ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Mikipidia: Oh sorry, I thought is was the Bs4 bit that was faulty
Oh sorry, I thought is was the Bs4 bit that was faulty
That bit works fine. It's the panel. The guy that came around ran tests and the BeoSystem can power the BV11 in the other room, so that's working.
But it also shows the mentality of buying B&O - 3 man install job, can't be fixed easily, can't even be taken off the wall easily etc etc.
I agree but what do you think is uique about the stage when there seem to be better products out there. Many reporting issues with compatibility ?
With the Stage you can have the B&O experience with the Beremote one
And what soundbar do you think pair with the Stage? IMO it is the best looking soundbar out there.
The Issue is due to LG, all brands apparently have the same problem with LG televisions.
But Moxxey would you not miss your BL3 and 11,
I can say if you would choose a Eclipse or Harmony, you would get a steller TV with great performance.
And dont think about downgrading to a 55" when you are used to 65" Only go bigger ;)
Beovision Harmony 77" 2nd Gen, Beolab 5, Beolab 17, Beosound 1, Beoplay M3, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay Earset, Beoliving Intelligence
Emil Jensen: With the Stage you can have the B&O experience with the Beremote one And what soundbar do you think pair with the Stage? IMO it is the best looking soundbar out there. The Issue is due to LG, all brands apparently have the same problem with LG televisions. The B&O experience is what moxey is sick of and so am I. Why buy the outdated eclipse, that looks rather ugly at 6 times the price of LG or the hugely expensive and rather ugly B&O horixon. For a soundbar, without the poo service Sennheiser Ambeo Soundbar seems a good bet But Moxxey would you not miss your BL3 and 11, I can say if you would choose a Eclipse or Harmony, you would get a steller TV with great performance. And dont think about downgrading to a 55" when you are used to 65" Only go bigger ;)
The B&O experience is what moxey is sick of and so am I. Why buy the outdated eclipse, that looks rather ugly at 6 times the price of LG or the hugely expensive and rather ugly B&O horixon.
For a soundbar, without the poo service Sennheiser Ambeo Soundbar seems a good bet
Emil Jensen: With the Stage you can have the B&O experience with the Beremote one And what soundbar do you think pair with the Stage? IMO it is the best looking soundbar out there. The Issue is due to LG, all brands apparently have the same problem with LG televisions. But Moxxey would you not miss your BL3 and 11, I can say if you would choose a Eclipse or Harmony, you would get a steller TV with great performance. And dont think about downgrading to a 55" when you are used to 65" Only go bigger ;)
best looking? its a soundbar, ive heard it , its not bad but its not spectacular either, no depth so bass is lacking.
One could connect the other speakers via WISA but with LG its seems that only gives you stereo with a mixed centre
335f it is fair that you do not like the Eclipse or Hamony design, but I do a lot of people like it.
And the Eclipse is not outdated, what do you miss currently?
Yes it is a C7 not a C9, but I will bet you would not be able to see the difference. HDMI 2.1 will be an issue 2021, but then you could argue that all tv and Surround receivers are outdated, exept LG televsions.
The Sennheiser is nice, but very expensive and IMO ugly as you would put it.
And for me I would miss following features in my Eclipse,
Nice remote,
Motorstand
Surround processor
PUC Control
Net radio- by remote
My buttons.
Easily worth the cost imo.
I've read this thread with interest, and I wonder what would be the best recommendations to B&O to adapt to the new era. Personally I think - and hope - we and new customers will continue to purchase high end Danish AV designs, functional sculptures to have in our homes. How many other brands have designed such timeless, high quality craftsmanship AV products that you still like to use and have in your living room for 10-15-20 years? When we bought the Eclipse 65, we moved our previous primary TV - a BV5 - to a second living room - this still works perfectly together with the BL8000s. And the Eclipse is just fantastic with the BL5s and the BS9000. (BS Core acts as a multi-room hub). It is much more sustainable to buy quality products and keep these alive for years, in stead of buying the latest low-cost models yearly.
