ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1405416053
Does this mean that we just have to wait untill september, if we want to buy a UHD B&O tv!
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
moxxey: Michael: Reading on forums is like diagnosing sickness with google: it makes you crazy :). And remember that forums breed negativity. ie. people usually only bother saying something, when they have something to say. Satisfied people are always less likely to bother to comment. So forums can give a warped sense of (negative) perspective. On a sidenote, ran in to my dealer at lunch and he says my revised Avant came in this morning.
Michael: Reading on forums is like diagnosing sickness with google: it makes you crazy :).
Reading on forums is like diagnosing sickness with google: it makes you crazy :).
And remember that forums breed negativity. ie. people usually only bother saying something, when they have something to say. Satisfied people are always less likely to bother to comment. So forums can give a warped sense of (negative) perspective.
On a sidenote, ran in to my dealer at lunch and he says my revised Avant came in this morning.
Yepp, like me. I'm very happy with my Avant 55. Not interested to wait for mkII etc. If you shall wait for the next thing to come, you'll never buy a TV.
Daniel: Yepp, like me. I'm very happy with my Avant 55. Not interested to wait for mkII etc. If you shall wait for the next thing to come, you'll never buy a TV.
Mine is installed tomorrow. Just as a test, but I feel happier with that. Dealer is very confident I'll be happy with the Avant from the "second batch". He told me today they've already installed a couple since last Friday, with no issues so far.
BeoNut since '75
elephant:@Moxxey Given your eagle eye and high standards your dealer must be very very confident which will be good news for everyone
Given your eagle eye and high standards your dealer must be very very confident which will be good news for everyone
Cheers Elephant. It's incoming. Installation due in 30 minutes.
Decided to test it with the BL3s rather than shift the BL18s from the kitchen. Been extremely impressed with the BL18s in that room and listen to them often, particularly at a weekend. Original plan was to use the forthcoming black A9 (also due today) in the kitchen, but frankly the sound from the A9 isn't a patch on the BL18s - lacks that brightness I like.
A9 is going in the office :)
Moxxey, I really hope the installation goes well and the second batch is as expected. Good luck and fingers crossed that it meets all your requirements and lives up to the quality we all expect from B&O.
jbrown77: Moxxey, I really hope the installation goes well and the second batch is as expected. Good luck and fingers crossed that it meets all your requirements and lives up to the quality we all expect from B&O.
Cheers, thanks. Going well so far, although it's incredibly hot up here today. Still installing. Four hours so far. Nearly done.
Avant installed. Finally. Took 4.5 hours in total to dismantle the BV11, install the Avant.
First impressions, excellent. Picture quality is superb - better than I expected. Absolutely zero (initial, see below for update) issues with Sky. No motion issues.
One surprise is the difference the Oppo makes in upscaling content. Both the installer and myself were surprised by the difference. For instance, we were watching "12 Years A Slave" sent in 1080P, but upscaled by the Avant. Noticeably pixelated picture.
As soon as we switched this to upscaling via the Oppo, where the Oppo sends a 4K picture to the Avant (so no Avant upscaling required), picture quality was completely flawless!
Here's a quick and dirty install image (installer behind the TV)...
Beovision 12 65, Beovision 11 55 Mk II, Beoplay V1 40, Beosound 5 Encore, Beolab 9,beolab 18, Beolab 19, Beoplay A8, Beoplay A9
ptbb:what type of oppo do you have? i am planning to buy 85" version, and want to use oppo as a upscaller. have 103, but i am not sure if it will have enough power. maybe better will be to buy 105 D.
Yes, the 103. It's superb. Does a better job upscaling to 4K than the Avant.
Oh, after watching the new Avant for a little longer, there *is* some minor ripping/motion issues with Sky via the Avant that wasn't on the BV11. Nothing drastic, but it's noticeable. This is definitely an Avant software upscaling issue though, as it's also on Freeview HD, but not on anything that goes via the Oppo!
Looks like the Avant is missing frames or simply can't process the content quickly enough. Definitely a software issue. Relatively minor.
