ARCHIVED FORUM -- March 2012 to February 2022READ ONLY FORUM
This is the second Archived Forum which was active between 1st March 2012 and 23rd February 2022
I recently changed my Synology running a native DLNA server to QNAP running Twonky.
+ Music quality is much more superior with QNAP.
+ Album cover management is now consistent
- you cannot manage playlists with Twonky, but with Synology you could not refresh them other than with a Moment database rebuild
= MoodWheel bugs are same for me on both NAS
BS Moment, BS Core, BG 4002, BC 4500, BS1, BL18, BL19, BL8000 + RCV1, A6, M5, M3, A1, P6 (tks Botty), H5, TR1
mbolo01: Hi All - for those having a music library, how many of you have more than 10000 tracks in it?
Hi All - for those having a music library, how many of you have more than 10000 tracks in it?
I have 10641 tracks - just checked ;-)
MM
There is a tv - and there is a BV
19000 flac/24b flac
I have connected my Moment with the Synology DS214 and it works nearly perfect. Only with the cover display I have problems.
I can recommend the DS214.
Same here, with approx. 4000/5000 tracks. Only thing that doesn't work is multiroom between Moment and Essence mk2.
mbolo01: I recently changed my Synology running a native DLNA server to QNAP running Twonky. + Music quality is much more superior with QNAP.
What do you mean exactly ? Because I do not understand how the storage can have any influence over the quality of music §
Thanks for the answers, I have 31117 tracks and lot of Mood Wheel issues.
BeoCare asked be to lower down my library to 10000 and check if it brings more consistency to the Mood Wheel as I leaned that the Mood Wheel process does not manage more than 10000 tracks ....
Issues I have:
Pressing a point on the Mood Wheel starts by playing a tune but stops at the end of it or even before the end of it.Sometimes there is no tune to play next .... out of 31k tunes in the library is it shockingSometimes there are other tunes in the list, but no jump to the next one, music just stops.Sometimes it progress well but stops after an average of 10 tunes, I have to resume the streaming by pressing another point on the Mood Wheel, not why I expect from the deviceSometimes it plays well, in loop, and with too many repeats of the same track
Anybody with at least one of this symptoms? particularly with library > 10k
Cheers
Facel: mbolo01: I recently changed my Synology running a native DLNA server to QNAP running Twonky. + Music quality is much more superior with QNAP. What do you mean exactly ? Because I do not understand how the storage can have any influence over the quality of music §
My wife and I noticed a serious sound quality improvement when I started to use the QNAP NAS, and my wife usually does not pay attention to these details. The only component that could make the difference is the DLNA service which on Synology is a Synology product (Media Server) v.s. Twonky that I installed and used on the QNAP (QNAP has also its own DLNA media server that I have not tested yet).
Hope it is clearer.
I think you had transcoding of FLAC files into MP3 turned on, on your synology.
Apart for a MP3 transcoding done on the Synology, I do not see any reason why the Audio quality should be lower on a Synology NAs
Two weeks with the Moment; thought I'd share my experience and wish list..... (sorry for the long post)
Installation
I am using a Mac Mini (OSX Yosemite) with Twonky 7.2.7 downloaded from the B&O website
I made a separate folder (format: music / artist/ album(s) / songs) on the Mac Mini SSD with all the music for the Moment
Copied only the music I wanted to keep from Itunes folders; over the years I had collected lots of music I am no longer interested in (still 10k+ songs left)
Then decided to only leave music on the Mac Mini that was not available on Deezer; this left me with a little over 1000 songs / +/- 100 albums
On my computer I added all Deezer artists / albums / songs I have in my collection and wanted to keep
Everything worked straight away except............ album art (Twonky) and artist covers (from Deezer)
Fix album art
To fix the album art problem I used "Tag Editor" and embedded 500x500 covers to all songs with no covers (this is usually the case with Itunes libraries
This then showed around 80% of the covers in Twonky.
For the ones that were not shown (I have no idea why) I created jpeg files named them "folder.jpg" and copied that in the album folder
By then all album covers were shown in Twonky and after rebuilding the database on the Moment they were shown as well.
