ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I'm currently exploring possiblities to get into the B&O world. Currently I've quite a nice 3.1 setup with a proper Hi-Fi receiver (ARCAM AVR550) subwoofer (Velodyne 1200 ultra) and Monitor Audio Gold speakers. But I want to simplify my setup with less devices and don't want to loose out on audio quality. I like B&O's approach to design, audio and integration.
I love watching movies on my Oppo UDP-203 Bluray player but love to listen to music as well.
As I currently own a Sony A1 Oled I was just looking at adding a Beosound stage. But looking at reviews I'm not sure if I will be happy with the sound quality as sub is not super and can't connect any other speakers in the future to upgrade. But pricewise its very competitive.
The other option would be to buy just a pair of Beolab 28's. But so far I can't find how I could properly connect these speakers to my non-B&O TV.
And finally I could buy a Beovision Eclipse. This would get me properly into B&O world. But how does that Eclipse soundbar compares to the Stage? Or is Eclipse's sound bar designed to be a center speaker in addition to extra pairs of Beolabs (28's ie)?
Hope you guys could get me in the right direction.
- Beovision Eclipse 55 Mk2 - Beolab 19 - Beosound Shape - Oppo UDP-203
Welcome to the forum! Congrats on your first post!
I'll bump your post because it's a great question... Stage vs. Eclipse sound. I suppose one could argue this is a silly question because the price difference between the two options is so significant, perhaps they wouldn't be cross-shopped. But nonetheless, an interesting question.
1. Stage bass performance is supposedly quite, quite good. I haven't heard it myself so I can't say but everyone here says, and everything I've read says, that it's quite impressive. Now, that is a relative statement--impressive compared to what? And if your comparison is a standalone 12" subwoofer you might indeed find it lacking. If you want the bass performance of a 12" standalone sub, you may not even find BL28 or BL20 satisfactory. You may need two BL19's or a pair of BL50. Others can chime in more.
But yes--good research--you cannot connect other speakers to a Stage.
2. Three options I am aware of for connecting BL28 to a non-B&O TV. (a) WISA (dongle or external box likely required); (b) S8 connection hub; (c) optical cables.
3. Eclipse is designed as a 3.0 standalone system which is expandable using other B&O speakers to much larger surround setups, in which case you can use the entire Eclipse speaker array for the center channel alone.
I'd love to hear from people more familiar how the Eclipse sounds compared to Stage. My guess is Stage has more bass performance because it has newer generation, high-excursion 4" drivers. The Eclipse's 4" drivers are the previous generation with less performance (but not poor performance--great performance!)
I hope that helps and kicks off the discussion. Welcome again.
Currently: BeoLab 17, BeoLab 18, BeoSound Core, Beosound Level, Beosound A1 2nd Gen, BeoPlay S8 Connection Hub, Halo, Essence Remote
Previously: BeoSound 1 non-GVA
Thanks for the answers and opinions. I wasn't really aware that its not that easy to get the same (or 'equivalent') sub performance as I have now. However, I'm willing to do a step back if that simplifies my system.
I agree with you that many reviews rate the stage as quite good, but as you said compare to what? Only my sub alone is more expensive than the Stage it self, so it's also hard to compare as its in another segment. I didn't really thought about that point This goes the same way regarding your point that the Eclipse and Stage are usually not being cross-shopped.
As digging through more online reviews I think I need to forget the soundbar option anyway as it will be 'ok' but will never get close to my current setup, also has to do with woofer size which a much smaller soundbar just can't compete with.
This leaves me to the final question if I should go for a pair of BL28 and use a convertor box. Would be great to hear users opinion on bass levels of the BL28.
Probably just need to checkout the local dealer to evaluate the sound my self, but probably like many of you want to get some own research done before walking in to the dealer and doing it sales pitch.
Exactly what PaulGiles writes, the Stage has an incredible bass. I had the Avant NG with 2x Beolab 20. 3.1 with this setup was amazing, especially the Avant was the center speaker and the Beolab 20 for the rest. I changed to the LG and the Stage and of course there is a different but the Stage is amazing when sitting in front of it. With a good source I could swear the Beolabs 20 are still playing but they aren't there anymore. Simply amazing.
PaulGiles:Yep. Just confirming what we already know and love B&O really do know their stuff when it comes to sound. Pop along to you local dealer and test them side by side.
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Present: BL90, Core, BL6000, CD7000, Beogram 7000, Essence Remote.
Past: BL1, BL2, BL8000, BS9000, BL5, BC2, BS5, BV5, BV4-50, Beosystem 3, BL3, DVD1, Beoremote 4, Moment.
