ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Dear friends of Beoworld!I bought the new Apple TV 4k; picture is good - but I am not sure if there is really 4k displayed; is there any way to proof "what I see"/the resolution? Onscreen display - Volume - seems to me being the same as watching "normal" TV content
Already tried to do the HDMI cable test (within settings apple tv) - says that my cable only supports 60Hz SDR (Avant has no HDR at all...); RGB not possible -> cable was bought from B&O Dealer to connect 4k box in future...
so maybe: new HDMI? 4k - but not as good as expected? any idea?
by the way: PUC works - only on/off seems to be a bit error-prone.
Best regards Elmar
Yes there is. With the Avant MK1 on and displaying the source at issue, press the ‘menu button’ on your BeoRemote One. This should bring up the menu on the left side of the screen with “source list” menu item being highlighted. Move the highlighted position one position down to the “setup” menu item and then use the ‘center button’ on your BeoRemote One to the select this menu item. At this point, I believe the “sound” menu item is highlighted (and if not, use the arrow keys on the BeoRemote One to move the highlighted position such that the “sound” menu item is highlighted). At this point, DO NOT use the ‘center button’ on your BeoRemote One. RATHER, on your BeoRemote One, press the ‘red button’ twice and then the ‘center button.’ At this point you will be in the service menu. Move highlighted position down until the “signal information” menu item is highlighted and then use the ‘center button’ on your BeoRemote One. This will give you signal information on the source that is currently being displayed. Also, I would recommend NOT making any changes while in the service menu.
Also, the Avant MK1 is a 8-bit SDR display. On the 4k Apple TV, select 4K 60Hz SDR. Also, while not related to your question, in the sound settings for the 4k Apple TV, choose “Best Quality."
For what it’s worth, I had the same initial impression when I hooked up the 4k Apple TV to my Avant MK1 (2014). However, over time, there are moments when I’ve experienced a noticeable improvement over the 4th generation Apple TV.
When you set up the Apple TV, if it says that your TV is 60HZ SDR, then the picture settings should be 4K 60 HZ SDR.
I dont have a new ATV, but i've seen a lot of the detailed reviews - is your video output on the ATV set to match the above.
I am not sure what relevance the cable is?
Maybe i'm confused, but i thought the Apple TV setup process determined the capability of your TV, not just the cable.
Anyway, assuming you have a Netflix 4K subscription, if everything is setup ok, you should be able to see some 4K content (the app detects the TV capability). Have you tried this? If you have the 4K subscription and no 4K is showing on Netflix, then something is wrong with the settings.
In the end though, from my experience with an Avant Mk1, streamed 4K is not that much better than HD - so i wouldn't necessarily expect a striking difference. I use 4K streams from Netflix and Amazon Prime on my Avant Mk1 - its very ice, but noting special.
Perfect Info thanks a lot:
it says Input 3840x2160p
Output Display res 1920x1080p
So... only Full hd ?
elmar
I also have the same Output display resolution (1920x1080) on the Avant Mk 1 when viewing 4k content via my Roku Premier+.
Why is the Avant Mk 1 not providing 3840 x 2160 output resolution when receiving the 3840 x 2160 input signal?
I believe the output in the service menu is referring to what is output by the menu system ( remember that this is the service menu and isn’t necessarily made for our eyes). The Avant MK1 using the Beosystem 4s 1080P video processing and menu system and then offloads 4k signals to a custom build FPGA that handles the 4k signal, and mixes that with the 1080P menu system. Long story short, if your service menu says 3840x2160P as the input signal, your TV is displaying 4k.
Frankly I’ve been having difficultly seeing a big noticeable improvement with the 4k steams via the 4k Apple TV. That said, if you do some comparisons, the difference is there (although it’s not as much as I would have expected…I’d even call it subtle). Also, note that because the 4k Apple displays everything at 4k (i.e, native 4k content is displayed at 4k and 1080p content is upscaled to 4k) it’s hard to tell what the actual source material is. I also have a 4k Oppo blu-ray player and can definitely say that 4k blu-ray is far superior to streamed 4k content from the 4K Apple TV.
Interesting re the output resolution - i have the same showing with my Fire TV 4K + Avant Mk 1.
And yes, 4K SDR is not a big improvement over Full HD - the step up comes from HDR.
I was also wondering about the 4K Blu-Ray versus 4K Apple TV (or any stream) comparison. I haven't done a side by side, and was expecting the physical disc to be a good deal better than the streamed version.
I was surprised then by the comparison below, from HD TV Test - its worth watching for those interested, and surprisingly the reviewer / calibrator concluded the Apple TV 4K was much closer to the 4K Blu-Ray than expected. In fact, his conclusion was that most people wouldnt be able to tell the difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbKCZpQN72c
Anyway, i dont have an HDR tv, but the video test was interesting.
thanks for your answers - so if true, that I "see" 4k than its really a bit disappointing (compared to built in you tube app streaming without 4k) - I just saw some demo videos in store which have been very promising - so might be HDR etc. ....
