ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
liberal: I have become so angry and frustrated with all the glitches; constant re-boots and missing and badly presented cover art, that on Saturday I put my Moment back in its box. I shall bring in out again when the software update is released, when hopefully the vision that the Bang & Olufsen marketing team promotes will become a reality. Paul
I have become so angry and frustrated with all the glitches; constant re-boots and missing and badly presented cover art, that on Saturday I put my Moment back in its box.
I shall bring in out again when the software update is released, when hopefully the vision that the Bang & Olufsen marketing team promotes will become a reality.
Paul
@ Paul
Please don't think I am negative; It is more realistic.
Bang & Olufsen will not update seriously the Moment
(exception for multirooms this summer).
It cost too much to update every year the software.
I am sure Bang & Olufsen will stop the production of the BeoSound Moment,
because some BeoDealers don't want sale it and customers don't want buy it.
The BS Moment was the last Audio System Designed in Denmark.
Tue Mantoni, BeoCustomers want explanations now ?
BeoBoy68: am sure Bang & Olufsen will stop the production of the BeoSound Moment,
am sure Bang & Olufsen will stop the production of the BeoSound Moment,
Do you have some inside information as the basis of this statement? I surely hope that this isn't the case. B&O seemingly have invested a lot of money and resources that they need to recoup. Not having a modern audio master available for sale is not the answer to B&O's problems.
If B&O thought that european customers' dissatisfaction was loud, wait until they release something in the States which isn't the best it could be.
I, for one, am cautiously optimistic.
Dear MM,
european customer warranty law is not everywhere. There is a "lemmon law" in Singapore since 2 years and even with this soft law, it is extreme difficult to exchange a product or get your money back. I really, really like my dealer here in Singapore. He is the only one and he doing his best to serve his customers. He diddn' advertised and praised the BS moment. He had only the Informations given from B&O and trustes them too. He bought a moment for himself to test, how to use it, because the informations from B&O are very rare.
these are the reasons why I can't bring the device back and demanding my money back as I could/would do it in germany. the only thing what I can do is warning other customers here and explain what troubles they might have to face, when they own this device and intend to use it as B&O had it advertised.
Cheers Beroli
I hope that with the new software development team on the case that the UI will drastically improve, I seem to remember that initially my Beosound 5 had a few software problems which were overcome.
I'm going to keep my fingers crossed and see what the August update brings..........
And how come some Moment owners are happy with theirs, and others not?
MM
- maybe they don't have a bigger than 10k titles, well sorted, completly tagged Music-Collection - allready paid for or stored on their BS 5 system
- maybe they are fine with the mix just provided by Deezer and TuneIn only
- maybe they run Twonky on their PC/Mac' while they are constantly ON
- maybe the own a DLNA-Server with a Twonky-Implementation (most of the new DLNA-Servers over all brands don't have Twonky anymore, because the DLNA-protocoll is quite clear - thats why other streamingdevices/players are completely fine and quick showing all informations instantly - except the BS-Moment) Twonky needs about 5 Minutes to process more than 23k Titles on a NAS and showing all titles including covers, playlists.... But if you point the BS-Moment to the same Twonky-Server, the Moment needs Days to process it and then most of the Titles, playlists , covers are missing, gone) If I point any App on my Phone to the Twonky-Server they show everything (regardless of IOS/Android-Devices)
- maybe they are mostly easy listeners, who don't want to choose a complete album/artists/genre, or don't need/want to listen to a Album with the track in a right order (even if B&O is promissing they could do it, if they want to)
- maybe they face the same problems like me too, but hoping, that B&O will fix it very soon and therefore decided not to complain - yet
- maybe some of them surrender or gave up to complain (it seems - mostly the B&O prefered customers nowadays)
After the rescheduled update and the screenshot (see 2 pages above - there will be no upcomming over-all-search of NAS - only search over Deezer and TuneIn-Channels) - please allow me to complain and to raise my concerns.
If B&O fixes the current problems, I would gladly join the "choir of B&O-praisers and fanboys" again.
I only have 3000 titles, so no problem there
Quite happy with Deezer and TuneIN. Mostly use the MoodWheel, or double click an artist in my own collection t o have the Moment to randomly play the songs from that artist.
Yes I do.
Twonky access my NAS through my iMac
This is probably a good description of me
Nope, I have forwarded my concerns to BeoCare and they say that they have forwarded them to the product team.
Nope. Not surrendered
Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2 Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset
BeoBoy68: Bang & Olufsen will not update seriously the Moment (exception for multirooms this summer). It cost too much to update every year the software.