Thanks for all the input and its really down to hearing it your self and deciding what you prefer. This is mostly true for all audio but I thought there would be a clear difference in sound between them but apparantly they are close and have their own specifics. use cases and price.
Apparantly we will be going for the Eclipse route, basically because I don't like that the Stage can't be extended to any other speaker in the future. I could buy a stage and wait for the moment it will allow connections but it will not be able to do any B&O integration stuff like use the Beoremote to controll all the other devices.
To start off will go for the Eclipse with a Beolab 19 to give some punch in movies. Could I use two Balance's as Left and right channels? I'm going to the dealer but still like to be informed myself as my experience with other brand dealer is they don't know everything whats possible or not.
You won't be able to use two Balances as L and R channels with an Eclipse, unfortunately. Supposedly, this is in the works but no one knows for sure or knows timing.
Just came back from my visit to our local dealer. Wasn't really impressed by the whole experience, dealer wanted to sell me a Loewe system which I told him I didn't like as I was coming for the design of the B&O. He told me the eclipse sounded great but didn't demo it. Had to ask for a demo, he turned on a regular TV program to show off its capabilities. Not impressed, so I asked to start youtube with some music.
That was better, now I could get some real impression of the sound. Sound stage is wide but it lacks a lot of bass wow, didn't expect that. It really needs a sub. Than I listened to the stage, the stage bass performance is a lot better than eclipse but sound wise it sounds really compressed and not as wide and crisp as the eclipse.
A pair of Balance as Left and Right is not possible according to the dealer, only for music not for tv/movie.
Need to listen to an eclipse with subwoofer attached. Will see another dealer if they could help me out.
Setup is crucially important for things to look and sound right. The latest B&O gear has so many adjustments. Difficult to believe but most dealers do not/can not set this equipment up properly. I listened to Beolab 5's in dealers for years again and again and was far from impressed everytime. Then I heard them from a used dealer, fell in love and bought them!
I would suggest another dealer, give yourself loads of time and play around with sound and picture levels?
swestland: Just came back from my visit to our local dealer. Wasn't really impressed by the whole experience, dealer wanted to sell me a Loewe system which I told him I didn't like as I was coming for the design of the B&O. He told me the eclipse sounded great but didn't demo it. Had to ask for a demo, he turned on a regular TV program to show off its capabilities. Not impressed, so I asked to start youtube with some walgreenslistens music. That was better, now I could get some real impression of the sound. Sound stage is wide but it lacks a lot of bass wow, didn't expect that. It really needs a sub. Than I listened to the stage, the stage bass performance is a lot better than eclipse but sound wise it sounds really compressed and not as wide and crisp as the eclipse. A pair of Balance as Left and Right is not possible according to the dealer, only for music not for tv/movie. Need to listen to an eclipse with subwoofer attached. Will see another dealer if they could help me out.
Just came back from my visit to our local dealer. Wasn't really impressed by the whole experience, dealer wanted to sell me a Loewe system which I told him I didn't like as I was coming for the design of the B&O. He told me the eclipse sounded great but didn't demo it. Had to ask for a demo, he turned on a regular TV program to show off its capabilities. Not impressed, so I asked to start youtube with some walgreenslistens music.
Thanks for the information, I will try to figure it out for more. Keep sharing such informative post.
I'm surprised about the lack of bass. While I have a sub connected to my Eclipse, I rarely use it as, for me in my home, the bass is perfectly adequate. I do turn it on for action / adventure movies, but don't always remember, and my wife says she really can't tell that much of a difference.
Perhaps it wasn't setup correctly, or the showrooms was very large or acoustically dead... or we have very different bass performance expectations.
swestland:Just came back from my visit to our local dealer. Wasn't really impressed by the whole experience, dealer wanted to sell me a Loewe system which I told him I didn't like as I was coming for the design of the B&O. He told me the eclipse sounded great but didn't demo it. Had to ask for a demo, he turned on a regular TV program to show off its capabilities. Not impressed, so I asked to start youtube with some music. That was better, now I could get some real impression of the sound. Sound stage is wide but it lacks a lot of bass wow, didn't expect that. It really needs a sub. Than I listened to the stage, the stage bass performance is a lot better than eclipse but sound wise it sounds really compressed and not as wide and crisp as the eclipse. A pair of Balance as Left and Right is not possible according to the dealer, only for music not for tv/movie. Need to listen to an eclipse with subwoofer attached. Will see another dealer if they could help me out.
New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 28's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay Portal, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0
Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia
Mikipedi4 on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mikipedi4
Mikipedia on Intagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikipedi4/
Old: Beosound 9000 mk3, Beolab 3's, Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
Yesterday I went to see another dealer and I gotta say this was the experience I was expecting. The eclipse sounded a lot better, so I guess the other dealer didnt configure it properly.