I decided to buy ATV4k because of the lack of 4k material; Am I right that the Oppo 4k player do NOT support any streaming apps? Oppo would be my first choice but I do not want to buy discs with 4k content - want to be able to use streaming options (Avant Mk1 lacks HVEC as everybody of you know...);
Best Regards Elmar
Yes, as said before, 4K SDR is not much of a improvement over normal HD.
I have an Avant MK 1 - and because its not HDR, i have no need for an Apple TV 4K (unless you had no streaming box to start with).
I also wouldnt bother with an Oppo, as most of the discs in the future will be 4K HDR. Also i believe the newer Oppo players have less streaming apps supported.
f5434964: thanks for your answers - so if true, that I "see" 4k than its really a bit disappointing (compared to built in you tube app streaming without 4k) - I just saw some demo videos in store which have been very promising - so might be HDR etc. ....
Remember the stuff you are shown in the store is clearly handpicked as the very best 4K content to demo the TV. As an example, the forthcoming Blue Planet II in 4K will look stunning. But it will also look stunning on Blu-ray in HD, too. But you won't see that. They'll show you the 4K version and you'll come away thinking it's stunning and make you realise why you need to buy a 4K TV.
Get home and you realise that regular 4K is only a minor improvement over a very decent HD source. Most reviewers of the Apple TV 4K box have remarked that 4K versions of movies are only a marginal improvement over the HD version.
Think thats true for 4K SDR, whether on the Apple TV or not.
I'm generally with you on the "no great hurry to upgrade to 4K HDR", and am a little sceptical over streaming versus physical, but i would encourage a look at the HD TV test link i posted above. So not sure all the ATV 4K reviews are in the "marginal improvement" camp.
The Apple TV 4K HDR was pretty close to the Blu-Ray 4K HDR, surprisingly.
But yes, 4K SDR versus normal HD is not worth getting excited over - i was watching a 4K (SDR) Netflix stream last night, and it looked very ordinary (admittedly it was a drama with lost of dark scenes, but hey).
Sandyb: Yes, as said before, 4K SDR is not much of a improvement over normal HD.
I think it merely depends on the size of the screen. What however can be noticed is that the picture processing of the TV (in my case a Horizon) on 4K SDR content has less work to do.
Not sure if thats quite right, the screen size issue.
After all i've got an Avant 55 Mk1 - if streamed 4K HDR doesn't especially impress on a 55 inch, than its not exactly a small screen i'm judging by.
Not saying that it looks bad - and the odd thing can look pretty sharp, but by and large most of the 4K SDR programmes and movies i have streamed from Netflix and Amazon Prime look fairly indistinguishable from full HD - and certainly not the more impressive and striking images you can get with 4K HDR.
And again, in addition to my real life experience at home, all the reviews say that HDR is the big improvement when combined with 4K.
I really don't think anyone with an SDR TV should buy a new ATV expecting a big improvement, nor the "showroom experience" where they display some 4K HDR movie clip or nature clip from a USB stick. You'll need an HDR TV for that.
Sandyb: ... all the reviews say that HDR is the big improvement when combined with 4K. I really don't think anyone with an SDR TV should buy a new ATV expecting a big improvement, nor the "showroom experience" where they display some 4K HDR movie clip or nature clip from a USB stick. You'll need an HDR TV for that.
... all the reviews say that HDR is the big improvement when combined with 4K.
Totally agree - save the money and buy (or stay with) an ATV4 and let the tv/the Avant do it’s job.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
I also have an Avant 55" Mk1 and I see quite a lot of difference on 4K content versus full HD content. The resolution is one thing. HDR is another story. I have three 4K sources; Apple TV 4K, PS4 Pro and Nvidia Shield TV. It's gotten quite easy to notice when media is 4K and not. Of course not always the biggest difference but the higher amount of pixels makes hues and details come through in another way and it is probably also part thanks to the codecs and data available. I also enjoy Full HD and even standard definition media on my set - it all scales pretty good. For 4K sharpness I guess you both need good eyes and a not to far distance to the TV. Depending on the distance even Full HD or lower resolution will optically be equal to what 4K would be for you. When playing games the 4K makes a lot of difference since text and hud elements are much more crisp and sharp. I enjoy that and even though most games arent 4K fully some of them are in a middle state with higher resolution. For 4K content I use Netflix a lot and I moved from a Nvidia Shield TV to the Apple TV 4K as soon as it was released. It is very clear that the Netflix GUI is not 4K on Nvidia Shield TV but it is on Apple TV. Thinks like that makes a big difference to me and I enjoy the 4K experience.
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Thats interesting, though i find your experience quite surprising.
Maybe my eyes are terrible, but i sit a normal 3m distance from my Avant 55, and once again i was watching Netflix 4K series last night, and for the most part it looked relatively indistinguishable from full HD. Most people i suspect wouldnt look at that image and say "oh thats much better than the HD i'm used to". And certainly not the "oh that looks as striking as the showroom 4K HDR" demo's.
Maybe something is wrong with my set up, though i doubt it. There was a thread earlier this week on checking the output resolution - does yours show the same data i.e. input being 4 k, output being HD? Someone was saying the the output resolution showing HD related to the B&O GUI, and not to worry.
