ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Wall Street Journal interview with Tue.
...........His strategy for Bang & Olufsen has three key elements: identifying new drivers of growth as sales of the company's traditional products dwindle; moving into growing markets, namely the U.S. and China; and speeding up the process of developing new products and bringing them to market........
.........Mr. Mantoni has identified two main drivers of growth in the short term: a new, lower-priced B&O Play range, launched at the start of 2012, aimed at younger customers; and the luxury car market...........
........."We are a small business but a big brand," he says. "The products we sell do not necessarily have to please the entire world. But if we can create a small group of really passionate people, then we will be successful. We only have to find 10,000 out there who really love your products, compared with an Asian brand that needs to sell 500,000 speakers to be successful."
Mr. Mantoni is also looking to change the deeply embedded B&O culture of taking its time to develop new products.
In the past, he says, "we had more time and it took too long." He gives as an example the Beosound 9000 six-disc CD player, which took almost five years to develop. "Imagine today creating a new product and taking five years. During that time the market might have completely changed," he says, pointing to Apple's regular new releases. "We have shortened the time from the idea to when we hit the market and we are still working on it," he says.
Graham
In five years time will B&O be just a car audio company?
That's assuming they'll actually be in business in five years time.
Reading the quote says it all - the BS9000 was in the catalogue for years and must have sold well it also was a design classic.
They took along time developing it , but it was worth the wait.
Now they're rushing any old crap out of the door.
Flappo:That's assuming they'll actually be in business in five years time.
Share price is up nearly 50% in last two months - the markets seem to approve of Tue, his strategy, Beoplay and the new products in general.
Flappo:Now they're rushing any old crap out of the door.
And yet the Bsnd 8 is the biggest selling item in their history ..... ???
Some people in this forum are just so negative - its like if you gave them a £20 note , the first comment would be... "Oh, but I really wanted two tenners"
Why not see the merit in items, even if they don't suit your personal taste/needs/budget.
The new single speaker is unique in design, by all accounts it sounds superb, and I can well see it suiting many homes - wall mounted in particular.
Stick it on the wall above a TV, use the Aux in - and quite aside from its digital music wireless abilities, you just got a way to bring big, impressive sound to a XXX brand panel TV, without stringing wires all round the room.
They're becoming a glorified Apple appliance add on supplier.
It's a bit sad but I guess that's the way things are going.
To use a boxing analogy.... when you're on the ropes, you lean into your opponent and hold on.
I don't blame B&O for cosying up to Apple - it's where the money is! Once B&O have made some money, they can invest it in being unique again with a bit of luck.
As for the share prices, watching them go up and down after a rousing speech or two makes me laugh. It's almost like the sheep outside the farm control the share prices sometimes...
Tue isn't stupid though. I think he's learning very quickly - but also using the knowledge and experience he already has. Nobody can accuse him of not being 100% focused, but he needs the unequivocal support of all those around him in order to achieve what he wants. Sometimes, I just don't get that vibe..
Lee
Flappo: They're becoming a glorified Apple appliance add on supplier. It's a bit sad but I guess that's the way things are going.
And just a year or two ago, everybody wanted them to "embrace Apple"... well, duh. There's just no pleasing this crowd.
--mika
Good analogy there Lee,
I happen to disagree - it's believed that no matter how many times wrong is done, it will remain wrong, and in my opinion is a shame for current bosses to happily gave up position of being leaders with innovative and ingenious products to production which will please the crowds for few bobs more...
I don't think B&O was doing to bad taking into account their annual turnovers neither
As for Apple - well done I suppose (isn't that what people wanted), but it is small world and linking the whole existence to one brand may (and did many times in past) became lethal, not to mention the huge population of non Apple customers (whom for one reason better than other choose not to or, are fanatical Microsoft followers, hence haters of Apple) whom may surprisingly have dim view of that move and trend.
As for sheep's - you're absolutely right there, that's what most people are - following blindly where other show them to go and it seem that the wolf what once B&O was is becoming more sheep like ...
Saying that New B&O production have little if no appeal to me personally, the vibe is gone
Bob
I haven't got or want apple and still refuse to refer to MP3's as Hi-Fi....