I would not agree.
The beauty with modern technology, that is software driven, is that you in fact can update the product frequently at reasonable cost. The company I work with have a newly launched app on AppleTV and we update that app in roughly two weeks intervals. That app was far from perfect when we first launched it. We now listen to our customers, and have an agile development team (maybe 3-4 people) that provide updates with e.g. tweaks in the UI.
I would hope (and believe) that this is the way B&O will approach the Moment.
Hiort, therfore the BS-Moment is in this status the perfect match/fit for you. Therfore you don't seemed frustrated like me - and I am really happy for you.
What I really like about your posts, they are honest and based on experience. I never had to read stuff like "you should never have bought it" or " you just hold it in a wrong way"
And how come some Moment owners are happy with theirs, and others not?- maybe they don't have a bigger than 10k titles, well sorted, completly tagged Music-Collection - allready paid for or stored on their BS 5 system
Yes, I have a dedicated Mac mini music server running only Twonky 8.0.3 & Audirvana+ 2.1.1. Look at the titles count 22016... (I'm using Audirvana+ especially for the ML-link.) Itunes software is removed from this server.
Hmm, Its a very nice addiction... to discover new music and remembering my childhood in listening to foreign radiostations on shortwave, now at great quality...- maybe they run Twonky on their PC/Mac' while they are constantly ON
Off-course, that's the meaning of a server...
No found problems in album-covers yet, metadata and covers done with Yate.
Using mostly during the day, the own build playlists or patternplay on the Moment. When I'm alone at home doing some album listening.
But I have to be honest, I'm in waiting for the Multiroom update and a better search function
"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
... titles count 22016... (I'm using Audirvana+ especially for the ML-link.) Itunes software is removed from this server.
Chris
great tipp with Audivana+. I will surely try it. Getting rid of iTunes (even if it is promoted and implemented by B&O - bold choice - but it seems to work) :-)) Thank you! :-))
I even bought last week a new mac Mini for the purpose to serve the BS Moment, after my attempts with a Twonky-Raspberry-Server combined with my 2 year old Synology-412+ NAS failed.
I know that a Server must be always on - but after I own a NAS, it bothered me a great deal to need a second device (Mac) always switched ON. B&O promoted the BS Moment with any DLNA-compatible-NAS, not only Twonky.
Now I have to use the same setup as yours but with additional costs. There was no need for a second server. I was completely happy with my all my music, videos, pictures in one place. With the new setup I have to overlook a second database and have another power-eating device at home.
btw: how much time needed the BS Moment to process your 22k-Database, are your playlists in the right order (1,2,3,4.... Instead of 10,9,8,7), how big are your playlists? Mine are separated by genres.So R&B and Blues are quite big.
Isn't it strange that we have to find out by ourselfes which setup will finally work?
Chris: Itunes software is removed from this server. "
Itunes software is removed from this server.
have you completely removed iTunes or don't you use itunes - but it is still on your mac?
Beroli:Now I have to use the same setup as yours but with additional costs. There was no need for a second server. I was completely happy with my all my music, videos, pictures in one place. With the new setup I have to overlook a second database and have another power-eating device at home. btw: how much time needed the BS Moment to process your 22k-Database, are your playlists in the right order (1,2,3,4.... Instead of 10,9,8,7), how big are your playlists? Mine are separated by genres.So R&B and Blues are quite big.Isn't it strange that we have to find out by ourselfes which setup will finally work?Cheers Beroli
Perfectly right about the additional cost in running a second server, next to the Mac Mini I'm running also a Windows Server 2012 R2 for all documents, emailserver and backup 24h a day, so I can't say green is my environmental colour. My two daughters having all Windows gear needed for high school and the lady of the house needs this server for her work.Why not a cloud solution? Working with and in the cloud looks a nice and environmental friendly thing but I prefer to control myself all sensitive data and keep it privately. And this comes at a cost.Can't say how much time it cost to build my database as it is now, I build a completely new data structure on the Mac in slowly adding albums over months, after I checked and corrected the files/albums with Yate. Biggest playlist in genre, have been made myself for the Moment in M3U is the one for Jazz, must be something 3000-3500 files.About the right order, opening and viewing this genre playlist: starts A-Z ordered as album artist on the Moment, when I play the list it plays immediate in shuffle play, thats exactly what I want.When I search and open any album on the Moment it shows me the music files to the right of the cover in a sequence 1-10. As an example, I open America in finder(explorer) the first number on the directory list is 01 Riverside.flac, next is 02 Sandman.flac... in viewing this album on the Moment it gives me also Riverside as first and Sandman as the next number. See beneath... Some pics, sorry for the not so good quality!
