ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
To start off as our famous dutch footballcoach probably would say. “To fall with the door into the house”: I’m gutted, disappointed and a frustrated feeling grows. And that’s the first time ever with a release of a B&O product.
Yesterday I’ve had the opportunity to play with the Moment for about 1,5 hour.
The dealer’s Moment was fully functional with the Nas with it’s own library and the Deezer account (of course)
What I expected and was hoping for the past weeks, was a device where streaming services and your own content comes together in just 1 device and topped of with a superior sound quality and smooth control.
But just after a few minutes the enthousiasm slowly faded away and was replaced by a disappointed feeling.
It started with a positive feeling as (as example) I’ve been told that you only have to enter the artist’s name, and the Moment starts searching through your own content and after that the online Deezer services and decides which is the better one and starts playing. But that’s where it already went wrong.
The search of an artist can only be done by entering his/her first character. Just only the first! After that you have to swipe through the whole collection starting with that character. So searching for lets say “Mumfords & Sons”? You have to start off with “Madonna” and you have to swipe all the way to the right…
Next thing. Trying to start a radiostation. First you need to create a collection of favourite stations via your account. But then you only have the choice of your most used and created/choosen ones. But with Netradio at the moment with over 100.000+ stations and you want to search for a specific station?
Then there isn’t also an option to search or browse through the different stations by entering it’s name. Only the option to search by genre. But then again, it needs a lot of time to find your wanted one.
Next was the playlist options. The songs within the playlist at the first screen can be played by touching them. But the problem is, that it takes a lot of time to start that specifc song, because it has to be found somewhere. And during that amount of time, there isn’t any confirmation that you have touched that song. Only a very small blinking of the “playlist”album notifies you, which can easily be missed. During that time and the fact that you have to touch very tiny small characters, you start to doubt whether you’ve touched it properly. The song isn’t highlighted as it does in the second screen. But that second screen gives far less overview of the songs in the choosen playlist.
And if you start to doubt wheter you’ve touched it properly, and you touch it again, the screen responds with the slightest form of a shivering finger (as the characters are that small and has to be touched very precisely) with swiping to the left or right. Sometimes the screen doesn’t even react or has a very late response.
In other words, I can’t take this with me at home. If I would introduce this to my familiy and for instance my spous wants to starts a specific album, she would struggle to find it. And I can imagine her reaction and expression on her face already. She will ask if I lost my marbles when I bought this product.
With all the added features in the Moment, like it’s “Moodsensing” and it’s enormeous collection of Music created by the combination of your own content and streamingservices, they totally forgot to think about where it’s all about with B&O.
The basics, just the ease of use. I think B&O concentrated to much by willing to release a different concept and overlooked the first simple (searching) basics. In my opinion, all the added functionality has to be an added feature and not the main thing to struggle through.
How is B&O going to survive if it starts releasing products that needs an introduction video before you can use it?
Thanks for a very good insight!
Beobuddy:and the Moment starts searching through your own content and after that the online Deezer services and decides which is the better one and starts playing.
You mean you're not in full control yourself ?
Until now the only thing that scares me off are the two additional services, I mean that this device will cost you extra money each year. Now only for Deezer but what as TuneIn also demands money in the future, then it becomes an expensive annual joke. Terrestrial radio is still free but not possible with the Moment.
"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
I had a play with the Moment this week.
It is much smaller than I had anticipated and the physical form is much better in real world than it is from the photographs.
I share a similar view on the Moment to BB above:-
1. It is an unfinished product. It is so far behind schedule, B&O had to release it currently is.
2. Searching:- Artist search to come 2-3 updates later (after Multi-room). Otherwise, I found the BSMo very frustrating to use in search mode. With 35 million songs available on Deezer (I assume your own content will be in the 35m), it is like a very large random song player. i.e. I did not readily find an album I wanted to listen to. So I want to find Dark side of the Moon. Finding Pink was very difficult never mind Pink Floyd. So in essence, the search function to be anything like 5% of the Beosound 5, it needs a monumental programming effort IMHO
3. Integration with legacy B&O products. ML is gone, Need a further £600 ML/NL box if you don't have a BV11/Avant Smart TV. BSMo becomes audio Master, other products (BS5, BS9000) become Option 6 Slaves.
