ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
What would you say to that?
As an add on to Essence MkII and Beoplay A9.
Would you pay for it to run it from your tablet/smartphone? Can't believe B&O did not consider releasing it as a separate premium app.
And how is that supposed to work
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Like a superpowered BeoMusic app.
More integrative with Deezer and TuneIn. Streaming to Essence and A9.
NB: My understanding it this is how it runs now on Moment's generic 7" tablet?
PP and MW are not just 'software functions', but a part of the software running on the SoundHeart hardware/the audio engine.
Now we're into semantics. LOL Difference between software function and part of software is... ...what?
Or to revert it: what makes you believe that won't be possible? Do you believe that either PatternPlay or MoodWheel rely on hardware part of Moment? Or are they software-only features?
Because if they are software-only, there is no barrier (apart from deliberate decision) to release them as a standalone app, right?
@BeoBoy68: I would pay 199 EUR in a heartbeat. :) Honestly.
How would you play back, what you could process in the app/this kind of app?
Are you content with playing back from the iDevice/Android device?
I play it this very moment on my A9, via BeoMusic. Inferior by far to what PP and MW provide.
Would I prefer to have Moment? Yes. But Moment's magic (my personal view) is not in the SoundHeart but rather in supersexy SW that processess our listening patterns.
Why not capitalizing on it, even from people who do not own (and might not ever own) B&O sound system?
In 1977, exclusivity was B&O's name of the game and that philosophy worked well then. Today B&O is looking for an investor, so... ...a bit of intelligent adjustment might be effective. ;)
Surely you could make an app with features like what MW and PP offer.
There are other app, that work similar.
Using similar algorithms would give you some of the feel, you seem to be looking for.
However, I am not quite sure, if Deezer and TuneIN would agree with an integration in such an app?.
But why should B&O do that?
MW and PP is part of the BeoSound Moment, and BS Moment is meant to be a player, that integrates with other B&O Product (just think of the coming multiroom functions).
The guys from B&O have tried to explain, why a modern BeoSound should work this way - some agree and others disagree (as we have seen in the threads on the forum).
An app with some of the features (the MW and the PP), which (apart from off the device itself) can only be played back via AirPlay, might satisfy you, but would certainly not be, what B&O has intended with using these algoritms.
I am not sure they would capitalize from it - it might even cannibalize their B&O business.
AnalogPlanet:I play it this very moment on my A9, via BeoMusic. Inferior by far to what PP and MW provide. Would I prefer to have Moment? Yes. But Moment's magic (my personal view) is not in the SoundHeart but rather in supersexy SW that processess our listening patterns. Why not capitalizing on it, even from people who do not own (and might not ever own) B&O sound system? In 1977, exclusivity was B&O's name of the game and that philosophy worked well then. Today B&O is looking for an investor, so... ...a bit of intelligent adjustment might be effective. ;)
MM: you are right, yes it could cannibalize on sales of Moment. But, it can also bring incremental sales where otherwise B&O would not sell full Moment system. Should B&O take a plunge? Don't know, depends on how good current sales is.
Dogmatic sales approach certainly does not belong in modern market. Even less in future market.
This story reminds me btw very much of Nintendo stubbornly refusing to release first-party games on mobile platforms. Let's see for how long. ;)
As a direct answer to your initial question - I would certainly not pay 199 € for such an app!
Thanks, appreciated. :)
Along the way you tried to present the idea as either technically impossible (but you failed to substantiate why exactly) or not feasible from business perspective (failed at that too).
Quite a lot of effort in vain as an alternative to simply replying with "No, I won't". :)
p.s. What would be your price treshold?
Millemissen:As a direct answer to your initial question - I would certainly not pay 199 € for such an app! MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
BeoNut since '75
Beocat47:The solution was obvious though - all of my music and more was also available from Deezer so I then spent a couple of hours on Deezer selecting hundreds of old and new artists to play through the Moment; this step was a joy in itself, and I've spent the last month rediscovering my love of music. Once I abandoned my attachment to my iTunes collection and overcame my suspicions of this new-fangled technology, my (and my wife's!) love affair with the Moment grew significantly.
I wondered about the same possibility recently, would there be an iPod or android app that might 'imitate' the mood wheel app. I'd probably buy one from B&O if it were available and play it on a spare tablet linked to the aux socket. Not sure how much I'd pay for that, ideally it would need to be able to utilise tunes from an iTunes collection as well as from deezer or similar.
For now I'm using deezer playing on a spare netbook (I didn't use the spare tablet as there didn't seem to be an easy way to block adverts (I'm currently trialling a free accountl) With this in mind it would be worth a reasonable amount of money as a deezer account at 9.99 per month soon adds up.
