ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I quite enjoyed reading the vinyl thread and the merits or not of both, however it got me thinking - Yes digital is great but have we lost something socially because of it?
A few weeks ago I was in Norwich which has a massive student population and seemingly good vinyl stores - outside a cafe was a student with his coffee, carefully taking out a record he must have just bought, inspected it, carefully put it back in its sleeve and then read the covers - now that is something you will never get from digital, no matter how superior or not it allegedly is. The care and creativeness that went into creating some covers is imho unique to analogue, the joy of finally tracking down something you have been looking for for years is something unique to analogue as it is not instantly available. In any case the millions that are now enjoying it again cannot be a bad thing for anyone.
In the analogue days people listened to music on a wide variety of equipment ranging from record players, cheap radios to high end hifi and still enjoyed the music, in fact it brought people together through the "Top 20", discussions at work on music and bands.
The same is true of TV, the limited choice in both meant that it was more of a social thing with people sharing the experience. The expense of buying a TV meant that there was usually one and it was watched by the whole family, with decision on what to watch taken as a group. Those days are gone with digital and the massive choice it has given us and people preferring to listen or watch in isolation with headphones or on their own systems.
The huge choice with internet radio, internet tv, netflix etc means we have what we want when we want it.
Maybe the interest back in vinyl is the start of more social sharing of music and views.
I dont think anyone would want to go back to analogue per say but I do wonder what other peoples views are on the social impact of the digital age? Is there any correlation to the fact that more and more people are now living on their own. Or are we at the stage of learning how to control the digital age and that;s why analogue is seeing such a revival with young people who have lived in isolation with their iPods? Have we reached a turning point, or is it a fad. Is the revival driven by something much deeper?
There was a good program on BBC recently looking at food and our relationship with it, interestingly small independent high street butchers, bakers, fishmongers and grocers are also seeing a revival as people are starting to take an interest now in shopping locally and just buying the heavy groceries and foodstuffs on line or from a supermarket. Perhaps society in some quarters is changing and people are starting to do more stuff socially, more aware of the need for quality and spending time cooking, rather than throwing a ready meal into a microwave
Anyway, only my thought on the whole thing and I am only talking generally - plenty of people still have film nights and music nights, and plenty of families still all watch TV together. Just interested in what other people think and their views. Digital is inevitable but how are we managing it and is the revival part of a much wider social change?
Hi Andrew,
a very good question and it will give rise to a variety of answers, all of which will have differing but valid opinions. Much like the vinyl debate.
Yes, digital is here and is to stay in part due to the massive storage capabilities, access, portability etc.etc. However, as a whole, I don't think we are managing our use of it properly. We all use it but at what cost? Look around and see nearly everyone with either a phone to their ear - making calls that probably aren't really necessary, texting rubbish to each other, Tweeting what most aren't really interested in, Facebooking to try and outdo their mates or earn a bob or two from Vlogs.
But, how many people are actually 'communicating'? Nobody seems to chat on trains or buses anymore. I try to talk to people on the train and get some very strange looks - 'why does he want to talk to a stranger'? Well, that's because I'm interested in other people and like to try to be sociable. The digital revolution to my mind has helped to start the death knell of sociability and the creation of social skills in the younger generation. The young particularly don't know how to communicate properly, cannot spell due to the overuse of texting/abbreviating everything and social studies have backed this up.
No doubt, the technology has helped break divides - also created more. It has allowed people access to things they need or want, but also to things that some people should not be exposed to - i.e. pornography or beheading videos to juveniles (parental control lacking by irresponsible parents). It has made the World a smaller, more accessible place and if used properly can be fantstic. In many cases it has raised social awareness of issues that in the past would have gone unnoticed.
Analogue still has its place - in vinyl, or even in paper form for books. That is another debate between digital books and the feel, smell of paper etc.
I leave the debate to others and watch with interest. Sent digitally from my PC whilst my iPad charges and is backed up to the Cloud (wherever that is?)
Dave.
You loose something and you gain something.
With new possibilities, you will have to learn how to deal with these (which is obvisiously the task of the future).
New (digital based) technology (like access to digital music sources, tablets etc etc) can lead to a loss in social relations.
But it can also be the start for new relations/types of relations - it depends on us!
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
BeoNut since '75
great discussion...
although technology brings a huge number of benefits as we all know it is strange having the ability to have "anything" the next day... I always get amazed when I purchase off say Amazon on a Sunday night and have it delivered on the Monday or the quality and sound of a film that is streamed in "real time" but somedays it does leave me feeling hollow but at the same time wowed.
when I started out on my music journey I listened to mainly pirate radio stations like Caroline and did not own much physical until I could save up enough to buy my first tape player (and headphones as this was the only way I could use my parents HiFi), my local record shop was too stuck up for my music genre so I would have to travel to the nearest major town to visit one of those very cool record shops where I held all the staff in awe or purchase via mail order which normally took 28+days to dispatch. So owning the physical item has always meant something special.
today I went to a regular London record fair in search for a particular vinyl album that I have been hunting for over 30+ years, I have spotted it on e-bay once or twice but felt that was too easy, it has even been re-issued on iTunes but again something deep inside feels this is wrong approach. Whilst searching the racks and racks of chaotically catalogued vinyl I was wearing my bluetooth headphones streaming music from the cloud.