4. The BSMo does not incorporate other B&O controls. Thus you will need the BSMo tablet and you will need the BeoR1 if you want to sit down a flick between audio and video. Thus the total integration package B&O is renowned for, is questionable from a control perspective.
5. Highly likely other wood finishes are in the pipeline.
Overall, I like the concept but it appears to be such an unfinished product, with the incorrect focus on Multi-Room. In my opinion, the basic search functions need drastic upgrading (BS5 on steroids), followed by BV TV/Audio Master control issue needs fixing ASAP, then Multi-Room.
10
Chris: You mean you're not in full control yourself ?
As I've been told, the Moment judges the quality (probably bitrate/depth) , so no is the answer. You could mislead the system by renaming or adding some info in the id-tag.
The thought however behind this is to simplify searching. You don't have to think about the location where your searched artist is stored. It's one step less to think about.
Chris: Until now the only thing that scares me off are the two additional services, I mean that this device will cost you extra money each year. Now only for Deezer but what as TuneIn also demands money in the future, then it becomes an expensive annual joke. Terrestrial radio is still free but not possible with the Moment.
This a another thing I worry about. At the moment I have 1 preminum Spotify account used by several members of the familiy. It works with locally stored playlists at several devices. You can't use (of course) these IPad/Iphone whatever simultaneniously. So I'm at a point where I 'm considering an extra account (with familiy discount benefits). With Deezer I have to start again with new subscribtions and recite other (Spotify) subscribtion(s). And there are with Spotify already numerous playlists, like topcharts, that I and my daughters follow.
The nicest solution would be adding exiscting services into the Moment. (I know Spotify doesn't support multiroom at this moment)
Aussie Michael:Can you use the beoremote app to search ?
I don't know. I haven't experienced that yet.
Despite my negative experience, I really want(ed) this Moment. It's an audiosystem which doesn't need to be controlled by any iDevice or Android. It's my personal opnion that a music system should also be able to be controlled by any other member in the room.
If I would start with a song from a playlist with my iPhone and another member enters the room and asks to change the (next) song, then that member needs acces to my iPhone to change it. But that could be inconvenient at that moment as I'm probably answering a phonecall or e-mail.
There are other brands, like Sonos, which you only can control by a handheld device. That's not what I want.
I saw it in flesh and it's terrible. It seems a case for a cheap android tablet.
It has a poor interface, a poor feeling and the wood touch is awful
Does anyone else think the same?
I guess that was the most extreme version of disliking the BS Moment, that we have had untill now.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
scognamiglio:I saw it in flesh and it's terrible. It seems a case for a cheap android tablet. It has a poor interface, a poor feeling and the wood touch is awful
BeoNut since '75
I am not sure, that I can follow you!
Holding the Jukebox in your hand with the screen upside and the wheel to the right means holding it horisontal, or?
If you turn it around (flip it) - now with the wooden side up, and the wheel still on your right side - you can put it on the Soundheart to 'reach' the contacts, just as you can with the screen side up.
I don't see the problem
Bv7Mk3:Does anyone else think the same?
Millemissen: I am not sure, that I can follow you! Holding the Jukebox in your hand with the screen upside and the wheel to the right means holding it horisontal, or? If you turn it around (flip it) - now with the wooden side up, and the wheel still on your right side - you can put it on the Soundheart to 'reach' the contacts, just as you can with the screen side up. I don't see the problem MM
I think Elephant was saying that rather than have specific interaction orientations, the jukebox should be position agnostic, and can reorient itself to how it is being held. Therefore, inductive charging rather than actually having to be aware of how to place it in the Sound Heart.
