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This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022

 

Component Stereo demise

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Piaf
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Piaf Posted: Fri, Sep 27 2013 10:11 PM

The following is currently on CNN and although this is nothing we don't all know, but it was still a bit of a shock for me to read it in print. The newest generation doesn't know what they are missing and what is worse, they really don't care, which I none the less find a shame. 

(CNN) -- For many years, it was a rite of fall.

You moved into your dorm room or new apartment. You started unpacking the car. And the first thing you set up in your new place was the stereo system: receiver, turntable or CD player, tape deck and speakers.

The wires could get tangled, and sometimes you had to make shelving out of a stack of milk crates. But only when the music was playing on those handpicked CDs, mix tapes or (geezer alert!) vinyl records did you move in the rest of your stuff.

Daniel Rubio wouldn't know.

To the 23-year-old, new dorm rooms and new apartments have meant computers, iTunes, Pandora and miniature speakers.

"All I had to bring was my laptop. That's pretty much what everyone had," says Rubio, who attended Emory University in Atlanta and now works for a local marketing and communications firm. "It was actually pretty good sound. It would get the job done."

"Get the job done"? That sounds like the white flag for an era that used to be measured in woofers and tweeters, watts per channel and the size of your record collection.

Indeed, the days of the old-fashioned component stereo system are pretty much over, says Alan Penchansky, an audiophile and former columnist for the music trade publication Billboard.

"What's happened in the marketplace, the midmarket for audio has completely been obliterated," he says. "You have this high-end market that's getting smaller all the time, and then you've got the convenience market, which has taken over -- the MP3s, the Bluetooth devices, playing on laptops."

He wishes more people knew what they were missing. At its best, he says, audio reproduction has "a religious aspect."

"There's a primacy to audio," he says. "It's a form of magic."

Wires and jacks

Of course, new technology changes things all the time. When was the last time you bought a roll of film for your camera?

Still, for a long time -- and for a certain, often youthful, audience -- the stereo system was a point of pride.

Greg Milner, the author of the audio recording history "Perfecting Sound Forever," remembers the process. There were components. There were boxes of tapes and CDs. There might even be some vinyl.

It could be a pain, no question. The equipment was heavy. There were all those wires, plugs and jacks -- Line In, Line Out, Aux, Phono, CD, keeping track of the positive and negative strands of speaker wire. It was an effort just to break down and set up the stuff, never mind moving it.

Milner, for example, grew up in Hawaii, and when he went away to school in Minnesota, he had to figure out what he was going to do with his system.

Whole stores were once devoted to stereo components. That hasn\'t been the case in years.
Whole stores were once devoted to stereo components. That hasn't been the case in years.

"I remember agonizing, what do I do? I can't take my stereo," he recalls. "There was this thing that, looking back on it, took up a ridiculous amount of psychic energy."

Audiophiles vs. AM radio

However, he observes that the history of audio technology has often been one of convenience.

Even in the '50s and '60s, when stereo sound first became widespread, the audiophiles had their hi-fis -- and the younger generation listened to tinny AM radios and cheap phonographs.

Indeed, music styles had a lot to do with music consumption, he points out. Audiophiles listened to classical and jazz, music from clubs and concert halls. On a good system, you could hear every pluck of a violin pizzicato, every inflection of a jazz singer's vocal, recreated in your living room.

The kids, on the other hand, listened to cruder rock 'n' roll.

"The seeds of the decline of what it meant to own a stereo were planted way back then, because the original audiophiles were people who baby boomers' fathers and mothers," he says. "As rock 'n' roll starts to become more of a thing, a lot of that stuff is produced so it's meant to be heard on AM radios."

A Phil Spector Wall of Sound production -- in glorious mono! -- would probably have driven a hi-fi enthusiast up a wall, says Milner.

The mass market moves on

In the '70s and '80s, the twain did meet, for a time. Rock and pop music production techniques improved. At the same time, grown-up baby boomers, now working adults, invested in better audio equipment, all the better to listen to Steely Dan's "Aja."

There were whole mass-market stores devoted to audio gear -- Sound Trek, Hi-Fi Buys, Silo -- and no issue of Rolling Stone was complete without several ads for turntables, cassette decks and equalizers.

But technology marched on, and so did change. Some was for the sake of convenience: Cassettes had more hiss and less range than LPs, but were more portable -- especially when listening on your handy Walkman or boombox.

However, we also started focusing more on visuals. Penchansky traces the decline of the stereo system to the early '80s rise of the music video, which brought visuals to the fore. Suddenly, the concert hall in your living room -- or the audio imaging in your head -- was gone, replaced by surrealist pictures overwhelming the television's tiny speaker.