I think we will see an increased shift in people requesting products with a longer life span. Not easy with the rapid technology developments, but I think customers seeking long lasting, sustainable and timeless AV products can live a few years with a TV set that has a 4k HDR DV OLED panel integrated in a great looking and sounding soundbar on top of a moving stand (like the Eclipse). And when we know that there is an increasing number of high income middle class customers world wide, there should be a market for B&O going forward as well. Just continue to make desirable, easy to use and great sounding products with high end materials - products we want to have and use in our homes for years!
BV Eclipse 65, BV5, BS Core, BL5, BL8000, BS9000, Beolit 12, A1, A2, P2, H8, H9i, H7, E8
Emil Jensen: But Moxxey would you not miss your BL3 and 11,
I won't, no. Better things to worry about. Plus I'm not going to 'find' another £7K. Just too much of a difference. For what real gain? It's a deposit on a good car!
I genuinely don't sit there and admire my TV like some are suggesting on here. Maybe 10 years ago, but the picture quality difference is fairly minimal now and both my BV's are fixed to the wall, so a motorised stand is not required nor necessary. A Stage gives you access to the remote and some control, so that will suffice.
I quote from the thread "End of an Era :(" because I think the following statement is a very good analysis and shows another aspect:
BeoMatthew: It's been my experience selling B&O from the the end of 1999 until very recently that B&O has followed many of the wrong trends and where it's followed the right ones, it's been somewhat blindsided but the challenges of those parts of the business. Specifically that the high-ticket sales have trended more toward large custom installations rather than a few luxury items like expensive TVs & 2-channel speaker setups and they've basically either ignored, or in recent history, antagonized that channel. Then they've created some really fabulous bluetooth speakers and headphones but seemed to be shocked that they flood into the market and wind up getting marked down through online channels and brick & mortar B&O dealers are left as service points for broken headphones and dead speaker batteries as well as a place to try them on for size before ordering them off Amazon before even leaving the store. So while the products they have are pretty good, the holes in their lineup and their approach to core business and retail business are just goofy.
It's been my experience selling B&O from the the end of 1999 until very recently that B&O has followed many of the wrong trends and where it's followed the right ones, it's been somewhat blindsided but the challenges of those parts of the business.
Specifically that the high-ticket sales have trended more toward large custom installations rather than a few luxury items like expensive TVs & 2-channel speaker setups and they've basically either ignored, or in recent history, antagonized that channel.
Then they've created some really fabulous bluetooth speakers and headphones but seemed to be shocked that they flood into the market and wind up getting marked down through online channels and brick & mortar B&O dealers are left as service points for broken headphones and dead speaker batteries as well as a place to try them on for size before ordering them off Amazon before even leaving the store.
So while the products they have are pretty good, the holes in their lineup and their approach to core business and retail business are just goofy.
Interesting, and of course thats great if that combo will serve you well.
I haven't listened yet to the Stage, but subject to the caveat that it may sound great, if my 12-65 died and required a replacement, I'd really miss my BL18's / 3's / 19 connected. I love a big immersive sound, and cant quite believe a soundbar will make me happy.
As a second room (my bedroom in my case) setup, Stage plus screen would be ace.
But as you say, maybe there are other things to worry about.
moxxey: Emil Jensen: But Moxxey would you not miss your BL3 and 11, I won't, no. Better things to worry about. Plus I'm not going to 'find' another £7K. Just too much of a difference. For what real gain? It's a deposit on a good car! I genuinely don't sit there and admire my TV like some are suggesting on here. Maybe 10 years ago, but the picture quality difference is fairly minimal now and both my BV's are fixed to the wall, so a motorised stand is not required nor necessary. A Stage gives you access to the remote and some control, so that will suffice.
I can only agree with you Sandyb,
I sold my Beolab 20 and are waiting for my Beolab5 to arrive,
In the mean time I have really missed the immersive sound.