This dealer quickly grabbed a Beolab 19 and configged it as a sub on the eclipse and this did a lot to the sound for me. The bass it was lacking was now added. Sub was not further tuned so I think there was still a lot to gain when properly setup.
I listened back to back, with sub and without. On some music and a Dolby demo. The whole sounds gets a lot warmer, deeper and more full.
The eclipse still has a harsh upper levels which I'm not used to. After about an half hour of listening I was used to this and it turned into a more 'crisp' sound to me. Probably can be tweaked more according to my taste. I have read the sound design config pdf on the B&O site and there is a LOT to configure I figured out.
Stan: I'm surprised about the lack of bass. While I have a sub connected to my Eclipse, I rarely use it as, for me in my home, the bass is perfectly adequate. I do turn it on for action / adventure movies, but don't always remember, and my wife says she really can't tell that much of a difference. Perhaps it wasn't setup correctly, or the showrooms was very large or acoustically dead... or we have very different bass performance expectations.
I think our expectations are different, I have a very good sub at the moment (Velodyne SPL1200Ultra), a 12" 1200 watt sub can't compare to a 2x 8" 320 watt one I think. Although the Beolab 19 performed very well in the big showroom. In my living room (80m2) it will be decent and adds the extra that I was missing on the eclipse alone. But I could clearly hear the difference between having the Beolab 19 playing or not.
Mikipidia: Where is your dealer located? This is a very strange experience by the sound of it, i wonder if it’s all setup rightHuh?
Where is your dealer located? This is a very strange experience by the sound of it, i wonder if it’s all setup rightHuh?
I don't want to name and shame, I'll send it to you in a PM. As I said above it clearly has to do with set up and the knowledge of the dealer. The last dealer was also selling the TV panel as seperate LG one to save on the cost and told me that maybe in feb/march there even will be a new LG panel then we could even get that one. I will be needing the Eclipse by Februari so thats why.
All in all, I'm going to bite the bullet and go for this combination to replace all my HiFi gear. It's the best combination of design, integration options, sound and tv. And eventually option to upgrade the system with more speakers. Maybe a Shape as rear surrounds? :o
Mikipidia:Shape as rear surround is a sweet looking setup and sound good too. Very minimalistic and very stylish New: Beovision Harmony, Beolab 50's, Beolab 18's, Beolab 17's, Beolab 3's, Beosound 9000 mk3, Beosound Stage & LG, Beosound 2, Beoplay M3, Beoplay A1, Beoplay H4 gen 2, Beoplay E8 3.0 Mikipedia on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/Mikipedia mikipedi4 on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/mikipedi4 Old: Beovision Eclipse, Beolab 1's, Beolab 2, Beovision 10-46, Overture 2300, beolab 8000's, Beolab 4000's, Beovision avant 32" etc. etc.
I'm also really considering this. But first wait for the Eclipse and Beolab 19 to arrive in Februari, then will see what to do afterwards. Or maybe, as its still 4 months ahead, I allready ordered the Shape as well . Just need to convince myself, and the wife, that I need one
Is there any reason you are not considering the Harmony TV over the Eclipse? Both good TVs, just curious what makes you choose the Eclipse over the Harmony?
B&O products are V1-32, BS2, H95, E8 and an Essence remote.11-46 now replaced with Sony A90J 65”, Sony HT-A9, Sony UBP-X800M2 and Sony SRS-NS7.
Yes, size. The TV will be hang in a newly designed wall cabinet. So if I took the harmony it would be to big. It's currently under design, once I have impressions I will share them.
To give you guys a small update, this is how the designer made the first 3D impression. Looked like she almost put a Balance on the right :P
Anway, looks good. Its going to be made somewhere in Januari so still some waiting time ahead.
PaulGiles:One thing is for sure, the Bass on the Stage is absolutely amazing.
I agree. If you watch a 4K DVD, the audio can make the Stage shift about as it's trying to handle the deep bass (and winning)! Mine will often move a few centimetres when watching a movie.
Sadly can't comment on the Eclipse as I've never been able to compare the two speakers.
Quick update.I decided to throw in the Shape as a rear surround speaker as well! While throwing money at it why don't do it properly, right?
It's going to be a 7 tile setup so I can have 4 speakers, I will not be using a core as it will be connected by Powerlink to my Eclipse. Finally I will be able to enjoy surround when watching movies. This is something I always missed from my current 3.1 setup. And by adding the Shape I have lot more options to listen to music.
Here's a quick preview from B&O AR's app. And now starts the wait, depending on delivery times they might already install the shape prior to the Eclipse install end of January.
