ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
Incredible helpful post, Beroli! Thank you!
You are very welcome!
Yes, I know it's almost a book. But since I got only answers for the very first 11 Questions, I started to write down every thing, I wanted to ask/tell B&O. Therefore the file was groomed over weeks.
If you look at my previous post, it seems, that the BeoSound Moment is a very buggy device. I have to say it's not as terrible as it seems. I would say the BS Moment is sensitive. ;-) It needs a TWONKY-Environment - and only this. Only Twonky prepares a perfect fitting database for the BS Moment.
I tried really hard to push the Moment to its limit, to know, why the device is reacting slow, laggy or is crashing. Since there is no guide from B&O themselves available, I had to do endless first setup procedures. Now I know, these first setups aren't necessary every time. in the most cases a simple PIN-Reset is enough to revive the BS Moment. My BS Moment works flawless since 9 days without any crashes. All covers are there, some missing artist tiles are missing not because of deezer or gracenote. They are missing because some artists don't want to be in these databases or they are against the streaming business model. If I want to add new tracks , I do it in Deezer instead of any changes in my current Music-Collection. It spares a new processing of a database. The performance of the Moment depends very strong on a stable network, a well tagged music collection and a good portion of self control. You could say, if it run's - don´t touch it.
There will be a new BeoMusic App, therefore I am sure, there will be no further enhancements on the current version. the stated bugs and flaws are only shown above, because I wanted to save you some time instead of fiddling/altering/tagging your tracks.
i forgot to mention: If your own music collection is really big, with a lot of artists, the jukebox will need several reboots until it shows all artist covers. In the first days, you will recognize, that the Jukebox reboots out of the blue while scrolling/adding new artist tiles. That is normal. It seems that the Jukebox can handle/add only a "small" amount of new artist tile in every session. If the cache is full, the jukebox will reboot, but the new added artist covers remain and are still there.
Cheers Beroli
Thx beroli,
Is it al software related those bugs or is the hardware not 100% to
koning: Thx beroli, Is it al software related those bugs or is the hardware not 100% to
It seems that all issues are software related. It is not necessary to have the fastest tablet on the market in this system. I am sure, that B&O-programmers thought that the Twonky-Server is using just a simple DLNA protocol. Therefore they customized the BS Moment to be a perfect fit with a Twonky-Server. But the Twonky-Server is not a pure DLNA-Server. Twonky is doing a lot of processing and some enhancements. Because of this B&O development-strategy, the most customer-complaints are based on the simple fact, that they have a NAS without Twonky.
The second thing is, that B&O had not the courage to set some ground-rules for every interested customer. It is necessary that your music-database needs to be tagged perfectly. Most customers don´t have a perfect tagged database. Some of them have different file-formats, without any tags or any informations inside - in the worst case -there is not even the right filename. It seems to me, that B&O decided to not bother his luxury customers with details and they try to fix this customer-related-issue with a day eating processing on the very first start. This processing is in my opinion the reason, why the BS Moment is fully occupied with useless tasks. Any weak device can nowadays handle a DLNA-Server in seconds. If B&O would tell the customer, that it is mandatory to tag the tracks in advance with genre, title, artist..., by themselves - B&O could skip some processes on the way. The amount of processing is to much. I am sure, even the latest iPad would crash with this amount of tasks.
B&O should hand out a setup-guide to every customer in advance - before the sale. They should have known that better - after their experiences with the BeoSound 5
If you rent a car, the station-agent will ask for your drivers license - but B&O would hand over the car, even if they know that you will never be able to drive.
But, I am sure there will be improvements. B&O is damned to success. :-))
Thank you, Beroli - great work :-)
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
@Räuber
You will never buy a BS Moment!!!
You simply expect too much - I guess more, than you'd probably expect from any other company.
My dealer told me that nasservers even with twonky still don't work.
He told me to wait till september
Had least he is honest!
