ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
At the moment on Ebay US I see slaughtered BC 2200, BC 9000 and BG 1800 parts for sale, a pity.
I bought the tonearm from the BG 1800, just to have it, but it seams to be the trend today, if you dont reach the price you want, slaughter it.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
That's a great pity, lots of items will disappear for good if this continues
Particularly from the US at the moment - nearly everything is being parted out at the moment. For some of us it can be a blessing to obtain difficult to find parts but I'd rather see them restored rather than butchered.
Dave.
I also feel bad everytime I hear about a scrapped old B&O but it may not all be as bad as it looks;I have been listing some parts myself recently (as Dave and others will already know). They were primarily frommachines that were deemed too far gone and therefore scrapped (or destined for scrapping and already harvested offsome parts) many years ago when they were still plentyful.So the parts I listed were excess from cleaning out in the dungeons rather than from recently scrapped machines.
However, if we are speaking about units that were broken up deliberately for selling as parts, that's a differentstory and I have a feeling that it's a kind of "american way" that we are not used to seeing where I come from.Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, just different.
I have also found the odd B&O part on Ebay myself.
Martin
Yesterday I took my faulty BV3 to the local recycling centre after it developed a processor (and possibly tube) fault that was not worth investigating. I made sure that I removed the speakers (woofers and tweeters) plus the Surround board and STB-C first - this made me fell much better about my 'loss'!
Its nice to, once in a while, find spares, but the slaughter has been worse over here the last 6 month, if the seller dont reach his sale price, he slaughter it and sell for parts, also some stupid abbreviation are there, like, Beocenter 7000, no cartridge (normal), no record platter, no belt, and then you find the platter, belt and cartridge in a separate sale, or a BG 1700, no dust cover, and dust cover sold alone. Some of these items have been taken apart of people who knows what they are doing, perfect descriptions of the parts, sometimes even with part number, and for which units/models they can be used. If they are that knowledgeable why not repair and sell as a repaired and perfectly working unit.
It just hurts me seeing this and as mentioned it has gotten worse the last 6 months.
So the "American Way" is to take old B&O and break it apart and make a market in parts rather than renovate wholes?
This morning I decided to challenge that assumption and took a peek at US Ebay to see what was actually there. Found a very few things that would interest hobbyists among the approximately 800 items for sale. First off, The vast majority of old parts were cartridges in varying states from new to rebuilt, and too many to count, so that shouldn't count. Of the breaker parts, it looked like about 25 new and rebuilt PCBs (quit counting) that are from companies that are obviously in that business. Some of these were not US sellers. There were a few BeoCenter 2 parts, but I can't imagine them being rare at all, and really doubt there are parts mules for them. Only 3 sets of drivers for sale, and 4 mechanical pieces from old BeoSounds. There was 1 trim piece for a 9500. That's it for the American Way. All the rest were, in theory, functioning units or new product.
Rather than the worldview of American consumerism based on the plethora of B&O breaker parts, perhaps it's actually the opposite, and overall dearth of old products and parts is a result of the lack of interest for vintage Bang & Olufsen, outside of turntables. And, of course, that would be because vinyl is making a comeback.
Sad, if the slaughter is done for the wrong reasons, which would be if a machine is beyond reasonble level of renovation....we will never know ? I have sacrified 2 BM900, that were in , what I considered beyound not reasonable level , to recover functionality and shape of 12 other BM900s.Still working on this task
My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.
There seems to be a lack of good repairers in the states. Some areas worse than others.I get loads of requests for repairs, also from the US, almost daily, and many owners are morethan willing to ship across the water for repairs but it's still expensive (and I only have so much time).
Maybe this is one reason.
