ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I am not sure about the veracity of information regarding a software re-write for the Moment. On the B&O product page for the Moment it lists an American company Tectonic (GoTectonic.com) as responsible for the "Interaction, Visual and Motion" Design rather than B&O themselves. So who knows what is actually coming. It seems that B&O did not do an in-house job after all.
Even more depressed re: the Moment....
Tectonic works for/with a lot of companies.
One of these is Samsung!
Now tell me, that they are responsible for all, that is Samsung branded.
They worked for Amazon as well.....
Of course every company for their products let things do by other companies, that have more expertice. (With one exclusion: Apple - they buy the companies they need!).
This is nothing new, really - most companies have always bought physical component for their products from other companies - and still do.
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
Millemissen: Tectonic works for/with a lot of companies. One of these is Samsung! Now tell me, that they are responsible for all, that is Samsung branded. They worked for Amazon as well..... Of course every company for their products let things do by other companies, that have more expertice. (With one exclusion: Apple - they buy the companies they need!). This is nothing new, really - most companies have always bought physical component for their products from other companies - and still do. MM
This is true of car companies too. Most car companies now make only the shell and buy everything else in from specialists.
If you have a diesel there's a good chance it has an engine actually made by Fiat. And most diesels, in turn, have inlet manifold and swirl valve systems made by German company Pierberg. And most of those systems are notorious for failing, particularly BMW's who in their wisdom asked for stainless steel swirl flaps instead of plastic.... So that when a valve fails it is injested by the engine causing thousands of pounds worth of damage.
Sorry about the Off topic rant, but it is true that most manufacturers are now totally dependent on each other, and when there is a major design fsult it csn go on for years and affect many many products by different manufacturers.
Graham
dueno:- when you do a change in itunes new playlist or album you have to erase all in the moment and one day to analysis the library
This is, to me, likely the most unacceptable of all of the bugs folks have stated here, and to my knowledge the first I've heard of this.
Likely the one which would cause me not to consider a device like this at all. I do understand the need for the Moment to analyze for the mood wheel, etc. But a small change should merely be compared/added to the last full analysis. Surely this is low hanging fruit for the next version of software to address.
Sal:This is, to me, likely the most unacceptable of all of the bugs folks have stated here, and to my knowledge the first I've heard of this. Likely the one which would cause me not to consider a device like this at all. I do understand the need for the Moment to analyze for the mood wheel, etc. But a small change should merely be compared/added to the last full analysis. Surely this is low hanging fruit for the next version of software to address.
What exactly is your point here. Tectonic are responsible for the UI of the Moment as it stands regardless of who elese they may consult to.
Raeuber:This will also be a feature of Windows 10: If you create a new excel sheet you have to create all existing sheets again.
This remark falls in a category like: "what is the color of grass? .........."cow".
propaganda: Millemissen: Tectonic works for/with a lot of companies. One of these is Samsung! Now tell me, that they are responsible for all, that is Samsung branded. They worked for Amazon as well..... Of course every company for their products let things do by other companies, that have more expertice. (With one exclusion: Apple - they buy the companies they need!). This is nothing new, really - most companies have always bought physical component for their products from other companies - and still do. MM What exactly is your point here. Tectonic are responsible for the UI of the Moment as it stands regardless of who elese they may consult to.
When you ask someone else to do a job for you, you usually tell them, what you expect from them, how the main concept should be.
Besides, the BeoSound Moment is more than just a UI.
Imo - the concept of the BS Moment originates in the ideas, that B&O have worked at for some years now - no matter which company made the actual UI.
May I ask you, what is your point of posting this already known fact here?
Millemissen: When you ask someone else to do a job for you, you usually tell them, what you expect from them, how the main concept should be.
Which was my point about the importance of thorough, testable requirements and documentation, something which in the commercial world is not often done as well as in aerospace and such. Hard to tell if this is a case of bad requirements, bad execution, or more likely a combination of both. It's possible the hardware was chosen with a certain file size structure in mind and hiccups with larger, it's possible it's s/w, it's possible it's both. All that's readily apparent is that there are problems.
Jeff
I'm afraid I'm recovering from the BeoVirus.
Carolpa:This remark falls in a category like: "what is the color of grass? .........."cow".