That branch of consumption has helped lead to the home theater.

Penchansky has nothing against HDTVs and 7.1 systems, but believes that, for the most part, it's a "sonic compromise." With a pure audio system, "There was no way that television, even today, simulates the realism of visual experience the way (good) audio can simulate an audio experience."

Sure, technology has adjusted.

New materials and processing technology have improved the sound of small and inexpensive devices, says Patrick Lavelle, president and CEO of the consumer electronics giant VOXX International, which manufactures such brands as Klipsch, Acoustic Research and Advent.

Headphones and an iPod

And there's still a consumer market for good audio, adds Geir Skaaden, an executive at the high-definition audio company DTS. The top-selling products in Apple Stores, after Apple's own devices, are headphones, he says. (DTS recently introduced technology for an immersive system called Headphone:X, intended for mobile devices.)

Still, convenience still rules. Which means it's out with the component stereo system and in with the computer.

That suits Rubio, the Emory graduate, fine. He grew up in a house with a component system but doesn't believe he's missing anything.

"All you need is a good pair of headphones and an iPod and that's pretty much it," he says.

Milner, the author, can't question his decision.

"Now, why even bother?" he asks. "If you can take your entire music collection and more in something that fits in your pocket, why would you not do that?"

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Fri, Sep 27 2013 10:28 PM

This has been a topic of discussion for years now with my audio buddies, we lament it, but recognize times have changed. In fact we've almost come full circle, we started off with big mono radios, moved thru separates, then stereo, and now with iPod docks and things like the A9 back to modern equivalents of big single point of sound like the radios of old. It's like the effort to get stereo even is not worth the bother. Maybe it's not, maybe it's just no one has heard a good audio system.

As for PCs and small speakers, I guarantee you that my laptop, a Playmaker, and say a pair of Lab 3's would stomp all over the stereo I had in college, and what I had wasn't bad (Technics table, Marantz receiver, Sansui LM speakers (the only decent speaker they ever made IMO)). And give my post college system a run for its money (Armstrong amp, Denon table, DCM Time Window speakers).

Jeff

I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus. Sad

9 LEE
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9 LEE replied on Fri, Sep 27 2013 10:50 PM

An excellent story - and thank you for posting it.

My daughter (15 years old) has an iMac 27" connected to a pair of BeoLab 3's in her bedroom - yet she still often wanders round with music playing from her iPhone instead..  Convenience - she can wander around with her iPhone playing, and doesn't really seem concerned about sound quality playing her pop songs.

She does appreciate her BeoLab 3's once she's actually sitting down and listening to her music collection - but most of the time she's tip-tapping away on her computer and music is just a background amusement whilst she's on Facebook and other chat apps.

At 15, music was everything to me. I used to buy vinyl, and getting it home and playing it would be a true experience - you felt like you really "owned" the music and it was a special thing that was yours to play.  Now, music is so accessible it's lost that special feeling. It's disposable, it's worthless - it's free if you want it. It's junk food for the ears that's there - all you can eat, for nothing.  How can you 'value' music when it comes to you in that context?

I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of the BeoWorld Membership as to where they think the NEXT step is from here..

Lee

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My son, used to my vintage music, here at home in Mexico, went to the university in DK 2 years ago, of course I gave him a BM 1900 and a pair of P 45, Bad idea, turned out to be a bother more than a blessing. Students today are traveling more than we did, and to save room rent money they often cancel their rooms, and live with family or friends in vacation times, so his vintage goes in and out of storage, in and out of dorm rooms. At the moment he is in Singapore, as exchange student, his music collection is his computer and an Ipod with a couple of fancy headphones and earplugs. He call me a vintage Geek, with a smile, and use my vintage when home.

The world goes on and changes, we have to go with it and the changes, but there will always be a few of us who still enjoy the stereo and vinyl magic.

I run a combination, with some 6000 songs in my music computer, using it when I´m to lazy to play vinyl and tapes, or when partying, but with a combination of active and passive B&O speakers. Vinyl and tapes through my vintage gear only for small groups or by myself.

The future will be a combined device that does it all, phone, music, video and computing , pocket size for outside the home, bigger for stationary use, and your music and video, stored on and transmitted over the internet, in our homes the pocket devise connects to the wireless audio video  system and can be used as a remote. Same device will be used for alarm, ventilation and light systems in the home.

All this already exist and there is only missing the means to combine it all to one standard system that works worldwide, and at the same time controls your moves and what you do, and who is going to be the big brother Laughing

 

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Sat, Sep 28 2013 3:44 AM

9 LEE:

An excellent story - and thank you for posting it.