Beroli:It seems to me, that B&O decided to not bother his luxury customers with details and they try to fix this customer-related-issue with a day eating processing on the very first start. This processing is in my opinion the reason, why the BS Moment is fully occupied with useless tasks. Any weak device can nowadays handle a DLNA-Server in seconds. If B&O would tell the customer, that it is mandatory to tag the tracks in advance with genre, title, artist..., by themselves - B&O could skip some processes on the way.
I do think that this was a bit of marketing muster though. Imagine telling customers, even implying that the product won't work "perfectly" unless your music collection was in some sort of consistent standard state - when most "normal" people don't know what "tagging" is.
I know that's implausible, but "normal" people nowadays want their products to "just work" after taking whatever it is out of the box. Especially a music streamer costing more than $2700US.
That being said, I think it would behoove B&O to tell customers information which could help them get their libraries in some sort of "compatible" state to at least explain why the device needs such a long time to get started.
Beroli:It seems that all issues are software related. It is not necessary to have the fastest tablet on the market in this system. I am sure, that B&O-programmers thought that the Twonky-Server is using just a simple DLNA protocol. Therefore they customized the BS Moment to be a perfect fit with a Twonky-Server. But the Twonky-Server is not a pure DLNA-Server. Twonky is doing a lot of processing and some enhancements. Because of this B&O development-strategy, the most customer-complaints are based on the simple fact, that they have a NAS without Twonky. The second thing is, that B&O had not the courage to set some ground-rules for every interested customer. It is necessary that your music-database needs to be tagged perfectly. Most customers don´t have a perfect tagged database. Some of them have different file-formats, without any tags or any informations inside - in the worst case -there is not even the right filename. It seems to me, that B&O decided to not bother his luxury customers with details and they try to fix this customer-related-issue with a day eating processing on the very first start. This processing is in my opinion the reason, why the BS Moment is fully occupied with useless tasks. Any weak device can nowadays handle a DLNA-Server in seconds. If B&O would tell the customer, that it is mandatory to tag the tracks in advance with genre, title, artist..., by themselves - B&O could skip some processes on the way. The amount of processing is to much. I am sure, even the latest iPad would crash with this amount of tasks. B&O should hand out a setup-guide to every customer in advance - before the sale. They should have known that better - after their experiences with the BeoSound 5 If you rent a car, the station-agent will ask for your drivers license - but B&O would hand over the car, even if they know that you will never be able to drive. But, I am sure there will be improvements. B&O is damned to success. :-))
BeoNut since '75
Sal: I do think that this was a bit of marketing muster though. Imagine telling customers, even implying that the product won't work "perfectly" unless your music collection was in some sort of consistent standard state - when most "normal" people don't know what "tagging" is. I know that's implausible, but "normal" people nowadays want their products to "just work" after taking whatever it is out of the box. Especially a music streamer costing more than $2700US. That being said, I think it would behoove B&O to tell customers information which could help them get their libraries in some sort of "compatible" state to at least explain why the device needs such a long time to get started.
Hi Sal I do understand what you mean, but I would say the BS Moment is not just a simple streaming device. They try to categorize the music in different moods. Therefore they have to do some processing. B&O wrote me “The process is long (at is has a chain of actions: browse folders, identify track, do analysis of their mood classification, etc). It takes about 20 seconds per DLNA track. There are no different speeds among the SoundHeart and the Jukebox. The whole process works as a combined system between the two… We are looking into providing more/better feedback to the user regarding the harvesting progress.“
Now imagine a customer who provides files like track01.mp3, track02.mp3 .... . If he is lucky, at least the folder name shows a hint of the Artist/Album. If B&O tries to identify or estimate with some kind of elaborate software algorithm, the correct title, the hard- and software tasks are heavy. If the customer want's a perfect database, perfect covers, artist tiles..., he has to do something too. B&O could never organize his messy music-collection for him. My database is perfectly tagged, but I was frustrated, to see the same artist tile more than 1,2 or 3 times, because B&O separates every Co-Artist in a new artist cover (eg. Elton John & Celine Dion, Elton John & ...). To avoid this, I had to cripple my own database, by deleting every Co-Artist. Manually :(
Therefore, if B&O would tell the customer something like: if you need the mood wheel or pattern play, your music must be tagged like ...., that would be fair, Maybe they would sell less units but they could focus the analysing/processing on the mood category instead of estimating a unknown track/artist/genre. This is the only way to simplify necessary tasks.