Millemissen: When you ask someone else to do a job for you, you usually tell them, what you expect from them, how the main concept should be. Besides, the BeoSound Moment is more than just a UI. Imo - the concept of the BS Moment originates in the ideas, that B&O have worked at for some years now - no matter which company made the actual UI. May I ask you, what is your point of posting this already known fact here? MM
I was not aware of that fact. Another poster suggested that a new American irm had been drafted in to rewrite the Moment software. I wondered whether this information was accurate or merely a rumour. I think that is a fair reason to post.
I also did not quite get your post. I do now - it was a fair point, although it seemed somewhat argumentative to me. Sometimes I find your comments quite abrasive and unhelpful.
Hmmmm, I'm certainly hoping that the entire package is taken into consideration with the Moment. Treating the UI and core functionality as two separate entities means that even if the UI is improved, bugs with the core functionality go unaddressed. I'm hoping that the company in California have the authority to address both, rather than merely the UI.
One example of my point: A smooth and usable UI doesn't mitigate the need for a complete device "restart" or similar with minor changes to the libraries it has access to.
BeoMotion:Just found this on the fccid site: LINK You can see that the heart of the moment tablet is a Tegra 3 SoC from nvidia. It was introduced in 2011 and I've only heard of bad user experience with devices using this chipset. I have an old (2011) asus android tablet with exactly the same core. It feels like the moment. It is slow, it crashes and reboots sometimes but has a much better display :-)
BeoBoy68: Unbelievable that Bang & Olufsen can sell so expensive a poor tablet with a 4 years old technology !
Unbelievable that Bang & Olufsen can sell so expensive a poor tablet with a 4 years old technology !
As far as I am aware B&O is not selling any tablets.
They are selling a NL-based BeoSound, which has a detachable control unit.
Millemissen:As far as I am aware B&O is not selling any tablets. They are selling a NL-based BeoSound, which has a detachable control unit. MM There is a tv - and there is a BV.
MM c'mon man - this is a basic tablet based system. The whole 'thing' will of cost less than £280 (450Dollars) to make including the DAC. Cheating customers with this kind of rubbish is a disgrace. I sincerely hope that BANG&OLUFSEN do go bankrupt. They've been incredibly dishonest with this bag of rubbish. If there's one thing that i've learnt in business and through life, it's be honest and respect your clients and give your 100%. BANG&OLUFSEN have truly shown to do the opposite. They're a true disgrace and my word, my opinion of Tue has certainly gone down after he signed off this product.
I truly feel genuine sorrow for any person who has bought into this system. They should demand their money back and shop elsewhere.
Even if I am not happy with my BS Moment, I really don't hope, that B&O will go bankrupt. I had no trouble to pay good money for the Moment at all, even if B&O glued some third-party-parts together - as long the final product will work as promissed and advertised. But it doesn't. Therefore I am angry and frustrated. Therefore I feel cheated. I love my BeoLab 18, the new Remote One, the A2, A8, H6 and the many other things I own from B&O, even if I don't know who delivered the inside-parts in the end. They work as assured - thats all what I want. In a global market you can not produce anything by yourself. The screen in my B&O TV is from Samsung, Phillips provided the screen for my first BeoVision. I never had the Idea to compare the Beovision to any Samsung or Phillips-TV, because the BV came with additional great functions like Multiroom, PUC, Motorstand... - and yes a BV delivered the core basic functions as well.
Nowadays it is different, the BS-Moment does not deliver basic functions of a Streaming-Device, like showing track-embedded-covers from every DLNA-Server (not only Twonky) instantly. The file-processing duration is a bad joke. More than !!!!ONE!!! day for 24k Tracks - and finally without/wrong Covers, missing titles.... Yes Twonky works better with the Moment regarding the covers, but the processing is still disgraceful for B&O. Most of the time you will need to force the BS Moment to another day-eating processing, if you decide to change a playlist or if you add/remove some Albums/Artists.
Even if I know Apple would never provide his iOS/ Tablet as a Modul for the Moment, there are plenty good Android-Modules with decent Software out there. They show every track including all track-informations instantly. They can handle Spotify and Deezer as well - but in the end I don't want to use a normal Android-Tablet as the main B&O Soundsystem. Therefore I was looking forward to the Moment. So really I enjoyed having a look on the Inner-parts of the Moment in the document provided above - what I don't enjoy is the final unfinished product. I like the design of the Moment -live with it -Tastes are different :-)
B&O had a hard financial time in the past. Therefore I don't understand why B&O destroys the groomed good product image on purpose, by throwing this unfinished, buggy, faulty and lame BS-Moment at their customers - when so much is at stake.
