need stands for.
You made another comment about hearing differences, I dont' doubt that you do, I've heard what I would have described as very large differences between different components. I've also had the sobering experience of seeing my ability to tell these differences go away in controlled tests. I don't know for the items you describe if there are differences that would make them sonically different enough to survive a rigorous test, maybe so. However if so I believe it will be measurable and understandable. Different designers have different ideas, say in digital, as to how the sampling and post reconstruction filtering should be done, and different ideas about noise, power supply design, analog output stages, etc. Some play the game, some do what they do because they seriously believe it's a superior technical approach. And it may be, it just seems to seldom make a truly detectable difference in sound, perhaps because the human ear is not nearly as good a test tool as some electronics, they can detect things people can never hear, very small changes in distortion, etc.
But it keeps the arguments and discussions constantly ongoing, so everyone gets an opportunity at an Internet social life! The LP vs. CD brouhaha is still ongoing after30 odd years.
A dealer today told me no new speaker until next year. But we here in the US are probably the last to know about something new from B and O. LOL
I am very curious to see what the new speaker is and how soon it will be revealed.
Are the invitations mentioned here for unveiling to the public of private dealer previews?
Sorry wanted to edit last post but edit function does not work. Anybody else having problems with editing?
Are the invitations mentioned here for unveiling to the public or private dealer previews?
elephant:I believe the invitations are from dealers to existing clients for the anniversary announcements such as the rose gold range
Exactly!
Nothing new - just a celebration...
....and the rose gold coloured products.
Rose Gold... I expected at least real gold plating...
Chris Townsend:I must have got a different Devialet. The one I saw just sold a subwoofer and some amps Which one does WISA speakers, a range of integrated televisions, headphones and AirPlay speakers?
Which one does WISA speakers, a range of integrated televisions, headphones and AirPlay speakers?
Wasn't a subwoofer you saw. It's a WiFi speaker you saw on the website.
wonderfulelectric: Chris Townsend:I must have got a different Devialet. The one I saw just sold a subwoofer and some amps Which one does WISA speakers, a range of integrated televisions, headphones and AirPlay speakers? Wasn't a subwoofer you saw. It's a WiFi speaker you saw on the website.
You think Bernard Arnault is going to let Devialet stay as a specialty amp manufacturer? It's amplifiers are largely software driven so think about the implications...
wonderfulelectric:Rose Gold... I expected at least real gold plating...