The Moment works perfectly out of the box, if you use only Deezer and TuneIn. It even streams a well tagged music collection from a Twonky Server right from the very first start.
Unfortunately not every customer has a Twonky-NAS or is willing to buy one, if they already own a NAS from a other brand.
Beroli: Therefore, if B&O would tell the customer something like: if you need the mood wheel or pattern play, your music must be tagged like ...., that would be fair, Maybe they would sell less units but they could focus the analysing/processing on the mood category instead of estimating a unknown track/artist/genre. This is the only way to simplify necessary tasks. The Moment works perfectly out of the box, if you use only Deezer and TuneIn. It even streams a well tagged music collection from a Twonky Server right from the very first start. Unfortunately not every customer has a Twonky-NAS or is willing to buy one, if they already own a NAS from a other brand.
You're right, Beroli. I should have chosen my words more carefully. Yes, for deezer and tune in, the Moment does work perfectly out of the box. And your suggestion about a disclaimer by B&O about some inconveniences if customers used their own libraries is very valid. I'd think dealers may want to ask customers why they're buying the Moment, and if the customer mentiones that they already own a NAS, dealers should be trained to really delve a bit more deeply to set appropriate expectations about what this device can do, and what it needs the customer to do in order to have a pleasant experience.
koning:My dealer told me that nasservers even with twonky still don't work. He told me to wait till september Had least he is honest!
He was talking about the 'major' update in september 2015.
Everything's gonna be allright.......i hope so😂
Beroli: koning: Thx beroli, Is it al software related those bugs or is the hardware not 100% to It seems that all issues are software related. It is not necessary to have the fastest tablet on the market in this system. I am sure, that B&O-programmers thought that the Twonky-Server is using just a simple DLNA protocol. Therefore they customized the BS Moment to be a perfect fit with a Twonky-Server. But the Twonky-Server is not a pure DLNA-Server. Twonky is doing a lot of processing and some enhancements. Because of this B&O development-strategy, the most customer-complaints are based on the simple fact, that they have a NAS without Twonky. The second thing is, that B&O had not the courage to set some ground-rules for every interested customer. It is necessary that your music-database needs to be tagged perfectly. Most customers don´t have a perfect tagged database. Some of them have different file-formats, without any tags or any informations inside - in the worst case -there is not even the right filename. It seems to me, that B&O decided to not bother his luxury customers with details and they try to fix this customer-related-issue with a day eating processing on the very first start. This processing is in my opinion the reason, why the BS Moment is fully occupied with useless tasks. Any weak device can nowadays handle a DLNA-Server in seconds. If B&O would tell the customer, that it is mandatory to tag the tracks in advance with genre, title, artist..., by themselves - B&O could skip some processes on the way. The amount of processing is to much. I am sure, even the latest iPad would crash with this amount of tasks. B&O should hand out a setup-guide to every customer in advance - before the sale. They should have known that better - after their experiences with the BeoSound 5 If you rent a car, the station-agent will ask for your drivers license - but B&O would hand over the car, even if they know that you will never be able to drive. But, I am sure there will be improvements. B&O is damned to success. :-))
Hi Beroli
Really useful information and very helpful to me- I've been struggling to tidy up my metadata and it does seem to help. Are you able to offer any tips on this issue?
I have a lot of classical CDs which are two volume sets. I have ripped them to iTunes in Apple Lossless format and am using the latest version of Twonky server to stream to the moment on my Macbook Pro. The discs all appear with the correct metadata in iTunes and the tracks are all in order yet in Twonky the track order is all wrong and it also mixes up the tracks on the two discs. Any insights you have would be very appreciated!
Thanks for the suggestion but the audio quality from Deezer is not yet CD quality and I do indeed have a lot of material not available on Deezer.
dueno:You can use the moment only for deezer and tunein radio and an airport expres on the line in for your itunes library.