It’s easy to uninstall iTunes in Windows, but a bit trickier for those running OS X. But its completely removed and Audirvana+ is running with its own engine.
The only negative point, you cannot use the iTunes remote on the iPad for Audirvan+, you have to remotely connect on your Mac mini to change a number or album. In a wait for an Audirvana remote app to come.
Hi Chris,
thank you for the quick reply and your informations. I enjoyed reading about the amount of different servers ;-) in your place. The order of tracks inside the albums are correct, but the Moment don't show the right order in my Playlists. But I could live with it, since I listen to the playlist-titles mostly in the shuffle as you do. I use Teamviewer to control the mac mini. works flawless even on the iPad.
You wrote about Audirvan+ with a special ML-Link extension. I had a look an their homepage, but I didn't found anything about ML-Link. Maybe I am to tired after the whole search for the right Moment-Setup.
I have organized my whole collection - Gracenote-compatible and exactly in the same way you recommended it in your earlier posts. The embeded covers in each file are not bigger than 500x500 - easy to swallow for any device. Therefore I am sure, that my files arent the reason for the troubles I face with the Moment.
IMO, It seems that B&O integrated something like yate or a other search gracenote-allgorythm into the Moment. Maybe this is the reason, why the Moment needs Days to process large music-collections. This is maybe a good way for small, badly organized, untagged Collections - but in your and my case it is a waste of time and CPU-usage. It would be really great if I could switch off the processing, to force the Moment to use the Informations embedded inside the tracks.
After you have removed iTunes, you switched off the automatic update?
IMO, It seems that B&O integrated something like yate or a other search gracenote-allgorythm into the Moment. Maybe this is the reason, why the Moment needs Days to process large music-collections. This is maybe a good way for small, badly organized, untagged Collections - but in your and my case it is a waste of time and CPU-usage. It would be really great if I could switch off the processing, to force the Moment to use the Informations embedded inside the tracks. Maybee this algorythm is the way B&O choosed, to please customers instead of forcing them to organize/tag their music-files.
Beroli: Hi Chris, thank you for the quick reply and your informations. I enjoyed reading about the amount of different servers ;-) in your place. The order of tracks inside the albums are correct, but the Moment don't show the right order in my Playlists. But I could live with it, since I listen to the playlist-titles mostly in the shuffle as you do. I use Teamviewer to control the mac mini. works flawless even on the iPad. Ok, looks the same as me with the ordering, I have no problem on the playlists as they are exactly as I wanted them: in shuffle play. Luckily for me, it would give me greater concern if it was not so. Imagine always starting with the same music number. You wrote about Audirvan+ with a special ML-Link extension. I had a look an their homepage, but I didn't found anything about ML-Link. Maybe I am to tired after the whole search for the right Moment-Setup. I did not explain myself very well in the use in Audirvana+. First... No multiroom possibility with the Moment means it could only deliver music to my V1 combo for now. The Mac mini server stands nearby my NL/ML converter and is also connected by HDMI to an Arcam DAC who is connected to my NL/ML converter's aux input. This delivers sound to my ML-link. Audirvana is playing through this DAC with its own engine and serves the music to the ML-link as a interim solution before Multiroom comes. If I was using Audirvana+ in combo with iTunes I could off-course use the iTunes remote on any iPad to change music. Because I choose to remove it from the mini and use Audirvana+ in standalone, I change music or playlist with VNC on the iPad on the mini or use screen sharing on my iMac. There is a dedicated remote app from Audirvana+ in development for iPad, actually Damien the French developer promised it. I have organized my whole collection - Gracenote-compatible and exactly in the same way you recommended it in your earlier posts. The embeded covers in each file are not bigger than 500x500 - easy to swallow for any device. Therefore I am sure, that my files arent the reason for the troubles I face with the Moment. +1 IMO, It seems that B&O integrated something like yate or a other search gracenote-allgorythm into the Moment. Maybe this is the reason, why the Moment needs Days to process large music-collections. This is maybe a good way for small, badly organized, untagged Collections - but in your and my case it is a waste of time and CPU-usage. It would be really great if I could switch off the processing, to force the Moment to use the Informations embedded inside the tracks. Correct for 100% in this, they made it for medium music collecters, most likely not for us if you look at the advertising they do for moodwheel or patternplay use. My feeling is that this device never specifically targeted to our audience as a dedicated collector, more to the Deezer audience. Anyhow, It does what I expected, and if I wanted more then I had not bought this. On the other hand, I bought it not for myself but for the enjoyment and ease of use of the whole family, and if the woman is satisfied with the boy... After you have removed iTunes, you switched off the automatic update? Actually, by now in reading you would have thought yourself the correct answer... I always enjoyed in my carrier updates, which have been invented to resolve bugs and create new ones... Oh God, give me that Multiroom update for some new...
