ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I tried placing orders for the Beolab 6002s the other day because I like the design so much but no orders could be placed for them because they have been discontinued. Why can't B&O do what most hifi companies do to the models that sell well? Overhaul the internals and sell them at an escalated price. I think the aluminum enclosures of the column loudspeaker line including the Beolab4000s serve their functions well as being very non-resonant although they certainly can increase the rigidity by adding some aluminum ribbing or bracing in them. Is the ALT line really selling that well that it can replace the classic column line completely? I feel like the classic line can serve more like reference models than their current offerings if revised properly.
I can totally see the Beolab 6000s being reference grade mini loudspeakers for smaller spaces. Kinda like professional grade compact monitors without the need for stands! No need for more loudness or bass extension just revise the design to proper audiophile standards. And perhaps add more weight in the base plate to stabilize the loudspeakers better to accommodate the increase in drive unit quality and quantity? The Lab6000s are sweet sounding in its current incarnation but are mid-fi at best. The mid range is phasey, the bass is a little uneven and the high frequency unit favors the upper regions more than it does with the lower reaches.
I am not really sure about the whole Beolab 12 range because the bass drivers are facing the back and I am sure a lot of compromises are made for it to be done that way. The mid range driver is a 2 incher so they either have to push it to its limits to extend the lower frequency to the omnidirectional 100hz region or they simply crossover it higher in the 200hz- 300hz region to the bass drivers at the back which kinda leave the sound balance kinda odd and highly inaccurate. And they are kinda too flat physically for their own good for a normal stereo setup.
I dunno what do you guys think of the Beolab 12 range? I think they are flat, wide and tall with gimmicky lenses kinda like a stingray with its flat body and curved shaped orifice. I can't use them for computers because they are too tall mounted beside a monitor, and for a home theater setup, don't you think there will be too many 'light shows' going on that distract you from tv?
DAMN GUYS!!! Discontinuing the BL6002 is like Porsche taking the 911 out of their range!!!
Along with the BL8002, probably one of the most elegant, iconic designs ever.
I hated the BL12 when I saw it bling and cheap looking. I was horrified. And it seems to be under performing. Seems as though B&O has an identity crisis and has lost direction.
Damn Guys, we are loosing the iconic side of B&O designs - BS3200, 9000 etc. I say thank goodness we have the BV11 for design AND performance!
Whilst I could never fit BL6002 or 8000 in my apartment, my dream house would always of had those!
Yeah I don't get it too. Like why are the TVs in B&O priced so much higher than their stereo equipment when it is real the stereos that get the general public interested. I know that the panels are really expensive for B&O to buy in thus thus the escalated price so why not just put more focus on the stereos where everything can be made in house? B&W seems to be doing really quite well focusing on just stereo and their ipod docks, pseudo surround bars and headphones aren't even all that. It's the reference range of loudspeakers and their reputation in the audiophile circle that gained them respect with the public to get them to buy into the brand. it seems the reverse is true with B&O lol... The entry level products are beginning to present great value whereas the higher priced range are merely gimmicky underperforming bling bling pieces. Like WTF! I like bling but I want performance that goes along with the looks. Don't create products for a certain target market because you never know..... Everybody knows the Steve Jobs story right?! Make the best products and then convince the public that they need them.
The classic line is definitely more neutral sounding than the ALT range for sure except for the Beolab 5s of course. The ALT technology is a very hard technology to work around to make the whole system sound neutral. Consumers these days know good sound. B&O is overestimating the power of Bling because even my older sister who is like a casual music listener preferred my junior active ATC20 system to her B&W Nautilus 803 system. Most people can discern sound quality B&O! No women or guys I know about failed to not hear differences between systems. For some reason they know about distortion, coloration, impulse response inherently. They just to be made aware! And I was recently made a convert when to believing in quality interconnects when I upgraded the headphone cables on my Sennheiser 800s. I really didn't expect such a major difference. The old cables cracked so I got affordably priced, way shorter and correctly terminated replacement cables and guess what the sound quality changed dramatically! The trebles used to be a little peaky and the background noise was a little more apparent with the old cables but now I feel I have nothing to complain about the headphone setup anymore. My point is people can discern B&O!