Fix artist art / covers
Quite a lot of local artist have no artist art. I have not figured out how to solve this; they are most likely not in the Deezer database
At one point no artist covers were shown at all. I tried resetting the Moment, Rebuilding the database, nothing worked.
Restarting Twonky did not help either. I disabled all "media receivers", rebooted everything and then finally all artist covers were shown.
Note: all this might sound relatively straightforward and in the end it was, but it did take me quite some time, resetting rebooting of Moment / Mac Mini / Twonky etc. In the process I also tried Firestream DLNA which is a new DLNA server you can buy in the Itunes app store. It is actually easier to use than Twonky and you can als immediately connect to the Itunes library. The reason I am not using it is that it album art seems to be downgraded to a much lower resolution and even with Firestream not all album art was shown (but much more than initially with Twonky). All in all it took me a full week to get everything right (working on it almost all evenings).
Performance
Sound: excellent both Deezer, Tunein and DLNA. I also like it that I can fine tune sound with bass / treble / tilt / loudness settings
(physical) Design: I ike it a lot (both sides, but especially the wooden) , but of course this is personal.
(software) Design: Beautiful, clean, modern, useful. Also like the vague edges of album & artist art (in most cases), Deezer artist art looks really nice.
Statbility: excellent, no drop outs despite working with Wifi. Huge difference compared to Airplay streaming I used before
Moodwheel. One of the reasons why I bought the Moment in the first place. Inner ring works great and lets you rediscover your own music library. It plays songs you would usually not listen to, but will in the context of a certain mood. I find the music really matches the moods with very little exceptions. Middle ring is a bit of a hit and miss. The songs still matches the moods, but some songs are so far off to my taste that I have to skip / dislike quite a few of them. Hopefully this gets better in the future as the Moment learns my taste. Also relatively little own music is played. Outer ring, Also a hit and miss; quite a few songs that match the moods but not within my favorites genres / musical taste. Note: I found this that explains Moods and Music through Gracenote; I guess Deezer / B&O make use of that as well.
PatternPlay. After one week of actual usage it is way too early to comment. Startup of PatternPlay does seem slow and in some cases unresponsive when system is in standby (anyone else has this problem? )
TuneIn. Great works as promised
Artist Radio. Great, works as any other artist radio
Discover. Great, works as promised and usually I can find what I am looking for.
General usage. I find the integration between the Moment, Deezer desktop and the Beoplay app excellent. Also like the integration between my own music and Deezer. I keep adding music from Deezer and I am using the Moment daily; I list to music much much more than with my previous set up.
Oddities
Some genres are grayed out. In my case "rock" "world" and "euro". I have no idea why this is and what the impact is.
In radio all Deezer mixes are shown. Anyone know how I can remove some of them?
Some artist / album from Deezer show no content; I suspect these are artist / albums from a playlist but I do not understand why there is no content.
Swiping through artists is not always completely fluid
Force check new content does not display wether it is doing that or not in "about". works well though
Playlist "recently added" does not seem to be updated
Wishlist
Ability to deselect certain genres, so no songs of the deselected genres are played in middle and outer ring of mood wheel.
Added advantage: you can then (for example) use the mood wheel purely with classical music.
Ability to select a % of own music/libary played in the middle ring
Two letter search for artist and possibly album
Ability to like songs that play through TuneIn (so they are added to your library). (of course B&O is depended on Tunein for this).
Ability to add artist art yourself in case Deezer cannot find it
Anti fingerprint coating
- Peter
Facel: Apart for a MP3 transcoding done on the Synology, I do not see any reason why the Audio quality should be lower on a Synology NAs
I didn't have audio transcoding active on the Synology as the Moment is able to read all the formats I have in my library, no need to use CPU for nothing, specially on a DS212j that does not have so much horse power deliver.
I understand your comments, I asked myself the same question, and I'm just sharing my initial and current feeling: after almost 7 months using the Synology as my DLNA source for the moment, my hears were caught by the sound difference once I moved to the QNAP and this was NOT what I was expecting initially in this NAS upgrade.
Could also be the latest Moment upgrade that happened at the same time, but I doubt it is the case.
Hi Peter
Thanks for your elaborate summary. Quick question, I also keep having problems with album art, artist despite the fact that I manually checked and sometimes changed all artwork in iTunes metadata before copying the library to my NAS (Synology 214+, which is working quite well).