Ok, looks the same as me with the ordering, I have no problem on the playlists as they are exactly as I wanted them: in shuffle play. Luckily for me, it would give me greater concern if it was not so. Imagine always starting with the same music number.
I did not explain myself very well in the use in Audirvana+. First... No multiroom possibility with the Moment means it could only deliver music to my V1 combo for now.
The Mac mini server stands nearby my NL/ML converter and is also connected by HDMI to an Arcam DAC who is connected to my NL/ML converter's aux input. This delivers sound to my ML-link. Audirvana is playing through this DAC with its own engine and serves the music to the ML-link as a interim solution before Multiroom comes.
If I was using Audirvana+ in combo with iTunes I could off-course use the iTunes remote on any iPad to change music. Because I choose to remove it from the mini and use Audirvana+ in standalone, I change music or playlist with VNC on the iPad on the mini or use screen sharing on my iMac. There is a dedicated remote app from Audirvana+ in development for iPad, actually Damien the French developer promised it.
+1
Correct for 100% in this, they made it for medium music collecters, most likely not for us if you look at the advertising they do for moodwheel or patternplay use. My feeling is that this device never specifically targeted to our audience as a dedicated collector, more to the Deezer audience. Anyhow, It does what I expected, and if I wanted more then I had not bought this. On the other hand, I bought it not for myself but for the enjoyment and ease of use of the whole family, and if the woman is satisfied with the boy...
Actually, by now in reading you would have thought yourself the correct answer... I always enjoyed in my carrier updates, which have been invented to resolve bugs and create new ones... Oh God, give me that Multiroom update for some new...
Best regards Chris
Chris: Correct for 100% in this, they made it for medium music collecters, most likely not for us if you look at the advertising they do for moodwheel or patternplay use. My feeling is that this device never specifically targeted to our audience as a dedicated collector, more to the Deezer audience.
Correct for 100% in this, they made it for medium music collecters, most likely not for us if you look at the advertising they do for moodwheel or patternplay use. My feeling is that this device never specifically targeted to our audience as a dedicated collector, more to the Deezer audience.
And that is (one of) the reason(s), why I decided not to buy it for myself
Since I already had the opportunity to 'play with it', before it was launched, I already knew, that it was not my device*
However, I am (still) convinced, that it would be the right product for a lot of the potential B&O costumers.
* This might change, when/if the search function gets improved and multiroom shows its potential - time will tell.
Right now my favourite combo would be Essence 2. Gen/BeoMusic on a dedicated iPad Mini - since PatternPlay/MoodWheel is not my cup of tea.
P.S. I don't mind running the Twonky Server on my MacMini - it is on 24/7 anyway.
There is a tv - and there is a BV
If that's so why don't they change there advertisement??
Chris, MM
This assumption I don't agree, It would be a "cheap" excuse for B&O. Why should they develop a device with a mood-wheel which covers 50% of your own music-collection (inner and half of the middle ring), why developing/offering a connection to a DLNA-Server, why is B&O is advertising the Itunes-Support and describing in the Vision behind the Moment the perfect combination/merge of a cloud (deezer, TuneIn) and a local source? It makes no sense to do all this if your target group is only the Cloud-Deezer-User. In this case the programming could be done much easier. It seems some definitions from B&O are different. Just remember: They still promote the S8-Speaker-Set as a streaming device, altough you will need a additional Device to stream music to the speakers. If B&O never targeted the music collector, they should ask before the sale and stop promoting the BS-Moment as the holy grail for everyone - or - they should offer to all the frustrated customers a full refund.
My verdict still stands. B&O did a terrible job regarding the software of the Moment. I would have rather spent my Money for a new B&O-Speaker instead for a new mac mini as a additional server. I did this only, because I want to use the Moment instead of putting it back in the box until B&O is finally able to keep up with their promisses. In cases like mine, B&O should deliver a solution very soon, or they will start losing more customers and their trust forever.
Could someone please delete my double posts. It seems my iPad is not made for this kind of work.
Beroli:I would have rather spent my Money for a new B&O-Speaker instead
The more I become used to using the HomeMedia function on my BV, the more I'm comfortable purchasing another pair of good B&O speakers instead as well. However much I want a dedicated B&O music device separate from my current BV centered setup, and separate from any iDevice. I do have some trepidation on this one if and when it is released here in the States.
