ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
mbolo01: tobeyone: But you can simply choose an album or two and let them play, you don't have to let it select the music for you. That is what I have been doing. Talking about album playing and bug list: Gapless playback is definitively not there, hurting when listening to artists like Pink Floyd. I have escalated to B&O (I'm not the only one I guess)
tobeyone: But you can simply choose an album or two and let them play, you don't have to let it select the music for you. That is what I have been doing.
But you can simply choose an album or two and let them play, you don't have to let it select the music for you. That is what I have been doing.
Talking about album playing and bug list: Gapless playback is definitively not there, hurting when listening to artists like Pink Floyd. I have escalated to B&O (I'm not the only one I guess)
That is a 'DLNA bug' - not a specific 'Moment bug'!
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
mbolo01:Talking about album playing and bug list: Gapless playback is definitively not there
The boys in Struer will probably comment to your remark: If you open the album in Deezer, you can listen to it in Gapless playback.
Ahum Struer, I have the Pink Floyd albums in 24/96... Deezer not!
"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
Millemissen:That is a 'DLNA bug' - not a specific 'Moment bug'!
Are you really sure, we tested it in the shop last week. But will give it another, maybe better try tomorrow.
I tagged an album as Gapless in iTunes, but after loading to the Moment it refused. Its seems more a problem of software. The album was tagged!
Chris:The boys in Struer will probably comment to your remark: If you open the album in Deezer, you can listen to it in Gapless playback. Ahum Struer, I have the Pink Floyd albums in 24/96... Deezer not! " Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth. "
Millemissen: But I must say, that I am a bit surpriced by the reactions of some of the Boworlders. They seem to focus on their own expectations for a modern BeoSound.
But I must say, that I am a bit surpriced by the reactions of some of the Boworlders.
They seem to focus on their own expectations for a modern BeoSound.
They are called "customers", and B&O should concentrate on their expectations too or else they will be become mere spectators as their customers shop elsewhere!
Ban boring signatures!
Millemissen: That is a 'DLNA bug' - not a specific 'Moment bug'! MM
Oops ... one bug less then! I'm coming from an Airplay world, so a lot to learn on the DLNA front
BS Moment, BS Core, BG 4002, BC 4500, BS1, BL18, BL19, BL8000 + RCV1, A6, M5, M3, A1, P6 (tks Botty), H5, TR1
Puncher:They are called "customers" , and B&O should concentrate on their expectations too or else they will be become mere spectators as their customers shop elsewhere! Ban boring signatures!
Raeuber:I agree. And only a few CEO's know what their customers really want. One of them was Mr. Steve Jobs, but really not Tue Mantoni. Tue believes that new customers like his new Beoplay products, this might be correct. But he also believes that the old customers will also like these 'Play products' and that's his big fault (in my opinion the Moment is a Beopay product and not a sound system from B&O). The old customers are serious music listeners and don't like childish streaming boxes for background music.
I don't dismiss the Moodmusic features, I think they are quite novel and can have a place under certain circumstances. What I do question is the reliance on these features only, I believe they should be included on top of a comprehensive search, find and organise system, whereby any album, artist or single track can be found and played easily, with the minimum of effort or fuss, along with seamless local and cloud content integration. Only then can the product be considered a main room music system.
As this is only software there is no excuse for it not to be included.
Millemissen:That is a 'DLNA bug' - not a specific 'Moment bug'! MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
- Flere
smile and enjoy the moment
Hey Raeuber, Steve Jobs actually did not know what his customers wanted. The guy was so such an arrogant salesman that he 'told' people what they should want! He did the opposite of what we learn in marketing which is 'know your customer'. People learnt to accept his ideas and eventually fell in love with them.
Sadly Raeuber this 'older' B&O customer is a 'dying' breed - literally. Like it or not streaming is the thing. It's certainly not a 'childish' service. Only today the UK's best respected BBC DJ since John Peel, Zane Lowe left the shores of the UK to join a Management position at iTunes (streaming division). He was the guy who interviewed Paul McCartney for the BL18 launch! Whilst I prefer downloading music myself, I do stream all of my movies.