At the moment, the Oppo is upscaling Blu-ray movies and anything on the NAS drive. The Oppo enables you to find your NAS content and control/upscale this via the Oppo. I'm not sure it's possible to push the Sky box content via the Oppo though.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
moxxey:Avant installed. Finally. Took 4.5 hours in total to dismantle the BV11, install the Avant. First impressions, excellent. Picture quality is superb - better than I expected. Absolutely zero (initial, see below for update) issues with Sky. No motion issues. One surprise is the difference the Oppo makes in upscaling content. Both the installer and myself were surprised by the difference. For instance, we were watching "12 Years A Slave" sent in 1080P, but upscaled by the Avant. Noticeably pixelated picture. As soon as we switched this to upscaling via the Oppo, where the Oppo sends a 4K picture to the Avant (so no Avant upscaling required), picture quality was completely flawless! Here's a quick and dirty install image (installer behind the TV)...
KMA
B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.
Looking good moxxey and from i can see there's no smears or finger prints behind your screen.
Beoplay A2
markiedee: Looking good moxxey and from i can see there's no smears or finger prints behind your screen.
Cheers Chris and Mark.
No marks at all. The first thing my dealer and installer did was unpack it from the box and all three of us looked over the panel, carefully.
KMA, no idea how to push the Sky content via the Oppo and also be able to control the Sky box. Anyone?
Pleased. Picture quality exceeds my (previously low) expectations. Stand is great, no noises, either.
But....this is huge. Like having a mini-cinema setup in the room, with the BL3s and BL11 sub. Avant speaker configured as a centre. A9 in the office, 18s in the kitchen.
KMA:So, is it correct to say that in order to enjoy Avant's picture quality, an external upscaler (such as Oppo) is needed for non-4K content, and an external box supporting HEVC is needed for 4K videos/streaming (such as Netflix), and when 4K broadcasts some day begin, an external set-top box will be needed to watch them, given UHD's latest specification? IMO, this makes Avant a great monitor with good sound, but is it a good TV currently?Would a set-top box even for today's broadcast HD TV content, routed via a capable external upscaler, result in a better picture than HD TV on Avant itself?It seems I need to prepare for a lot of external players / boxes and re-routing to get the most out of Avant in its current version.So I'm very interested to know how Oppo and the Sky HD box work together. Also, I understand that the 1st HDMI input in Oppo 103D is on the back of the player and the 2nd is in the front panel. Is the front input practical for permanent use?If I build a setup with Avant with the following:Oppo 103D for - blu-ray / dvd- upscaling HD TV content from a set-top box (external tuner) via Oppo's HDMI-IN- upscaling Apple TV via Oppo's front HDMI-INMac Pro for- HEVC & other 4K content in native resolution- computer useWould this be a viable / working setup (also with PUC control in mind) to get the best PQ from Avant?KMA
Chris Townsend:I agree it wouldn't sit well with me having to buy supplementary equipment to make a TV work fluidly. Although I think Moxxey is using the Oppo as a Bluray drive primarily.
It's not as bad as that Chris. You do have a negative bent towards the Avant :)
The picture quality of the Avant, for Sky and Freeview HD, slightly exceeds the BV11, even with the 4K panel. Upscaling via the Avant is fine, just the Oppo does an even better job. Blu-ray upscaling is flawless via the Oppo.
You don't *need* or have to use the Oppo, it's just adds a little extra to the experience, particularly with Blu-ray. It also has various apps (Netflix etc) and handles the NAS content, so can up-scale that, too.
In the link to the FlatpanelsHD article about the coming UHD logo - that I posted on the previous page - one of the specs is:
"Upconversion – Is capable of upscaling HD video and displaying it at Ultra High-Definition resolution."
Means if the Avant has an UHD logo, it must be able of upscaling 1K content.
The question is, how good it is doing the upscaling?
According to Moxxey the scaler in the OPPO seems to do a better job. But we know that they use an excellent scaler in those players, therefore that shouldn't surprise anyone.
Millemissen: According to Moxxey the scaler in the OPPO seems to do a better job. But we know that they use an excellent scaler in those players, therefore that shouldn't surprise anyone.
But also remember one really important issue here, Millemissen.
Hardware (the scaling hardware) is only as good as the software that powers it and, let's face it, B&O has never been the best developers of software. It's never been their forte. The upscaling hardware in the Avant might be as good as the Oppo, if not better, but the software drivers that control this scaling might not be as effective. The Oppo does a better job as their software drivers are better implemented.
This is likely to improve, however. The engineer who installed my Avant, yesterday, is also an early B&O beta product tester and he had one of the early pre-release Avant's. He said that the initial upscaling was absolutely dreadful. At one stage, SD looked better than HD, as an example.