I could ditch the surround, have done that before, but never two front speakers.
Emil Jensen: I can only agree with you Sandyb, I sold my Beolab 20 and are waiting for my Beolab5 to arrive, In the mean time I have really missed the immersive sound. I could ditch the surround, have done that before, but never two front speakers.
Why are you replacing the BL20's with the BL5 ?
Aussie Michael: Even if coding is done overseas it’s not the coding but the management of the coding and testing and creating accurate test cases that’s important against that code.
Even if coding is done overseas it’s not the coding but the management of the coding and testing and creating accurate test cases that’s important against that code.
Nope.This is the usual statement from the board in a company that is actually only looking at the hourly rate for a developer, not what is delivered in that hour.It is often combined with other statements of wishful thinking like "failure is not an option".
If the delivered software is far off the expected delivery it means that the test cases cannot even be applied.By the time the the software is close enough to even start testing the market opportunity is already gone, or the board simply forces the software in its current state to the market when needed (exactly what B&O has done).
Either the development is done in close collaboration with the "business" (and that means they are more or less sitting together, at the absolute minimum in the same timezone, plus/minus one hour) or the requirement spec is bullet proof and watertight.Writing a rock solid requirement spec is extremely hard and astronomically time consuming, even for small applications like the B&O app, so the tight collaboration is what works.
By selecting the right subcontractor it can work to outsource, guys from former Eastern Europe are in my experience generally good.But absolutely forget India, that is a disaster waiting to happen.
Millemissen: Carolpa: You mean that you are deaf, blind and are in denial that this forum is a part of: "is Bang & Olufsen in trouble"? This forum is slowly turning into something that scares B&O newcomers away from B&O.
Carolpa: You mean that you are deaf, blind and are in denial that this forum is a part of: "is Bang & Olufsen in trouble"?
You mean that you are deaf, blind and are in denial that this forum is a part of: "is Bang & Olufsen in trouble"?
This forum is slowly turning into something that scares B&O newcomers away from B&O.
As *if* there are "B&O newcomers" out there
Besides, I really doubt the first thing they do is read this board. Do you go seeking out every board every time you make a new purchase? Of course not! You *might* come on to this board as an owner for feedback and support.
I can't remember the last "I'm new to this brand and thinking of buying...." post.
Please don't on here MM and try make us guilty that us - the long term owners and brand supporters - are bringing down the brand by being negative in certain forum discussions. If this was true, how Manchester United survives I don't know. Their board is purely negative vile.
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
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Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
BS9000 + BS Core + Beosystem 3 + BL8000 + BL4 + BL2 + BL7-1 // BeoVision 7 32“ + BL8000 // Beoplay M5 // Beoplay S3 // 2x BL3500 // 2x BeoPlay A6 + 2x Essence Remote // 2x BeoSound 8 // Playmaker + BL6000
moxxey: Millemissen: Carolpa: As *if* there are "B&O newcomers" out there
Millemissen: Carolpa:
Carolpa:
Actually there are. There was even a thread posted here yesterday from someone who walked in to a B and O shop by accident and asked for forum members' opinions on a possible purchase of BL18s, 19, Shape, Beovision among other things.
Beolab 28s Beolab 9s Beolab 12-3s Beolab 1s Beolab 6000s 2 pairs Beolab 4000s Beovision 7-55 Beovision 10-40 Beoplay V1 32 inch Beovision Avant 32 inch Beosound 1 (CD player) Beosound 3000 Beosound 5 Core Essence MKII Beoplay M5
Kristian Tear CEO:From my point of view, we are in a commercial crisis. We don't sell enough of our products and the reason is that we are not succeeding with our sales and marketing execution from a variety of perspectives.
Yes, B&O is in a commercial crisis, BUT the main reason are their unbelievable many product / software quality issues.
