ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I have had b &o for 40 odd years but every year now it seams the end clock is ticking.!
What do you make of this...
https://www.channelnews.com.au/is-danish-sound-company-bang-olufsen-set-to-go-belly-up/
Covid-19 is going to put many firms out of business, although successful companies may get government grants or loans for the short term. How important is B&O to the Danish government?
Graham
How impotent?
Well, perhaps a closing down would be the best thing that could happen after all At least it would perhaps - just perhaps - put a stop to all the damn rumours, storytellings and discussions about this!!Better sell all your B&O stuff while there is time! You might lose money!!!! Go! Go! Go!
Or...?
Impotent? A misspelling that might be more accurate than it seems for B&O.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
.
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seethroughyou:This has been covered to death over the years and not just recently. What more can one say? We could list the mistakes that B&O have made and also the problems they have sadly faced. To me, they still seem marketing-obsessed, neglectful of their dealers and their long term devoted customer base, have non-existent customer service and have got disproportionately expensive despite salaries remaining stagnant or for most part in retrograde over the last 10 years. I want B&O to succeed but they won’t or can’t change.
To quote the article :
"As one observer said, “most people want to see and hear a premium audio or TV before they buy and right now with the Coronavirus this is hard”."
Without stores, as a premium AV brand, you're screwed in my opinion....
You can buy on brand reputation online (B&O have lost this thanks to their utterly embarrassing PLAY product reviews), or you can rely on being an 'aspirational brand' (B&O are nowhere near this with anyone under 45 years old, on the whole), and many of their loyal customers have defected to brands which offer 80% of the experience for 35% of the price.
B&O will go bust in their current form. I have little doubt if things continue as they are.
After that, it's who buys them - and how much they want to resurrect an iconic brand, with a beautiful history, and a network of dealers who desperately want the brand to be great again.
Hopefully the first thing they do is sack the current board, retain the amazing talent they have already employed, then get to work on rebuilding the reputation.
Please feel free to disagree with me, and state your case!
9 LEE: Please feel free to disagree with me, and state your case!
I don't disagree. You know me Lee. I was about to move to the States in March and that hasn't happened due to the current climate, so been looking at rebuilding some B&O kit, but with a little reluctance. As I work in technology publishing, before purchasing, I did some digging.
Dealers are really keen to do deals. I've just bought an Edge for 60% off. I've been told to 'name your price and I'll see what I can do' by another dealer. They want to clear stock. It's just sitting in closed stores earning them no money when many of them still need to pay rent.
I've also been told that forthcoming releases which were due imminently are now on hold and been told to tell people 'still in development' (Eclipse v2 for example).
My view is, there's going to be a different world once we get back to normal from September. People won't have money. Even those with money will be reluctant to spend. Dealers know this. They can see what's coming. With this in mind, it's going to be hugely difficult to shift B&O product this year. Sadly I think it's too late to change. They needed to do that long before this current climate.
Barry Santini:Throw out all european management!!!
Get Trump in instead? "They have done a tremendous job...."
9 LEE: To quote the article : "As one observer said, “most people want to see and hear a premium audio or TV before they buy and right now with the Coronavirus this is hard”." Without stores, as a premium AV brand, you're screwed in my opinion.... You can buy on brand reputation online (B&O have lost this thanks to their utterly embarrassing PLAY product reviews), or you can rely on being an 'aspirational brand' (B&O are nowhere near this with anyone under 45 years old, on the whole), and many of their loyal customers have defected to brands which offer 80% of the experience for 35% of the price. B&O will go bust in their current form. I have little doubt if things continue as they are. After that, it's who buys them - and how much they want to resurrect an iconic brand, with a beautiful history, and a network of dealers who desperately want the brand to be great again. Hopefully the first thing they do is sack the current board, retain the amazing talent they have already employed, then get to work on rebuilding the reputation. Please feel free to disagree with me, and state your case!
Mantoni brought his McKinseyian model to save a dying B&O and enhance shareholder value. Chinese sourcing and manufacturing, brand management, selling off non-core business, and CEO face of the company did not work.
But without him, B&O would not have lasted this long.
The only people making money in the company today are fired executives.
Corona Virus is merely euthanasia for many companies, but as long as they have 2 Kroner to rub together, B&O will live.
Here is my 2 cents to that article:
1. The stock price of a company is not an indication of whether a company will go bankrupt. The best thing that Bang and Olufsen can do now is to go private and go about rebuilding their business - which they are.
2. The article states that in the last quarter they lost $250,000 (not sure if that is AUD or USD) but in either case it is not a big deal.
3. Their future will be determined by how well they can sell their current wireless product line that is in the sub $3,000 range. It is where the market is at.
Unlike many people here, I actually think B&O has modernized their product line and is much more competitive today. I really enjoy all their newer products a lot.
In general, this is a poorly written article because it is equating stock price to the condition of a company - just like we often confuse the stock market with state of the economy.
I am rooting for B&O in the same way I rooted for Sony and Apple when they were struggling...
B&O in my life 😊:
I'd suggest the stock market is actually a decent indicator of whether a company risks bankruptcy.