The line-in connected APE is just a source on the NL then.
And certainly not integrated with the PatternPlay/MoodWheel!
It is a workaround to avoid the 'cludder' of integrating iTunes stuff, that some may experience.
Not an elegant solution - but a workaround, and you would need an iOS device in addition.
I would suggest this solution for integrating AirPlay with the NL network - if you need that.
Not just for playing iTunes stuff - make your Twonky server do that!
Millemissen: The line-in connected APE is just a source on the NL then. And certainly not integrated with the PatternPlay/MoodWheel!
My plan for whenever I choose to pull the trigger on the Moment is to use the line in for connecting my Beogram 6500 Turntable, simple, easy, and the Moment can act as an all-round audio hub.
I have my CD player connected to the Line In at the moment as the track order issue is really preventing me from integrating my iTunes library via Twonky with Deezer etc- what I thought the Moment would do!
Can anyone advise if my problem is still a metadata issue within my iTunes library or is there a bug in the way Twonky is reading it?
Living Room: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-2 (Center), Beolab 9 (Fronts), Beolab 8000 (Rears), no Subwoofer. Screen: Sony KD-85XH9096Dining Room: Beosound Essence MK II with Beolab 4000 on stands, fed by Amazon Echo Show 8Home Cinema: Beosystem 4, Beolab 7-4 (Center), Beolab 1 (Fronts), Beolab 4000 (Rears). Projector: Sony VPL-HW55Home Office: Beosystem 3, Beolab 7-4, Beolab 5000, Screen: Sony KD-55XH9005 on Beovision 7-40 stand, ML to Beosound 9000 MK3 and Beosound 5/Beomaster 5 (1 TB SSD version)Bedroom: Sony KD-65XH9077, Beosound Essence MK II with Beolab 6002 and Beolab 11 (all white, wall-mounted)
In storage: Beolab 5000/Beomaster 5000 (1960s).
Skiingtrumpeter: dueno:You can use the moment only for deezer and tunein radio and an airport expres on the line in for your itunes library. I have my CD player connected to the Line In at the moment as the track order issue is really preventing me from integrating my iTunes library via Twonky with Deezer etc- what I thought the Moment would do! Can anyone advise if my problem is still a metadata issue within my iTunes library or is there a bug in the way Twonky is reading it?
Hi Skiingtrumpeter,
at this time, there is no solution for the "tracks-in-wrong-order"-issue.
Unfortunately - this is one of the bigger bugs in the software of the BS Moment. Even if your tracks are perfectly tagged - the moment will mix up the order. If you have Albums with only one CD, all tracks should be shown the right order. But If you have more than 1 CD in a Album and you have it sorted like: Artist/Album/CD1 ... CD2 , the Moment will show the tracks in this order: Track1 (from CD2), Track1 (from CD1), Track2 (from CD2), Track2 (from CD1)... - even if the Twonky-Interface is showing the whole Album in a perfect order. I tried different ways to find a solution.
The only way to overcome this issue is to combine all CD´s of one Album in one Folder (Artist/Album/01 - artist - title.mp3...). Therefore you have to retag/rename the tracks/files of CD2, CD3... with consecutive numbers to the first CD (if the cd1 ends with track 17, you must retag/rename the first track of CD2 to the Tracknumber 18... . That is a lot of work and I decided against this solution. It would be better, if B&O offers a fix for this bug instead of crippling your own (proper) database.
Using Deezer is only a work around but a solution.
When it comes to Playlists, the issue is even bigger. All tracks will be mixed up and not shown in the BeoMusic-App. I can not start a playlist from the BeoMusic-App. If I want to start a playlist, I have to use the BS-Moment-Jukebox instead.
In my opinion, everyone of you should forward all known/ experienced bugs to their dealers and to BeoCare and demanding a solution from them. Even if they tested the Device with a 40.000 track-Database from a NAS/DLNA-Server (as they told me), I can not fathom, why they didn´t recognized this really obvious bug.