Not sure if you can remember, but motion, scaling and panning issues plagued early BV7 1080P TVs. However, a software updated fixed this within 6 months and the issue went away.
Looking great indeed! So it took 4.5 hours for them to install it? How much do they charge for that?? More generally, sometimes I did get charged for installation (e.g. BV-10 some 150 euro's; and even 1000 euro for a bigger BV11 + relocation wall mounted BV-10); clearly for a BL-2 or 3 nothing :-).
Neverthess, interest to hear experiences with installation costs....
moxxey: Not sure if you can remember, but motion, scaling and panning issues plagued early BV7 1080P TVs. However, a software updated fixed this within 6 months and the issue went away.
i do remember - that is why I don't belong to the 'pessimists' when it comes to the Avant/PQ.
I am sure they are working hard on this at the moment.
We should remember that B&O is a small company with a complex portefoilio.
They can't react as fast as the majors with their immense budgets and lots of human (tech) resources.
ReneB: Looking great indeed! So it took 4.5 hours for them to install it? How much do they charge for that??
Looking great indeed! So it took 4.5 hours for them to install it? How much do they charge for that??
Installation was free (well, part of the purchase), but I do know my dealer underestimated the time required to remove the BV11, sort the cables and install the new Avant. When the purchase was made, I was their first purchaser (end of May/early June?), so they had no previous idea of how long the install would take. I know the dealer has since priced up their Avant installs accordingly.
My install was performed - professionally as always - by Nick from http://www.hyggeliving.com
BeoGreg:A few days off and a new Avant is here. Well congrats Moxxey and thanks for (I believe) your first pic !
Well congrats Moxxey and thanks for (I believe) your first pic !
Thanks. I've put others up - the BV10-46 with orange fret and the BV11-46. A few years ago though as I always think photos of technology look very bland!
This Avant is incredibly large. Way bigger installed than it looked in the store!
moxxey,
what settings are you using with your oppo? are you using monitor video mode in order to get the oppo to do all the upscaling?
thanks in advance!
Taylor
Awesome Moxxey
Hope you are well satisfied
I am still awaiting for my dealer to come up with a solution for the matrix
What model is the Oppo 103 that beoworlders are using?
I know it has 2 outputs i will have to ask the dealer whether that would be an option to utilise the projector with the avant
quader: Awesome Moxxey Hope you are well satisfied
I am, but its *way* bigger than I expected, especially with the BL3s flanking the Avant. Can't believe how bigger a 55" looks compared to a 46" (a BV11-46 was in the same position, before).
I'm not sure if I can get used to this. It's like having a cinema screen in your room :)
quader: What model is the Oppo 103 that beoworlders are using?
It's an Oppo 103! http://www.quantumav.co.uk/home_cinema/bdp-103d.html
XTHX: what settings are you using with your oppo? are you using monitor video mode in order to get the oppo to do all the upscaling?
Yes, the Oppo up-scales the Blu-ray and NAS content (which is networked via the Oppo). It performs a slightly better job than the Avant and up-scaling content. Nothing radical, but there's an improvement.
I have no issues at all with Sky via the Avant, irrespective of what another thread suggested. No motion, tearing or other issues at all. Avant does a pretty decent job of upscaling Sky content and the Apple TV, too.
But...I've found an issue. As the Avant has a metal rear, this seems to slow my Apple TV connection (which is connected by wifi to the router). Was never an issue on the BV11-46, but the same Apple TV on the Avant takes far longer to launch a movie as it's clearly slowed the connection due to the metal casing?
moxxey: But...I've found an issue. As the Avant has a metal rear, this seems to slow my Apple TV connection (which is connected by wifi to the router). Was never an issue on the BV11-46, but the same Apple TV on the Avant takes far longer to launch a movie as it's clearly slowed the connection due to the metal casing?
Yes it's the metal case Moxxey. Wifi signal will degrade when shielded with metal casings. This is why Apple use glass to shield the antenna areas on an iPhone for example.
I suspect the Wifi antenna on the Avant is close to the top of the set and maybe near the middle where it isn't covered by the metal case.
moxxey: I have no issues at all with Sky via the Avant, irrespective of what another thread suggested. No motion, tearing or other issues at all. Avant does a pretty decent job of upscaling Sky content and the Apple TV, too.