I will certainly also try your solution. Did your solution also solve missing artist/album art in the Beoapp?
Best, Joost
JoostdenEngelsman: I also keep having problems with album art, artist despite the fact that I manually checked and sometimes changed all artwork in iTunes metadata before copying the library to my NAS (Synology 214+, which is working quite well) Best, Joost
I also keep having problems with album art, artist despite the fact that I manually checked and sometimes changed all artwork in iTunes metadata before copying the library to my NAS (Synology 214+, which is working quite well)
Joost - I had the Synology running as DLNA source for many months and I never managed to have a satisfying album cover rendering.
Either there was no cover while the Media Station was showing one, either there was the cover of another album.To attempt to fix it, my first step was to make sure that Audio Station was displaying covers, which is not always the case even if covers are shown in iTunes, then I have leveraged Metadatics, an OSX tool, to set or reset the album covers, then I was launching Audio Station to make sure there were displayed, then refreshing or rebuilding the Moment database to try to have them displayed, with no warranty. With more than 2200 album in my library, I gave up playing this painful game and my ticket with BeoCare on the topic never got answered with satisfying solutions.
My move to QNAP + Twonky drastically improved the situation.
JoostdenEngelsman: Hi Peter Thanks for your elaborate summary. Quick question, I also keep having problems with album art, artist despite the fact that I manually checked and sometimes changed all artwork in iTunes metadata before copying the library to my NAS (Synology 214+, which is working quite well). I will certainly also try your solution. Did your solution also solve missing artist/album art in the Beoapp? Best, Joost
In my experience, the fact that album art shows in Itunes does not necessarily lead to a satisfactory display in Twonky.
However, if album art is shown in Twonky it displays correctly on the Moment,
As said, I got 80% album art by embedding album art with a tool called "Tage Editor" and the other 20% by copying album jpg in the correct album folder and rename it to folder.jpg (so not the actual name of the folder, but just call them all folder.jpg and put them in the right folders).
This lead to 100% album cover display; on Twonky, Moment and the BeoPlay app. Of course it could be that just copying folder.jpg is suffice; I have not tested that.
In rare cases a folder.jpg does not display in Twonky but then you just have to try another one you can find; probably has to do with the format / resolution of the file.
Of course this is all with Twonky / Mac combination, so not 100% sure it will work in your set up.
Hope this helps.
Peter
Thanks. As you noted I'm not using Twonky but the Synology music server. Some art is shown but most isn't. I will try using the folder.jpeg solution and see whether it works.
PeterBOBP: Fix artist art / covers Quite a lot of local artist have no artist art. I have not figured out how to solve this; they are most likely not in the Deezer database At one point no artist covers were shown at all. I tried resetting the Moment, Rebuilding the database, nothing worked. Restarting Twonky did not help either. I disabled all "media receivers", rebooted everything and then finally all artist covers were shown.
Thanks of your elaborate post. I share many of your findings and also share your view on wishlist.
Regarding Artist art, this is served by Gracenote so you are not able to influence that content. (Other than making sure you spell the artist name correct)
Livingroom: BL3, BL11, BV11-46 Kitchen: Beosound 1 GVA, Beocom 2 Bathroom: M3 Homeoffice: M3, Beocom 2 Library: Beosound Emerge, Beocom 6000 Bedroom: M5, Essence remote Travel: Beoplay E8 2.0, Beoplay EQ, Beoplay Earset
Hiort: Regarding Artist art, this is served by Gracenote so you are not able to influence that content. (Other than making sure you spell the artist name correct)
I do not agree with you . You should be able to embeeded the Album covert (Artist Art) into the audio file in this case you swill be independant from
Gracenote or any other similar stuff.
Facel:I do not agree with you . You should be able to embeeded the Album covert (Artist Art) into the audio file in this case you swill be independant from Gracenote or any other similar stuff.
w5bno123:Everytime I try to read this thread on the app it keeps crashing, is this a coincidence???
yes, me too, long for the IOS app.