Beosound Stage, Beovision 8-40, Beolit 20, Beosound Explore.
Chris Townsend:Just give the Beosound 5 a touch screen, the ability to utilise various streamers like Spotify or Apple music and play from its tb hard drive, and I'm in.
And a decent, OS agnostic tablet interface to same. Seems like the Moment is a system for people who aren't that into music. Every person I know who's into music has huge collections of their own, but then they're older. Maybe it should have been a Play product for the young, streaming only set. Only I think they are even less tolerant of buggy s/w, unless its made by Apple in which case they will think the fault is with them not the product.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Just found this on the fccid site: LINK
You can see that the heart of the moment tablet is a Tegra 3 SoC from nvidia. It was introduced in 2011 and I've only heard of bad user experience with devices using this chipset.I have an old (2011) asus android tablet with exactly the same core. It feels like the moment. It is slow, it crashes and reboots sometimes but has a much better display :-)
Jeff:Every person I know who's into music has huge collections of their own
Together, my wife and I have close to 40,000 tracks in our combined libraries, and we're adding to it every couple of weeks here and there.
I'm afraid to ask how /if it could handle a collection of that size. I do believe the Moment may help us "rediscover" our own music collections, but the time and effort it would take to get it working right, seems to be a barrier to adoption in my household at the moment (pardon the pun). I'm hoping that the new SW will open up this device's potential.
Eclipse 65V1-32Beosound M5Essence MK2BLI
Seanie_230:I love the concept of the moment with Internet radio and deezer (was spotify) Now if you put that inside beosound5 that would look absolute amazing and I would swap immediately.
The concept is good, the design is shocking and lazy (Beomotion's link above clearly shows what most already suspected, it is someone else's tablet inards dropped into a hastily designed case with the wheel control stuck on the side) and it is more than apparent that the software is way short of the mark - and for this they want to charge you £1800!!
They make Apple look like Robin Hood!
Ban boring signatures!
Chris Townsend:The software crashes, not the chipset. Ie Android
The problem is that software and hardware are tied together.For each SoC the manufacturer (nvidia) will give the OEM (B&O or one of their suppliers) a board supporting package (BSP) containing drivers etc. My experience has shown that nvidia didn't do a great job on this and OEMs can't really change this...
Sal: Jeff:Every person I know who's into music has huge collections of their own Together, my wife and I have close to 40,000 tracks in our combined libraries, and we're adding to it every couple of weeks here and there. I'm afraid to ask how /if it could handle a collection of that size. I do believe the Moment may help us "rediscover" our own music collections, but the time and effort it would take to get it working right, seems to be a barrier to adoption in my household at the moment (pardon the pun). I'm hoping that the new SW will open up this device's potential.
Scalability is one of the bugaboos of bad software design, well, any software design actually. If they didn't set the requirements properly up front, it would be no wonder the system doesn't scale. It's also possible they did say X number of files and the s/w designers screwed it up, but I'm betting it's the former.
Chris Townsend:...that every airline in the world opted to use the Apple IPad due to its better build and stability. One chose a Windows EFB and...
Let me complete it further, 'It goes BOOM and show you a blue screen'.
lonfred:Looks like I will skip my plan to buy a Moment even after the SW update. Now my hope is to the Essence 2 and multiroom function SW for the Essence 2 together with NL/ML converter.
Raeuber:Finally the Moment is the worst product B&O ever made and it has also great effects for the reputation of this brand. And I am very sad about this.
@ Aussie Michael,
thank you very much for your emphaty, but I have to say something to save the honour of the salesman you meet. If you play deezer-tracks on the Moment without having activated a Deezer Premium subscribtion, all tracks are limited to 30 Seconds.
@vlohjr1
the Music App is limited by the tracks shown on the Moment. If something is missing there it won't show in the App. If the playlists are empty on the Moment, they are empty in the App as well. Sometimes the App won't find the Moment and you have to do a restart. Afterwards everything is working again. without zhe App the Moment would be much worse. The search in the App on the iPad is much, much, much... More better than the search on the Moment.
Beroli: Sometimes the App won't find the Moment and you have to do a restart. Afterwards everything is working again. without zhe App the Moment would be much worse. The search in the App on the iPad is much, much, much... More better than the search on the Moment.
I experience only a working Music app. If it doesn't appear to work, the reasons in my case is quite simple. The iPad is not connected to the same, right network.