ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Geoff Martin is such a funny and great guy. This must be the best way to start the weekend for us B&O enthusiasts!
Bang & Olufsen Beovision Avant sound from recordere on Vimeo.and this video about the picture engine is also interesting (note the osd-design on the BV11 all you BV11 owners, you will get the same look!) http://vimeo.com/93747532
Beolab 50, Beolab 8000 x 2, Beolab 4000 x 2, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 9000, BeoSound Century, BeoLit 15, BeoPlay A1, BeoPlay P2, BeoPlay H9 3rd Gen, BeoPlay H6, EarSet 3i, BeoVision Eclipse Gen 2 55", BeoPlay V1-40, BeoCom 6000 and so much else :)
Copy/paste of my comments from another thread...
I have just returned from my local B&O dealer and seen the Avant in person. Although it wasn't yet connected to standard def or hi def sources - in fact only running a 4K demo - I can already see that this is a triumph for B&O and I am fairly certain I will be buying it. I am just holding on for a short while until reviews are out to see how the specs and picture quality are rated. I hope they will be as good as the BV11 if not better. I did notice the panel is 120hz not 200hz refresh rate which is interesting.
The 'magic' that I have been waiting for is here, and the moving speakers are brilliantly engineered, as is the rest of the TV. The new remote is fabulous and the price point is OK. If it was £5,9995 including your choice of stand/bracket I think this would have been perfect. With stand options around £1,200 though I think this pushes the price point up to former TV prices so its not that all that much cheaper in my opinion. Not really.
All in all, this is triumph for B&O and I congratulate the designers, engineers and management at the company for releasing this next generation TV that is certainly worthy to take its predecessor's title. So pleased for B&O and I really want the company to build on this platform and go from strength to strength. It is a brand I have always loved and the magic continues in 2014.
The new speakers (BL 20s) look superb too but since I am not looking to buy these I didn't really demo on this occasion.
In short, nothing negative to say. Like the former Avant, I believe this TV offers the customer value for money in terms of longevity, and will not be a TV that has (or needs) constant revisions to stay up to date. I say this within reason of course because technology does evolve, and at a considerable rate, but given the circumstances this is a great effort for those who want to buy a TV to keep for 5-10 years in my opinion. All the magic is their with the speakers, stands and curtains all adding to the excitement of B&O ownership every time we switch on and off the TV. Personally I love the metallic grille of the centre speaker and think they really got it right this time. Pure B&O brilliance at its best. This is the TV for me and I will be using it with the table stand. Looking forward to more detailed reviews around picture quality in the coming weeks.
Simon.
B&O products are V1-32, BS2, H95, E8 and an Essence remote.11-46 now replaced with Sony A90J 65”, Sony HT-A9, Sony UBP-X800M2 and Sony SRS-NS7.
If i was buying one I would be going for the table stand to.
Beoplay A2
The_Beonic_Man: Copy/paste of my comments from another thread... I have just returned from my local B&O dealer and seen the Avant in person. Although it wasn't yet connected to standard def or hi def sources - in fact only running a 4K demo - I can already see that this is a triumph for B&O and I am fairly certain I will be buying it.
I have just returned from my local B&O dealer and seen the Avant in person. Although it wasn't yet connected to standard def or hi def sources - in fact only running a 4K demo - I can already see that this is a triumph for B&O and I am fairly certain I will be buying it.
But you've only just got the BV7-55, which you then said was too big. Why would you sell the recently bought 7-55, losing money in the process, to get the same size TV? It offers little over the 7-55. Audio isn't as good, for sure.
There's a rather weird thing with blokes and tech where part of the brain appears to lose all sense of rationality when a new gadget is made available and we talk ourselves in to think our lives will be so much more enriched by owning it!
