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The motor axel is not stuck , I can twist it manually around smoothly, but starting it, the axel doesnt spin, and the motor gets incredible hot.
Dead motor ?, de-assembling motor ?
Any tips ?
Christian
My re-capped M75 are my precious diamonds.
Hmmm, what is turning "smooth", relative ?Read some old post in archived forum, that referd to some lese post I didnt find about relubing the 1200 motor.Anyway, took it apart, so what to lubricate here ??
As I see it you will have to pull off the plastic cap, under there there must be a bearing, and you will have to get the rotor out, the drive (pulley) is probably beneath, and below the rotor there must be a bearing too. This motor is different from my 1202 motor.
Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.
It's probably not rotating shaft in bearing but bearing in bearing housing.It needs a complete overhaul.
Martin
Show us pics from the rotor, bearings and bushings when you have it all out.
Thanks Søren and MartinI understand the electromagnetic princips of a motor, but this is the first time in my life I open an electric motor.This is how it look after removing the plastic cap.Where do I go from here ?I will gladly show pictures, but where do I find the bearings and bushings ??
I ´m dealing with exact same problem but has perhaps come some hours longer. Will the points I indicated with red on the picture be soldered or will they be fitted in some other way?
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http://tinyurl.com/qj9cjsf
Christian,
The bearing is the apprx 10mm diameter bronze part that still sits on the chromed motor shaft.It may have seized solid in the old, dried out lubricants.Losen with the aid of a little acetone.
Christian Christensen:Where do I go from here ?
You will have dismantle the rotor, to get to the other bearing, probably take out the whole base plate and then pull off the the wheel or pulley off the rotor shaft, and then pull out the rotor.
And as Martin mention clean thoroughly with acetone, polish the shafts with very fine abrasive paper or green 3M hand pad, the bearings I clean with acetone inside, and then roll a very fine (400 grain) paper around a small screw driver and rotate it inside the bearing, and then again clean with acetone, this until the bearing is totally clean, Test on the shaft, that the bearing rotate free, if not, sand and clean again. Assembling lubricate with sewing m/c oil or Liquid Bearings.
Thanks again Martin and SørenYes :) Acetone made me get the bronze bearing of.I can see green..oxide ?And why is some of the kogs of the rotor damaged ?I can see that tamtapir has managed to get the rotor off.How ?, cant see what to do.
Christian Christensen:I can see that tamtapir has managed to get the rotor off.How ?, cant see what to do.
Loosen and take off the nuts, red arrows, lift off the whole plate. The springs will make it come off with pressure. You can now get to the other side, note the placement of the nylon spacers below the plate on the fastening pins.
The two protruding tabs are not damaged. They are ground off to balance the rotor.
ThanksGot the rotor mechnism off, realize that belt needs to be replaced as I see rubber mess.So where to best order this ? I have found this place.*link removed*any comment ?, do you have Martin ? or any other suggestions ?Now...back to mechanism,,
EDIT by Dillen
This is my phase now.I have some cleaning to do.But what to do with the rotor now ?
Is the axel of the rotor supposed glide individually from the rotor ?...a bearing inside there, between axel and rotor ?Trying to turn the axel with my fingers it is seized.
The shaft is fixed to the rotor, but below the drive cone there is a bearing, the drive cone is normally pressed on the shaft, but check for small screws holding it. For belt try Axel. got mine from him. Works OK.
Now is a good time to dissemble the rest of the drive mechanism, there will be a lot of old hard grease in there
I've removed the link in your previous post. I have seen too many faulty Beograms due to belts of this type.And no, I don't have this belt but I suggest you ask Frede (forum member Classic). He had this belt reproduced some time ago if I'm not mistaken.
BTW, it's not unusual to find a little rubber debris. It's not a definite sign that the belt needs replacing and the debriscould potentially be from a previously fitted belt.
Thanks Martin.
I dont mind you remving the link, I know your good intension :)
But for my understanding process, what have you seen a non-orginal betls cause on beograms of this type ?
C
The problem is the belts elasticity.The belt needs to have a firm grip of the idler wheel, which relies solely on the belts tension to transfer torque from themotor pulley. But at the same time, the belt needs to allow for effortless and easy speed switching, which takesplace by swinging the idler wheel away from one section of the motor pulley - stretching the belt - and backonto another section (with a different diameter).The idler wheel swings well clear off the motor pulley, some 10-15mm, which is a considerable distance, requiringunusual belt properties.Most belts sold as a "guaranteed fit" obviously hasn't been tested by the supplier - or only tested for diameter.They will work fine as long as you don't try to change speed because they won't easily stretch the required amount.Well, some will if forced - but they will never come back to the initial diameter again.I've even seen round rubber O-rings (sewer sealing rings or whatever?) used for belts!
I have had countless requests for the round (cross section) belts but so far I had no luck in finding a capable producer.If I understand correctly, Frede had more succes.
The belt you linked to was 10 euros or so.When they were available from B&O, they were in the 50-60 euro range...
I feel like a stupid kid with all my questions.
How do I get hold of a forum member here. I have clicked around for a functionality called something "member search", but with no sucsess
You can find Frede here:
http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/members/classic/default.aspx
Dirty axel of the drive machanism dissambled , cleaned and oiled, easy, rest of the drive mechanism looked well and worked well addade just alittle bit oil there.But back to the rotor.I dissambled the drive cone with help of aceton in the search of the holy bearing I have been looking for all the timeNo bearing there.Cleaned and oiled....ahhhhhh damn.Now the drive cone slide so smooth that it doesnt stay on.What to do ?
A bearing can be a roller bearing or a bronze bushing, in your case there must be 2 Bearings (Bronze bushings) 1 at each end of the rotor.
That's not the drive pulley, it's a bearing...
Since I do not find any blueprint shoving the motor in any of the service manuals, I have in av naive style, made a sketch of how the splitters hang together in BG 1800 (and in BG 1000). Observe that over the rotor will the stator be mounted before ”the lagerhus” is fastened with two capnuts.
Thanks for the useful drawing
By the way, has anybody found a solution for a noisy, hardened rubber idler wheel? Acetone dripping silences it for some time (a few days) then noise comes back. It has no dents.
I was lucky enough with my belt from Germany, it works 33-45 back and forth. I replace the platter with 4 LR20 batteries to put it in place and observe it work.
Jacques
Thanks everybody.Mechanics is not my quality, in phase of learning.When I was 15 years old, I built speakers, while my friends repaired moped enigines. My blueprint was not as good as Tamtapir, I put deails and screws in different bowls, representating different assemling processes, which I now realize was not good enough. So I need help comming back.filt fabric between bronze plate and drive mechanism ?The little white platic ring btween bronze bearing and drive cone ? ( as it sits the same ring on each side of the rotor base ) The bronze ring on the table I have forgot where to put.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9egJsXIi5jU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1grCztTbXwTHANKS ALL 3 OF YOU FOR PATIENCE.the rest is for tomorrow, !!!
got hold of Frede he never managed to get new belts.
then Axel maybe...
but I will re assemble and try with the old belt first
tamtapir: /***
Perfect instruction D1ck
Yes, try with the old belt first.
If the old belt fails, unless it has completely gone, a temporary solution could be to cut out 10mm or sofrom the length of the old belt and then glue the ends back together.Sounds like a drastic method but it actually works better for testing purposes than you'd think.If you cut at an angle, the glue will have a greater surface to bind to.Then go out a find a decent belt.
Thanks Martin,I still have assembling problems to solveSeems a bit tricky to get the back bracket of the enigine fit and lock and make motor spin smoothly.I have made some error with drive mechanism, as it doesnt walk onto drive cone, while operating the the motor start switch.Learn, learn, learn...:)
Thanks again so much for help :)Another 1200 saved for the futurehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h53oKavhAx4https
Good job Christian, clean, white and good looking
It needs cleaning and polishing now after the repair dirty finger prints everywhere...but it is in very very good shape
Christian Christensen: Thanks Martin. I dont mind you remving the link, I know your good intension :) But for my understanding process, what have you seen a non-orginal betls cause on beograms of this type ? C
Still, it would be intresting to know where NOT to turn... I also have to find a belt.
blah-blah and photographs as needed
chartz: By the way, has anybody found a solution for a noisy, hardened rubber idler wheel?
By the way, has anybody found a solution for a noisy, hardened rubber idler wheel?
I have had some success through letting the wheel swim in 20% solution of Propylene glycol, aka skin cream.
The wheel bathed in three or four days and I felt a significant difference in hardness in comparison with a reference wheel. How long-lasting the effect may be I don’t know yet, and I have not had tried the wheel in any turntable either but will do so shortly.
OravaI asume, priority one, as Martin suggested, to cut out 10mm and glue the belt back together.
2 , Somebody here mentioned that Axels belt works okey.In my case the old belt works fine, I asumed it was bad considering how it felt, but as Martin mentioned, it has a special elacity.comments from anyone ?C
I have been working with Terry Witt at Terry's Rubber Rollers (Michigan USA) for some years now, and am very pleased with his workmanship.
He charges $35 to rebuild the BG1200-series idler wheel - the result is absolute silence. I have specified 57mm diameter, and 2mm thickness.
Menahem