Cheers Beroli
just for MM: for the Easy-only-Deezer/TuneIn-Listeners with small music-collections on a Twonky-based-Server - the Moment is a perfect match, no need to improve everything. The other complaining guys just "hold the Moment in a wrong way" and "don't understood" the product in the first place. Yeah!!!
Paul W:MM c'mon man - this is a basic tablet based system. The whole 'thing' will of cost less than £280 (450Dollars) to make including the DAC. Cheating customers with this kind of rubbish is a disgrace. I sincerely hope that BANG&OLUFSEN do go bankrupt. They've been incredibly dishonest with this bag of rubbish. If there's one thing that i've learnt in business and through life, it's be honest and respect your clients and give your 100%. BANG&OLUFSEN have truly shown to do the opposite. They're a true disgrace and my word, my opinion of Tue has certainly gone down after he signed off this product.I truly feel genuine sorrow for any person who has bought into this system. They should demand their money back and shop elsewhere.
I just want to share my experience with the Moment. I love it. No reboots.
First I started with DLNA. And yes, the Moment had problems with the covers. But why using DLNA? I started to add all of my albums as favourites in deezer. Only a few artists were not available. In sum I have only 50 songs still on my NAS available via DLNA. This is working very well.
I hope that in future it is possible to search directly in deezer with the Moment. And we will see a better integration in NL/ML configurations. Now the speakers in the main room switch on when you hear music in any link room.
All in all it is possible to use it now. And an update is on the way as I read hear in the thread.
Frank
BeoBoy68: LOL @ MM your way to defend Bang & Olufsen is really laughable !
LOL
@ MM
your way to defend Bang & Olufsen is really laughable !
You may laugh - then maybe we can at least agree on laughing at each other
Ahum... anybody notices the V1, BV11... update today?
"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
Ahum... anybody notices the NL/ML converter ... update from June 11?
Chris: Ahum... anybody notices the NL/ML converter ... update from June 11?
that is the release date of the sw. The update was today, as the updates for the BV
It's the start for the new multiroom (at least the BLC update). No new update on the Moment, anyway I didn't seen it
Chris:Ahum... anybody notices the V1, BV11... update today? "Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
Aussie Michael: Chris: Ahum... anybody notices the V1, BV11... update today? "Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth." I just did the update on the avant. Took a little while. Was for the picture on when listening to a picture source and for the hbbtv "
Chris: Ahum... anybody notices the V1, BV11... update today? "Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
I just did the update on the avant. Took a little while. Was for the picture on when listening to a picture source and for the hbbtv "
there is more:
You can choose to leave the screen on with Homemedia f.e.
an issue with music delay has been handled; new item in setup-product intergration
Addition: after 30 min the Hub of the Moment started to fill with info from the JRiver server. It seams to go really quick now.
So some problems seams to been solved
Beroli maybe you should (re)check your local network, maybe you have some issues there.
Hi Carolpa,
my local gigabit network works flawless with stable transferrates. That was the first thing I checked, after it took the Moment over a Day to process the music-folder. It takes about 40 Minutes to copy 160GB from my NAS to the macmini - so, no issues there. Maybee, next week I should try JRiver too. The only thing I don't want to do is buying license after license just to find out, that the BS Moment won't work again. I am really gratefull for your advices. Thank you and please keep us posted about your longterm experience. :-)
Cheers Oliver
Triggered by this discussion I retried today JRivern. The Moment reads the content of the server within 10 minutes (approx. 16.000 files).
Really? You do see a check mark in the Moment-settings after 10 Minutes - for 16.000 files? I had this before and afterwards I realized that the Moment simply stoped the processing and most of the files/playlists from the server were still missing - but the checked mark showed up. They only thing what was filling up, where the tracks from deezer (including artists and album-covers). Please check if you didn't only see the content of Deezer instead your files. You would be the first customer who could get the processing of 16k files done in 10 Minutes on the Moment.