I believe there is a general lack of repaiments shops for vintage B&OI have talked to two shops in Stockholm, one is not willing to take his hands on old B&O stuff, the other one said..."Hmmm old B&O ? complicated" I believe there arnt many places either here in Sweden that commercially offers this ´vintage B&O service
Dillen: There seems to be a lack of good repairers in the states. Some areas worse than others.I get loads of requests for repairs, also from the US, almost daily, and many owners are morethan willing to ship across the water for repairs but it's still expensive (and I only have so much time). Maybe this is one reason. Martin
I think you state more the case: those few old ones in the US are probably going in the bin, instead of to the recycler. In my business I see a few old A/V machines from time to time. Usually tell them you can get them running nicely if you can find a nice repair technician, but if they have to look perfect there is going to be a problem.
I agree. But I must confess that's how I got my impossible-to-find Beogram 4000 pulley... When it's there waiting for you, you grab it.
Jacques
chartz: I agree. But I must confess that's how I got my impossible-to-find Beogram 4000 pulley... When it's there waiting for you, you grab it.
Call me crazy (or just someone immersed in the 'American Way'), but I view it as a wise business decision that's also 'green' in the sense that it's recycling valuable parts instead of merely disposing of a dead carcass. Aren't these parts bringing to life another potential throwaway? With regard to it being a wise business decision, what's a broken Beogram 1800 (sans cartridge) worth? Around $25? That's what Soren paid for the tone arm alone. He gets a valuable part that's unavailable elsewhere and the seller makes $$. It's win-win. I see no evidence here that a working BG 1800 was broken up to sell as parts.
MediaBobNY: chartz: I agree. But I must confess that's how I got my impossible-to-find Beogram 4000 pulley... When it's there waiting for you, you grab it. Call me crazy (or just someone immersed in the 'American Way'), but I view it as a wise business decision that's also 'green' in the sense that it's recycling valuable parts instead of merely disposing of a dead carcass. Aren't these parts bringing to life another potential throwaway? With regard to it being a wise business decision, what's a broken Beogram 1800 (sans cartridge) worth? Around $25? That's what Soren paid for the tone arm alone. He gets a valuable part that's unavailable elsewhere and the seller makes $. It's win-win. I see no evidence here that a working BG 1800 was broken up to sell as parts.
Call me crazy (or just someone immersed in the 'American Way'), but I view it as a wise business decision that's also 'green' in the sense that it's recycling valuable parts instead of merely disposing of a dead carcass. Aren't these parts bringing to life another potential throwaway? With regard to it being a wise business decision, what's a broken Beogram 1800 (sans cartridge) worth? Around $25? That's what Soren paid for the tone arm alone. He gets a valuable part that's unavailable elsewhere and the seller makes $. It's win-win. I see no evidence here that a working BG 1800 was broken up to sell as parts.
I cant argue your point Bob, its a good business decision to sell this way, but my point is that it has gotten more the last 6 months or so. The tonearm I bought, not because I need it, but because I know someone will some day USD 24.99 shipping 11.25. And yes, its nice to be able to find parts
Some time in the future, I will have to do a major cleanup in the dungeons.I have many parts sorted neatly in boxes, some marked, others not, and I have boxes with a little of this and a little of that,some of which I haven't touched since the late 1970s.Furthermore, I have a number of units that are all parted out to some extent, none of which would be fitfor restoration, even if combined.They were deemed out decades ago and many parts were harvested over the years to complete repairs to other units sosome are now missing a few parts where others have very little left.I don't know the exact number of units I have of this kind but the figure is in the hundreds. Many parts from these"skeletons and ghosts" are surplus to my own needs and will surely be sold on the net when I get the time to go throughthe lot.I can't throw anything out when I know that parts are needed elsewhere - the feeling of helping to save a unit elsewhere onthe globe can't be described - but it all takes time to do and from an economical point of view it would also make senseto sell as much and throw out as little as possible.My eventual listing of these parts should not cause bad feelings anywhere, I hope.