Case in point, why do B&O loudspeaker hum so much when the rca interconnect is not connected to a source? Because your speakers are terribly sensitive to micro phonics! Consider balanced amplification and wiring topolgy and perhaps that will greatly boost the performance of your loudspeaker greatly with a small increase in production cost. All just abandon that and go digital throughout. Extreme high quality properly executed Dacs are available on the cheap these days and you get the option of putting a DSP to flatten your phase and frequency response of your loudspeakers too. I guess you can do away the playmaker and create individual external playmaker plugin modules for individual speakers. And when digital technology improves again you can get encourage your customers to upgrade again! This way you can totally retain your traditional active amplification topology with the added boost in DSP. And maybe the option of costly upgrading the internals too! Another money making strategy! B&O obviously built their reputation on long lasting active loudspeaker range so why not exploit it to their fullest potential?
B&O can do something like the latest Elipson active loudspeaker but without the horribly limiting Kleer technology. 24bit/196khz streaming might not be that prevalent yet but it is great marketing!
I grew up want to own B&O systems but now I feel like I am forcing myself to buy things from B&O out of sentiment.
Again.... Don't abandon your old range in favor of the new ALT range because the classic line have qualities that most high end systems dream of having. The aluminum enclosures were really paying off contributing to portraying great soundscapes but don't stop there. And refine your icepower topology further so that the top end will be kinder to the ears.
Excellent posts guys!
I feel like a huge bit of B&O Soul is getting lost. Most of the new stuff isn't very iconic. Who's gonna cry the day when the Beolab 12's will be discontinued. Not me. Beosound 5? Not me. Beoplay V1? Can't wait.
Surely the innards of the BL 8000/6000 could have been upgraded.
Too long to list....
Sorry about the grammatical errors guys. They have been horrid. But Beoworld removed the option to revising the posts made.
wonderfulelectric: Sorry about the grammatical errors guys. They have been horrid. But Beoworld removed the option to revising the posts made.
You can still edit your posts.
bayerische: wonderfulelectric: Sorry about the grammatical errors guys. They have been horrid. But Beoworld removed the option to revising the posts made. You can still edit your posts.
Oh how? The edit button has all but vanished.
I think guys it's because we are in a totally new direction and generation with the way most people are now using systems. I think it's clear that the days of separate TVs and Hifis are long gone except for the die hard.
Even 10 years ago when i first started at University I saw the change in the kids -zero sound systems / hifis in their rooms - just laptops and little speakers with a sub! I'm guilty of it too now, I use my MacBook for everything!!!!!
One brand that I loved for their reliability, performance and consistency was TECHNICS. That brand does not even exist anymore. When asked why, their CEO said no one was buying hifs anymore - instead opting for home cinema systems. It is strange that B&O was of course, noted for it's hifi range in the past, but now their strongest range is their TVs and of course their loudspeakers. Their hifi range is shocking BS5 etc. But I guess that is the way it has gone & i'm sure a BV11 with BL speakers with Apple TV streaming iTunes files would sound pretty decent in terms of hifi.
I think we need to except that audio, video, new technology have all come together and in a way, it is pretty fab!
wonderfulelectric: bayerische: wonderfulelectric: Sorry about the grammatical errors guys. They have been horrid. But Beoworld removed the option to revising the posts made. You can still edit your posts. Oh how? The edit button has all but vanished.
It should be under the "more" button.
Yes surely 20 years of production of the BL6000, they must be pretty cheap to make right now??? Even if they were available to special order?
How about a New Year's resolution to have postings without the text containing the now ubiquitous use of "Guys"?
Its inclusion adds nothing in meaning to a phrase or sentence.
Press the more button at the top right of your post.
Peter
kokomo: How about a New Year's resolution to have postings without the text containing the now ubiquitous use of "Guys"? Its inclusion adds nothing in meaning to a phrase or sentence.
Talk about waking up on the wrong side.
Hahaha yes there's always one miserable person who has to criticise someone isnt there.
Obviously a traditionalist which I have NO ROOM FOR! I say get a life!!!
Paul W: Hahaha yes there's always one miserable person who has to criticise someone isnt there. Obviously a traditionalist which I have NO ROOM FOR! I say get a life!!!
Kokomo has called me out before -and he was correct.
Paul W: Yes surely 20 years of production of the BL6000, they must be pretty cheap to make right now??? Even if they were available to special order?