The covers are shown on the BeoMusic app right away.
I am sure you meant the deezer covers or you were connected in the BeoMusic-App to the JRiver-Server instead to the Moment. The BeoMusic App is not the Moment. Most important is that all your music (including your Server) is shown on the Moment.
The Soundhub takes more time. How long? No info displayed after 15 min! So presumably the way the heart and the hub communicate will be the cause of most issues.
I don't understand what you mean. The Soundheart and the hub/base are the same. The Moment is the combination of the Hub/Soundheart and the Jukebox (Tablet). You can only see the progress on the Jukebox. If you put back the settings-plate on the Soundheart before you see the check-mark on the Jukebox-Display under processing, you will mostly interupt the initial processing. The Moment will try to proceed with the processing, but slower. Foremost it will only add the changes in Deezer. Therefore I don't know how you could recognize a difference between the soundheart and the BeoMusic-App. Maybee you choosed on your BeoMusicApp your JRiver-Server instead the BS Moment. I am sure, if you choose the BS Moment in the App you will see, that your content is still missing on the Moment after 10 Minutes.
So the solution would be to fit a tweaked Android version of the BeoMusic app in the Soundhub.
that is what I mean. The processing of a Server is almost instantly done by every app regardless of iOS or Android. Only the Moment is doing some "magic" processing that will need days.
Since the start I used the BeoMusic app more than the Moment itself. It is simpler and has a good UI.
If I intended to use my iPad/BeoMusic-App as a main input for a Soundsystem, I would have never bought the BS-Moment. Sadly the BeoMusic-Apt is nowadays the only usefull crutch to use the Moment. And yes I dont understand, why they didn't used the same UI for the Moment.
cheers Beroli
Trust Me......there's nothing wrong with The Beosound Moment (lol)
That's right, they are the funny characteristics that you get with BANG&OLUFSEN products ;)
Chris: Ahum... anybody notices the V1, BV11... update today?
I already made a thread on that!
Beroli: Carolpa replied on Thu, Jun 18 2015 10:54 AM Triggered by this discussion I retried today JRivern. The Moment reads the content of the server within 10 minutes (approx. 16.000 files). Really? You do see a check mark in the Moment-settings after 10 Minutes - for 16.000 files? I had this before and afterwards I realized that the Moment simply stoped the processing and most of the files/playlists from the server were still missing - but the checked mark showed up. They only thing what was filling up, where the tracks from deezer (including artists and album-covers). Please check if you didn't only see the content of Deezer instead your files. You would be the first customer who could get the processing of 16k files done in 10 Minutes on the Moment. Note: as I wrote, I see the files on the BeoMusic app in that time. The Hub needs more time! Almost all albums I checked are complete, including embedded covers. I notice two who were not complete. But they are dsf files (SACD)which have to be converted to pcm by the Server. I presume there is something other going on with these. I hardly have used Deezer with the Moment until now. Yes they can be seen right away but they are a very small minority The covers are shown on the BeoMusic app right away. I am sure you meant the deezer covers or you were connected in the BeoMusic-App to the JRiver-Server instead to the Moment. The BeoMusic App is not the Moment. Most important is that all your music (including your Server) is shown on the Moment. NO the embedded covers in the files from JRiver. The Moment is the Soundheart; the Soundhub is just the UI. Thus the BeoMusic app has more similarities with the hub than the heart.On the moment the music files are shown in the BeoMusic app you can control the music. For the hub it takes somewhat longer. But even that seems to be at a reasonable pace. The Soundhub takes more time. How long? No info displayed after 15 min! So presumably the way the heart and the hub communicate will be the cause of most issues. I don't understand what you mean. The Soundheart and the hub/base are the same. The Moment is the combination of the Hub/Soundheart and the Jukebox (Tablet). You can only see the progress on the Jukebox. If you put back the settings-plate on the Soundheart before you see the check-mark on the Jukebox-Display under processing, you will mostly interupt the initial processing. The Moment will try to proceed with the processing, but slower. Foremost it will only add the changes in Deezer. Therefore I don't know how you could recognize a difference between the soundheart and the BeoMusic-App. Maybee you choosed on your BeoMusicApp your JRiver-Server instead the BS Moment. I am sure, if you choose the BS Moment in the App you will see, that your content is still missing on the Moment after 10 Minutes. No in my opinion the actual "sound processor" is