Paul W: Hey Raeuber, Steve Jobs actually did not know what his customers wanted. The guy was so such an arrogant salesman that he 'told' people what they should want! He did the opposite of what we learn in marketing which is 'know your customer'. People learnt to accept his ideas and eventually fell in love with them. Sadly Raeuber this 'older' B&O customer is a 'dying' breed - literally. Like it or not streaming is the thing. It's certainly not a 'childish' service. Only today the UK's best respected BBC DJ since John Peel, Zane Lowe left the shores of the UK to join a Management position at iTunes (streaming division). He was the guy who interviewed Paul McCartney for the BL18 launch! Whilst I prefer downloading music myself, I do stream all of my movies.
Streaming or not, the product needs to be able to locate any particular song quickly and efficiently, I do not always want to listen to what someone else thinks I might like!
Jowus, interesting but he lies the problem. BS9000 was 20 years ago. Tue Mantani did A LOT of research when he joined B&O to find out why B&O the brand wasn't cool with todays generation. The answer was simple. The new generation of DENMARK said that they were products that their father's bought and never them. And there's your problem. Old. Boring. Has beens! They WERE NOT SELLING!!! = NO MONEY!!! Period! This is why Tue discontinued all of those old iconic to some products.
Too true Puncher. When I listen to music I want to choose it myself. There and then. Thats why a mood wheel is no good for me. It's like the 'shuffle' button on a CD player back in the 80s.
Puncher: Millemissen: But I must say, that I am a bit surpriced by the reactions of some of the Boworlders. They seem to focus on their own expectations for a modern BeoSound. They are called "customers", and B&O should concentrate on their expectations too or else they will be become mere spectators as their customers shop elsewhere!
No!
They are called: some of the costumers.
You can't please everyody - even B&O can't
Booted from another thread........
I had a play with the Moment this week.
It is much smaller than I had anticipated and the physical form is much better in real world than it is from the photographs.
I share a similar view on the Moment to BB above:-
1. It is an unfinished product. It is so far behind schedule, B&O had to release it currently is.
2. Searching:- Artist search to come 2-3 updates later (after Multi-room). Otherwise, I found the BSMo very frustrating to use in search mode. With 35 million songs available on Deezer (I assume your own content will be in the 35m), it is like a very large random song player. i.e. I did not readily find an album I wanted to listen to. So I want to find Dark side of the Moon. Finding Pink was very difficult never mind Pink Floyd. So in essence, the search function to be anything like 5% of the Beosound 5, it needs a monumental programming effort IMHO
3. Integration with legacy B&O products. ML is gone, Need a further £600 ML/NL box if you don't have a BV11/Avant Smart TV. BSMo becomes audio Master, other products (BS5, BS9000) become Option 6 Slaves.
4. The BSMo does not incorporate other B&O controls. Thus you will need the BSMo tablet and you will need the BeoR1 if you want to sit down a flick between audio and video. Thus the total integration package B&O is renowned for, is questionable from a control perspective.
5. Highly likely other wood finishes are in the pipeline.
Overall, I like the concept but it appears to be such an unfinished product, with the incorrect focus on Multi-Room. In my opinion, the basic search functions need drastic upgrading (BS5 on steroids), followed by BV TV/Audio Master control issue needs fixing ASAP, then Multi-Room.
10
Millemissen: Puncher: Millemissen: But I must say, that I am a bit surpriced by the reactions of some of the Boworlders. They seem to focus on their own expectations for a modern BeoSound. They are called "customers", and B&O should concentrate on their expectations too or else they will be become mere spectators as their customers shop elsewhere! No! They are called: some of the costumers. You can't please everyody - even B&O can't MM
You remind me very much of TripEnglish, who also was very pro-B&O and wouldn't accept anything negative said about them, he always had to come back with something implying you were wrong, he had some sort of "insider" knowledge, and B&O knew what they were doing and would win out in the end ................................... right up until the shop he worked in went under!
Millemissen: People in general do not want to fiddle with searching for music in a more or less well structured library - period! They do want to hear the music, they like - at an instant!
People in general do not want to fiddle with searching for music in a more or less well structured library - period!