I am not sure about that though aluminum prices have gone up plus I think a manual method is still used to polish the cabinets? Thus leading to my thought that the inerts must be overhauled to match the efforts put into the cabinet. A heavier and stabler base will be a great add on too. A great three way can be done with a well executed coaxial ( flat midrange cone with protruding tweeter to prevent inter modulation) for the mids and highs coupled with vibration free built in subwoofer with the likes of LAT woofer array tubular technology. Perfect impulse will be readily achieved with an add on playmaker DSP external plugin. Same playmaker modules for all beolabs but different different DSP softwares for each model will make that solution cheap. 64bit processing that is 24bit/196khz ready will be perfect!
LAT technology claims a performance of a 12 inch subwoofer in a tubular 3.5 inch array which is perfect size for the beolab 6000s. I think with that correctly included and implemented I think the beolab 6000s can go down to a flat 80hz in a sealed arrangement without a problem , probably -6db at 40hz. Btw the frequency response quoted on website is quoted +\- 10db so probably the best that the current beolab 6000s can do is down to 80hz or even 100 hz flat. And it gets better if they simply use a modified 3.5 inch balanced mode radiator for the midrange and up. The BMR is obviously a better alternative than say the ALT.
wonderfulelectric: I tried placing orders for the Beolab 6002s the other day because I like the design so much but no orders could be placed for them because they have been discontinued.
That's a bit curious - I asked my dealer today if he has any information about this topic.He was surprised, went to the computer and made a pro forma order / delivery date inquiry - after a short time the order system replied "instant" for aluminium body with white or black fabric and "a little bit more than 2 weeks" for aluminium/silver, dark grey/dark grey and black/black version.
He also said, all red and blue body versions have been discontinued during summer.
That's so strange. Okay I will ask my dealer again. I was trying to change my prepaid order for tha A9 to the lab6000s and he said the factory isn't accepting any orders. The thing about the dealership in Taiwan is that the distributor ship do not belong to B&O and the stocks for the country is low.
Don't know what is his deal. I am getting a little annoyed.
Can anybody confirm this for me? I might even want to cancel my order for the A9s. I am feeling so exploited right now. A dealer who lies? Unacceptable! Besides I am not even staying in Taiwan for long. I only got the A9s because I thought I can use it whilst I am here during the winter break but now that the A9 is only going to arrive in February and factor in the fact that he might be lying to me about the Lab6002s then... I have full right to cancel.
What kind is the electricity connections/voltage in Taiwan? Could be that Euro shuko Beolab6000's are still available at the factory stock, but your country specific ones are out.
Well it's 110V. Hating the way they handle things here.I was looking at Amazon and they have 19 Beoplay A9s in stock!
I dunno maybe i should cancel. By the way what's the price for the Beolab6002s over there. I was quoted 3400 GBP for a floor model.
And I got the A9s for 2067 GBP all including taxes of course.
LOL. I think it might be time for the moderator to step in and clarify a few things I am so confused. In a way I think the dealership is stopping me from taking advantage of the free playmaker promotion. If it is true cancellation it is!
Well, there might be the thing, as ours run on 220-240v.
Standard all across EU.
Price is somewhere around 3100 euro/pair here I think.
I guess prices here are 20% more here. Anyway I really hope they discontinue it just to totally overhaul it to create a super mini speaker.
B&O is definitely facing stiff competition in the posh hifi sector as consumers are becoming more tech savvy and discriminating than ever. But please don't discontinue your museum quality/ industry changing piece. It just have so much potential. I mean ALT technology really? It is so limiting stylistically, technologically and not to mention very expensive too. Anyway enough of my grievance of the passing of the sound producing elegant columns of aluminum. Perhaps I will just get a couple of flawless used pairs, commission someone to get them modified to my specs and send them back to Struer for assessment. I am kinda shy to say this but I actually have a nearly 2 decades old pair of 6000s sitting in my bedroom right now. They are not mine but my mom's. They can totally be like the monogram bags of louis vuitton. Because it is technological, make it modular and upgradeable so it will never go out of style. I suggest easily removable baffle, drive units and baffles. Make the progressive upgrades costly but worthwhile so it will totally be mutually beneficial for both the owners and the business, and not to mention the environment!
Yes! A no compromise evergreen collection of speakers for Bang & Olufsen. A relaunch party for the line will definitely be a lucrative marketing strategy. No electronic companies have done that before. Be the first!