I think that would have been a great implementation. If a phone can have simple accelerometers, why not this thing? B&O can place it's logo elsewhere, so that in any position, the unit is being held "correctly." It may not be shaped the way it is currently, but then, because the user can hold it in any orientation, it wouldn't matter.
elephant:....But as seriously challenged by the two gentlemen: is it great design ?
BeoBoy68: Bang & Olufsen should sell them alone on Apple Store.
Bang & Olufsen should sell them alone on Apple Store.
I wonder if B&O would consider a limited implementation as software updates to other products, for example, the Home Media function of their televisions.
Since B&O are already partnering with Twonky, maybe that server implementation can somehow have code / analysis added, either on the server end, or even the Beovision client end for Mood / Pattern / even MOTS.
It would certainly be a welcome addition of a desirable feature to the usual basic DLNA client implementation.
From a marketing perspective, I don't think it could cannabalize other products in the classical sense because, televisions cost much more than B&O music products which would have this software.
Think about it: MoodWheel / PatternPlay / MOTS across any B&O product which can play music and has a visual interface.
Has B&O produced the audio equivalent of the Aston Martin Cygnet? A nice case to put your iPad inside. Like a great respray for a Toyota IQ?
Beo Century ,Beoplay V1, Beocenter 6, Ex-Beolit 12, Beotime , A8. Beolit 15 , Form 2i , Beolab 2000, Beoplay A3.Beosound 1
elephant: scognamiglio: I saw it in flesh and it's terrible. It seems a case for a cheap android tablet. It has a poor interface, a poor feeling and the wood touch is awful This morning I have been reading the New Yorker article on Johny Ives (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/23/shape-things-come) and so I was prompted to think about design choices. Taking one small element, the recharge contacts, I don't know if you have noticed that there are two on the tablet. This means one must flip Fromm wooden to aluminium in the vertical plane. Every time I have played with the moment in the store I do the opposite- flip in the horizontal plane and of course it doesn't fit. Now Ives may have put two contacts on the base so that a horizontal flip would work. Or put two along one edge of the tablet. Which design would have been more elegant ? Or would inductive charging and no contacts have been the better way to go ? I suspect the Moment could have benefitted from more thoughtful design in a number of areas - not just the contacts.
scognamiglio: I saw it in flesh and it's terrible. It seems a case for a cheap android tablet. It has a poor interface, a poor feeling and the wood touch is awful
Does this mean that the Moment tablet can not be operated screen side up with the wheel to the left??
Surely, surely not!
Ban boring signatures!
Maybe the chinese version can
elephant: This morning I have been reading the New Yorker article on Johny Ives (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/23/shape-things-come) and so I was prompted to think about design choices.
This morning I have been reading the New Yorker article on Johny Ives (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/23/shape-things-come) and so I was prompted to think about design choices.
Hi Ed,
That article is a worthwhile read, although at one point I did begin to think I'd started reading something the length of War & Peace!
Graham
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Chris Townsend:The software will develop in time I'm sure so, I'll simply wait for that to inevitably get better.
The damn thing about this is, that if everyone waits, there will be nothing to 'get better' - because then there will be no Moment next year.
Not saying that you (or others) must buy the BS Moment instantly.
I am just pointing at a fact.
And I am still hoping, that there will be enough costumers, who like the concept/need ecactly, what it is doing, so far.
Millemissen: The damn thing about this is, that if everyone waits, there will be nothing to 'get better' - because then there will be no Moment next year.
You're probably so right with this. That's why I wrote "How will B&O survive..."
A more easy way of selling would be the support of wma lossless (I know your (hardware)points of view about that).
But it would make more sense. All content on your BM/BS5 could be used instantly or in a combo setup.