After seeing the Avant today, sure it's a superb TV, but that's all it is. Movies don't get any better on it. I watched three films on the way to Barbados two weeks ago and I am in no rush to watch them again on the BV11-46, just because I can. The movie is the same as the one I watched two weeks ago, on the small screen.
moxxey:But you've only just got the BV7-55, which you then said was too big. Why would you sell the recently bought 7-55, losing money in the process, to get the same size TV? It offers little over the 7-55. Audio isn't as good, for sure. There's a rather weird thing with blokes and tech where part of the brain appears to lose all sense of rationality when a new gadget is made available and we talk ourselves in to think our lives will be so much more enriched by owning it! After seeing the Avant today, sure it's a superb TV, but that's all it is. Movies don't get any better on it. I watched three films on the way to Barbados two weeks ago and I am in no rush to watch them again on the BV11-46, just because I can. The movie is the same as the one I watched two weeks ago, on the small screen.
moxxey: The_Beonic_Man: Copy/paste of my comments from another thread... I have just returned from my local B&O dealer and seen the Avant in person. Although it wasn't yet connected to standard def or hi def sources - in fact only running a 4K demo - I can already see that this is a triumph for B&O and I am fairly certain I will be buying it. But you've only just got the BV7-55, which you then said was too big. Why would you sell the recently bought 7-55, losing money in the process, to get the same size TV? It offers little over the 7-55. Audio isn't as good, for sure. There's a rather weird thing with blokes and tech where part of the brain appears to lose all sense of rationality when a new gadget is made available and we talk ourselves in to think our lives will be so much more enriched by owning it! After seeing the Avant today, sure it's a superb TV, but that's all it is. Movies don't get any better on it. I watched three films on the way to Barbados two weeks ago and I am in no rush to watch them again on the BV11-46, just because I can. The movie is the same as the one I watched two weeks ago, on the small screen.
Hi Chris,
Actually I pulled out from the 7-55 at the very last minute when I heard about the new Avant being just around the corner. The 'techy blokey' side got the better of me, as you say, and I just had to hold on to see what it was all about. It wasn't an easy decision because the deal I was offered on the 7-55 was incredible to be honest, but it was the Mark I which I was a little uneasy about in the first place, and of course the size and domination of it in the room was ridiculous really considering my living space in a 2 bedroom flat. I was getting far too carried away with the good deal being offered and only at the last minute started thinking more practically. Easily done with B&O and decisions are never easy for me as there are times when I can be practical but equally times when heart rules over head and I buy impulsively.
Popping over to Cribbs tomorrow because Terry has the TV set up for all sources including BluRay. I'll be there from about 1pm onwards if you fancy coming over. Want to run different DVDs and BluRays through it and see how it copes with all sources. I also want to hear the speakers as they were only working on the 4K demo today.
I am rather excited at the moment as I think there are good deals to be had in both the new and second hand markets, the latter of which prices will almost certainly drop considerably in the coming weeks since the release of this new product will undoubtedly sell well in my opinion. There's someone selling a BV7 Mark 6 for £14,000 on eBay at the moment and BV7s of various sizes over the £4,000 mark. Madness! Who is going to bother now that the Avant is here and makes them all redundant with its competitive pricing? The second hand market is going to get interesting so I might keep my eye on that now and again too.
For the moment, I am waiting to see what the picture quality differences are between the Avant and the BV11 but I do intend to get a decent all round setup in place within the next few months. How about yourself? It seems the Avant is not quite capturing your imagination enough; the speaker components particularly.
Your logic is great by the way Chris, and true to form, but alas I always end up being the irrational type I am afraid, I am working on it! The really good news as far as I am concerned is that these new products have brought all the passion of the brand back for me again. The remote is fantastic and I love its shape and design etc. I will check out the BL20s properly tomorrow too. I feel these new products have been thought through very well from design to implementation and see this as a real turning point for B&O, which is great news.