Today customers just move on to another brand, when they do not get the user experience they expect for their money. You see that strong movement away from B&O in the current sales crash. Reason is that B&O worked really hard to loose all trust in their technical competence over the last years on the technical side (e.g. Beosound 5, Moment and B&O App) and on the support side (e.g. online support is not able to answer any technical questions adequately, no detailed technical manuals available, many B&O dealers are technically overstrained).
Nothing you can solve just with sales and marketing in my eyes.
First of all B&O has to solve all these software / firmware quality issues to give an user experience adequate to the brand expectations (= high price luxury brand) and second they have to go the long way of regaining trust by over-average service and support.
We will see in 2020 whether B&O still has the necessary breath / cash for a turnaround.
mm08642: Yes, B&O is in a commercial crisis, BUT the main reason are their unbelievable many product / software quality issues. Today customers just move on to another brand, when they do not get the user experience they expect for their money.
Today customers just move on to another brand, when they do not get the user experience they expect for their money.
I agree,
It is no wonder that customers switch to a different brand if they buy the same service (sometimes for the technically identical device: LG!)from B & O at double or even triple the price and then only receive low-quality technical support.It is not enough for the discerning buyer to buy good Danish design with Korean, Japanese and Chinese content.Of course, not every manufacturer has to reinvent the wheel for themselves, so I understand that TV panels are used by OEM manufacturers, but this means that the competence is lost to a certain extent.
wilfried
Yes absolutely the proof is in the pudding
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-bang-olufsen-outlook/tv-and-headphones-maker-bo-out-of-tune-with-new-profit-warning-idUKKBN1YM0N6
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Chris Townsend:Not the best PR to start the year with. https://www.whathifi.com/news/bang-and-olufsen-is-struggling-to-sell-its-pricey-beovision-harmony-tvs-and-headphones Beovision Eclipse, BeoLab 17,Beolit 15, Beoplay A2 Active
Maybe beoworlders should link to (and read) the official reports from the company, that ‘ we all like so much’, instead of just relying on the writings of journalists.
https://investor.bang-olufsen.com/financial-reports/
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen: Maybe beoworlders should link to (and read) the official reports from the company, that ‘ we all like so much’, instead of just relying on the writings of journalists. https://investor.bang-olufsen.com/financial-reports/ MM
Always a great resource!
"In April, we will present a three-year strategy plan, outlining how we will ensure stronger long-term financial performance through increased consumer focus, specific sales initiatives, stronger and more frequent product releases and cost optimisations”, says CEO Kristian Teär.
I think the product pipeline is interesting. Nothing that suggests an Eclipse 2nd Gen or the new remote.
2020Q1:
* New "Flexible Living" product (not yet announced)* "On-the-Go" upgrade (E8 3rd Gen)* New colours (Contrast Collection announced today)
2020Q2:
* New "On-the-Go" product (hopefully wireless earbuds with ANC?)* New "Staged" model (Harmony 88" I guess)* "On-the-Go" upgrade (maybe an upgrade for a Bluetooth speaker? Those haven't been upgraded for a while)
Is the 10% price increase true?
Ban boring signatures!
Puncher: Is the 10% price increase true?
For what items?
The new Contrast Collection-items are all +/- 150-250 € above regular models.
I wonder why B&O never assess the impact of the changed product pricing in their financial statements (last year +300/400 € for BS1/BS2/BP A9).
Millemissen: Maybe beoworlders should link to (and read) the official reports from the company, that ‘ we all like so much’, instead of just relying on the writings of journalists.
You mean the same 'writing' that every consumer sees when they Google-search the brand?
They don't browse the financial report.
A circa 15% jump in the share price since yesterday morning...
Anyone know why?
9 LEE: A circa 15% jump in the share price since yesterday morning... Anyone know why?
New colours released?
9 LEE:A circa 15% jump in the share price since yesterday morning... Anyone know why?
Looks like a series of off book on market trades were placed. I’ll have a look at Bloomberg tomorrow. It’s also very thinly traded...
*off book, on exchange rather! Apologies!