Sandyb: Thats interesting, though i find your experience quite surprising. Maybe my eyes are terrible, but i sit a normal 3m distance from my Avant 55, and once again i was watching Netflix 4K series last night, and for the most part it looked relatively indistinguishable from full HD. Most people i suspect wouldnt look at that image and say "oh thats much better than the HD i'm used to". And certainly not the "oh that looks as striking as the showroom 4K HDR" demo's. Maybe something is wrong with my set up, though i doubt it. There was a thread earlier this week on checking the output resolution - does yours show the same data i.e. input being 4 k, output being HD? Someone was saying the the output resolution showing HD related to the B&O GUI, and not to worry.
Hard to say. Do you pay for Netflix UHD? It should say UHD Ultra 4K or something like that to show that you can see it in that resolution. Except for that your internet connection must also support the high speed and bandwith required for the 4K stream otherwise it will fall back on lower resolutions. I actually had a friend over two days ago who said wow its so sharp - TOO sharp. He noticed it immediately and I didn't even tell him it was 4K. And he wears glasses. I haven't checked what the service menu says on the Avant but it is true that it uses a extra chip for 4K content. The B&O GUI is always in 1920x1080p and scaled up. You can see this if you move closer to the TV. On full-hd sources the B&O GUI will be smooth and upscaled by the TVs built in scaler. But in 4K mode the scaler isn't active since it is producing straight 4K signals - then the B&O GUI looks a bit distorted close up due to being stretched without scaling active.
I should also add that I run my 4K Apple TV in 30 hz or 24/25. Dont remember right now. This is because I prefer the motion adaptive features of the B&O set to work instead of a studdering movie on a 60hz frequency. Most Netfix material is around 30 fps anyway.
Yes i do pay for Netflix 4K, and i have teh same experience on Amazon Prime with 4K material.
Anyway, seems a subtle improvement not a dramatic one.
And my broadband is 100, so plenty fast.
BeoCare answered (sorry for German)
Interesting
Is there an Avant owner with a 4K Blu-Ray player who can test as well?
Output resolution and input resolution both shown as 4K.
Are you going to respond back to B&O?
f5434964: BeoCare answered (sorry for German) Guten Tag Herr Wallner, aus der Ferne kann ich mir nur drei mögliche Ursachen vorstellen: 1. Die haben den HDMI-Eingang im "Easy Access" Steckfeld verwendet. Dieser HDMI 6 bietet keine UHD-Auflösung, nur HDMI 1-5 auf der Rückseite. 2. Es handelt sich um eine Einstellung am Apple TV 4k 3. Die betreffende Sendung wurde nicht in UHD bzw. 4k ausgestrahlt. Meines Erachtens spricht viel für die Punkte 2 und 3, da nach meiner Erinnerung (ich habe gerade keinen BeoVision Avant 75 MK1 hier) keine Einblendung im Display bezüglich der Auflösung seitens des TV gemacht wird. Das müsste also vom Apple TV kommen. Mit freundlichen Grüßen K.E. BeoCare That means for me: Somethings wrong; obviously the output display resolution has to show 3840x2160p; Beocare did not says the TV is wrong - the answers are not really helpful; maybe someone how thinks that the 4k picture is awesome in comparison to HD might have a look to the service menu and confirm display output res. Best regards Elmar
Hallo K.EYou must connect most 4K sources to the HDMI 1 port due to that being the only HDMI 2.0 port with HDCP 2.2 which is required for most DRM(copy protected) 4K media. HDMI 2-5 is HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 1.4 which means that they can display 4K but only as long as it is not copy protected - for example for gaming. HDMI 6 is HDMI 1.4 and can not display resolutions higher than 1920x1080.Kind regards, Michael
You still get the same input / output resolution discrepancy on HDMI 1.
That's where my (4K) matrix feeds it's sources into, HDMI 1.
Correct, I see the same (atlona UHDpro66)
FWIW, 4K on Nvidia Shield and Apple streams are 'not' any better than upscaled HD on my Avant 85 mk1.
Youtube 4k on the shield is surprisingly better than netflix or apple, and I have a Kaleidescape Strato player, outputting 4K SDR which is exquisite, better or identical to 4k uhd blu rays.
I spoke to my dealer about this yesterday, who hadn't realised this "issue"
It seems a quirk / bug of the menu system i think - when he changed his Fire TV to output 720, the Avant showed the correct inout resolution (720), but the output was still showing as 1920 * 1080.
So it seems that the output resolution data doesnt change, regardless of what input signal you feed it.
Yep, streamed 4K (at least SDR) is an unconvincing improvement, subtle at best.
There will always be some who have old tech, or barely watch HD, who might be impressed by 4K SDR - but for those who watch everything in HD (whether broadcast or regular Blu-Ray HD), 4K SDR is a marginal improvement at best.
Your experience with the Strato is interesting - assuming thats locally stored and not streamed content?
But of the 7 or 8 TV series i have streamed in 4K SDR from Amazon or Netflix, i'm not blown away by any means. In most cases i wouldn't even know it was 4K.
Yes, the Kaleidescape gear download bit for bit copies of the studio releases (so you get pretty much identical experience to discs, just with none of the media).