They do want to hear the music, they like - at an instant!
It should be an "All in One solution". A replacement for your exsisting audiodevice.
Let the customer decide if it presses the Moodwheel to start, or to start with a specific album/artist WITHOUT the help of any extra iDevice. After that the Moodsensing comes in (or not)
Flere: Millemissen: That is a 'DLNA bug' - not a specific 'Moment bug'! MM MM That may be so, but since B&O has both the controller and the player in one hand in the Moment, solving the gapless play issue is just a matter of priority and whether B&O finds this important.
That may be so, but since B&O has both the controller and the player in one hand in the Moment, solving the gapless play issue is just a matter of priority and whether B&O finds this important.
Please do some searching on 'gapless playback - DLNA' and you will find out, that it is not that easy.
Personally I settled with my Squeezebox/LogitechMediaServer-solution because of that issue.
I am mostly an album listener (one of the old socks like Räuber, you know). And I hate listening to an album like 'Sergent Pebber's...', the Pink Floyd albums or the Moody Blues first albums with gaps!
Paul W:Too true Puncher. When I listen to music I want to choose it myself. There and then. Thats why a mood wheel is no good for me. It's like the 'shuffle' button on a CD player back in the 80s.
Beobuddy: Millemissen: People in general do not want to fiddle with searching for music in a more or less well structured library - period! They do want to hear the music, they like - at an instant! It should be an "All in One solution". A replacement for your exsisting audiodevice. Let the customer decide if it presses the Moodwheel to start, or to start with a specific album/artist WITHOUT the help of any extra iDevice. After that the Moodsensing comes in (or not)
Just swipe up from the main screen - and do your search!
Then this comes in: http://archivedforum2.beoworld.org/forums/t/13922.aspx
You can't be serious.
Paul W:Hey Raeuber, Steve Jobs actually did not know what his customers wanted. The guy was so such an arrogant salesman that he 'told' people what they should want! He did the opposite of what we learn in marketing which is 'know your customer'. People learnt to accept his ideas and eventually fell in love with them.
Paul W:Jowus, interesting but he lies the problem. BS9000 was 20 years ago. Tue Mantani did A LOT of research when he joined B&O to find out why B&O the brand wasn't cool with todays generation. The answer was simple. The new generation of DENMARK said that they were products that their father's bought and never them. And there's your problem. Old. Boring. Has beens! They WERE NOT SELLING!!! = NO MONEY!!! Period! This is why Tue discontinued all of those old iconic to some products.
PhilLondon:You have playlists for that. You are not forced to use the mood wheel or pattern play. Beoworld app with direct photo upload and emoticons. Other apps: The Story Mouse . Grignan guide .
BeoNut since '75
elephant: PhilLondon: You have playlists for that. You are not forced to use the mood wheel or pattern play. Beoworld app with direct photo upload and emoticons. Other apps: The Story Mouse . Grignan guide . Using the tablet to manage playlists would be a pain if not impossible. I would hope the App is at least as iTunes' playlist editing & tuning capabilities. Otherwise I would be constantly editing, exporting, and importing playlists .... which is not going to happen.
PhilLondon: You have playlists for that. You are not forced to use the mood wheel or pattern play. Beoworld app with direct photo upload and emoticons. Other apps: The Story Mouse . Grignan guide .
As the Moment is, at it's heart, a tablet, there should be no need to use any other phone or tablet + app to allow extended search capabilities, it should all be possible on the Moment itself.
It needs to be as good as the best of the rest with the mood stuff on top if it wants to be a worldbeater!
jowus: Paul, but what you seems to forget is the old generation made them millions .
Paul, but what you seems to forget is the old generation made them millions .
Question. I'm in the mid 40's. So am I old if I ask for traditional proper working basic search functions?
People around my age are mostly more capable of buying than the youngest generation, I think. Let the "older" customer be your ambassador for the brand. They are not that old to understand a new way of using/controlling, but don't take away their faith in the brand when it comes to easy controlling.
This subject suddenly changed from with a brilliant children's eyes look into a new sound system in a disappointment for long loyal and serious users/listeners. I really hope that the 'boys' in Struer not feel superior and read along.