9 LEE: To use a boxing analogy.... when you're on the ropes, you lean into your opponent and hold on. I don't blame B&O for cosying up to Apple - it's where the money is! Once B&O have made some money, they can invest it in being unique again with a bit of luck. As for the share prices, watching them go up and down after a rousing speech or two makes me laugh. It's almost like the sheep outside the farm control the share prices sometimes... Tue isn't stupid though. I think he's learning very quickly - but also using the knowledge and experience he already has. Nobody can accuse him of not being 100% focused, but he needs the unequivocal support of all those around him in order to achieve what he wants. Sometimes, I just don't get that vibe.. Lee
Don't worry - be Happy
In my humble opinion they failed horrible identifying the market needs (perhaps the measuring is wrong all together as growth drivers mustn't be necessarily the skeleton or main goal of future successful company)
China in particular is obsessed with iconic brands and most producers of luxury and exclusive items such Ferrari, BMW these days became the main market... Why did B&O missed the "gravy train" all together? Mp3 players are easily obtainable in Chinese markets for pennies, but where is B&O iconic MP3 player for "masses", where are blue ray players or music systems?
They seized exist all together was it wise to stop production all together rather than to adjust them to this market (would it take 5 years - doubt it
I'm sure even us dinosaurs stacked in past of vintage wouldn't mind add another product (why not MP3 player or, blue ray made by our beloved B&O) to collection.... It sure is better to fail and die while trying, than do nothing at all
Developing of products takes time only if you have overslept get out of touch and miss planning all together ....
take a look at Nokia story as perfect example how easily thing can get out of control
vikinger: Wall Street Journal interview with Tue. ...........His strategy for Bang & Olufsen has three key elements: identifying new drivers of growth as sales of the company's traditional products dwindle; moving into growing markets, namely the U.S. and China; and speeding up the process of developing new products and bringing them to market........ Graham
I think it's a good move to give Apple fans the option to buy B&O. But why are those people who don't have Apple discounting the new products?
BS5, V1, A9, BV11 are all DLNA compliant. you can easily stream music to an A8 or BLit12 from an android phone. Why the negativity?
tournedos: And just a year or two ago, everybody wanted them to "embrace Apple"... well, duh. There's just no pleasing this crowd.
Very true. I think it was over a year ago, but I do remember people on this board - maybe Flappo - moaning that B&O had made some bad business decisions deciding to partner with Microsoft (Windows for Beomaster 5), Samsung (for the phones), but were ignoring Apple. There are debates on here that B&O should be embracing Apple as their primary partner.
Now they have done, the moans have gone the other way and now we're arguing they've embraced Apple too greatly and should be more unique? I mean, really? What, design their own audio compression codecs, their own AirPlay equivalent etc? With B&O's software development experience?
I'm not going to agree there's "too much moaning on here" as when everyone is just praising everything all the time, you get that awful American gloss where they simply say everything is "awesome man!", half the time when they don't mean it. However, I will say that B&O didn't have much choice. Us consumers were demanding they partner with Apple and Apple are the primary electronics manufacturer, so what B&O have done has made sense.
And I like my Beosound 8! I prefer it to my 100% B&O designed problematic Beocom 5's.
I agree with Moxxey to an extent but I think the problem with the BS5 wasn't really Windows based, it was a complete lack of connectivity/communication with anything and everthing to which most here proposed Apple compatibility as the solution. The correct solution is to support open, not for profit, standards such as UPnP, DLNA etc. and Apple, which they are now doing. This keeps the Apple gang happy whilst also making networking and multimedia transfer features between products (including those from different manufacturers) available to all users. Aligning themsleves only to Apple would be a mistake.
Ban boring signatures!
I think they are being completely realistic - make money by making products which utilise the B&O brand to sell at a good profit but also carry on with the iconic and excellent range which maintains the brand name.
So by all means, sell car hi-fi and iPod docks, but also make the Beolab 5s and Geoff's new monster speakers which are highly thought of and which generate plaudits for the brand. At present spending 5 years developing a product means it is out of date before launch. I am sure there are ideas that can be developed and will continue to do so but have the flexibility to adapt. The important thing is not to make products that devalue the brand. they have to have certain core values - sound quality and materials used need to be paramount.