Hiort: Facel: I do not agree with you . You should be able to embeeded the Album covert (Artist Art) into the audio file in this case you swill be independant from Gracenote or any other similar stuff. I agree with you, that it would be good to add be able to att artist art. I was just explaining how it works today
Facel: I do not agree with you . You should be able to embeeded the Album covert (Artist Art) into the audio file in this case you swill be independant from Gracenote or any other similar stuff.
I agree with you, that it would be good to add be able to att artist art.
I was just explaining how it works today
I think they should do it like this:
- if artist art is not available on Gracenote and album/song is stored on local server retrieve artist picture from local folder if available (not sure if Twonky supports this)
Dear BeoSound Moment Fellows,
just for your information. 2 days ago Apple rolled out his latest OS X - El Capitan. Therfore I was "forced" to do a "real-world"-test on my dedicated BeoServer (mac mini) solely used with the BeoSound Moment.
If anyone is hesitating because the danger to destroy the fragile, long groomed perfect setup of his own, I can assure you - everything is fine without a new factory-reset and without a complete new hour-taking processing of your DLNA-Content on the BS-Moment
El Capitan is working perfectly with Twonky 8.1.2 and the BeoSound Moment
Here is a short manual, how I did the update from Yosemite with Twonky 8.1.2 to El Capitan with Twonky 8.1.2
Before I started I did a complete backup. - I learnt it in the hard way, that Apple can mess up a new OS X too. "Yosemite" is known as Apple´s "VISTA"
- I switched the BS Moment and the NL/ML Converter off.
- stop the Twonky Server 8.1.2 on the mac
- close all Apps
- install El Capitan
- check for new updates in the App-Store (iTunes, Safari...), install them
- after the Installation, everything should be perfect - the Twonky-Server 8.1.2 is fully compatible to El-Capitan.
- when the Twonky-Server has finished the rescan after the last restart, check your content on the Twonky-Server
- everything is fine? Yeah! Switch on the BS Moment and the NL/ML Converter
- now your BS Moment should show your Twonky-content like with yosemite before.
- if your content is missing, check under "devices" (settings/sharing/devices) that your BS Moment is shown and connected to the Twonky-Server
- make sure that you choose the "Bang & Olufsen"-device for your BS Moment and the "mobile" Navigation Tree (settings/sharing/devices)
- do a Pin-reset on the Soundheart and the Jukebox for apr. 15 seconds
- Now you should see your content, without any need for a complete new day-eating processing of your database
Done! Have fun!
Cheers Beroli
Beroli:El Capitan is working perfectly with Twonky 8.1.2 and the BeoSound Moment
Thanks Beroli, I was already showing symptoms of anxiety and panic.
"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
Beroli: - make sure that you choose the "Bang & Olufsen"-device for your BS Moment and the "mobile" Navigation Tree (settings/sharing/devices)
El Capitan is superb, saying that, I found Yosemite to be absolutely fantastic in everyday and rock solid! Even running on an old 5 year old MacBook, it was flawless.
Paul W: I found Yosemite to be absolutely fantastic in everyday and rock solid! Even running on an old 5 year old MacBook, it was flawless.
I found Yosemite to be absolutely fantastic in everyday and rock solid! Even running on an old 5 year old MacBook, it was flawless.
then I am happy for you. A lot of users had trouble with Wifi (because of Applesworld-wide-field-test of their own wifi-standard) mail-, printer-, graphic-issues, endless beachball-issues, some features like Hand-off never worked properly ... . You should be lucky, that you had an older device, some of the troublemakers were deactivated by default. ... But this is a B&O-Forum. i just wanted to "ease" the "never change a running system"-fraction of us. ;-)
Hi
I have just switch to a Moment since 3 weeks. Have anyone found a way to get gapless playback on the Moment?
mhslarsen: Hi I have just switch to a Moment since 3 weeks. Have anyone found a way to get gapless playback on the Moment?
Hi mhslarsen
Moment does not support gapless playback.
El Capitan ? Nice name for a new OSX , but that Capitan isn't my favourite . Upgraded today and lost all my playlists.
And whatever I try, rebuilding the database or looking for forced looking for new content in the DLNA menu, it does not bring back my playlists. I now reduced my playlist to one, no success either.