Beroli:Even if they tested the Device with a 40.000 track-Database from a NAS/DLNA-Server (as they told me), I can not fathom, why they didn´t recognized this really obvious bug
J
Beroli: Skiingtrumpeter: dueno:You can use the moment only for deezer and tunein radio and an airport expres on the line in for your itunes library. I have my CD player connected to the Line In at the moment as the track order issue is really preventing me from integrating my iTunes library via Twonky with Deezer etc- what I thought the Moment would do! Can anyone advise if my problem is still a metadata issue within my iTunes library or is there a bug in the way Twonky is reading it? Hi Skiingtrumpeter, at this time, there is no solution for the "tracks-in-wrong-order"-issue. Unfortunately - this is one of the bigger bugs in the software of the BS Moment. Even if your tracks are perfectly tagged - the moment will mix up the order. If you have Albums with only one CD, all tracks should be shown the right order. But If you have more than 1 CD in a Album and you have it sorted like: Artist/Album/CD1 ... CD2 , the Moment will show the tracks in this order: Track1 (from CD2), Track1 (from CD1), Track2 (from CD2), Track2 (from CD1)... - even if the Twonky-Interface is showing the whole Album in a perfect order. I tried different ways to find a solution. The only way to overcome this issue is to combine all CD´s of one Album in one Folder (Artist/Album/01 - artist - title.mp3...). Therefore you have to retag/rename the tracks/files of CD2, CD3... with consecutive numbers to the first CD (if the cd1 ends with track 17, you must retag/rename the first track of CD2 to the Tracknumber 18... . That is a lot of work and I decided against this solution. It would be better, if B&O offers a fix for this bug instead of crippling your own (proper) database. Using Deezer is only a work around but a solution. When it comes to Playlists, the issue is even bigger. All tracks will be mixed up and not shown in the BeoMusic-App. I can not start a playlist from the BeoMusic-App. If I want to start a playlist, I have to use the BS-Moment-Jukebox instead. In my opinion, everyone of you should forward all known/ experienced bugs to their dealers and to BeoCare and demanding a solution from them. Even if they tested the Device with a 40.000 track-Database from a NAS/DLNA-Server (as they told me), I can not fathom, why they didn´t recognized this really obvious bug. Cheers Beroli
on the beosound 5 everything works perfect.
This is ridiculous!
I can't understand why some people here on the forum find this oke'.
We are almost 7 months further!
Thanks so much for clarifying this problem. Whilst it is bad news and very frustrating, not to mention mystifying why B and O did not pick this bug up- at least I won't waste any more time messing with the metadata to try to solve it. I will definitely take it up with my dealer although he doesn't seem to be at all well informed....
Not really worth a new thread, and not really B&O related or is it? It looked best to place in in here.
Before I went in vacation there where problems with Twonky version 7.2.7 on my mac mini after the last Yosemite update to version 10.10.4 from July 8. Using this Twonky version resulted in losing the connection with my Moment after 15 minutes running well.
In short: Remotely viewing the Mac mini showed me that Twonky was perfectly up and running, but I could not reach the browser-based control interface anymore, Twonky's UI page gives me no connection. Rebooting Twonky resulted in another 15 min. faultless session. Viewing the Twonky ini file showed no problems and port 9000 is open for the UI page.
I did not want to look into the Twonky community forum in finding a solution, so after two attempts of reinstalling Twonky 7.2.7 I tried another Twonky version 8.0.3 on the Mac. After 13 hours, Twonky is still up and running fine now. Looks like a Yosemite bug to me with the older 7.2.7 version.
"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
Hi Chris,
there is a Twonky Server-Version 7.2.8. Have you tried this version too? 7.2.7 had some issues with Yosemite from the very first start. As I wrote on page 14 - 7.2.8 and 8.0.3. are working well under Yosemite. Both of them still have troubles with the yosemite firewall. If you activate the Firewall, you have to allow after every restart of yosemite all incoming connections to the twonky server. The yosemite firewall is not able to save this setting - even if you create your own security-certificate for the twonky-server. (You will find many posts about this in the Twonky-Forum)
In general you could say: If you have trouble with any Software-Server on a mac/pc - try to switch of the firewall temporally, to evaluate the connection issues to the BS-Moment.