I'm an early adopter of technology and ideas but I also try and stay grounded at the same time...... not sure what that makes me
we tend to forget there is more to design than designing.
Offtopic - but do tell us which album, you are so heavy looking for.
its a 1972 live album called Greasy Truckers Party; recorded at the Roundhouse London and featured just 3 bands, the original album pressing was 20,000 copies.
on the flip I also buy alot of music from america via podcast recommendations which I would have never been introduced to, so although there is no social interaction of say the record store my mind has been opened up to a wider music base via an anti-social form of interaction !
This one you mean?:
http://www.discogs.com/sell/release/2225587?ev=rb
I might get a copy too. Just my cup of tes. Hawkwind tracks are two of my favourites. Saw them Live atthe Manchester Free Trade Hall in the 70's.
And now we see one of the positive social aspects of using digital technology! I hope you get a good copy.
I'm going off topic now - I've been looking for a compilation album called Group 64 for years - I remember some friends of my parents having it when i was a kid - I dont think I can even remember all the songs that are on it - but to get it again would be wonderful. I did manage to get a single of "master jack" by four jacks and a jill - that was a few years ago but I had been looking for maybe 15 years, I bought it in the early days of eBay and had it sent from Germany. Playing it after not hearing the song for what must have been 30 years was moving as it brought back many memories of childhood. It's on iTunes now and I can listen to it whenever I want but nothing will replace that moment of it arriving in the post after such a long search.
Other music I want straight away and buy it from iTunes and Internet Radio is great for discovering new music.
Ha, just looked on eBay as I hadn't looked for that album for ages - and found it - now I am bidding on it!
Andrew:Ha, just looked on eBay as I hadn't looked for that album for ages - and found it - now I am bidding on it!
Have a look on Discogs, they have what might be the copy for £1.38 at the moment:
http://www.discogs.com/Various-Featuring-Jellybabies2-Young-Ones14-Telstars8-PostcardsAnd-Group-X-Group-64/master/500848
Lots of others from the same band too.
Fantastic, thanks for the link, that;s the album - amazing, will log into that
Dave Farr: And now we see one of the positive social aspects of using digital technology! I hope you get a good copy. Dave.
This was initiated through a good old analog trick - I simply asked the question!
Glad that it helped Mark to reach the end of a long journey.
I - as a non collector - am looking forward to lsten to the 3 CD-version on WiMP Premium.
More than 3 hours of goodies.
Inded a result of using modern digital technology - I love it.
It always amuses me when people discuss how we aren't talking to each other any more when we're out and about. "Everyone's glued to their mobile phone, nobody's interacting."
This is not a new phenomenon. When I was at university in the 1980's, nobody interacted then. The only difference is we were all listening to our portable cassette players instead of texting on our mobile phones.
I guess I'm somewhere in between the two extremes mentioned here. I regular attend the local monthly record show, but I rarely buy any records. Instead, I buy CDs. Unfortunately, I haven't gotten any great finds, so it's off to ebay for me.
My recent CD order (new material) is ELP's Trilogy (2 CD & 1 DVD), Jethro Tull's Minstrel in the Gallery (2 CD & 2 DVD), and Fairport Convention's latest studio release.
I do download via torrent sites BUT I'm downloading officially unreleased material (concerts, documentaries, demos, alt. takes, etc.) If there is an official release, I want that, preferably on CD.
I like physical copies as I know it hasn't been compressed and can't easily be lost due to hardware failure. I also like to look though the liner notes to see who wrote what and who played what. It's also fun to read some of the ZTT reissues with their little notes in unusual plates.
I don't have any kind of MP3 player, and I almost always play a full-length recording through from start to finish.
D
Doonesbury: My recent CD order (new material) is ELP's Trilogy (2 CD & 1 DVD), Jethro Tull's Minstrel in the Gallery (2 CD & 2 DVD), and Fairport Convention's latest studio release. D
Hi Doonesbury,
thanks for mentioning the new Fairport Convention release.
Although they are one long time favourite bands of mine, I missed that out.
Found it on WiMP (Premium)/Tidal and am looking forward to listening to it later today.
It don't have to possess that as a physical copy - I've already spend far too much money buying Fairport CD's
As for the Tull's new MitG release. That is already on my wishlist - probably can't wait long before buying....
Jethro Tull/Ian Anderson is one of my other long time favourites too.
This release is remixed/remastered by Steven Wilson.
Steven Wilson has done (is still doing) an excellent job remixing/-mastering the Tull albums!
The CD/FLAC (stereo) version will be on WiMP/Tidal too.
However, for me - apart from the new remix/remastering - the most import part is the 5.1mix.
For now the only way to get to listen to the 5.1 mix is buying a physical disc.
So that is what I'll do - having a reasonable 5.1 B&O setup makes listening to that very easy.
Imo - this is an example of how 'social relations' may work in the 'digital age'.
Doonesbury and I don't know each other, but we are somehow connected anyway
So thanks again for mentioning your recent orders here!