I have a few playlists I've made , I use deezer during the day in the office and if anything takes my fancy I add it to the appropriate playlist. There are lots of nice playlists already created and if I can't be bothered to actually choose what I want to hear I use these as background music, my own playlists and (god forbid) my cd's and vinyl are used when I want to choose what I hear.
So it is good for background music, not sure how well an algorithm would choose for you, but I'd like to find out. Any suggestions for available apps that do a similar thing?
DJ
Moment owners say that the algorithm in time really starts to show both pattern recognition as well as that mood wheel algorithm actually helps them discover some great new music. In that sense I think that the SW is conceptually very interesting and it improves gradually over time with some very promising results.
Elephant's idea is also interesting: to have a cheaper basic app, and then full algorithms of PP and MW at appropriate (higher) price.
I can even think of people being delighted by Moment's SW on their tablets to start saving for a real-REAL thing, which then also includes WISA etc.
And NB: Deezer's own algorithm is actually inferior to Moment's (with less capabilities, too) and that is why I would not compare them - and why I would so happily pay for the "Moment app".
I figured it would be better on the Moment as its written for the job - nice idea to have a basic version and then upgrade
AnalogPlanet: Deezer's own algorithm is actually inferior to Moment's (with less capabilities, too) and that is why I would not compare them
Indeed I can only confirm this, you can't compare it to the Moment's choice. On the other hand, nor PP or the MW on the Moment has found the real taste of what I like for music. I suppose its my fault, I'm not really predictable in my everyday music choice!
On the other hand, I was in need in the afternoon for some soft relaxing music, I started the Moment's PP and it was giving me immediate a listen to Mocha radio from NZ. Exactly what I wanted today...
Sorry to see that B&O gives so little info on both modes, I would really want an deep insight how it technically exactly works.
"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
@AnalogPlanet
As I wrote above - if you are content with, what an app might give you, feel free. I am not the one to interfer.
You asked the question - 'would you pay...?'. I simply answered 'no!', and really don't need to explain why.
However, I tried to make it clear, that an app running on a tablet is a different kind of solution than, what the concept of the BeoSound Moment offers.
As with any other app, you will need a way to get the content from the tablet/smartphone to a receiving device (a loudspeaker of some kind). That would in the first place limit you (and others) to an iDevice and to AirPlay. There is no solution for Adroid devices, since the only way, they could work, is to 'cast'. There are rather few receiving devices with support for casting - and certainly no B&O devices with that kind of support.
PatternPlay works through constantly calculating what you listen to and when you do it etc. This would mean, that the app should be able to run in the background 24/7. If that is possible and/or wise on an iDevice, I don't know.
The BS Moment is there for the user, whenever he needs it. No need to go looking for the tablet (that might be used for something else and by someone else). No need to find and start the app - no need to choose an AirPlay device from the list on the tablet. Those, who would use the app with an external AirPlay device connected to a BeoSystem, would have to push a button on the remote to open the input for that device....
That does not make much fun!
To push one button on the Jukebox - either in the wheel for PatternPlay or on the display for 'moodwheeling' - and the music starts to play, is what makes fun!
That is the magic of a B&O device/of a BeoSound.
And being able to push one button on the BeoRemote One in order to activate PatternPlay on the BV, the connected speakers or through the NL/ML Converter (and soon on the BeoLink network) is, what makes fun!
Feel free to dream about an app, that may simulate just a bit of this magic.
And the 199 € does not make fun either - I guess only hardcore B&O owners would spend that kind of money on an app for their iDevice.
@MM
Well we share the same view why Moment is by far superior to the hypothetic "Moment App". :) That was clear from the beginning, and I never implied an app could replace Moment.
Now, having part of full Moment's magic at a fraction of price should not be such an extravagant idea either? We have it today, it is called BeoMusic and it is miles away from the "Moment App" I was describing.
So no limits to iDevices nor AirPlay like you said - it could be easily used on all mobile platforms. Not to mention potential combos if Essence Mk2 brings WISA?
Yes, to process my patterns it need to record what I listen - but my BeoMusic App today is also open all the time I listen to something, so the app could process data and write/update some kind of its internal log.
And no, there is no one-button press in the "Moment App" - but hey, it does not cost 2.000 EUR either. :)
I just wonder if Moment's current sales is so owerwhelming that it supports the attitude of "all-or-nothing" exclusivity? Do you really believe that person that wants Moment and can afford it would ever consider just an app? I think never.
On the other side, people not yet able to shell out money for the Moment (and then speakers) could start "superlight" with "Moment App" + Beolit 15 for example.
AnalogPlanet: @MM Well we share the same view why Moment is by far superior to the hypothetic "Moment App". :) That was clear from the beginning, and I never implied an app could replace Moment. Now, having part of full Moment's magic at a fraction of price should not be such an extravagant idea either?
Now, having part of full Moment's magic at a fraction of price should not be such an extravagant idea either?
Perhaps here is where we would disagree.
For you the PP/MW functions seems to be enough.
For me these are (only) bits of the magic of the BS Moment.
(And I must confess, that these aren't the most important bits to me personally - I am an album listener and I don't need a butler to choose my music!)
Whether creating an app with these two functions is possible or not, I can't tell - and will let people with more insight in app programming decide.
Anyway, it will stay an app with the drawbacks (compared to the integration on the BS Moment) of multiple steps to be done before arriving at ones goal = listening to the music.
And - sorry for that - I forgot the bluetooth protocol for streaming audio from such an app.
Mostly because of the inferiour SQ - which in a combination with an A2 might be sufficient, but not with full-blown B&O speakers.
I suggest, that you might contact those, who know about app-programming and ressources on a smartphone/tablet - to make sure if your dream is just a dream, or could be a reality someday.
In case it will be positive - I still don't want to spend 199 € on a 'pseudo-B&O-experience' on my tablet.
I suggest, that you might contact those, who know about app-programming and resources on a smartphone/tablet - to make sure if your dream is just a dream, or could be a reality someday.
No, for me PP/MW funtions in a "Moment App" seem to be a potential compromise between price and function.
Then you say you are an album listener, therefore Moment works much better for you than an app. I am sure it does, especially as you can search only by first letter of an album/artist. I am sure that has to be a very fast and effective way, better than any other.
And btw, whether the creation of such app is possible or not we already know. It runs on Moment's Android tablet, right - so you don't have to be a programmer to see that. What additional verification would you need, LOL?
Talking about SQ, on Moment we talk Deezer streaming which is far from any serious hiend SQ. Only real source for HQ files would be a NAS repository and for that part no doubt tablet and app are not competitive.
And it's funny that you call it a "Pseudo B&O" experience, while so many old-time B&O customers here called Moment that way and complained it does not have "real B&O" magic.
AnalogPlanet: No, for me PP/MW funtions in a "Moment App" seem to be a potential compromise between price and function. Then you say you are an album listener, therefore Moment works much better for you than an app. I am sure it does, especially as you can search only by first letter of an album/artist. I am sure that has to be a very fast and effective way, better than any other. And btw, whether the creation of such app is possible or not we already know. It runs on Moment's Android tablet, right - so you don't have to be a programmer to see that. What additional verification would you need, LOL? Talking about SQ, on Moment we talk Deezer streaming which is far from any serious hiend SQ. Only real source for HQ files would be a NAS repository and for that part no doubt tablet and app are not competitive. And it's funny that you call it a "Pseudo B&O" experience, while so many old-time B&O customers here called Moment that way and complained it does not have "real B&O" magic.
1: I have never said, that the Moment works better for me!
If you would have followed the main thread on the Moment (a while ago), you might have noticed, that I do not even consider myself as a target costumer for the BS Moment.
I have written that even before it was released!
But this is a personal decision, and has nothing to do with my recommendation for the product - a lot of music listeners prefer to listen to music in the way, that the BS Moment offers - and B&O as a company has reccognized that.
2: neither MW nor PP 'runs on the Moment's android tablet' - these and the userinterface, that we see on the tablet runs on the Soundheard, on the main hardware of the BS Moment - the audioengine.
3: no need to degrade a 320kpbs stream further using bluetooth as a streaming protocol (at least not if you want to feed decent loudspeakers). And we will pretty soon see Deezer Elite on the Moment (I suppose). As you have written: there are people, that have a library with lossless files (FLAC or ALAC).
I am not talking HQ files (they are rather rare) - just plain old SD quality/redbook standart/CD standart/16/44.1 files!
4: I have from day one looked at the BeoSound Moment as a genuine B&O product with great potential - those, who think different of it may do so!
I am an 'oldtime B&O costumer' myself - but I am not oldfashioned!
Sorry - double post.
Maybe I'm too optimistic with B&O when I hope for such supercharged BeoMusic app, but who knows maybe in May I might be opening champagne LOL.
AnalogPlanet:Maybe I'm too optimistic with B&O when I hope for such supercharged BeoMusic app, but who knows maybe in May I might be opening champagne LOL.