Moxxey, I am really pleased you aren't suffering the same issues that I did with mine and that solid snake is having. Gives me some confidence that all will be well soon and I can consider placing another order.
Happy viewing !
Thanks Moxey
My dealer brought a paper template of the size for the avant to my house and compared to the BV7 Mk3
it's about a foot wider the height is about the same so it will be ok for me as i dont have the option to put it on a wall.
as regards the oppo 103 do you have the Ir cable with it and its controlled by the Beoremote one?
moxxey:Yes, the Oppo up-scales the Blu-ray and NAS content (which is networked via the Oppo). It performs a slightly better job than the Avant and up-scaling content. Nothing radical, but there's an improvement. I have no issues at all with Sky via the Avant, irrespective of what another thread suggested. No motion, tearing or other issues at all. Avant does a pretty decent job of upscaling Sky content and the Apple TV, too.
moxxey:One surprise is the difference the Oppo makes in upscaling content. Both the installer and myself were surprised by the difference. For instance, we were watching "12 Years A Slave" sent in 1080P, but upscaled by the Avant. Noticeably pixelated picture.As soon as we switched this to upscaling via the Oppo, where the Oppo sends a 4K picture to the Avant (so no Avant upscaling required), picture quality was completely flawless!
moxxey:Oh, after watching the new Avant for a little longer, there *is* some minor ripping/motion issues with Sky via the Avant that wasn't on the BV11. Nothing drastic, but it's noticeable. This is definitely an Avant software upscaling issue though, as it's also on Freeview HD, but not on anything that goes via the Oppo!Looks like the Avant is missing frames or simply can't process the content quickly enough. Definitely a software issue. Relatively minor.
jbrown77: Yes it's the metal case Moxxey. Wifi signal will degrade when shielded with metal casings. This is why Apple use glass to shield the antenna areas on an iPhone for example.
Sorry, I know *why* it happens, I meant I wondered why B&O placed a metal case on the rear of the TV, knowing the Apple TV goes in the rear!
I'll have to somehow sort out an ethernet cable for this now, or shift the one from the Avant (better idea). Now I just need to figure how to get that rear off.
KMA:[ So the Avant's picture has improved with use? I am referring to your earlier observations, Moxxey:
So the Avant's picture has improved with use? I am referring to your earlier observations, Moxxey:
Well, yes, but this is likely from the software update that was performed after I made that initial observation.
When the installer was here, I was comparing the channels and quality and posted the above as I was posting whilst he was in busy with finishing off the install.
Last thing he did was update the software, which also improved the motion issues I saw on Sky, which have mostly - but not completely - gone away. There are no outstanding issues using Sky on the Avant, that I can see. ie. I don't sit there thinking "that's a problem".
But we half-expected the motion and other issues to be software-related. As I said in the past, the installer was also a product tester and he said that picture rendering was so poor using the initial Avant pre-release software that it was laughable. So, it's definitely improved.
moxxey: Now I just need to figure how to get that rear off.
ah ha... slide it towards the outer edge and as it hits the end stop slide upwards.
moxxey:Well, yes, but this is likely from the software update that was performed after I made that initial observation. When the installer was here, I was comparing the channels and quality and posted the above as I was posting whilst he was in busy with finishing off the install. Last thing he did was update the software, which also improved the motion issues I saw on Sky, which have mostly - but not completely - gone away. There are no outstanding issues using Sky on the Avant, that I can see. ie. I don't sit there thinking "that's a problem". But we half-expected the motion and other issues to be software-related. As I said in the past, the installer was also a product tester and he said that picture rendering was so poor using the initial Avant pre-release software that it was laughable. So, it's definitely improved.
KMA: Thanks Moxxey, this is great to hear — takes me one step closer to getting an Avant for myself.
Thanks Moxxey, this is great to hear — takes me one step closer to getting an Avant for myself.
Measure up, this thing dominates (not quite as much as the BV7-55/BL7.6 though) the room. Incredible. My only regret is the size!
I think a new software update is due soon, with a 'massive' one planned for later this year, the installer told me.
moxxey:Measure up, this thing dominates (not quite as much as the BV7-55/BL7.6 though) the room. Incredible. My only regret is the size! I think a new software update is due soon, with a 'massive' one planned for later this year, the installer told me.
The tablestand looks great and the cable management is preferable to the floor stand in my opinion . Good choice.
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1