The immense lack of good repairers is a sad story. And I do know that this is not just a problem in the US, it'smore or less worldwide.We've talked about it before; Could we make a list, a forum thread or a FAQ or something else with contact informationfor repairers ? There ARE some good ones out there. I know from email contacts, Ebay questions, parts requests etc..Some are registered business (prof.) repairshops, some even authorized B&O ones but there are also quite afew "kitchentable"-DIY'ers that are quite skilled and knowledgable when it comes to the older things.Maybe we could urge some of them to step forward, maybe even stating their level of skill and/or pointing outtheir preferred jobs.
few days ago I bought a pair of Beolab Penta for peanuts in mint condition.....The gentleman advised the speakers as : 1 fully working, one for parts only. He told me that he called the service center in Montreal who said the speaker is not repairable and better scrap it!
Now , both speakers are working. Turn out that the bad speaker has a bad fuse! Shame for the B&O technician in Montreal !!! !!!!!!!!!!!!
Indeed one NOT to include in the list.And haven't we heard that song before ?Is their business running THAT good that they can afford to reject repairs like this ? Apparently, they didn't even look at it.
A list of repairers has been discussed before, but left by the discussion, I would appreciate a list containing professionals with a link to the web site, maybe a small fee could be sourced from these. And of course these will have to have been recommended from members who have gotten good repairs done there. Another list of members willing to make repairs on a private basis, member to member.
Rich and I at some point also discussed about making a spare part stock someplace over here, but better maybe a list where each member tells what he or she has in stock for sale or exchange.
all this kind of list or archives should be available for silver or gold members only, this to make paying memberships even more attractive and give some air to Lee.
I am willing to put in some hours to run and activate lists, or a moderator could be assigned to it.
Good idea!
I also have requests from all over the world, some of which I have referred to other tech members in the customer's local area. And other members have referred work to me.
Of course, shipping costs are a big factor, and sometimes prohibitive.
Usually, I ask the customer to have a local tech remove certain PCB's and just send me those PCB's for overhaul. Cheaper shipping, and less chance for damage. Then his local tech can reassemble, and make any adjustments necessary under my guidance.
And I have also pulled apart non-repairable units, and sold off the parts - sometimes it's the better solution. There are also units which have very low resale value (not worth the repair cost - the market decides that, not us), and their parts are usable in other more valuable units - so why not?
Menahem
I reckon we are just going to see more and more of this. More people are finding time to try out diy or repair job, with sites like Instructables turning up, and less people wanting the expense of single life items, its a trend that will continue.Atleast people are learning new things!
Dillen: Indeed one NOT to include in the list.And haven't we heard that song before ?Is their business running THAT good that they can afford to reject repairs like this ? Apparently, they didn't even look at it. Martin
It's sadly common here in this part of the world. Often, regarding things like BC9500 glass reglues (not to even speak of sourcing of the glass ITSELF) I hear the authorized dealer say "we will do things like that but only for our best long time customers". In other words, don't approach them if you need help with your older B&O gear and are visiting them for the first time as your B&O business isn't worth the trouble.
I believe Atlantic Systems (I think that's their name, it's been a while) may be the only really dependable source for repairs of these old things here Stateside.
When i was at the B&O shop in Houston, I was also told of a repair guy in Austin who is apparently great with B&O. I need to investigate this further, as if I can't find a good reliable source for repairs before my older gear starts to need serious capacitor replacements, woofer refoams and such, I'll probably have to divest myself of some of it as I don't have the time or skill to keep it all in the beautiful shape its in right *now*.
Søren Mexico:A list of repairers has been discussed before
Also a list of repairer/shops to a stay away from! A "Black list" would be good.
//Bo.A long list...
Playdrv4me:When i was at the B&O shop in Houston, I was also told of a repair guy in Austin who is apparently great with B&O
Anthony Garza, a.k.a. 'Beomuse'? I think he was in Lubbock, not Austin. Anyway, he dropped out of sight years ago.
MediaBobNY: Playdrv4me:When i was at the B&O shop in Houston, I was also told of a repair guy in Austin who is apparently great with B&O Anthony Garza, a.k.a. 'Beomuse'? I think he was in Lubbock, not Austin. Anyway, he dropped out of sight years ago.
No, a guy I had not heard of before named "Mal" in Austin. I have the card from that B&O shop somewhere, I need to find it again.