But imagine nothing, for Gapless playback you need a double buffering mechanism (playing track and next track), don’t expect it from the Moment its not designed for this.
I will probably buy the Moment, mostly for the benefit of my family. It’s easy to use if you make some ready playlists on Deezer for them.
For serious listening myself I will keep the Mac mini, Audirvana & Amarra combo with my Dac connected to the ML/NL converter . And that was actually not my planning, its a disappointment.
But now it comes: How on earth can I justify the purchase of the Moment with those opportunities to my wife, she will explain to me I’m definitely crazy. Should I mention its the ‘Beovirus’? Would that be of any help.
I have now sold my BS5/BM5 combo and are ready to call my dealer and order the Moment tomorrow 😃
Sadly Jowus, I don't think any generation made them millions as since the 1980s, B&O go bankrupt every decade on a trot. Maybe some of its management are secretly stealing the money ;)
But no, I agree, a new product should perform well, perfectly. Naples playback - come on, that's essential! And something that every iTunes user has been used to since 2004. Hence why I still like my music on my iPhone streaming to either my Apple TV OR B&O A8 Airplay!
Anyway, interesting debate.But, it is an awful lot of money isn't it!
'Naples playback'?
Looks like someone's auto-error-introducer is turned on.
Graham
Millemissen: Please do some searching on 'gapless playback - DLNA' and you will find out, that it is not that easy.
Using Synology DS Audio on my iDevice against Synology Media Server, the same DMS the Moment is a renderer of, I can play my Floyd tracks gapless, so I'm assuming it is not a that difficult for B&O coders to do what Synology has done in the DS Audio app. I keep hope :-)
vikinger:'Naples playback'? Looks like someone's auto-error-introducer is turned on. Graham
vikinger: 'Naples playback'? Looks like someone's auto-error-introducer is turned on. Graham
Must mean 'continuously playing back' - the music doesn't even take a nap!
mbolo01: Millemissen: Please do some searching on 'gapless playback - DLNA' and you will find out, that it is not that easy. Using Synology DS Audio on my iDevice against Synology Media Server, the same DMS the Moment is a renderer of, I can play my Floyd tracks gapless, so I'm assuming it is not a that difficult for B&O coders to do what Synology has done in the DS Audio app. I keep hope :-)
That is something that takes place on the server side (in the Synology NAS/Audio Station) - and you must use the Synology app for playback.
The server side is not controlled by the Moment (or B&O).
Millemissen: mbolo01: Millemissen: Please do some searching on 'gapless playback - DLNA' and you will find out, that it is not that easy. Using Synology DS Audio on my iDevice against Synology Media Server, the same DMS the Moment is a renderer of, I can play my Floyd tracks gapless, so I'm assuming it is not a that difficult for B&O coders to do what Synology has done in the DS Audio app. I keep hope :-) That is something that takes place on the server side (in the Synology NAS/Audio Station) - and you must use the Synology app for playback. The server side is not controlled by the Moment (or B&O). MM
Millemissen: That is something that takes place on the server side (in the Synology NAS/Audio Station) - and you must use the Synology app for playback. The server side is not controlled by the Moment (or B&O). MM
My understanding is, and correct me if I'm wrong:
Synology Digital Media Servers (DMS) stores content and makes it available to network digital media players (DMP) e.g Synology DS Audio app on IOS or B&O Moment. In my test, the media server is the same for both players, one of them plays gapless, the other doesn't.
I'll try other players I have in hand like VLC, Sony TV, XBMC, DENON Amp
Extract from my post above:
It means, your server (any type) is of no importance. You need two parts to realize Gapless:
First, a player who has the capabilities in his software.
Second, the hardware where the software is placed on, needs memory to load a new track before the playing track ends.
For recognition of Gapless: You have to write a tag in your file, could be done by hand or automatic by the players software you using (what iTunes does, look into the configuration).
Memory on board the Moment: how much is a mystery as with all their specifications. Will it be enough? Maybe, but the software they use at the very moment on the player is not capable. Even when a tag is placed in the music file.
I have sent the following to Beocare:
Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2 Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset