ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Raeuber: Hiort: Is this really correct? I think I read that they where shifting the software dev team from one company to another. So, the development was in fact already outsourced. Not quite sure. Didn't B&O develop Moment's software by themselves?
Hiort: Is this really correct? I think I read that they where shifting the software dev team from one company to another. So, the development was in fact already outsourced.
Is this really correct? I think I read that they where shifting the software dev team from one company to another. So, the development was in fact already outsourced.
Not quite sure. Didn't B&O develop Moment's software by themselves?
The concept of the BS Moment (the idea of MoodWheel and PatternPlay) was definitely made in Struer - we are talking 'mother and father'/conception here.
The education of this child (if you get what I mean) was given in the hands of Lyle Clarke, whodevoloped the main interface.
Some of you might know Lyle Clarke from this video:
http://youtu.be/pdCXwuWv0qE
Lyle has been by B&O since august 2006. Since august 2014 his title (and job) is 'Senior Manager, UX Concepts'.
This however, has little to do with the 'multiroom' features.
The software development in general is done in cooperation with external companies. Something being done in Struer, and something (mostly the programming parts) in India or somewhere else.
Betatesting is done in Denmark (and maybe somewhere else?).
There is nothing odd (or hidden) about this. It is how a modern software-based product is developed.
Doing this all of this with the manpower and resources in Struer would impossible.
Actually there is nothing new about it. B&O has alway bought components for their products everywhere in the world.
But how these were put together, was (and still is) what is interesting.
It is the concept behind the B&O products, that is essencial/important - and that is a B&O-thing.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Chris: Millemissen: Besides - a lot of the dealers has not been trained on 'multiroom' yet. Training started two weeks ago... Most of the dealers have to be well informed by now.
Millemissen: Besides - a lot of the dealers has not been trained on 'multiroom' yet.
Besides - a lot of the dealers has not been trained on 'multiroom' yet.
Training started two weeks ago... Most of the dealers have to be well informed by now.
The guy, who is doing the training in Sweden, Norway, Finnland will spend the next two weeks there, before his summer vacation starts.
So, no - not all dealers are already 'multiroom-feature informed' by now.
Millemissen:The guy, who is doing the training in Sweden, Norway, Finnland will spend the next two weeks there
Probably I misplaced this phrase: -Training in my region-
"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
Hello All
Well, interesting read today.
I love the moment.
After reading all of this i called a dealer for some info.
I am informed that the multi-room update is in fact the end of June with some other functions, the only piece that is not will be the update to the beomusic App which is in August.
Right now i am using ML so i already have multiroom.
cheers
Eclipse 65V1-32Beosound M5Essence MK2BLI
The nas function is it part of the update
Millemissen:The concept of the BS Moment (the idea of MoodWheel and PatternPlay) was definitely made in Struer
Well, maybe using the colors for a colored wheel is a B&O idea. Mapping musical moods to colors is something that Gracenote offers. LINK and LINKSo nothing spectacular here on the B&O side. I think it is also mentioned somewhere in the menu of BS Moment...
BeoMotion: Mapping musical moods to colors is something that Gracenote offers.
Mapping musical moods to colors is something that Gracenote offers.
The old greeks already did that!
But they did not come up with a device, that can handle it.
Hi MM
congrats to you 5555's Post. nice Number!
Cheers
Beroli
Oh thanks - I did not even notice that
"This is not an easy task and should be seen a seperate job beside the update for the Moment-interface (improved search function on Deezer, TuneIn....)."
!!! and the search on the NAS/DLNA tooooooo !!! please don't forget this. I have to demand it. You know already, MM
But today it seems like a boxing-night. Face to Face. I like it, when emotions are kicking in. You can hate or love the Idea of the Moment. I love the Idea, thats why I've the Moment. But the flaws (pathetic, crippled, lousy Search-Function, missing, missplaced Covers, bad Compatibility/connectivity to different DLNA-Servers...) are undeniable. I would prefer a major update very soon - to give me a reason, to keep my mouth shut in future.