I like the Twonky-server. But this software is becoming of age. There are less and less NAS on the market with the possibility to install the latest Twonky-version. Therefore it would be wise from B&O, if they focus on the general/basic DLNA-Protocol (nowadays implemented in every NAS) instead of the improvement of a Twonky-BS-Moment-Setup only.
Just a reminder: Don´t forget to switch of the "refreshing" of the Twonky-Server in the settings. In some cases it will happen at the same time, when the BS-Moment is checking the server - with the result, that your music is going m.i.A..
Dear Beroli, absolutely agree with your kindly comments. Its for sure the July 8th update that was giving the trouble. Before that date it was running well on my only for music dedicated Mac mini (without firewall!), so its a bug Apple has to resolve in Yosemite (but when?).
I had the 8.0.3 version in my download page from a while ago, so I used it for a try. I did not find after a long well equipped holiday the courage to dig deep into the Twonky forum. Anyway, the problem looks to be resolved and Twonky is now running stable. I placed this fault on my diary for future investigation.
You brought up the older software B&O is recommending, and I'm completely agree that B&O would made it better priority nr. 1 to look on a overall DLNA use for the Moment.
Luckily are you, myself and offcourse more forum members not a noob or digital illiterate in computer soft- and hardware, but I can imagine that a lot of Moment buyers and visitors of the Beoworld forum will burst into problems with the Moment. That brought me to another thinking, would it not be interesting to have a 'Moment forum' also on Beoworld? This kind of problems and solutions would fit exactly into it.
Chris: That brought me to another thinking, would it not be interesting to have a 'Moment forum' also on Beoworld? This kind of problems and solutions would fit exactly into it.
That brought me to another thinking, would it not be interesting to have a 'Moment forum' also on Beoworld? This kind of problems and solutions would fit exactly into it.
That is an excellent idea!
Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2 Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset
Agree!
Hiort: Chris: That brought me to another thinking, would it not be interesting to have a 'Moment forum' also on Beoworld? This kind of problems and solutions would fit exactly into it. That is an excellent idea!
Dear Hiort, Chris & MM
sorry for kidnapping the initially joyful, great first posts of yours. I think it would be a good idea to have a central place on beoworld-forum for the BS-Moment as well. Usually I am not a "big" forum guy. Beoworld is my first & only... . At the beginning I was more active - out of selfish reasons. After a while I was really happy for all the great advices I found/got here. My breakthrough/favorite post was the post about creating the playlists. In the end I wanted to share some things too.
I am a optimist. Maybe we/admin should wait until the next big announced updates (BeoMusic App & BS-Moment) were released. Maybe everything will be solved then - and we all get bored to write about it without weeping ;-)
The app version is still in the jan/2015 version in the app store...
...but multiroom was announced today.
Was there an update for the Moment as well?
i see pictures online with the possibility of choosing where to play...
Millemissen: The app version is still in the jan/2015 version in the app store... ...but multiroom was announced today. Was there an update for the Moment as well? i see pictures online with the possibility of choosing where to play... MM
Sorry MM,
for my bad grammar, i got the information, that there will be more big updates for the BS-Moment in the future and a new BeoMusic App too. But I never got a exact date or month. Some dealers are telling me August, some of them September and some of them don't even know the actual version or release date.
So you are right the BeoMusic App in the App-Store is still unchanged.
Beroli
? And no update/s for the Moment as of today ?
Update to the above:
Maybe the Moment only shows the 'Link' entry, when more multiroom products are available in the setup?
Millemissen: Update to the above: Maybe the Moment only shows the 'Link' entry, when more multiroom products are available in the setup? MM
Just checked - no updates on the BS Moment today
Millemissen: Maybe the Moment only shows the 'Link' entry, when more multiroom products are available in the setup? MM
F.e. start the Homemedia on the BV, if the Moment has it own speakers it can JOIN the setting; the LINK will be shown
Eclipse 65V1-32Beosound M5Essence MK2BLI