Peter
I agree with Puncher. The problem with Apple is they're a law unto themselves and are totally uncontrollable.
I'd hate B&O to rest their future on a company that's so unpredictable. They don't even tell us long term users when they're bringing out new products for instance. Which causes problems when attempting to plan ahead - particularly in these tough times.
Very well said (as always) Peter
question which resonates in my head is what the development team has been doing lately ...? But to be brutally honest I don't follow much new products for what they seem have little appeal to me and than there's financial side of it not to be forgotten....
Peter: I think they are being completely realistic - make money by making products which utilise the B&O brand to sell at a good profit but also carry on with the iconic and excellent range which maintains the brand name. So by all means, sell car hi-fi and iPod docks, but also make the Beolab 5s and Geoff's new monster speakers which are highly thought of and which generate plaudits for the brand. At present spending 5 years developing a product means it is out of date before launch. I am sure there are ideas that can be developed and will continue to do so but have the flexibility to adapt. The important thing is not to make products that devalue the brand. they have to have certain core values - sound quality and materials used need to be paramount.
SPOT ON
B&O is to good of name / brand to become second grade producer or to see it to go ......
bob
Puncher: I agree with Moxxey to an extent.................. The correct solution is to support open, not for profit, standards such as UPnP, DLNA etc. and Apple, which they are now doing. Aligning themsleves only to Apple would be a mistake.
I agree with Moxxey to an extent..................
The correct solution is to support open, not for profit, standards such as UPnP, DLNA etc. and Apple, which they are now doing.
Aligning themsleves only to Apple would be a mistake.
Flappo: They don't even tell us long term users when they're bringing out new products for instance. Which causes problems when attempting to plan ahead - particularly in these tough times.
They don't even tell us long term users when they're bringing out new products for instance. Which causes problems when attempting to plan ahead - particularly in these tough times.
There is always some danger in talking about your new products to early, because one might postpone buying decisions (products of the actual product line might be harder to sell knowing there is something new or upgraded around the corner).
No problem for i-stuff, because it is cheaper and people got used to buy phones / notebook every so often, let's say every 2 years.
But you just don't want to buy a new tv set every other year (and lose a lot more money).
Ralf
Living Room: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-2 (Center), Beolab 9 (Fronts), Beolab 8000 (Rears), no Subwoofer. Screen: Sony KD-85XH9096Dining Room: Beosound Essence MK II with Beolab 4000 on stands, fed by Amazon Echo Show 8Home Cinema: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-4 (Center), Beolab 1 (Fronts), Beolab 4000 (Rears). Projector: Sony VPL-HW55Home Office: Beosystem 3, Beolab 7-4, Beolab 5000, Screen: Sony KD-55XH9005 on Beovision 7-40 stand, ML to Beosound 9000 MK3 and Beosound 5/Beomaster 5 (1 TB SSD version)Bedroom: Sony KD-65XH9077, Beosound Essence MK II with Beolab 6002 and Beolab 11 (all white, wall-mounted)
In storage: Beolab 5000/Beomaster 5000 (1960s).
The problem with the current mac range is it hasn't been updates in literally years and is starting to fall behind.
The Mac Pro hasn't been updated for over 2 plus years now . Even the iMac and Mac mini haven't been updates for over a year.
all apple seem to care about these days are their i toys. They are in danger of alienating their core customer base. I know lots of users who have given up with them and gone over to the dark side.
Almost all of the Play products will be very out of date in 5 years or less. A good example of this is Apple is about to change the wireless standard it uses. Of course Apple recently changed the connector for iPhones and ultimately iPads. I have a Beolit 12 which I like but it works in the 2.4 GHz range which in more densely populated areas is crowded. I intend to directly connect my Beolit 12 by ethernet. Beolit 12 should be dual band.
As for their premium products, I am hesitant to invest in anything. It is difficult to understand what type of products will be available. The Beolab 5 needs a better DAC and the Beosound 5 product appears it is nearing the end of its production cycle. My solution is to just wait and see what happens. However it the wait is too long, one is tempted to investigate other brands. I think many loyal Bang and Olufsen customers are feeling the same dilemma.
linder:Almost all of the Play products will be very out of date in 5 years or less.