I still like the Moment and I still see the potential with all the functions , but the product is not finished/ready yet. It pains me, after I spent a lot of my hard earned money in additional recent devices from B&O. B&O has droped their major skill, Quality!!
I can understand the frustration too. B&O forgot to produce a proper manual, they didn't teach their dealers in a proper way, B&O-Care don't response to customers questions in a proper way, they didn't anounced a honest schedule, when everything will be fixed. There are only rumors about this and this.
and after all : you all wondering why the dealers are afraid of the customers und why some of the buyers think they were cheated in regards to the flaws above?
At this Point the Moment is at this status, only a perfect Device for Deezer and TuneIn'- Listeners. If you have a big collection on your NAS - you should wait. I really hope that B&O will suck it up and will start to deliver on their promisses and will start to act like the company, that we've all adored for such a long time.
My post above is crippled too. Some words are missing, some deleted phrases are still in the post. I can not edit a post with the iPad. Is this normal? You see, sometimes I can not even write in a proper way - and I am weeping about B&O's Quality Issues.
It's late in Singapore - therefore so sorry.
cheers Beroli
Beroli: I can understand the frustration too. B&O forgot to produce a proper manual, they didn't teach their dealers in a proper way, B&O-Care don't response to customers questions in a proper way, they didn't anounced a honest schedule, when everything will be fixed. There are only rumors about this and this.
Beroli: My post above is crippled too. Some words are missing, some deleted phrases are still in the post. I can not edit a post with the iPad. Is this normal? You see, sometimes I can not even write in a proper way - and I am weeping about B&O's Quality Issues. It's late in Singapore - therefore so sorry. cheers Beroli
Yeah, normal. The Apple fan boys will tell you Apple knows better than you do what functionality you need. With Apple it's never a bug, it's a feature!
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Beroli:Hi MM congrats to you 5555's Post. nice Number! Cheers Beroli
I have tried really hard to like the Moment - it is great idea, great design, but is hamstrung by the terrible interface - you have no idea how difficult it is for me to admit this. This product needs a new interface and fast. The BeoMusic app on my iphone is a better way to control the Moment. In trying to develop a new music concept they have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Perhaps they should have tried to update the BeoSound 5 concept with some of the icloud deas of the moment. Perhaps I need to give it more time but at the moment I am so so disappointed...
Hopefully change is coming but I cannot believe they did not do a better job in the first place.
propaganda:I have tried really hard to like the Moment - it is great idea, great design, but is hamstrung by the terrible interface - you have no idea how difficult it is for me to admit this. This product needs a new interface and fast. The BeoMusic app on my iphone is a better way to control the Moment. In trying to develop a new music concept they have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. Perhaps they should have tried to update the BeoSound 5 concept with some of the icloud deas of the moment. Perhaps I need to give it more time but at the moment I am so so disappointed... Hopefully change is coming but I cannot believe they did not do a better job in the first place.
propaganda: Hopefully change is coming but I cannot believe they did not do a better job in the first place.
The BeoMusic app is the interface for controlling the new B&O audio multiroom functions in the NL-network.
The BS Moment (with PatternPay and MoodWheel) is a new/different way of interacting with music in a B&O (multiroom) setup.
Obvisiously some people don't find this way of interacting usefull - and want a more direct way of choosing what to listen to.
The BeoMusic app in conjunction with the BS Essence (2nd Generation) might be a more suitable way for these.
Both 'ways' will have their fans - and both 'ways' should be/are offered from B&O.
And then there is the possibility of using 3rd Party apps (DLNA/AirPlay based) with the B&O products. But that won't give you the seemless integration with the B&O hardware/network like the native B&O products - no 'one touch access' or direct controlling of the hardware.
Everyone should have/find their own preferences.
However, there is no need for anyone to defame the preferences of other people, or declare a product a failure, because he personally doesn't need or like it.