My daughter (15 years old) has an iMac 27" connected to a pair of BeoLab 3's in her bedroom - yet she still often wanders round with music playing from her iPhone instead..  Convenience - she can wander around with her iPhone playing, and doesn't really seem concerned about sound quality playing her pop songs.

She does appreciate her BeoLab 3's once she's actually sitting down and listening to her music collection - but most of the time she's tip-tapping away on her computer and music is just a background amusement whilst she's on Facebook and other chat apps.

At 15, music was everything to me. I used to buy vinyl, and getting it home and playing it would be a true experience - you felt like you really "owned" the music and it was a special thing that was yours to play.  Now, music is so accessible it's lost that special feeling. It's disposable, it's worthless - it's free if you want it. It's junk food for the ears that's there - all you can eat, for nothing.  How can you 'value' music when it comes to you in that context?

I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of the BeoWorld Membership as to where they think the NEXT step is from here..

Lee

 

Hi Lee,

 

You are quite right; we live in a disposable age, an age of indifference, where price rules (Thank you Wal-Mart) and quality, if there is any it is an afterthought.

 

So the sound quality is tinny, it is immediate and that is what is desired today, plus with luck, it is free.

 

However I recall with pleasure when the record and department stores would let you listen to the record prior to purchase, the salesman (there were few ladies) would remember your precious selections and recommend others. They also remembered your name.

 

I tried to explain how service has deteriorated to the great kids that worked for me, but they couldn’t picture or appreciate “what was.” “And how does this apply to me?” They have a point.

 

I did however provide endless amusement with my daily use of my Sony Walkman and its cassette tapes….. I love cassette tapes, hiss and all.

 

So I consider myself the custodian of products where quality and pride in manufacture meant something.

 

In the words of Frederick Henry Royce, “There is nothing than can not be made less well.” At least today’s technology is convenient.

 

Jeff

 

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Chris Townsend
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As much as i enjoyed unboxing everything which included the smell of glue and polystyrene! if you would have showed me an iPad, with its access to 24,000,000 song and thousands of radios stations on demand, i would have happily never poorly rewired my bedroom ever again.

I still love the dot matrix messages that you still even get on a Beovision 7.

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Piaf
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Piaf replied on Sat, Sep 28 2013 10:55 PM

Hi Chris,

 

While I couldn’t agree with you more that moving a stereo system is a royal pain, but with a BeoCenter it really isn’t all that terrible…. one BIG unit and two speakers.

 

Now moving my McIntosh system is another matter as the amplifier alone weighs over 100 pounds and with the MI-3 Performance Indicator everything is wired together in such a horrendously complex way that it takes a couple of hours just to wire it up, let alone move the beast.

 

However my point is the work involved is worth the quality sound that these systems produce. People are trading quality for expediency and that is everyone’s right….. but for me the effort is worth the sheer enjoyment of an excellent system.

 

It wasn’t all that long ago that an audiophile friend of mine, Steve asked to see my much talked about stereo systems. Steve came over with his own records and I first showed him my Beomaster 4500/Beogram 8000 and impressed him thoroughly.

 

I then sat him down in the living room, let him get really comfortable and played his records on the Beogram 4000/McIntosh 2255…… with the Linn Isobaric and McIntosh ML-2 speakers. Steve closed his eyes and said, “It sounds like I am actually there.” He then called me from home saying, “Thank you very much, my system is crap.”

 

It wasn’t my intention to upset him, but I WAS happy when he purchased a Beomaster 1900. Yes - thumbs up

 

You know my co-workers would agree with you that having an iPad is all you need. They never had a fine quality stereo, so they don’t miss it and they love the selection of available music which they can download. The quality isn’t there and they absolutely don’t care and this is what I find regrettable.

 

Quoting Frederick Henry Royce once again, “The best is the enemy of the good.”

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Chris Townsend
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I think the download market will change to adapt to those who want the expediency of that format, but of a sufficient quality to satisfy those of us who demand a better quality. I see Sony are bringing out a new Walkman costing £400, and it is purely aimed at those wanting the best quality downloads for listening on the move. Just what Sony used to do so well before their plastic cheap era.

I'm listening to Mumford and sons, the road to red rocks live in Colorado on Spotify. I'm using a mini IPad and a pair of H6 earphones. With my mother in law staying with us and 3 like boys followed by an 8 week old black lab, the chances of getting a free room free of intrusions is nil. Still miss the boxes of polystyrene though!!!!

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This

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2013/09/sony-nw-f880-and-nw-zx1-walkman-announced/

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Mark
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Mark replied on Sat, Oct 12 2013 6:56 PM

When I was that age I never had a component system but a hand me down music centre from my parents and a small transistor radio.