That is exactly the problem with... ahem... "embracing Apple" (which is actually the other way round, and rather a vice grip than an embrace). But as Puncher said, as long as the products can alternatively be used with open standards, there's always a back door for those that get left behind by Apple updating its own products. Other DLNA / UPnP / <insert your open standard here> users won't have a problem continuing to use them - at the end of the day, you could implement your own kit to to run with them!
My 2½ year old Nokia N8 - running on an abandoned Symbian platform - just received an update that included DLNA services. As far as I understand (don't have the kit to try) I could use it to play out music and videos on any DLNA compatible TV or audio system. Pretty much just like AirPlay, expect that you're not stuck with Apple and its technologies. What's not to like?
Anyway, getting out of date faster is something you get with the current technologies. Except for speakers, the days of using the same system for 10-20 years are pretty much over. This will obviously hit harder manufacturers such as B&O, where the pricing has been (at least partly) justified by the very long usable lifetime of the products. They will need to start designing more modular (upgradable) solutions if they want to keep doing that.
Some GREAT points there guys! But that is why I LIKE the B&O PLAY - Apple thing because I can RELY on Apple to do a great job with its players / iTunes / software and then use the amps / speakers from B&O... far far safer than investing in a BANG&OLUFSEN music system these days and don't forget guys, this MP3 market isn't new, it's been like this for nearly 15 years now with iTunes what, 10 years old?
iTunes certainly isn't closed as to what other software can work hand in hand, for example in radio & DJing, we use Serato, Pioneer Rekordbox, Traktor, DJay, Virtual DJ, Myriad, RCS etc and all of these take our iTunes library & playlists and simply import everything perfectly into their own playout system - so why can't BAN&OLUFSEN reliably do this????????
According to a former B&O employee writing on a how is Tue doing thread on the web site Linkedin. Many of the loudspeaker projects where canceled. Did that project survive?
Peter: Geoff's new monster speakers which are highly thought of and which generate plaudits for the brand.
Geoff's new monster speakers which are highly thought of and which generate plaudits for the brand.
Is this project still planned?
expoman:According to a former B&O employee writing on a how is Tue doing thread on the web site Linkedin.
Link please?
Beoworld app with direct photo upload and emoticons.
9 LEE: I don't blame B&O for cosying up to Apple - it's where the money is! Once B&O have made some money, they can invest it in being unique again with a bit of luck.
Indeed, there are many valid reason to (finally) make products that work well with Apple. The most obvious one is that a LOT of people own Apple products and have their music in iTunes.
The second is that there countless Apple News websites, and whenever B&O releases a product that has some connection to the Apple world, these websites, blogs, etc are all posting a story about it. It is free publicity for B&O (well, maybe that cost them a few glasses of champain at a launch party).
No, that's called living in 2012. Times change. Technology moves far quicker these days than it did in the 80s and 90s.
On top of this, B&O do not own many of their non-speaker technology, requiring them to depend on other companies. The Apple AirPlay technology has been existence for many years now - the date of my first Airpot Express is something like 2005 and seven years is a long long time is this business. AirPlay is technology that won't be going anywhere soon and neither with DLNA.
People on here sometimes live in the past, the glory days where B&O products were strong in a very stable and small market, where technology moved at a much slower pace. Times have changed, B&O were nearly out of business three years ago and people have very short memories. They are doing quite well all things considered, with some fairly reasonable products.
vikinger:.........Mr. Mantoni has identified two main drivers of growth in the short term: a new, lower-priced B&O Play range, launched at the start of 2012, aimed at younger customers; and the luxury car market...........
I had forgotten, but when some of us were in Struer our guide showed us a video while we were waiting for Tue to come and talk to us.
The video was of a concept car (van) that Mercedes Benz had built with B&O's assistance (a bit like the B&O boat division of some years back, only those of use who owned ocean going yatchs and cruisers were potential buyers) ... I am sure there is money and prestige to be made from these:
BeoNut since '75
PhilLondon: expoman:According to a former B&O employee writing on a how is Tue doing thread on the web site Linkedin. Link please?
You must be a Linkedin member of the ex B&O group so I can not create a link. PM me and I will send you her comments.