I do not think I am defaiming anyone or anything. I am expressing my frustration with this product. No need to be so defensive. Clearly there are some issues with the Moment - there is no point in pretending otrherwise. I am quite literally the last person to criticise B&O products but this is to my mind a great disappointment. MM please do not insult me just because I do not agree with you.I have purchased this product with the best of intentions - it just does not work that well.
propaganda: I do not think I am defaiming anyone or anything. I am expressing my frustration with this product. No need to be so defensive. Clearly there are some issues with the Moment - there is no point in pretending otrherwise. I am quite literally the last person to criticise B&O products but this is to my mind a great disappointment. MM please do not insult me just because I do not agree with you.I have purchased this product with the best of intentions - it just does not work that well.
Im am not defensive - just trying to explain that the concept of the BS Moment works perfectly for some people.
I am sure some of those, who have bought the Moment, have expected another product - and thus have been disappointed.
Imo there is nothing wrong with the Moment - people just don't want to see, that it is not the product they thought it would be.
BeoBoy68:@ Propaganda Ask your dealer to refund your money and buy a BeoSound Essence 2nd generation with an IPad mini.
Ask your dealer to refund your money and buy a BeoSound Essence 2nd generation with an IPad mini.
That might be a solution - if the dealer can accept that.
Tip: configure the iPad (Mini) to run only one single app - the BeoMusic.
This way you can secure, that the iPad won't be 'misused' for other purposes, than for controlling the Essence respectively the multiroom products on the NL.
Don't think I have not already thought of that, but that is hardly an elegant solution for my home. Perhaps B&O should come up with a case for an iPad mini that could be mounted on the Soundheart? BTW I saw this solution in a large deoartment store running a Sonos system - that worked better than the Moment does at the moment. The probelm with this solution is that it takes B&O design out of the equation.
The problem with the moment to my mind is not patternplay or the mood wheel, but the poor interface in doing normal things such as selecting an album, or an artist, poor handling of artist photos or album covers, or having a a proper "what is playing now" screen complete with album cover as in the BS5. There is clearly a problem with the Moment given the debate here. I understand the desire for a solution to connect to the cloud and merge local and cloud based media. But as I said earlier they seem to have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. I also do not see why they cannot have a BeoMusic app running on that hardware as at very least an option.
I am in the same boat as Propaganda with my Moment, the concept is brilliant but the interface is poor and limited.
I find it disappointing that for a brand, that is so visually aware, the album artwork shown on the display, which is a key element of the system, is badly cropped and poor quality.
I really hope that the forthcoming software update rectifies this and some of the other issues that have been previously mentioned, and gives the Moment an interface that delivers an outstanding customer experience.
Best
Paul
propaganda:Perhaps B&O should come up with a case for an iPad mini that could be mounted on the Soundheart?
Perhaps this is the business case to bring back the A3 but without speakers and more elegant?
We haven't seen the Moment yet on this side of the pond, but the reports I read here are anything but impressive. I think the Moment was rushed out far before it was ready, I've seen this in a lot of consumer electronic firms. And it never ends well.
It also shows the difficulty in doing proper software development, especially by firms that don't do it as a matter of course (and even they have their hiccups). I suspect a lot of it originates with not having a decent set of design requirements from the beginning, poor systems engineering, and was followed up with bad software development and testing. If you don't specify right up front, you don't know how to test, and you get things like this. Software development is particularly difficult in the area of user interfaces, as you need human factors input in addition to just more common technical disciplines.
One can only hope they work the bugs out, because the concept is brilliant. But it needs to be more than just the mood wheel, it has to do the kinds of things people want like proper artwork, searching, etc. If it works well, when my BS9000 finally goes tango uniform it would be high on my list as a replacement.
Jeff: One can only hope they work the bugs out, because the concept is brilliant. But it needs to be more than just the mood wheel, it has to do the kinds of things people want like proper artwork, searching, etc.
One can only hope they work the bugs out, because the concept is brilliant. But it needs to be more than just the mood wheel, it has to do the kinds of things people want like proper artwork, searching, etc.
This is exactly the issue. It is as though the focus was on the grand idea of the mood wheel and cloud connectivity but forgetting the other ways people interact with their music. Perhaps we are in a transitional period, however I sincerely hope B&O can improve the UI.