I later saved up for a tape player that I could then record off said radio and only when I had a real job did I venture into component systems of quality. I've lived through the Sony Walkman age, dabbled with the Minidisc era and was first  in my circles to buy the early Sony MP3 portable systems.

Yes the iPhone has its place, like the Walkman, like the transistor radio, reel to reel player.... and although I live in the iCloud and can take my music collection around the world I still own a component system and get e-mail once a week advertising a huge list of Vinyl re-releases.

 

 

 

 

 

we tend to forget there is more to design than designing.

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Sat, Oct 12 2013 9:03 PM

As a kid I was a chronic saver. I’d get money for holidays and my birthdays and never spent it, as it all went into the bank.

 

At age 20 I took the bulk of my “life’s savings” and purchased a McIntosh component system, which I still have today.

 

If I were to amortize what I spent over my lifetime the McIntosh stereo was far and away the BEST investment I have EVER made! Roughly speaking costing about $11.41 a month.

 

Better still as I purchased a McIntosh (sorry all my B&O buddies) it is still worth what I paid for it, actually slightly more on eBay.

 

When I cashed in my savings my father was appalled, but in hindsight he’d have to say I made an solid investment. Yes - thumbs up

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

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Peter replied on Sun, Oct 13 2013 11:25 AM

Listening in the kitchen at present to Neil Diamond 'Hot August Night' via my Logitech iPod deck - and it sounds fantastic! I have compared this tatty piece of plastic to a number of good systems and it is brilliant! Lots of detail and warm as well. If I was a student on a limited budget, I would look no further. Certainly beats a number of my old B&O systems into the dust. I think it is a fluke mind you - I have heard far more expensive docks and others by the same company and they are all rubbish!  Nice two way speakers, useless touch interface and cheap non working plastic remote. Best £100 I have ever spent! You can't get it anymore but this is what it is!

Peter

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chartz replied on Sun, Oct 13 2013 3:45 PM

Mmm...

It will depend on what our priorities and interests are actually I guess.

The sheer pleasure of collecting equipment is one thing. I really use what I have, according to my mood. 

But I know I could surely get better sound value if I sold everything that I have gathered and bought a pair of A5 for instance, or anything else for that matter.

I get a kick listening to stuff I have repaired, even if I'm well aware that I could get a lot more...

When not at home, I listen to my old Delco radio/CD in my equally old Omega tractor and I get as much pleasure, although the sound is not that good at all!

I also use the odd iPhone with Etymotic ER-6 in-ears when I travel by train, and this plays my beloved music too. But this will never replace my stereo of course.

Now my children (all over 18, how time flies!) - no matter how hard I tried - are happy listening to MP3 files on their mobiles or laptops and they require nothing more. At 15, my only purpose in life was how I could improve my hi-fi, and buying more LPs of course. 

Anyway, there will always be a niche market for high quality audio. MacDonald's vs cuisine... Who wins?Unsure

 

Jacques

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Rich replied on Sun, Oct 13 2013 5:34 PM

I have read that "hi fi" was invented in the first place to recreate in the home the experience of the live performance at a concert venue.  I imagine the emphasis here is on classical music and perhaps jazz, but not an amplified rock and roll concert.  Along the way us Zeppelin, Floyd and Stones lovers wanted to hear our IV, Dark Side and Exile records as best as we could so we jumped on the hi fi bandwagon, too.

Perhaps today the younger set just wants to download the song they just heard on The Voice and listen again or maybe share it with a friend.  An iPod/iPhone and some ear buds will do.

I for one think in my lifetime I will always have new cartridges to buy for my turntables, but maybe the supply of NOS blank cassettes will dry up.  I don't know if my daughters will want my equipment after I pass or not.  I hope so.


Piaf
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Piaf replied on Sun, Oct 13 2013 5:43 PM

Peter and Jacques,

 

It all comes down to “we like what we like,” and for our own reasons.

 

At the core of this hobby, for lack of a better word (I wanted to avoid obsession) is collecting. We are all collectors.

 

Then there is the pleasure that Jacques spoke of, listening to something that you have repaired. What this really is, is we are fighting back at the progressive ravages of time…. “Rage, rage at the dying of the light.” There is a pleasure in this and for whatever reasons “pushes our buttons.”

 

Like Jacques, I use all my systems that function regularly depending on my mood. Each system is different and has different strengths/weaknesses.

 

Just yesterday I decided to compile the date of manufacture and therefore ages of all my equipment and was stunned to see the average age is about 35 years old. To put that into perspective had someone showed me their audio equipment in the sixties of a similar vintage when I first became interested in stereos that equipment would have come from the mid thirties. OMG, I feel OLD!

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 4500, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000, Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

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