And as a side effect if you choose forced looking for new content, nothing is happening it looks the button is't working. You also have to push several times the rebuilding database screen button before the Moment actually starts searching.
New software on the Moment, and new software on OSX
(Still running Twonky 8.0.3 on the Mac mini (tried also 8.1.2 with the same effect). Next I pushed back to 7.2.7 & 7.2.8 and this server crashes on the Mac mini every time after about 10 minutes running well, it does with Yosemite also).
EDIT:
Ok, playlists are back, don't ask me how I did it, guess the paperclip does the job But I still stand on that 'forcing for new content' button not working reliable after the latest update. I will report it to Mrs. Ina
Chris:But I still stand on that 'forcing for new content' button not working reliable after the latest update. I will report it to Mrs. Ina "Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
mhslarsen:I have just switch to a Moment since 3 weeks. Have anyone found a way to get gapless playback on the Moment?
Its as Hiort said, the Moment supports no gapless. But I do it this way.
I take an album, per example The Phil Collins Big Band - A Hot Night in Paris, this is a live recording split into 10 music files so you can mount them perfectly again together as one music file.
I use Audacity to combine the files for a Gapless Playback. Here you find a manual http://ca-dreaming.com/Audacity/ how to combine music files with Audacity. When the new gapless file is ready, I enter the necessary ID3 information and album cover to the new file and copy the file together with the other files in the album as number 11. For an easy find of my gapless files I made an m3u playlist on the Moment redirecting to all my Gapless music files.
Its not true Gapless Playback, but it works fine for me this way.
mbolo01:I've always seen this refresh content button behavior, not linked to the update in my opinion
Hi mbolo01
How do you add new content to the Moment, if the button not works?
Chris: El Capitan ? Nice name for a new OSX , but that Capitan isn't my favourite . Upgraded today and lost all my playlists. ... New software on the Moment, and new software on OSX (Still running Twonky 8.0.3 on the Mac mini (tried also 8.1.2 with the same effect). Next I pushed back to 7.2.7 & 7.2.8 and this server crashes on the Mac mini every time after about 10 minutes running well, it does with Yosemite also). EDIT: Ok, playlists are back, don't ask me how I did it, guess the paperclip does the job But I still stand on that 'forcing for new content' button not working reliable after the latest update. I will report it to Mrs. Ina
...
Hi Chris, Hi everyone
I am really sorry to hear about the trouble you faced with El Capitan. I really tested this new combination thoroughly. Here is what I have found out in the past testing sessions.
Sometimes the BS-Moment is not to blame and the Twonky-Server-Library is the reason, why parts of your music or playlists are missing on the BS-Moment. Therefore you should check the music-section over webinterface of the Twonky-Server. Is something missing or wrong? Then you should start a rescan. If this won´t work I would recommend to delete the Twonky-server Library (MacOSXVolume/User/YourUsername). After you start the Twonky-Server, you have to do the whole setup (Serialnumber, paths, devices, switch-off rescan-intervall...) again. Sadly I did it very often and now, because of this training - it takes just some minutes. Wait until the new Library is build-up. Check your content. ---- and rebuild the BS-Moment Database.
You should forget about the 7.2.7/7.2.8/8.0.3-Twonky-Versions. There are a lot of reasons, why they moved on to 8.1.2. Mostly of them were related to issues with yosemite - and since El capitan is (i.m.o.) a improved part of the "yosemite ballpark", the genetics are still mostly the same. In my case the Twonky-Server 8.1.2 is running since 4 days, without any hickups or issues. Maybe tomorrow it´s different, but who knows?
I would really appreciate if B&O would integrate a backup-solution for the internal Moment-Database. This would save days & hours. Additional we should backup the Twonky Server Library too.
-
Today I did the update myself, my first 3 attempt to start the update were not successful. The system software-update showed a very odd 1.3.9.1061-null instead of a real version digits. After using the paperclip on the Soundheart everything went smooth. Most important - the whole content is still there - including all playlists and all covers. The BeomusicApp (old version) worked as it should be. This time I was not in need for a cold shower to cool down.
But I am pretty sure you will fix-it
regarding the new BeoMusic App 2.1
I wished that B&O had improved/fixed the BeoMusic-App instead of adding a support of the Apple Watch.