B&O "pushed" us years ago towards wma lossless. Logic choice I thought. Lossless format without losing quality and added with artist-info and coverart. B&O sold even the extra cd-ripping feature for the BS5, which ripped in wma-lossless. So, now you end up with all your music ripped in wma lossless and that needs converted to a lossy format.
No, thanks.
I think there are a lot of good points in this thread, and there sure are areas for improvement. But its mostly up to software, so it will improve I´m sure.
I now lived with and used Moment for a week now, and I must give credit to B&O that they got at least the "simplicity" right. It´s much easier now if I want to play the music I love, and setup was very smooth including integration to my BV11.
_______________________
Before press "LIST" until A.AUX appear. "GO". Get iDevice. Start Spotify/Deezer. Choose playlist. Find "Playmaker" over Airplay. Play.
About the same as above for accessing my iTunes library, but using the Remote App.
Sound very good but dropouts occurred.
Do not use the iDevice
Now: I just press one button on the Moment, or press the assigned key on my Beo4 (in my case CD).
Sound very good and no dropouts
I can use my iDevice
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It´s when it comes to how the artists / Albums are presented and search functions on the Jukebox, it becomes evident there are areas for improvement (I´ve sent a long list to Beocare (see the other Moment thread).
But its okay to do search on Beomusic app, and put a selected song in a play-cue, if I want to listen to a specific song.
/C
Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2 Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset
Chris Townsend:I'm going to a launch night tommorow at Newcastle where there will be some people from Struer, so hopefully they will be able to tell us how they expect it to progress. Puncher, I'll see you there maybe?
Puncher, I'll see you there maybe?
'fraid not, I've got other things on, although I am up there on Sunday (primarily to see Top Gear Live) so I may get to see it if I can persuade the rest of the Puncher clan to swing by!
Hiort: Now: I just press one button on the Moment, or press the assigned key on my Beo4 (in my case CD). Sound very good and no dropouts I can use my iDevice
That's one of the big advantages of the Moment. Playing streaming music without any dropouts or having the feeling that it could happen.
The problem I have is the "I "in the sentence. "I"referres almost automatically to any iDevice. What happens if your not alone in the room and another person wants to skip forward? You have to hand over your iDevice.
That's why I prefer a stand-alone device which can be controlled by anyone in the room. That's another one ot the advantages of having a devoted audio-tablet.
@Hiort
Thanks for that statement!
It verifies very much, what I have been trying to say for a long time now.
Some will love this device, others will hate it.
I am sure living with it for a while will let it grow on you.
It is not the ultimate soundsystem, but it is a very good music companion.
Yesterday I was at the dealer and said I want Michael Jackson - Thriller album listen on the BeoSound moment. First he tried it on the moment, then he said it would be better on the app. Until I then told him to let it go. It really seems to be a problem to meet specific needs. When I said that I have a 5 Beosund he said it is a better choice and I do not need the Beosound moment.
BeoVision 7-40 HD-Modul, BeoViision 11-40, BeoVision 8 32" white + Floor Stand, 2x Apple TV 4 mit Kodi, DVD2, HDR2, BeoSound 9000 MKIII White Edition, 2x BeoSound Moment + Floor Stand, 2x BeoSound Stage, BeoSound Core, BeoSound 35 brass, BeoSound 1 MKII + Floor Stand, 2x BeoSound 3, BeoSound 6, BeoSound 3200, BeoSound Essence , BeoPlay A9 Nordic Sky twilight, BeoPlay A8 MKII white + Floor Stand, BeoPlay A2 grey, 2x BeoPlay A3 white/bright blue, BeoPlay A1, 2x BeoPlay S3 white, Beolit 12 (White Edition), Beogram TX2, BeoLab 5, BeoLab 3, BeoLab 7-4, BeoLab 8000 MKII, Beolab 11, 2x BeoLab 3500, 4x LC2, 4x Beo4 - MK1-3, BeoRemonte One BT, 2x BeoRemonte Halo, Audio Terminal, Beolink 1000, BeoLink 7000, 2x EarSet A8, 3x A9 Keyring, EarSet 2, Form2, BeoPlay H6, 3x BeoTime, Beowatch, 2x Lightmanager Pro+ B&o Version, 4x BeoCom5, Beoline2, 3x Speakerphone, BeoTalk 1200, 5x Cabinets, MLGW, BLGW,
Beobuddy:. The problem I have is the "I "in the sentence. "I"referres almost automatically to any iDevice. What happens if your not alone in the room and another person wants to skip forward? You have to hand over your iDevice. That's why I prefer a stand-alone device which can be controlled by anyone in the room. That's another one ot the advantages of having a devoted audio-tablet.
