ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
A thought provoking read by Alan Shaw of Harbeth audio:
I'd just like to add my postscript to this. I'd like to be blunt; this is how I perceive the situation to be. We here at HUG are the 'source' Harbeth forum, run by us here at the UK factory and that includes me, the designer. The are many other Harbeth forums around the world in various languages but what makes this Harbeth User Group a little different is that it's the 'official voice of Harbeth' because it's the only one I contribute to. So what is written here permeates out as the official Harbeth position. And regarding amplifiers, a visitor could easily draw the wrong conclusions from the churn here about this or that amplifier.Now, as a speaker design and manufacturing company, and we know all too well that all electro-mechanical transducers (microphones, pick-up cartridges and loudspeakers) are bedevilled with countless measurable problems. It's not far off the truth to say that it is a small miracle that what comes out bears any resemblance to what goes in. That's how bad transducers are. But amplifiers - in most engineer's minds - reached a point of virtual perfection a generation ago, unlike speakers which reached the point of barely-acceptable and became stuck at that point decades ago. People buy Harbeth speakers because they are subjectively better for what they are designed to do (reproduce natural music, naturally at a reasonable loudness) because we've squeezed every molecule of performance from what is, after about a hundred years, a mature technology.Amplifiers seem to attract a neurosis all of their own, which I find deeply disturbing. It just doesn't seem to matter what I or others caution about the dangers (or even impossibility) of making casual A-B comparisons between amplifiers without calibrated measuring equipment, time and a strategy. Despite all rational logic, a significant number of hifi consumers* persists in attributing characteristics to certain amplifiers and then communicating those opinions to others. Hence an amplifier passes into folklore. And following that, an aspiration gap opens where another group of consumers work themselves up into a terrible state fearing that their amplifier, hitherto working very nicely, is now inadequate. It made beautiful music yesterday but today it's fit for the scrap heap. Madness? Yes. Depressing? Yes. Morally reprehensible? Yes - a waste of precious natural resources and wrong to create anxiety in others. Especially when it is not truly objective.You won't believe me - few take any notice of what I say here - but in the great scheme of things, in a world of great instability and anxiety, you just don't need to fret about this amp or that amp. You cannot - I repeat this - you, the layman, cannot begin to draw any objective, repeatable, valid opinions that are worth passing into folklore (and therefore moulding another person's behaviour) unless you devise a proper controlled comparison using an instantaneous A-B switchover. That is a fact. It cannot be refuted. If you were blindfolded and I walked into your listening room and very slightly adjusted the volume control I could reverse your opinions about amplifier X or Y. You must control the listening level between amps under test - or the comparison is in all honesty, meaningless. And that implies that you need specialist audio measuring equipment.As I've said ad nauseam, I work damned hard at the design stage to guarantee - yes guarantee - that my speakers will work well with any hifi amplifier that is operating within and to the original specification. I am not saying that amplifiers 'all sound the same' - quite the opposite. I'm saying that you can expect amplifiers to sound different under loose, uncontrolled 'comparisons' because they all have different gains. And different gains mean differentloudness. And different loudness means different subjective characteristics. And they do have. But that is not necessarily to do with the amplifier (although it could be) - it is hugely the consequence of the way humans evaluate by listening and how loudness skews opinion.May I urge you to be mindful of how comments posted here, on theofficial Harbeth forum, have an unintended influence on others who are at this moment enjoying great music and who do not have the money or interest to chase the end of a rainbow. Many users have saved for years to buy a pair of Harbeth speakers. I've met them. They're not middle class professional people with money to burn - they're ordinary working people who chose to invest their hard-won savings in Harbeth speakers. And they're very contented music lovers. But I do find it objectionable that having climbed that financial mountain, another one is placed in front of them on the never-ending audio nervosa path. For crying out loud, let's enjoy whatever amplifier we have to hand and count our blessings that we're safe and healthy. I really don't want to read any more amplifier folklore here. I truly believe it just confuses users and would-be customers. It certainly confuses me. And I design the speakers!Relax - fear not. Whatever amp you've got will work just great with Harbeth. Anything British, made after about 1980, fully serviced will be great. End of story.The Basics of Owning Harbeth are, as always, just a click away -here.* Do real music lovers care? I very much doubt it.
Alan A. ShawDesigner, ownerHarbeth Audio UK
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Present: BL90, Core, BL6000, CD7000, Beogram 7000, Essence Remote.
Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, BC2, BS5, BV5, BV4-50, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4, Moment.
I can't find anything to disagree with in that.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
I suspect that you could substitute B&O speakers for Harbeth in the above argument. It was always the case, from the appearance of Japanese Hi Fi amplifiers in the late 60's, that far too much emphasis was put on microscopically small amplifier distortion, whilst your 'average' speaker was distorting in the 1-10% range.
Graham