I still miss the old Landscape-mode. The issue with the playlists is still there and not fixed
Just a reminder:
With the new BeoMusic App 2.0. B&O fixed the issue, that the Playlist-tracks weren´t shown in the app. Now you can choose tracks from the playlist and start/play them. But someone of the B&O-staff forgot to program a line to move to the next track, after the chosen track ended. You can listen to 1 (one!) track of the playlist started from the App - then I have to choose the next track manually. Directly on the BS-Moment you can start/shuffle the (same) playlist and listen to all tracks without any stops after the first track. I reported the bug to BeoCare on the 26/08/2015 and forwarded it to the HQ in Denmark as well
BeoCare tested and confirmed this issue and they wrote me on 02/09/2015 04.03PM
"Regarding the problem with BeoMusic App 2.0 we saw the same problem: When you select a track in the playlist in the app it does not continue with the following songs, it plays one and then leaves the playlist. We reported that to the development department already so they can have a look."
Now - they had their look and this bug is still there.
But heureka - I can use my AppleWatch to lower the volume in a slowly, very, very laggy way ("felt like minutes" by tapping on my watch like an idiot) A task that is perfectly done in seconds with my Beoremote One. Who is setting the priorities in the Software-department?
Chris:Hi mbolo01 How do you add new content to the Moment, if the button not works? "Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."
mbolo01:Sorry for the confusion, I meant that it is not always clear that the button has acknowledged your request to force refresh. Usually I let the Moment doing it's refresh by itself, without forcing
Usually I let the Moment doing it's refresh by itself, without forcing
Hi Mbolo01
I formulated my question wrong. I meant how do you add new content to the Moment if you want an immediate listen to it.
Normally if you want a immediate listen to that new content, you have to use the 'force content button' in the menu. After a push on it, it says look at the 'about' menu. But there is no change to see on the 'about' menu. Next I push the button about ten times, no change at all and the new album its also nowhere to find in the Moments database. It only works and shows in the database if you push te button asking a renewal of the database.
Thats why I mentioned the button does not work. You can off course wait till the next day, but that's not the meaning of this button. it is specifically positioned in the menu so that you'r able to have an immediate listen.
Hi Chris,
I totally agree with you. I see the "force content button" just as a placebo. The only function of this button seems to be: activate the "about"-message.
Because of this, I don't add any new content to my database anymore. I use Deezer only, to add new content. But I am not happy too.
Another Bug that needs some attention.😶👏
Beroli: Hi Chris, I totally agree with you. I see the "force content button" just as a placebo. The only function of this button seems to be: activate the "about"-message. Because of this, I don't add any new content to my database anymore. I use Deezer only, to add new content. But I am not happy too. Another Bug that needs some attention.😶👏
Hi Beroli
Thank you for the reply, I remember that button has once worked when I first bought the Moment. It seems to been lost after all the updates...
Software updates... Good to solve bugs and create new ones...
Now a short update on what I have tried yesterday and this morning:
- Installed El Capitan on the I7 mini and updated Twonky from 8.0.3 to 8.1.2. > Outcome: not working with the Moment, database is not loading at all.
- Downgraded Twonky to version 7.2.7 and 7.2.8 > Database is not loading very well, it looks like their are some album notification appearing on the screen but suddenly Twonky on the Mini crashes.
- Using Twonky 7.2.8 on my home server (Windows Server 2008) resulted in a fast an total database on the Moment. My guess is that owners of the Beomaster (Windows XP) are very satisfied an frown their eyebrowns on our problems.
- Made a new home profile on the I7 now (NIC) and installed Twonky 8.0.3 again. to bypass the old networks card profile. It now loads as it should be on the Moment, not as fast as on the Windows server but it works very well.
My thought: The problem in my setup is the Mini I7, it should have something to do with the sleep function or display connected to it, it looks Twonky 7... & 8.1.2 is reacting to it. Off course all sleep functions are set to no use, and its set to wake up on any network activity. I tried all setups also with wireless only on the Mini without a good result. Strange...
I'm using the V1 as a monitor. I will look to change thing and setup the Mini as a headless server without display.
But for now its working and I leave it, untill the next update...