More accurately it indicates the confidence investors have in the company's prospects (not great at the moment).
Is the market always right? Of course not, they can get too pessimistic and / or the company can reverse its fortunes.
But to suggest the stock price has little to no informational content is absurd.
Bankruptcy (or administration) will pretty much always be preceded by a material decline in the stock price. Tangible asset value can provide a floor, but that shouldn't be confused for optimism.
I'm rooting for B&O too - but Apple's recovery was marked by a strength of management, vision, execution and a certain innovation that B&O have zero chance of even halfway replicating. And moreover they seized upon a market opportunity, with iTunes / iPod, and took advantage of it in a generational way. Again, not a option for a niche operator like B&O.
Jaffrey2230: Here is my 2 cents to that article: 1. The stock price of a company is not an indication of whether a company will go bankrupt. The best thing that Bang and Olufsen can do now is to go private and go about rebuilding their business - which they are. 2. The article states that in the last quarter they lost $250,000 (not sure if that is AUD or USD) but in either case it is not a big deal. 3. Their future will be determined by how well they can sell their current wireless product line that is in the sub $3,000 range. It is where the market is at. Unlike many people here, I actually think B&O has modernized their product line and is much more competitive today. I really enjoy all their newer products a lot. In general, this is a poorly written article because it is equating stock price to the condition of a company - just like we often confuse the stock market with state of the economy. I am rooting for B&O in the same way I rooted for Sony and Apple when they were struggling...
9 LEE: "As one observer said, “most people want to see and hear a premium audio or TV before they buy and right now with the Coronavirus this is hard”." Without stores, as a premium AV brand, you're screwed in my opinion...
Without stores, as a premium AV brand, you're screwed in my opinion...
In the event anyone in the NYC area has a burning desire to audition/purchase a B&O product during these stressful times. the B&O store in Manhattan will accommodate you by setting up a private demonstration (I have NO connection with the establishment; just trying to be helpful. mods: feel free to remove if in violation).
https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/find-store/USOU000095
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I got the following reply when I posted the article on FB:
"that reporter is the biggest flog in the AV industry..
Dave Richards only sides with brands that give him something. His stories generally have facts that are wrong or outdated...B&O never gave him anything for free so he’s on a hate campaign and will report something negative at least once a week He’s current best friend is the manager of Aqipa, who also doesn’t know actual facts and it’s funny when a story is reported because it makes the 2 of them look stupid. Aqipa also used to sell B&O heavily discounted and got shitty that the new wholesalers of B&O Australia reduced his margin... he was doing more bad than good"
Well, if you saw it on Facebook it must be true!
Mikipidia:As far as iam aware dealers here are open but have limited the amount of people able to go in.
Here in the US only 'essential' retailers are legally allowed to remain open. These include food, pharmacy, transport-related, and banks. This is why Apple and Best Buy are closed (curbside pickup excepted for Best Buy, but the store is closed) B&O stores closed according to their own web site. (The number of people able to go in has always been self-limiting).
https://stores.bang-olufsen.com/en/united-states/ny/new-york/600-madison-ave
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Independent of whether it was on Facebook or not, that article is poorly researched and written. Clearly there are facts in there, but they don’t tell the story. Yes, B&O is losing money, but they are not bleeding cash and they are launching products are seem to be better fit for the current market. They are also focusing on certain markets and product lines. We’ll see in the next few quarters how they do. The reason we don’t hear how other high end audio companies are doing is because they are private. I feel that B&O will be better off as a private rather than a publicly traded company at this point.
Jeff:Well, if you saw it on Facebook it must be true! Jeff I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
MediaBobNY: Here in the US only 'essential' retailers are legally allowed to remain open.
Here in the US only 'essential' retailers are legally allowed to remain open.
I had a chat with my Austin-based business partner yesterday and he was driving around in his car, dropping off clothes at dry cleaning and other chores, even though he told me he was "in lockdown".
We can't do any of these things in the UK! I'm mostly stuck in the house.
I think Texas is opening up further from Monday where retailers can open and offer a "to go" service.
kuyttendaele: Jeff: Well, if you saw it on Facebook it must be true! Jeff I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Ok... a Wikipedia about the author then? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_W._Richards
Jeff: Well, if you saw it on Facebook it must be true! Jeff I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Ok... a Wikipedia about the author then?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_W._Richards
Oh, well then...Wikipedia, that's an unbiased source for sure!
Dave Richards is a poor excuse of a reporter.
He only sides with a brand that give him something for free, hes a product whore to the industry.
He gets along with the manager of Aqipa, who used to distribute B&O Play in Australia, They did a poor job and complained about low margins. Aqipa would sell to smaller retailers who didn't give a *** about protecting RRP and didn't know the product. The new distributor of B&O in Australia took back distribution, and Aqipa didn't walk away as reported.
Any opportunity Dave gets to be negative towards B&O, he goes with it, dig deep into the Channel News website.
A store closed last year due to personal reasons, yet his heading of "Another B&O dealer struggles" is lies...