BV Harmony 65 / Eclipse 55 / BL 50 / 19 / 18 / BS 2 all brass
BV Horizon 48 / V1 40 / BL 17 / Beoplay S3 all black
V1 / BL 3 / BS Essence MKII / Beoplay A3 all white
BS Moment / BS 3000 / BS 3200 / BL 400 all silver
Headphones / bluetooth speakers / BLC NL-ML / BLGateway
I know…B&O virus has grown on me !
Fansastic:Nice addition to the Eclipse! As far as I know you need a core in the shape, also when you use the Shape with the Eclipse. It also needs to be wired through powerlink to use it as rear speakers. I recommend you to add front left and right speakers also for a proper surround sound. The 3 way speakers of the Eclipse will not give you the big front soundstage in surround setup. In your design cabinet black BL17’s would look stunning!
I recommend you to add front left and right speakers also for a proper surround sound. The 3 way speakers of the Eclipse will not give you the big front soundstage in surround setup. In your design cabinet black BL17’s would look stunning!
No, as far as my research goes you only need a core for the initial setup, after this you can remove it in case you will be only using it from your BV. If you want to use it standalone then you will need the core to stream music to it. In case of connection to a BV you directly connect the Shape's amp to the BV with powerlink. But you can't do the 'band on the wall effect' though without a core as far as I know. But I'm not looking for that as it's only a small shape setup so I think the band on the wall effect isn't something that will be for my setup. I will be using it as rear channel and in case of music listening as an extra pair of speakers.
swestland:No, as far as my research goes you only need a core for the initial setup, after this you can remove it in case you will be only using it from your BV. If you want to use it standalone then you will need the core to stream music to it. In case of connection to a BV you directly connect the Shape's amp to the BV with powerlink. But you can't do the 'band on the wall effect' though without a core as far as I know. But I'm not looking for that as it's only a small shape setup so I think the band on the wall effect isn't something that will be for my setup. I will be using it as rear channel and in case of music listening as an extra pair of speakers.
Quick update, the Shape has been installed on my rear wall. The dealer made a small hole in the wall and could get power from the socks beneath, so no cables visible. They also pull the Powerlink cable though one of the empty wiring tubes (how do they call this in proper English?).
To be honest I didn't expect the speakers to be sounding this good, I played around between band on the wall and stereo and my consensus is that stereo gives me the best sound. I have 4 speakers and 1 amp. The tiles are a bit bigger than expected so when my wife came home she was a bit surprised as she thought it was a much smaller system :P But hey, can't remove it anymore from the wall :D
It has a nice bass punch, but when volume gets cranked up it misses on a bigger bass feeling overall for which you will need a sub. But on normal playing volume there is enough bass and a sub is really not required. I don't think you can add a sub to a shape installation on its own, it will require a Beovision for bass management. My beovision will come first week of feb. I'm happy I can enjoy the christmas dinner music through the shape.
swestland:empty wiring tubes (how do they call this in proper English?).
Conduit.
Great setup - very neat!
swestland: It has a nice bass punch, but when volume gets cranked up it misses on a bigger bass feeling overall for which you will need a sub. But on normal playing volume there is enough bass and a sub is really not required. I don't think you can add a sub to a shape installation on its own, it will require a Beovision for bass management. My beovision will come first week of feb. I'm happy I can enjoy the christmas dinner music through the shape.
What a fantastic clean setup! I really like the colour of the wall that the Shape is situated on too, its interesting and different and the tile colours compliment it very well. Always enjoy seeing these thoughtful setups, which inevitably do take a lot of time and planing but well worth it for the end result. Enjoy! Simon.
To make my thread complete for future reference I add some pictures of the final setup. I also add some thoughts after living with the setup for 2 weeks and testing various speaker groups and settings.
First, I'm very happy I went this B&O route and added the Eclipse and all other stuff.
Questions which came along are, does an Eclipse need a sub? No it doesn't need a sub in essence BUT the Beolab 19 adds a whole lot of stuff to the overall sound image, for me it makes the sound just much more special and with movie you get the shakes and rattles which only a sub can do.
I also tried to turn off the BL19 and use the Shape as rear speakers. In this case the bass management uses the Shape for the lower frequencies .This works very good actually. It gives a nice clean bass, not as deep as the BL19 but more deep than the Eclipse on its own. The BL19 can get a bit punchy at times but this might has to do with its corner position as well. For now I don't have a better place for it so I will live with it.
TrueImage is a very cool processor, initially I turned off my surround speaker for watching regular TV but I found the TrueImage adds some nice surround to TV programs as well, so actually almost everything I play in 5.1 now :)