Page 20 - userguide:
"Operating BeoSound Moment
Use the wheel on either side of the interface (Jukebox) to adjust volume, start and stop playback and step. You can mute (pause) the sound by making a short tap in the middle of the touch circle."
Or use the BeoRemoteOne or the 'wheely' (Essence).
Iceman10245: Yesterday I was at the dealer and said I want Michael Jackson - Thriller album listen on the BeoSound moment. First he tried it on the moment, then he said it would be better on the app. Until I then told him to let it go. It really seems to be a problem to meet specific needs. When I said that I have a 5 Beosund he said it is a better choice and I do not need the Beosound moment.
Finding a specific 'Artist/Album' on the BS5 was never the easiest task either!
Not a very educated dealer. I find my Thriller album in my collection either with a few touches on the Moment or even fewer via Beomusic app. But I agree that you probably do not need Moment if you have a BS5 and are happy with it.
Millemissen: @Hiort Thanks for that statement! It verifies very much, what I have been trying to say for a long time now. Some will love this device, others will hate it. I am sure living with it for a while will let it grow on you. It is not the ultimate soundsystem, but it is a very good music companion. MM
Do not misunderstand me about my comments. I really like and want this Moment, but it lacks some basic functionality and support for wma lossless ( imho opnion), which holds back a purchase.
Beobuddy:Do not misunderstand me about my comments. I really like and want this Moment, but it lacks some basic functionality and support for wma lossless ( imho opnion), which holds back a purchase.
Simonbeo: Has B&O produced the audio equivalent of the Aston Martin Cygnet? A nice case to put your iPad inside. Like a great respray for a Toyota IQ?
I have the same feeling.
Bang & Olufsen need quickly one Artist to create pieces of Art for an amazing portfolio;
like Jensen or Lewis did in the past.
Why B&O don't work again with Jacob Jensen who look very healthy ?
An Artist is never retired !
WMA is a proprietary lossless audio codec created by Microsoft, the format specification of it has never been publicly released. Even ffmpeg and libav support the format only to some degree. B&O has taken this format because they based their Beomaster on a Windows XP platform.
Why not converting your existing WMA files into the more popular Flac or even AIFF format, this will bring absolutely no loss of quality to your files. And its future proof for any coming audio systems.
Millemissen: Iceman10245: Yesterday I was at the dealer and said I want Michael Jackson - Thriller album listen on the BeoSound moment. First he tried it on the moment, then he said it would be better on the app. Until I then told him to let it go. It really seems to be a problem to meet specific needs. When I said that I have a 5 Beosund he said it is a better choice and I do not need the Beosound moment. Finding a specific 'Artist/Album' on the BS5 was never the easiest task either! MM
It was a serious omission on the BS5 and it is a serious omission here too, the lesson should have been learned from the BS5, enough complained about it!
Chris:WMA is a proprietary lossless audio codec created by Microsoft, the format specification of it has never been publicly released. Even ffmpeg and libav support the format only to some degree. B&O has taken this format because they based their Beomaster on a Windows XP platform. Why not converting your existing WMA files into the more popular Flac or even AIFF format, this will bring absolutely no loss of quality to your files. And its future proof for any coming audio systems. " Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth. "