Raeuber: moxxey: But you've only just got the BV7-55, which you then said was too big. Why would you sell the recently bought 7-55, losing money in the process, to get the same size TV? It offers little over the 7-55. Audio isn't as good, for sure. There's a rather weird thing with blokes and tech where part of the brain appears to lose all sense of rationality when a new gadget is made available and we talk ourselves in to think our lives will be so much more enriched by owning it! After seeing the Avant today, sure it's a superb TV, but that's all it is. Movies don't get any better on it. I watched three films on the way to Barbados two weeks ago and I am in no rush to watch them again on the BV11-46, just because I can. The movie is the same as the one I watched two weeks ago, on the small screen. If I would have no Beovision I would go for the Avant. But if you have already a BV 7-55 or 11-55 it doesn't make much sense to switch to Avant. With many external Settop boxes with harddisk you have more features than with the internal HD module and connected harddisk of the Avant. My Technisat ISIO has so many features I daily use and would miss at the Avant without Settop box. In a few years you can benefit from the 4K panel when 4K contents are available, but not at the moment. But then there will be an Avant Mk2 with OLED... Greets Räuber
moxxey: But you've only just got the BV7-55, which you then said was too big. Why would you sell the recently bought 7-55, losing money in the process, to get the same size TV? It offers little over the 7-55. Audio isn't as good, for sure. There's a rather weird thing with blokes and tech where part of the brain appears to lose all sense of rationality when a new gadget is made available and we talk ourselves in to think our lives will be so much more enriched by owning it! After seeing the Avant today, sure it's a superb TV, but that's all it is. Movies don't get any better on it. I watched three films on the way to Barbados two weeks ago and I am in no rush to watch them again on the BV11-46, just because I can. The movie is the same as the one I watched two weeks ago, on the small screen.
If I would have no Beovision I would go for the Avant. But if you have already a BV 7-55 or 11-55 it doesn't make much sense to switch to Avant. With many external Settop boxes with harddisk you have more features than with the internal HD module and connected harddisk of the Avant. My Technisat ISIO has so many features I daily use and would miss at the Avant without Settop box.
In a few years you can benefit from the 4K panel when 4K contents are available, but not at the moment. But then there will be an Avant Mk2 with OLED...
Greets
Räuber
This is the situation I am currently in. Well, I have an Avant in the interim while I am deciding. So I may well be going from Avant to Avant! I do like the BV11 a lot also but comments on the forum about various problems with it have always been the obstacle for me. I am therefore hesitant to be an early adopter with the Avant just in case the cycle continues, hence why I will wait for some reviews to surface. But when they do, and if all looks good, then that could be the time I buy.
Maab:Finally I visited my dealer and he showed me the new creation. I went to the store with the intent to buy it...but something it's refraining be from doing so. All in all I love the overall package. The automations, the looks, the quality of the workmanship is very high as usual. But I have my reservations regarding the quality of the picture itself which is the most important factor to me. Maybe because I'm used to my calibrated pioneer Kuro, but I noticed the shadows details were lacking, as well the highlight. Skin color was not memorable too. I'm intrigued. I asked a lot of questions regarding the calibration per se. Is it possible that the auto calibration system is what it is in terms of reliability and accuracy? Obviously it wasn't possible to manually tune the tv at that moment. No offense to anyone, it's just my first impression and I wanted to share it.
All in all I love the overall package.
The automations, the looks, the quality of the workmanship is very high as usual. But I have my reservations regarding the quality of the picture itself which is the most important factor to me.
Maybe because I'm used to my calibrated pioneer Kuro, but I noticed the shadows details were lacking, as well the highlight. Skin color was not memorable too. I'm intrigued.
I asked a lot of questions regarding the calibration per se. Is it possible that the auto calibration system is what it is in terms of reliability and accuracy?
Obviously it wasn't possible to manually tune the tv at that moment.
No offense to anyone, it's just my first impression and I wanted to share it.
Well, to be honest, I've yet to see any LCD panel, locally backlit or not, approach the picture and black level detail of either the Kuro panels or my VT series Panasonic plasma. While 4k is definitely being pushed, recent tests have found that things like frame rate (not refresh rate, the native frame rate of the video), black levels, and other issues matter more than number of pixels. I will have to lay eyes on one to really tell but I doubt you were mistaken. And you probably can tweak it a bit to improve it, but the native technology may well not be close to the black level and shadow detail level of a good plasma. At least that's what I've observed so far with LCD.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
If that's the best B&O can do for a new take on the Avant, all I can say, is, no wonder they're going broke.... The original Avant, looked like no other CRT TV on the market. This looks the same as any table mounted LCD/plasma except for the moving speakers, regardless of the quality of the picture (LCD still has not taken over Plasma in picture quality, look on any review site, Panasonic plasmas are always in the top 3, shame they have closed down production, many internet sites are telling people to grab one if you can get one, as none of the other formats have passed the quality of these sets.) Why could they not make it a tribute to the original Avant, floor-standing (a piece of furniture, not an LCD TV on a pole), in beautiful colours. Free standing, but square like the beovision 5, but upright (90 degrees) with the bottom frame/speakers slightly recessed. It would have stood out of the crowd. There is nothing like that on the market. This thing just looks pretty, but nothing special. The only design cues it shares with the original, is the display panel on the top right. BORING. NEXT!!!
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Chaka: If that's the best B&O can do for a new take on the Avant, all I can say, is, no wonder they're going broke.... The original Avant, looked like no other CRT TV on the market. This looks the same as any table mounted LCD/plasma except for the moving speakers, regardless of the quality of the picture (LCD still has not taken over Plasma in picture quality, look on any review site, Panasonic plasmas are always in the top 3, shame they have closed down production, many internet sites are telling people to grab one if you can get one, as none of the other formats have passed the quality of these sets.) Why could they not make it a tribute to the original Avant, floor-standing (a piece of furniture, not an LCD TV on a pole), in beautiful colours. Free standing, but square like the beovision 5, but upright (90 degrees) with the bottom frame/speakers slightly recessed. It would have stood out of the crowd. There is nothing like that on the market. This thing just looks pretty, but nothing special. The only design cues it shares with the original, is the display panel on the top right. BORING. NEXT!!!
I don't think everyone shares your opinion. I for one don't. The name Avant is a tribute to their most successful tv to date and it is not a replica. The original Avant was a marvelous piece that was heavy and boxy because it had a tube, vcr and big speakers inside it. Much of it was just air. The thought about the new Avant was to make a TV that is not "too big" for what it is. That is why the speakers hide away when you don't use it. That is why the stand moves towards you when you use it. It is a discrete TV and some people want and like that. Besides, the BV11 is a bulkier TV that more resembles what you are describing, for me the speaker grill beneath the screen and the big glass. I´d say that the BV11 is very much like the old Avant.Avant is french and means front, as in that it moves to be in front of you. I think the new Avant makes this with grace and the hidden speakers is an extra feature that makes me feel happy, just like the sliding doors of the 2000/3000 series sound systems. I have ordered it and look forward to receiving it. I love the Beovision 11 design also, and I actually have the latest of the crt-Avants in my work room.
I agree with you Michael. The new Avant has some of the magic that one expects from B&O. One gets pleasure from little delights and the speakers and stand offer this every time you turn the set on. I have always said that designing flat screen TVs to be different is an almost impossible task - the BV11 is certainly that but dominates a room, all be it not to the extent the 5 or 9 did. The Avant unfolds which is about as good as we will get until the advent of a rollable screen!
£7000 for this set is less than the old Avant DVD was selling at in 2003!!! This is a serious bargain!!
Peter
Peter:One gets pleasure from little delights and the speakers and stand offer this every time you turn the set on.
we tend to forget there is more to design than designing.
Mark: Is there any news if B&O will bring out other screen sizes in the Avant range ? I'm more into 32" to 40" range ?
Is there any news if B&O will bring out other screen sizes in the Avant range ? I'm more into 32" to 40" range ?
I think the times of modest tv's are unfortunately over. But why? I don't want some 55 inch unit that I only use rarely in my living room!
Wouter
if they bring out a 40 inch t.v (avant) then nobody wants to buy the expensive 11-40 anymore!
koning:if they bring out a 40 inch t.v (avant) then nobody wants to buy the expensive 11-40 anymore!
due to my current furniture, room design and wife, 32" is about as big as I can go, BUT I'm not a 1x TV household and want to update my kitchen, main bedroom etc.
If I go 3x 55" TV route would Lee advertise my wife ?
4k is pretty pointless on a 40" screen , then again it's only really viable on 75" plus - and with a 4k source not upscaled hd , good luck finding that
I'm sticking with my bv11 thx
Plus that grille at the front is simply hideous
The 11-40 and 11-55 will still be ongoing,also the smallest size tv for b and o will be 40" I was told...
Flappo:4k is pretty pointless on a 40" screen , then again it's only really viable on 75" plus - and with a 4k source not upscaled hd , good luck finding that I'm sticking with my bv11 thx Plus that grille at the front is simply hideous
I agree , I googled 4k source , the only one is a sony box that only works with their tv's , it downloads overnight . you can imagine the size of the movies !
Even computers don't need 4k , the mackbook pro retina is 3k and is super sharp !
I can see 4k going the way of laserdiscs and quadrophonic , a niche product.
By the time it's viable , 8k will be out and we can start all over again - yawn
Watching EuroVision on the BeoVision
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen: Watching EuroVision on the BeoVision MM
Waste of pixels.
Graham
vikinger: Millemissen: Watching EuroVision on the BeoVision MM Waste of pixels. Graham
Flappo:I agree , I googled 4k source , the only one is a sony box that only works with their tv's , it downloads overnight . you can imagine the size of the movies ! Even computers don't need 4k , the mackbook pro retina is 3k super sharp ! I can see 4k going the way of e laserdiscs and quadrophonic , a niche product. By the time it's viable , 8k will be out and we can start all over again - yawn
vlohjr1: Not slagging avant in anyway because I really like it but I can't stop thinking that whether a bv755 has a better finish than an avant especially at the back...... Still a magical tv in every respect even the mrs is beginning to be won over......
Not slagging avant in anyway because I really like it but I can't stop thinking that whether a bv755 has a better finish than an avant especially at the back......
Still a magical tv in every respect even the mrs is beginning to be won over......
I also noticed that the build quality on the Avant was not the same as my BV7-55. In the details you could see the difference. But only at the back side though.
On the other hand, it is much cheaper than the BV7-55, and I still think the BV7-55 delivers a better picture (not UHD of course), but I wonder if FullHD will be sufficient for most (all?).
The Avant is a magical TV and I really like it (except the design of the speakers though), and it has so many nice features. The new owners of the Avant will get a great TV.
And the remote just add to the magical experience, I really like this remote. And it will be my next B&O purchase. A real replacement of the Beo4 I think.
I really hope - and believe - that B&O will really get back into the market and lead again with this great TV.
beolion:I also noticed that the build quality on the Avant was not the same as my BV7-55. In the details you could see the difference. But only at the back side though. On the other hand, it is much cheaper than the BV7-55, and I still think the BV7-55 delivers a better picture (not UHD of course), but I wonder if FullHD will be sufficient for most (all?). The Avant is a magical TV and I really like it (except the design of the speakers though), and it has so many nice features. The new owners of the Avant will get a great TV. And the remote just add to the magical experience, I really like this remote. And it will be my next B&O purchase. A real replacement of the Beo4 I think. I really hope - and believe - that B&O will really get back into the market and lead again with this great TV.
vikinguk:Waste of pixels. Graham
Nice touch having a B&O TV in the introductory video for Denmark
--mika
Chris Townsend:Who's watching the Eurovision with me?
Swicthed on.
Israel came on.
Nice intro for the flag.
But big thighs ... could work at NCL kickstarting jumbos.
Next some guy came on ... and the drivel about what a hunk he was but see how sensitive he is working with wood in his workshop drove me to ...
Switch off !!!
BeoNut since '75
Raeuber: vikinguk: Waste of pixels. Graham 👍 And waste of time.
vikinguk: Waste of pixels. Graham
👍
And waste of time.
Some people are 'wasting time' watching football games ⚽
I am sure the pixels don't care.
vlohjr1:The new avant has no paintwork unlike the original one with a very smooth finish The755 like mr Townsend has I consider the best build quality as the back has a plastic film sprayed which is soft touch like the old audis had in their cars the new avant one has neither. I think the first sign of any 'cost cutting' seen in the Bv start from bv10 I think Vince
Evening all...
Congrats to Denmark for a fantastic Eurovision tonight, really enjoying it and looking like Austria may well win this!
I spent the afternoon at another B&O dealer today and had a much better look at the Avant. I was able to see a variety of sources on it including standard definition, high definition and BluRay. I bought in some DVDs with me too, some of which are a few years old and others that are recordings from the 70s and 80s. During my time looking at the Avant I was constantly distracted by the BV11-46 and BV11-55 playing content in other parts of the showroom. In terms of picture quality, at least to my eyes, it seemed that the BV11 sets had the edge over the Avant. I would say this is quite a noticeable edge too. I was amazed at the depth of colour on the BV11s and the marvellous skin tones particularly, which I thought was only possible on plasma screens. This experience today blew me away and left me confused because the first time I saw BV11s at their release I certainly didn't remember picture quality like this. The original dealer I went to must have had them set up badly because the picture is absolutely amazing and I can see now why they got 5 star reviews.
So, where does this now leave me for a new set? Who knows! The Avant is great, the BV11 is great. Both offering different designs. One offering 4k, which I am not too concerned about; the other offering spectacular picture quality especially playing HD sources. Love the look of both. What do I do?
Honestly, I really don't know now which route to take. The dealer said to buy the Avant now because the price will be going up but I am quite sure this was just a sales tactic and one actually, that was quite off-putting. Anyway...
In terms of tv, all I know at the moment is that I'll wait until reviews come out for the Avant and see what early adopters of the set say. I'll therefore make a decision in the next few months.
On a separate note, the BL20s left me speechless. What a speaker! Never heard anything as good as this in my life. If I was in the market for a pair with that kind of budget I wouldn't think twice. The bass was something to behold. I really was in awe of these amazing speakers. If you haven't yet heard them... DO.
(Michael... re your above post, when I viewed the Avant today I saw loads of reflections during the day in the showroom. I don't think its as good at dealing with them as you may think, based on my viewing experience. Not a problem for me either way as I often watch tv in a dark room, but maybe a concern for those watching during the day).
The_Beonic_Man: Evening all... Congrats to Denmark for a fantastic Eurovision tonight, really enjoying it and looking like Austria may well win this! I spent the afternoon at another B&O dealer today and had a much better look at the Avant. I was able to see a variety of sources on it including standard definition, high definition and BluRay. I bought in some DVDs with me too, some of which are a few years old and others that are recordings from the 70s and 80s. During my time looking at the Avant I was constantly distracted by the BV11-46 and BV11-55 playing content in other parts of the showroom. In terms of picture quality, at least to my eyes, it seemed that the BV11 sets had the edge over the Avant. I would say this is quite a noticeable edge too. I was amazed at the depth of colour on the BV11s and the marvellous skin tones particularly, which I thought was only possible on plasma screens. This experience today blew me away and left me confused because the first time I saw BV11s at their release I certainly didn't remember picture quality like this. The original dealer I went to must have had them set up badly because the picture is absolutely amazing and I can see now why they got 5 star reviews. So, where does this now leave me for a new set? Who knows! The Avant is great, the BV11 is great. Both offering different designs. One offering 4k, which I am not too concerned about; the other offering spectacular picture quality especially playing HD sources. Love the look of both. What do I do? Honestly, I really don't know now which route to take. The dealer said to buy the Avant now because the price will be going up but I am quite sure this was just a sales tactic and one actually, that was quite off-putting. Anyway... In terms of tv, all I know at the moment is that I'll wait until reviews come out for the Avant and see what early adopters of the set say. I'll therefore make a decision in the next few months. On a separate note, the BL20s left me speechless. What a speaker! Never heard anything as good as this in my life. If I was in the market for a pair with that kind of budget I wouldn't think twice. The bass was something to behold. I really was in awe of these amazing speakers. If you haven't yet heard them... DO. Simon. (Michael... re your above post, when I viewed the Avant today I saw loads of reflections during the day in the showroom. I don't think its as good at dealing with them as you may think, based on my viewing experience. Not a problem for me either way as I often watch tv in a dark room, but maybe a concern for those watching during the day).
Too bad to hear about the reflections. I guess it is hard to avoid them, especially during day. The BV avant has a new sensor system that the BV11 lacks, this is supposed to make the colors on the screen appear more like the light you are in. I am sure this is what made you think the BV11 looked better since it does not compensate the same way. Perhaps this is something B&O have to fine tune even more with future software updates - or it might also be up to what each and every one prefers for him/her self.
vlohjr1:Hi Michael In my previous comment in another thread had 1146 and avant side by side and saw bolt freeview hd although I say no difference in picture quality I stand corrected. the picture in the avant is much lighter and softer in tone and colour (less harsh) I would say very similar to a plasma.
In my previous comment in another thread had 1146 and avant side by side and saw bolt freeview hd although I say no difference in picture quality I stand corrected. the picture in the avant is much lighter and softer in tone and colour (less harsh) I would say very similar to a plasma.
Hi Vlohjr1 :) Ah, nice to hear. So you say you did prefer the picture of the avant over the 11? If so thats nice to hear!