Come to think of it the aluminum column range of loudspeakers can be the eames chair and flos lamps of the electronics world. Who says they need to be affordable?
I guess the only way around this is to buy an ex demo pair so long as you can find the colour that you really want!
It still doesn't really make sense to discontinue this to me but hey...
I think it is the labor cost involved in making the cabinet that has gotten to high that it might not be worthwhile continue making it because the performance won't be able to match the price increase. That's why I suggest a no compromise reference level version instead where the internals can go with the shell along with a price to match. A 3.5 inch custom made BMR and bespoke LAT tubular bass topology is the way to. When I researched on the LAT drivers, they were quickly pulled out of the DIY market because apparently the performance is too high for silly money, it is now OEM only but I don;t think most audio manufacturer dare to use it because that will mean the cabinet construction wouldn't matter as much anymore. But this technology will definitely serve the column range well where space is limited, the form is tubular and the construction is light. No detectable distortion all the way up to over 1khz and goes all the way down low without contributing to cabinet resonances because it is an almost vibration free design. And properly executed BMR will surely beat an ALT with a tiny midrange combo in terms of like almost everything. If it is good enough for the Naim reference speakers it will be good enough for the column range. I suggest B&O discontinue both the 6000s and 8000s only to relaunch it in like half a year later for a big surprise. lol.
I agree with Paul that together with the 8000, the 6000 is the 911 in the Porsche range. But we take for granted that the Beolab 12 is the natural ancestor to both. We have seen the Beovision 10 replaced by the better Beovision 11, so maybe we should just wait with baited breath for a new wave of iconic speakers.
Lets hope so anyway(GULP)
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Are there plans for a new column loudspeaker?
Chris Townsend: I agree with Paul that together with the 8000, the 6000 is the 911 in the Porsche range. But we take for granted that the Beolab 12 is the natural ancestor to both. We have seen the Beovision 10 replaced by the better Beovision 11, so maybe we should just wait with baited breath for a new wave of iconic speakers. Lets hope so anyway(GULP)
I dont think the Beolab 6000, 4000, or 6000 should ever be phased out but instead revised both internally and externally to match the performances of their aesthetic. They can easily be made reference products if done spruced up properly. It's these three loudspeakers that have now defined B&O as a brand, granted the Beosound Century and Beosound9000 were major players in making that happen too but disk players like those are they. The problem with them has never been their build quality if you compare them with other products with high end hifi equipments but rather their internal components and performances that have been compromised to lower the retail prices as to increase the volume of sales but now that there are other products in B&O that can be the main sources of revenue for the brand, B&O can raise the standards of those speakers to where they should be - high end. It will be just like how the Nautilus range in B&W serve for the rest of the sub brands in the company and look at how well they are doing now?
Tv technology change at a rapid pace but not basic loudspeaker designs look at how some models in B&W, Wilson Benesch, ATC, Wilson Audio have remained in the range for so long but with just revisions on the way. Some of the models in fact never change their cosmetics but just have their components upgraded. This approach will serve B&O better than those other companies because it has their own exclusively trained staff of technicians in every country. So unlike those other brands the loudspeakers may not be moved or shipped to be upgraded at all!
Sometimes products must be priced appropriately to sell like how sometimes dresses in the $600 dollar range might not sell as well as dresses in the $6000 range. Same applies to high end audio.
Those speakers in B&O referred above are triumphs in electronic and loudspeaker designs that best represents the company so yeah make them truly iconic that make the most discriminating of consumers drop their jaws. The ALT ranges will never be iconic because they were never truly accomplished in any areas, not in terms of design, price or performance. And again the ALT is an acoustic compromise if executed wrongly which is in all but one design. The funniest thing is that those lenses weren't that special in terms of design at all there were acoustic lenses that existed way back when, executed differently of course, If B&O wants 180 degree dispersion a well executed BMR is the only way to go in a form that can be both compact and close to perfect acoustically.
Well one thing is true, the BL6000 and BL8000 aren't up to the price spec sound wise. Design wise YES, but the soundstage is lacking.
So it might be that they aren't selling?
Sure they can be helped by the BL2, but it's not only the base that's lacking.
I would like to see them stay on the speaker range forever, but a column speaker is surely not the ultimate solution as far as sound goes. Think about the BL1. Lovely design, but the reason for discontinuing it so fast?