I have to agree with propaganda. We both own the Moment and we both intended to use the Product as it was advertised by B&O. Nobody tells you in advance, before you buy the product, that the Moment can not handle Music-Collections bigger than 10k, forget about 20k Titles, that the Moment will need Days to process your Music, that the Moment won't work properly with different Servers than Twonky, that the Moment restarts if you scroll to fast between different artists, that the device sometimes don't show the covers embedded in the Music-Files, that Deezer start to stutter or that in the worst case you have to start the whole first setup routine again, because the device isn't responsive anymore
Beroli: I have to agree with propaganda. ..............................Finally please stop telling everyone, that they should have bought something different from B&O, because this is no help at all and it starts to make people like me only angry and frustrated. Do you or B&O really believe that this will push any further sales in a positive way? Cheers Oliver
I have to agree with propaganda. ..............................Finally please stop telling everyone, that they should have bought something different from B&O, because this is no help at all and it starts to make people like me only angry and frustrated. Do you or B&O really believe that this will push any further sales in a positive way?
Well said, you post entirely captures the usage issues some/many owners are experiencing and having some one who doesn't own the device repeatedly telling those who do they are wrong isn't at all helpful or informative.
Ban boring signatures!
Puncher: Beroli: I have to agree with propaganda. ..............................Finally please stop telling everyone, that they should have bought something different from B&O, because this is no help at all and it starts to make people like me only angry and frustrated. Do you or B&O really believe that this will push any further sales in a positive way? Cheers Oliver Well said, you post entirely captures the usage issues some/many owners are experiencing and having some one who doesn't own the device repeatedly telling those who do they are wrong isn't at all helpful or informative.
+ 1
And I'm as much a fan of B&O as anyone, but even I can recognize when the emperor has no clothes. What they do well I'll sing the praises of from the hilltops, but this doesn't appear to be such a product.
How can this piece of high profit rubbish of been 'rushed' onto the market when it was supposed to have been launched last Autumn? What a true disgrace.
Yeah, even worse than the initial iPhone map debacle!
I have become so angry and frustrated with all the glitches; constant re-boots and missing and badly presented cover art, that on Saturday I put my Moment back in its box.
I shall bring in out again when the software update is released, when hopefully the vision that the Bang & Olufsen marketing team promotes will become a reality.
I feel quite disorientated when using the Moment - I feel B&O should tackle some what appear to be simple fixes to move forward.
1. Identify a specific NAS drive and ensure that the product works flawlessly using it. Then we could get a drive that is guaranteed to work with the Moment. Strangely you cannot use a BeoMaster5 unless the BeoSound5 is connected - go figure!
2. Fix the problems with Album covers not displaying properly. Stop using thumbnails when better artwork is available.
3. Fix the whole Artist artwork problem - they display on an erratic basis. Let the user populate this if desired. Stop using the blurred effect or make it an option.
4. Have a "playing now" screen using the Album cover as in BS5. I find is disorientating to fliick up from the play queue to the top screen that usually shows a completely unrelated Artist/Album to that which is playing - not good. The whole Playlist/Artist/Discover screen should reflect that patternplay is being used.
5. A decent Search function - on all details - Artist/Album/Song not just Artist
6. Have a proper volume display/indicator on screen - the colour change idea does not work.
Just my thoughts...
liberal:I shall bring in out again when the software update is released, when hopefully the vision that the Bang & Olufsen marketing team promotes will become a reality.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
What I do not understand is that those, who have had these baaaad experiences with their BS Moment, still cling to it?
If I had had just haft the troubles with a piece of gear, like e.g. Beroli has had with his Moment, I'd taken the device to the dealer and had left it there demanding my money back.
And how come some Moment owners are happy with theirs, and others not?
Millemissen: And how come some Moment owners are happy with theirs, and others not?
Surely this is a question that should trouble B&O greatly?
I love B&O products and am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on the Moment as I love the concept and the execution bar certain aspects of the UI. The problems are not insurmountable - so I will wait a little.
As I understand it B&O know all about these issues and weren't happy with the software developers so are now employing a company in California to do a re-write.