the Soundheart. And it works quite quick to collect the information from the Server. As said before after about 10 minutes I can access my complete collection in the BeoMusic app. The hub is only a UI for the Moment. I see my complete collection and I can access all the files, at least I did some testing and I always got instant music (taken in account the normal time between a switch from one album to the next) So the solution would be to fit a tweaked Android version of the BeoMusic app in the Soundhub. that is what I mean. The processing of a Server is almost instantly done by every app regardless of iOS or Android. Only the Moment is doing some "magic" processing that will need days. Only part of the Moment; the Soundhub; but even that seems fair with my settings and system Since the start I used the BeoMusic app more than the Moment itself. It is simpler and has a good UI. If I intended to use my iPad/BeoMusic-App as a main input for a Soundsystem, I would have never bought the BS-Moment. Sadly the BeoMusic-Apt is nowadays the only usefull crutch to use the Moment. And yes I dont understand, why they didn't used the same UI for the Moment. cheers Beroli
Note: as I wrote, I see the files on the BeoMusic app in that time. The Hub needs more time! Almost all albums I checked are complete, including embedded covers. I notice two who were not complete. But they are dsf files (SACD)which have to be converted to pcm by the Server. I presume there is something other going on with these. I hardly have used Deezer with the Moment until now. Yes they can be seen right away but they are a very small minority
NO the embedded covers in the files from JRiver. The Moment is the Soundheart; the Soundhub is just the UI. Thus the BeoMusic app has more similarities with the hub than the heart.On the moment the music files are shown in the BeoMusic app you can control the music. For the hub it takes somewhat longer. But even that seems to be at a reasonable pace.
I don't understand what you mean. The Soundheart and the hub/base are the same. The Moment is the combination of the Hub/Soundheart and the Jukebox (Tablet). You can only see the progress on the Jukebox. If you put back the settings-plate on the Soundheart before you see the check-mark on the Jukebox-Display under processing, you will mostly interupt the initial processing. The Moment will try to proceed with the processing, but slower. Foremost it will only add the changes in Deezer. Therefore I don't know how you could recognize a
difference between the soundheart and the BeoMusic-App. Maybee you choosed on your BeoMusicApp your JRiver-Server instead the BS Moment. I am sure, if you choose the BS Moment in the App you will see, that your content is still missing on the Moment after 10 Minutes.
No in my opinion the actual "sound processor" is the Soundheart. And it works quite quick to collect the information from the Server. As said before after about 10 minutes I can access my complete collection in the BeoMusic app. The hub is only a UI for the Moment.
I see my complete collection and I can access all the files, at least I did some testing and I always got instant music (taken in account the normal time between a switch from one album to the next)
Only part of the Moment; the Soundhub; but even that seems fair with my settings and system
see my remarks
Paul
koning: Trust Me......there's nothing wrong with The Beosound Moment (lol)
@ Carolpa
now I'm getting your point. You see your JRiver-Server-Content much earlier on the BeoMusic-App, while the ui is still processing the files. Right? Therefore you think that there is just something wrong about the communication between the hub and the tablet (ui)? But regardless of this known issue, you are sure that using JRiver could be a better, quicker solution than Twonky in regards of the first-setup processing.
I will try it 😎
Beroli: @ Carolpa now I'm getting your point. You see your JRiver-Server-Content much earlier on the BeoMusic-App, while the ui is still processing the files. Right? Therefore you think that there is just something wrong about the communication between the hub and the tablet (ui)? But regardless of this known issue, you are sure that using JRiver could be a better, quicker solution than Twonky in regards of the first-setup processing. I will try it 😎 Cheers Beroli
Right! but maybe there is nothing "wrong" with the hub it self, then solemnly sw issues.
I do not have the impression it has something to do with Twonky. Note: that originally JRiver didn't work to my satisfaction when I started to use the Moment.
If I have time I will re-switch to Twonky. But I think/have the impression that the effect will be the same.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the try-period of JRiver is 30 days, so you'll have plenty of time. The PONO sw for MAC/PC will work also (search for it on the forum of JRIVER) it will work till September. In principle it is the same Media Server, but then only limited to Audio. To my knowledge it will do the trick also
regards,