The BL9 is a very good performer IMHO, the BL5's always get the credit, and they are much better than the BL9's.
If I had usage for another set of smaller speakers at home, I would get the BL9's. They are excellent. I'm sure for the price 7900 euro it's not too easy to find a third party setup that would blow them out of the water. Say 3500e amp and 4500 euro speakers.
The problem with BL6000 and even the BL8000 is the second hand market. They are a victim of their own success. Lets be frank they have been around for around 20 years and been sold in big numbers. Why buy new speakers when you can pick them up for 1/3 or even less in like new conditions? I would rather pick up a second hand set today than buying new thats for sure.
I bought my BL8000 new many years ago. They kept their price on the second hand market for many years because B&O kept rising their prices on new sets. It was almost like buying a new Rolex watch. I think those years are gone regarding B&O at present. Their portfolio are old and the only way forward are probably to develop new design and speakers.
Don´t get me wrong. I think the BL6000 and BL8000 are timeless. The design is still beautifulI. I will never sell my set ever so second hand prices have not been of any concern for my part. I have been thinking of buying a set of BL6000 even if I´m not that impressed by the sound of the 6000. But as a rear speaker they can´t be that bad and they are not expensive second hand. Another option could be to pick up a second set of BL8000.
Since the Lab 6000s and 9000s are what truly represents the essence of B&O to the common people it will only make sense in terms of marketing etc... To overhaul them to reference standard. I don't think many people know that the Beolab 9s even existed. Just like how couture is to fashion labels and how the Nautilus range is to B&W.......
The aesthetic must most definitely follow the performance! Have you seen a company with loudspeakers that just get worse in terms of build when you go up the range?
They can definitely jack up the price of the 6000s or 9000s up to the level of the the Lab 9s and beyond if the quality delivers. Let say upgrade the both beolab 6000 and 9000 to full metal design as in even the sockets and connections are CNC machined and that the base of the lab 6000s to full metal instead of semi plastic and then have the most refined and latest version of Icepower be used in the speakers and include the best cutting-edge driver technologies available like the BMR and LAT subwoofers I mentioned. Then it will be marketing perfection! When people think of B&O they will think out of this world sound + design. Again differentiate in terms of quality and not quantity. That's how serious hifi companies sell their speakers anyway. They don't price their speakers according to the SPL delivered ,bass extension or Watts. It's so Crass! B&O isn't Bose or Sharp! Think how many many audiophiles will be attracted to the B&O brand again? Plus the pro market for expensive active speakers is huge compared to the usual audiophile market too so if B&O knows how to steer the company well I say the future is very bright for them. From what I can see now is that the brand seem kind of desperate and has gone a little cuckoo in terms of their product portfolio. It is totally disorientating! And dump the ALT already it is obviously not practical on any level now that you have the BMR out. The lenses are costly to machine, limits the overall tone of the speakers unless you go big like the lab5s and not really that chic.
They don't have to sell much but it will be great marketing. They would totally have to rename the speakers and relaunch them carefully though.
Anyway I just corresponded with a sales rep in the states. It doesn't seem that B&O is pulling the Beolab6000s out of production so this may be just a bunch of hoopla. I am heading down to the store tomorrow to get a full refund on the A9s and then order directly from the States and arrange to have it delivered myself. It's just so disgusting how the staff in Taiwan tried so hard to stop me from taking advantage of the free playmaker promotion. Awful awful awful.
You could always buy a pre-loved pair . There's lots out there looking for nice homes.
Well, good to know that the BL6000 will be around!!!!
I'm sure the revised editions are better, but I'm sure they could me made even better.
bayerische: I'm sure the revised editions are better, but I'm sure they could me made even better.
I'm not sure they are - I understand the changes made were primarily to comply with standby power regulations. Interestingly, B&O made no performance related claims at all at the time of introduction - a bit of a clue I'd think!
Ban boring signatures!
Puncher: bayerische: I'm sure the revised editions are better, but I'm sure they could me made even better. I'm not sure they are - I understand the changes made were primarily to comply with standby power regulations. Interestingly, B&O made no performance related claims at all at the time of introduction - a bit of a clue I'd think!
Well, then they cold definitely be made better! In "small", well volume wise, speakers the quality of the drivers are important.